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***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread***

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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#21 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:34 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Zach Lowe on Deandre Jordan:

What does DeAndre Jordan do here, exactly?

Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant coercing the Nets into signing Jordan to a four-year, $40 million deal was an underrated free-agency side plot. Opponents have outscored the Nets by 13.4 points per 100 possessions with Jordan on the floor, per NBA.com. That number flips to almost its photo negative -- plus-12 -- when Jarrett Allen replaces him.

As Dallas and New York witnessed last season, Jordan just doesn't do anything on defense beyond being large and near the basket. He's basically a boulder with arms. That has value! He munches rebounds. The Nets give up fewer shots at the rim with Jordan on the floor. That has been the case with every Jordan team since his rookie season. Some players see a tall person and stop in their tracks.

The ones who keep going? They're shooting 12 percentage points higher on shots within the restricted area against Brooklyn with Jordan on the floor, per Cleaning The Glass. He's challenging only 3.3 such shots per game, even fewer than Jokic. He's a solid post defender, but the few good post-up centers left aren't afraid of him; Domantas Sabonis punked Jordan for a dunk on the first Pacers possession of their win in Brooklyn last week, and ate Jordan's lunch the rest of the game.

If the Nets had a basketball justification for signing Jordan, it was to defend bangers who overpower Allen. If he can't do that, how much value does he have?

Jordan doesn't catch as many lobs as he used to. He's even off to an icy start at the line after remaking himself into a decent foul shooter.

Brooklyn needs much more from its other free-agent acquisition.


I think DJ still is a rotation piece just based on his size alone but Claxton has made it clear that he warrants minutes. I think match ups will decide our rotation at center going forward.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#22 » by gigantes » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:45 pm

Some contracts

Ed Davis - 2 years, $5mil per.
Dudley - 1 year, $2.5mil per.
RHJ - 1 year, 2.5mil per.

...add up almost exactly to Jordan's current salary. Plus, there's all the extra flexibility of those being short deals compared to his long one.

I don't know if it would have been possible under the rules or even in terms of the roster configuration, but man... what a bad swap out that was in terms of personnel. :/
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#23 » by GTR11 » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:25 pm

We not even ten games into this season

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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#24 » by kamaze » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:28 pm

gigantes wrote:Some contracts

Ed Davis - 2 years, $5mil per.
Dudley - 1 year, $2.5mil per.
RHJ - 1 year, 2.5mil per.

...add up almost exactly to Jordan's current salary. Plus, there's all the extra flexibility of those being short deals compared to his long one.

I don't know if it would have been possible under the rules or even in terms of the roster configuration, but man... what a bad swap out that was in terms of personnel. :/


Irving, Durant and DJ wanted to play together one of them even took less money so he could be signed. I think Kyrie would've came anyway probably Durant too.
He's helped as far as being vocal on defense Jarret Allen's rebounding and overall game have gotten better with him here. He even helped Claxton giving him words of encouragement last game.
DJ's been a good addition.
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#25 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:55 pm

gigantes wrote:Some contracts

Ed Davis - 2 years, $5mil per.
Dudley - 1 year, $2.5mil per.
RHJ - 1 year, 2.5mil per.

...add up almost exactly to Jordan's current salary. Plus, there's all the extra flexibility of those being short deals compared to his long one.

I don't know if it would have been possible under the rules or even in terms of the roster configuration, but man... what a bad swap out that was in terms of personnel. :/


No it wasn't. Irving and Durant want him here and we do need a center that isn't under 240 lbs. He's been bad but I would rather him him here to support Allen than not
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#26 » by gigantes » Sat Nov 9, 2019 10:09 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:Some contracts

Ed Davis - 2 years, $5mil per.
Dudley - 1 year, $2.5mil per.
RHJ - 1 year, 2.5mil per.

...add up almost exactly to Jordan's current salary. Plus, there's all the extra flexibility of those being short deals compared to his long one.

I don't know if it would have been possible under the rules or even in terms of the roster configuration, but man... what a bad swap out that was in terms of personnel. :/


No it wasn't. Irving and Durant want him here and we do need a center that isn't under 240 lbs. He's been bad but I would rather him him here to support Allen than not

I thought this thread was supposed to be about stats/metrics/analytics/tape, not just personal opinion. We just saw a fairly long piece detailing how awful DJ has been. I tried to add some simple numbers to suggest a possible alternative to what we wound up getting.

I don't know what else to tell you at this point.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#27 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:04 am

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:Some contracts

Ed Davis - 2 years, $5mil per.
Dudley - 1 year, $2.5mil per.
RHJ - 1 year, 2.5mil per.

...add up almost exactly to Jordan's current salary. Plus, there's all the extra flexibility of those being short deals compared to his long one.

I don't know if it would have been possible under the rules or even in terms of the roster configuration, but man... what a bad swap out that was in terms of personnel. :/


No it wasn't. Irving and Durant want him here and we do need a center that isn't under 240 lbs. He's been bad but I would rather him him here to support Allen than not

I thought this thread was supposed to be about stats/metrics/analytics/tape, not just personal opinion. We just saw a fairly long piece detailing how awful DJ has been. I tried to add some simple numbers to suggest a possible alternative to what we wound up getting.

I don't know what else to tell you at this point.


I think Jordan's defense has been poor, but he's been pretty good on the glass. Offensively it's been a mess because of the poor FTs and the crazy lob attempts. I'm not disputing that the dude has been bad but I'm just being honest, if I had to choose between retaining the players you mentioned and signing Jordan as an extra for Durant and Irving I'm signing Jordan and not thinking twice about it.

Also, Ed Davis has a broken leg, and neither Rondae or Dudley are getting minutes on the Raptors and Lakers. They both are probably going to be out of the league next year. Jordan won't be.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#28 » by gigantes » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:36 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
No it wasn't. Irving and Durant want him here and we do need a center that isn't under 240 lbs. He's been bad but I would rather him him here to support Allen than not

I thought this thread was supposed to be about stats/metrics/analytics/tape, not just personal opinion. We just saw a fairly long piece detailing how awful DJ has been. I tried to add some simple numbers to suggest a possible alternative to what we wound up getting.

I don't know what else to tell you at this point.


I think Jordan's defense has been poor, but he's been pretty good on the glass. Offensively it's been a mess because of the poor FTs and the crazy lob attempts. I'm not disputing that the dude has been bad but I'm just being honest, if I had to choose between retaining the players you mentioned and signing Jordan as an extra for Durant and Irving I'm signing Jordan and not thinking twice about it.

Also, Ed Davis has a broken leg, and neither Rondae or Dudley are getting minutes on the Raptors and Lakers. They both are probably going to be out of the league next year. Jordan won't be.

And therein lies Jon Stewart's magical "F-ckface Von Clownstick" silliest goose upon reality.

The idea that we shouldn't have made a deal because a future reality involved someone getting injured in retrospect... I don't even know how to respond to that level of comment.

Now if the Superfriends truly did demand the DJ signing as a requisite, then that's fine. That's one thing. I get that. But in terms of metrics & reality...?

Holy hell.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#29 » by Rich Rane » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:22 am

gigantes wrote:Now if the Superfriends truly did demand the DJ signing as a requisite, then that's fine. That's one thing.


It's a huge one thing though. KD and Kyrie did take less to get DJ here, which is hard to ignore even in an analytics thread.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#30 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:10 pm

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:I thought this thread was supposed to be about stats/metrics/analytics/tape, not just personal opinion. We just saw a fairly long piece detailing how awful DJ has been. I tried to add some simple numbers to suggest a possible alternative to what we wound up getting.

I don't know what else to tell you at this point.


I think Jordan's defense has been poor, but he's been pretty good on the glass. Offensively it's been a mess because of the poor FTs and the crazy lob attempts. I'm not disputing that the dude has been bad but I'm just being honest, if I had to choose between retaining the players you mentioned and signing Jordan as an extra for Durant and Irving I'm signing Jordan and not thinking twice about it.

Also, Ed Davis has a broken leg, and neither Rondae or Dudley are getting minutes on the Raptors and Lakers. They both are probably going to be out of the league next year. Jordan won't be.

And therein lies Jon Stewart's magical "F-ckface Von Clownstick" silliest goose upon reality.

The idea that we shouldn't have made a deal because a future reality involved someone getting injured in retrospect... I don't even know how to respond to that level of comment.

Now if the Superfriends truly did demand the DJ signing as a requisite, then that's fine. That's one thing. I get that. But in terms of metrics & reality...?

Holy hell.


In terms of metrics outside of Jordan helping to make the Nets one of the top rebounding teams in the league, he hasn't yielded much else.

I was just pointing out how those three players were doing, not disrespecting Ed Davis.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#31 » by Paradise » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:10 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I think Jordan's defense has been poor, but he's been pretty good on the glass. Offensively it's been a mess because of the poor FTs and the crazy lob attempts. I'm not disputing that the dude has been bad but I'm just being honest, if I had to choose between retaining the players you mentioned and signing Jordan as an extra for Durant and Irving I'm signing Jordan and not thinking twice about it.

Also, Ed Davis has a broken leg, and neither Rondae or Dudley are getting minutes on the Raptors and Lakers. They both are probably going to be out of the league next year. Jordan won't be.

And therein lies Jon Stewart's magical "F-ckface Von Clownstick" silliest goose upon reality.

The idea that we shouldn't have made a deal because a future reality involved someone getting injured in retrospect... I don't even know how to respond to that level of comment.

Now if the Superfriends truly did demand the DJ signing as a requisite, then that's fine. That's one thing. I get that. But in terms of metrics & reality...?

Holy hell.


In terms of metrics outside of Jordan helping to make the Nets one of the top rebounding teams in the league, he hasn't yielded much else.

I was just pointing out how those three players were doing, not disrespecting Ed Davis.

This is a prime example why DJ is here and I don’t care how much he makes if he continues doing stuff like this.

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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#32 » by gigantes » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:29 pm

Sorry for getting a little heated, up above. I'm just gonna have to disagree with you all about whether Jordan was an on-court improvement over Davis, RHJ and Dudley. At least, so far.

That said, I'm indeed happy about Jordan's rebounding, and pleased to see team rebounds have improved over last season.

2018-19 : 46 TR/g, 11 OR/g
2019-20 : 50 TR/g, 12.25 OR/g

Not sure if there's a more convenient page to compare team stats across years, but I used these and just did some simple math:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2019.html#
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2020.html#
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#33 » by GTR11 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:32 am

Read on Twitter
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Was looking for Joe's on and off the court stats and ran into this post. My eye test deceiving me. I thought Joe had best defensive impact.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#34 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:44 pm

GTR11 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Was looking for Joe's on and off the court stats and ran into this post. My eye test deceiving me. I thought Joe had best defensive impact.


I thought I had posted this already in here and I posted it in the wrong thread.

I think it matches up the eye test for me. He's managed to hold his own for the most part in his match ups.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#35 » by ecuhus1981 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:49 pm

^
Yes, in one-on-one situations, Taurean has stepped up his defensive effort big-time. He is much lower in overall defensive rating, which means that his team defense is lagging. But I'm glad for him, he's one of our better guys on both ends.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#36 » by SpeedyG » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:54 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:^
Yes, in one-on-one situations, Taurean has stepped up his defensive effort big-time. He is much lower in overall defensive rating, which means that his team defense is lagging. But I'm glad for him, he's one of our better guys on both ends.
He is fine as a 1 on 1 keep someone in front of you type defense. But his awareness needs work. Several times he's been beaten off back cuts because he's ball watching too much. Same with rotation.

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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#37 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:19 pm

SpeedyG wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:^
Yes, in one-on-one situations, Taurean has stepped up his defensive effort big-time. He is much lower in overall defensive rating, which means that his team defense is lagging. But I'm glad for him, he's one of our better guys on both ends.
He is fine as a 1 on 1 keep someone in front of you type defense. But his awareness needs work. Several times he's been beaten off back cuts because he's ball watching too much. Same with rotation.

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Phoenix destroyed us off of those backdoor cuts.
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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#38 » by SpeedyG » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:50 pm

Quick stats off NBA.com

Wins - 57.4% FGM assisted, 42.6% unassisted

Losses - 52.9%, 47.1%

In our wins, our assisted in the 3rd quarter is 69%, with only 31% unassisted. In the losses in the 3rd quarter, assisted is 52.2 and unassisted is 47.8

We double down on this in the 4th of our losses, as the assisted FGM it further goes down to 50% and unassisted goes up to 50%.

Interestingly enough (though not really because even our wins have been close)

Of our wins -

1st quarters: 54.8, 45.2
2nd: 58, 42
3rd: 68, 31
4th: 45.7, 54.3

I think this supports the eye test: when the going gets tough for this team, the ball sticks.

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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#39 » by SpeedyG » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:09 pm

More from NBA.com

Nets are bottom 4 in passes made (ahead of Rockets, Blazers, Kings). Our assists are average ish pack at 23.1 Even our secondary assists is 11th. So when we do move the ball, it's fine.

We just don't do it enough.

Other passing stats of note:

Kyrie has received 65.2 passes, and passed the ball 49.6

Spencer has received 42.1, passed 28.5.

Caris 36.1, 24.6

Rest of roster is more balanced.



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Re: ***Nets 19-20 Season Stats/Metrics/Analytics/Tape Thread*** 

Post#40 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:26 pm

SpeedyG wrote:Quick stats off NBA.com

Wins - 57.4% FGM assisted, 42.6% unassisted

Losses - 52.9%, 47.1%

In our wins, our assisted in the 3rd quarter is 69%, with only 31% unassisted. In the losses in the 3rd quarter, assisted is 52.2 and unassisted is 47.8

We double down on this in the 4th of our losses, as the assisted FGM it further goes down to 50% and unassisted goes up to 50%.

Interestingly enough (though not really because even our wins have been close)

Of our wins -

1st quarters: 54.8, 45.2
2nd: 58, 42
3rd: 68, 31
4th: 45.7, 54.3

I think this supports the eye test: when the going gets tough for this team, the ball sticks.

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And that's not good. Guys need to move the ball. The flow of the offense was fine in the first 2 quarters after that it all went downhil.
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