GT: Pacers @ Nets, 730pm ET 10/30/19

[Stone]

BRING ME THE HEAD OF SEAN MARKS !!!.....Sorry, I couldn't resist.......

Come on, we've all been down this road before....it takes a good 20 to 25 games to get a decent gauge. I personally would leave things the way they are until at least after we get back from the upcoming road trip.

We have a lot to be thankful for.

[therealbig3]

Obviously Kyrie is the least of our worries, but let’s not act like the guy is perfect and didn’t also have his issues in a loss like yesterday.

I’d hate to go down the Deron Williams route with him, where since he’s by far the best player on the team, we give him a pass for everything. That went on for years before we finally started seeing the truth with Deron.

Everyone is capable of being criticized. LeBron James had things to be criticized for even when he was at his peak and winning titles.

It's been 4 (FOUR) games. He's exceeded most, if not all expectations on offense so far and he's been about what we expected on the defensive end. LeBron as a perennial MVP candidate had things to be criticized because his teams were expected to win the title, or at the very least take the easy East each season. Kyrie doesn't have an active Wade, Bosh, another Kyrie, Kevin Love, or now am Anthony Davis. Kyrie is not even supposed to be the LeBron of this team. A lot of that will be on the guy recovering on the bench we won't see play until next season.

I mean if you read my posts, I'm really not that critical of Irving. I actually LOVE how he's played so far, and he's been proving me wrong. I was not an Irving fan before this year. But he's been playing like a top 10 player so far. He's been a beast.

But I guess I don't want it to be a situation where we can't admit when Kyrie could be better. Like, when he takes bad shots or commits bad turnovers or is being a turnstile on defense...we're allowed to comment on that right? Or just because Levert and Dinwiddie and whoever else are ALSO playing that way, and they're just not as good as Irving, we let it go for Irving but shine a spotlight on Dinwiddie and Levert? I get that stars have historically always gotten a pass for things that role players would get killed for, but the reason I brought up Deron Williams was because if you look back at the 2012 and 2013 seasons...it's kind of gross how many passes and excuses we made for him while nitpicking the hell out of everyone else, just because he was our best player and we had pinned all our hopes on him at that time and I guess couldn't afford to admit that he wasn't playing well. And I'm guiltier of doing that than anyone else at the time. I was constantly coming to his defense here and on the PC board and on the GB.

My point with bringing up LeBron is that even the best player in the world isn't perfect and has flaws. Michael freaking Jordan had flaws. If they can be nitpicked, then ANYONE can be nitpicked.

And overall, I don't even think I've laid into Irving AT ALL. I've been hugely positive towards him imo. I don't think pointing out things that he doesn't do well (like defense), while saying that overall he's our best player, is playing great, and is the least of our worries, should even count as criticism. It's just stating facts.

[Rich Rane]

Obviously Kyrie is the least of our worries, but let’s not act like the guy is perfect and didn’t also have his issues in a loss like yesterday.

I’d hate to go down the Deron Williams route with him, where since he’s by far the best player on the team, we give him a pass for everything. That went on for years before we finally started seeing the truth with Deron.

Everyone is capable of being criticized. LeBron James had things to be criticized for even when he was at his peak and winning titles.

It's been 4 (FOUR) games. He's exceeded most, if not all expectations on offense so far and he's been about what we expected on the defensive end. LeBron as a perennial MVP candidate had things to be criticized because his teams were expected to win the title, or at the very least take the easy East each season. Kyrie doesn't have an active Wade, Bosh, another Kyrie, Kevin Love, or now am Anthony Davis. Kyrie is not even supposed to be the LeBron of this team. A lot of that will be on the guy recovering on the bench we won't see play until next season.

I mean if you read my posts, I'm really not that critical of Irving. I actually LOVE how he's played so far, and he's been proving me wrong. I was not an Irving fan before this year. But he's been playing like a top 10 player so far. He's been a beast.

But I guess I don't want it to be a situation where we can't admit when Kyrie could be better. Like, when he takes bad shots or commits bad turnovers or is being a turnstile on defense...we're allowed to comment on that right? Or just because Levert and Dinwiddie and whoever else are ALSO playing that way, and they're just not as good as Irving, we let it go for Irving but shine a spotlight on Dinwiddie and Levert? I get that stars have historically always gotten a pass for things that role players would get killed for, but the reason I brought up Deron Williams was because if you look back at the 2012 and 2013 seasons...it's kind of gross how many passes and excuses we made for him while nitpicking the hell out of everyone else, just because he was our best player and we had pinned all our hopes on him at that time and I guess couldn't afford to admit that he wasn't playing well. And I'm guiltier of doing that than anyone else at the time. I was constantly coming to his defense here and on the PC board and on the GB.

My point with bringing up LeBron is that even the best player in the world isn't perfect and has flaws. Michael freaking Jordan had flaws. If they can be nitpicked, then ANYONE can be nitpicked.

And overall, I don't even think I've laid into Irving AT ALL. I've been hugely positive towards him imo. I don't think pointing out things that he doesn't do well (like defense), while saying that overall he's our best player, is playing great, and is the least of our worries, should even count as criticism. It's just stating facts.

I just think Kyrie deserves some time. Deron, for all of his criticism later on, was also given a chance. Deron was traded to a Nets team that went 12-70 the season before. The dam finally broke for him among Nets fans when he wasn't playing as hard as he could and horrible playoff showings. When it's little things like a bad turnover or a shot he shouldn't have taken or an extra pass he should've made, I encourage anyone to post that in the flow of a game thread. If Kyrie begins to not hustle (like takes several games off even when he logs in minutes) or doesn't take the playoffs seriously, yeah open the floodgates. For now though, these first 4 games, it's really nitpicking to say he deserves a good chunk of blame for the team's poor start (not saying you yourself explicitly said that).

[gigantes]

BRING ME THE HEAD OF SEAN MARKS !!!.....Sorry, I couldn't resist.......

Come on, we've all been down this road before....it takes a good 20 to 25 games to get a decent gauge. I personally would leave things the way they are until at least after we get back from the upcoming road trip.

We have a lot to be thankful for.

Haha, but one thing that might be worth remembering is that this still isn't a team with the talent depth that others enjoy. Markinson have done all they can, but it's basically a team of overachievers that has to play hard and play with minimal mistakes in order to contend for the playoffs, or the East.

Somehow I think that got a little bit lost amongst Nets fans in the glory of this Summer's signings.

Kyrie aside, and going back to last season, this is still a group that can look nice & respectable when everything's working right, and look pretty bad during other stretches.

[Papi_swav]

Kenny needs to bench guys that are not putting in an effort on defense, I'm kind of seeing what Boston fans were talking about. Kyrie doesn't give us anything on defense and Din use to be good on D, what the heck happened? He should bench these guys when they are lacking effort and put Nwaba in.

Dinwiddie was the worst defender on the team last season.

Yea and he should be benched for ti sometimes. His first season he was pretty solid here but then he his offense came around and he feels like he doesn't have to put that effort in on defense.

[ecuhus1981]

But I guess I don't want it to be a situation where we can't admit when Kyrie could be better. Like, when he takes bad shots or commits bad turnovers or is being a turnstile on defense...we're allowed to comment on that right?

I mean, WHEN IT HAPPENS, sure, go nuts. I don't know why you're hung up about it, when it's literally not even a thing at this point.

Kyrie takes bad shots? He's averaging 35ppg on 47%FG, 40%3PT and 91%FT. Some attempts are ill-advised, but even those go in an acceptable clip.

He commits bad turnovers? They may look bad, they may swing momentum, but he's sporting a 3.5/1 AST:TO ratio through 4 games. My dude, you really can't say he's a turnover machine. No, that title is reserved for everyone else on the roster...

TuRnStIlE oN dEfEnSe? What game are you watching??? Kyrie has not been a perfect defender, he's lacked hustle on some perimeter closeouts. But we live in a relative world. He's literally been the 2nd-best defender on the team thus far, and that's sad because he hasn't lit the world on fire on that side of the court.

Irving is no sacred cow on the offensive or defensive end. And you want to lay into your stars, so that the rest of team understands that if Coach even yells at KI for defensive lapses, I better not have any. As I say, everything is relative, it would border on absurd for Kenny to rip Kyrie when he's actually one of our best and should be held up as a standard right now. I never thought I'd say that about Kyrie's defense, but here we are.

I don't know if you're a parent. It's sometimes a good life lesson for younger siblings, when you can chastise your oldest child for poor grades, not doing chores etc. But you look insane for chewing out child #1 for getting a B, when the younger kids are bringing home D's and F's!

[MrDollarBills]

Kyrie Irving is averaging 35ppg 6rpg 6apg on 47/40/91. A 37PER rating, 62% TS. 1.8 turnovers.

He is playing elite level basketball. He is NOT the problem.

Caris LeVert played like ****. Spencer played like ****. Prince played like ****. The bigs had Sabonis out there looking like his FATHER FFS and dudes are on here talking about Kyrie???

Kyrie is the only Net to show up in every game so far!!!

Stop the knee jerking and stop looking for a whipping boy. It's been 4 **** ing games everyone calm their asses down and let the team work their way into form.

[gigantes]

I think it's mainly the people in that GB thread who are the ones really bad-mouthing Kyrie.

All they have is their musty old narrative, and I don't think they've paid the slightest attention to how Kyrie's actually doing with the Nets. He's in fact leading the league in PER, and the rest of the team has been about average or worse... like, much worse.

[MrDollarBills]

I think it's mainly the people in that GB thread who are the ones really bad-mouthing Kyrie.

All they have is their musty old narrative, and I don't think they've paid the slightest attention to how Kyrie's actually doing with the Nets. He's in fact leading the league in PER, and the rest of the team has been about average or worse... like, much worse.

I'm kind of glad I got banned from the GB, I would probably have been kicked off this site. I don't even bother to read that noise.

Irving is playing at a level that is worth the price of admission. Every game he puts on a show. But his teammates are letting him down and it's frustrating. Guys need to start playing like how we saw them play last year: hungry and assertive. Spencer, LeVert, Allen, Harris, Prince, and Jordan all need to get it in gear because they are the ones that have to help carry the load. we need the guards to score and not turn the ball over, we need the forwards to knock down their threes, and the bigs need to start playing tougher. Those six guys need to shape up, and quickly.