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If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) bet 

Post#481 » by 8David24 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:22 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Kyrie is lost man.

He really thinks hes taking a stand by not getting shot. Hes convinced he some Muhammad Ali type figure.

Its sad. He has no trade value right now at all. Every team bets on bet365 slovenija hes nut.

I think just let this play out. If he comes back then he can play. Otherwise just go at it with the team we have.

This is still the best team in the East without Kyrie. I believe that easily.


Kyrie is lost = stupid man :crazy: ... trade him and Nets can still win a chip..
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#482 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:31 am

Rich Rane wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:Kyrie has changed a lot since Duke. I’m sure there are many things he believed then that he no longer subscribes to.


I'm sure plenty have a decade on after college. But there's learning and going down internet rabbit holes, something Kyrie's fallen victim to before with flat earthing.

Make no mistake, I fully support most if not all of Kyrie's decisions on and off the court up until this. I have no doubt in my mind Kyrie has a good heart as we've seen all his charity, but I really do think he's hiding an anti-vax stance here behind being anti-mandate. If that's really the case, I honestly can't support that, this coming from someone that's lost family and friends to this pandemic.


100%.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#483 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:58 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:I wasn’t trying to critique you or asking you to do more research lol. I’ve seen those reports/tweets as well. I just wanted to know if you had any other information that corroborates those reports.



If I remember correctly he never said he was a Muslim but he was partaking in Ramadan. Which is perfectly fine.

I had no issues with stuff like that. I thought it was pretty cool. But, it is this stance that he has taken, now during his final days as a Net, is the final straw for me. Forget about basketball. The vaccinated rate of Black men and women ages 18-44 in New York City is frighteningly low. Him coming out through Shams with this nonsense isn't going to help, in fact it is going to embolden people to not get vaccinated. A lot of people will die as we head into the holiday season where spread is inevitable.

Kyrie is a contrarian that stands for nothing. All that talk about Empowerment and Black and Indigenous upliftment, and he goes right ahead to become the face of an antivax movement in the face of a virus that has done irreparable harm to our communities.

I hear you and mostly agree with your critiques.

The only thing that holds me back from going completely against him is that he does have a very public track record of him doing great things for our communities. And yet even for those things, he doesn’t talk about them himself; other people report what he does.

This is why I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that while I do think he has contrarian tendencies, I am guessing (based on my limited knowledge of his actual thoughts) that it is more often due to ignorance than actual ill-intent.

I don’t know who, if anyone, is advising Kyrie but he desperately needs a wise, trusted confidant who can give him perspective and honest criticism. He’s not only sabotaging future earnings, more importantly he’s tarnishing his public persona and legacy to the point of it being irreparable. You know…considering how close he was with Kobe, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kobe was that guy for him.

Regardless, he or someone else close to him needs to speak some sense into him to realize the damage he’s doing to himself as well as the youth black, indigenous,and other minority communities who are swayed by popularity and elementary-level analysis. Being caricatured and weaponized by Ted Cruz and Donald Trump Jr for political points is the last thing any strong, independent, black male with a voice should condone, even if (God forbid) he was anti-vax. He needed to lead with action months ago. For this type of issue, silence is compliance.

Isn’t it ironic that a lot of the retired old head stars like Kareem, MJ, Charles Barkley are the ones declaring how important it is to get vaccinated while so many of the current players are silent.


I've always given props to Kyrie for doing great things and never speaking on it.

But this is where I hop off the ride. What he's doing is dangerous, reckless and abhorrent. People have died, are dying, and will die. And like all antivaxxers, he doesn't give a goddamn. He doesn't even have the awareness to see how bad faith actors (who are all vaccinated btw) are now using him to push their antivax agenda. Ted Cruz and Trump Jr. represent everything that Kyrie stood against and yet when push comes to shove, he chooses to become their posterboy in their efforts to politicize a public health crisis. He's fallen down the rabbit hole head first.

This ain't about basketball anymore to me.

Kareem was right. Everything that he said about this is on the nose. And the irony is not lost on me that Chuck and Mike are on the right side of this, but they are flawed men like all of us, and yet can still understand that personal responsibility to protect the people around you goes beyond horse sh*t like the personal choice to endanger the health of your fellow man.

And honestly, the attention is put on the guys who are saying nothing when it should be put on guys who have said something. Like Giannis, who when asked why he got vaccinated, said to protect his loved ones. Or Karl Anthony Towns, who lost more than anyone who can imagine. I can't fathom how he feels seeing Kyrie, a fellow New Jersey basketball star and probably someone KAT looked up to, taking this course of action.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#484 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:02 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
Rich Rane wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:Kyrie has changed a lot since Duke. I’m sure there are many things he believed then that he no longer subscribes to.


I'm sure plenty have a decade on after college. But there's learning and going down internet rabbit holes, something Kyrie's fallen victim to before with flat earthing.

Make no mistake, I fully support most if not all of Kyrie's decisions on and off the court up until this. I have no doubt in my mind Kyrie has a good heart as we've seen all his charity, but I really do think he's hiding an anti-vax stance here behind being anti-mandate. If that's really the case, I honestly can't support that, this coming from someone that's lost family and friends to this pandemic.

Yeah, my heart wants to believe he’s not anti-vax but my head says he’s had all of this time to get vaccinated and have his any questions answered by many of the world’s elite scientists and physicians. He’s privileged beyond belief when it comes to access to resources, and yet we’re encroaching upon the start of the regular season and he’s only now supposedly stating that he’s not anti-vax but just merely anti-mandate? A lot of things don’t add up.

I just hope that if he was or even still is anti-vax that he gets answers to all of his questions and his fears and concerns are allayed. Everyday this drags on, the more attention this draws and the more people this affects. Kyrie still has the potential to do more good than any other active NBA player by loudly and proudly advising people to get vaccinated and by connecting people who are confused or still have questions to the specialists he has access to in the medical field. AFAIK, most NBA players (except those like KAT who suffered through COVID) haven’t actually come out and vocalized support for vaccination.

And yeah, this pandemic has even had knock on effects for those who never got the virus. My dad lost his job due to the pandemic and passed away last August. I’m of the belief that had the pandemic not happened, he’d either still be here or would at least lived longer. The longer this goes on, the more destruction it wreaks on all aspects of society, but especially for those who have suffered and died from the actual disease.

My condolences to you, Rich.


I'm sorry for your loss, brother. And to Rich as well, and anyone else in our Nets forum family that has suffered.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#485 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:19 am

GTR11 wrote:Whatever it means.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20


So he's doubling down.

Whatever man. Now he wants to play the victim/martyr. I'm not going to watch his rant or anything. I hope he will be safe, and the people around him will be as well. He is absolutely gone off the deep end and doesn't understand what he is doing and who he is hurting. Forget basketball. We have a serious issue in the Black community where millennials and Gen Zers are scared to get vaccinated and he is giving them all reassurance that they shouldn't get vaccinated at the risk of their own lives and their families.

I can't condone it. My number one reason for getting vaccinated wasn't even for myself. My parents are in a vulnerable age bracket, my sister was born with breathing issues. If I ever got sick and infected them, and they would have died, I would never be able to live with myself.

He's not doing anything on behalf of the people who lost jobs because they have the risk assessment skills of a toddler. Those people don't need a champion, they need a wake up call. And so does he.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#486 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:29 am

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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#487 » by NyCeEvO » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:00 am

MrDollarBills wrote:He's not doing anything on behalf of the people who lost jobs because they have the risk assessment skills of a toddler. Those people don't need a champion, they need a wake up call. And so does he.

That’s the other thing too. How does him not getting vaccinated do anything for people for the people who are being fired for not getting vaccinated?

If Shams report is correct in that he wants to be “a voice for the voiceless”, he’s not even using his voice! He’s largely hiding behind social media and not actually saying anything.

At the very least, he should have at least talked to legislators and politicians about his concern that people are losing employment due to mandates. It would at least be evidence that he’s actually doing the work to advocate on behalf of those he’s concerned about. It looks like he hasn’t even done that.

And to be fully honest, the only people who are truly voiceless are those who are sadly no longer with us due to this pandemic. While it’s never a good thing to be fired, if you are unwilling to comply with the rules and regulations of your employer, you are violating the terms of service and bringing your termination upon yourself.

He clearly hasn’t thought this through. Or if he thinks that he has thought this through and believes this is the right way to go about it…oh boy.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#488 » by NyCeEvO » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:09 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Read on Twitter

This is what happens when ignorant people advise other ignorant people. Smh…

You know…I’m really proud of JR Smith. A lot of people liked him because he came across as a “lovable idiot”. And yet despite having more money than just about normal career can give you by attending college, he wanted to become educated. He has re-enrolled in school, openly talks about his grades and performance in classes, and publicly advocates getting educated.

Kyrie is so far from being the leader who he thinks he is, it’s laughable.

I just find this whole situation sad, because for someone who has access to so much, it’s clear that he’s either receiving very poor advice or he’s just advising himself. What a shame…
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#489 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:22 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:He's not doing anything on behalf of the people who lost jobs because they have the risk assessment skills of a toddler. Those people don't need a champion, they need a wake up call. And so does he.

That’s the other thing too. How does him not getting vaccinated do anything for people for the people who are being fired for not getting vaccinated?

If Shams report is correct in that he wants to be “a voice for the voiceless”, he’s not even using his voice! He’s largely hiding behind social media and not actually saying anything.

At the very least, he should have at least talked to legislators and politicians about his concern that people are losing employment due to mandates. It would at least be evidence that he’s actually doing the work to advocate on behalf of those he’s concerned about. It looks like he hasn’t even done that.

And to be fully honest, the only people who are truly voiceless are those who are sadly no longer with us due to this pandemic. While it’s never a good thing to be fired, if you are unwilling to comply with the rules and regulations of your employer, you are violating the terms of service and bringing your termination upon yourself.

He clearly hasn’t thought this through. Or if he thinks that he has and that this is the right way to go about it…oh boy.


Well said. Jobs can be replaced. 700,000 lives and counting cannot be.

And honestly, if you don't have a medical reason for not being vaccinated, it's hard to feel sympathy for the few people who have lost their jobs due to their own choice to not comply with their employers health policy that is in place to keep workers safe.

He hasn't thought this through at all. But I believe that he's also hiding behind this agenda because he is indeed antivax and is too scared to admit it in public. And I'm honestly glad about that part, because the damage he is doing would be even worse if he went down Bradley Beal's path of outright ignorance.

He says it's about what's best for him. I think that says it all. It's attitudes like his that will keep this country at a 50% vaccinated rate and the pandemic will continue. Meanwhile, places in Western Europe with 70% and up rates are getting back to normal.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#490 » by NyCeEvO » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:55 pm

8David24 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Kyrie is lost man.

He really thinks hes taking a stand by not getting shot. Hes convinced he some Muhammad Ali type figure.

Its sad. He has no trade value right now at all. Every team thinks hes nut.

I think just let this play out. If he comes back then he can play. Otherwise just go at it with the team we have.

This is still the best team in the East without Kyrie. I believe that easily.


Kyrie is lost = stupid man :crazy: ... trade him and Nets can still win a chip..

He has no trade value, because he’s not trustworthy. Availability is the #1 responsibility for any job and you are always left wondering “Will he be here tomorrow?” That’s unhealthy for any organization to deal with. The best the Nets can hope for is that he wises up and gets vaccinated, so he can actually be an active member of the team.

It’s not like he’s currently unavailable due to injury. (Unlike most people, NBA players have infinite sick leave, so they can get paid their full salary despite being unavailable.) Kyrie is unavailable because he actively chooses to not play for myriad reasons. Until this point, I had almost no issues with his prior absences. Mental health is very important and people should do whatever they want (within the bounds of what is ethical) to deal with it.

But his entire course of action here is nonsensical. It’s obvious that he never had any plans of getting vaccinated, given how late into the preseason all of this has come about. He thought he would have an exemption and when it didn’t happen, he didn’t know what to do. He had no Plan B, and now is seemingly scrambling and throwing anything and everything at the wall to deflect from his poor decision-making.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#491 » by therealbig3 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:57 pm

Would take Ben Simmons in a heart beat over Kyrie right now.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#492 » by Karate Diop » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:28 pm

So when people are anti-mandate... Are they anti... Every mandate? Or do they just hypocritically pick and choose?

Like are we going to revolt against driver's licenses? What about the mandates that restrict what you can take on flights? My local burger joint said no shirt, no shoes, no service but they can't stop me with their mandates!!!!1one!
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#493 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:39 pm

A little while ago today I was talking to a co worker, who is going back to her childhood home in India for a few weeks. Her mother and 7 other relatives died from Covid during the height of their outbreak, and only now is it safe for her to travel there to pay her respects.

When I hear horrific things like this, and I see what Kyrie is doing, it makes me even more infuriated. Here we have access to free vaccines, the top of the line ones at that, and we have this idiot going on IG in front of 100k people, many of whom are impressionable and unvaccinated, and he's spewing absolute nonsense.

Since he's not going to retire, I hope that there is some team out there really dumb enough to trade for this, deluded and narcissistic ass hole. Just get him out of here. I'm utterly, 100% disgusted by him.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#494 » by Rich Rane » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:46 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Would take Ben Simmons in a heart beat over Kyrie right now.


It's possible Simmons wouldn't be eligible to play in a Nets jersey either.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#495 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:15 pm

Here is the full IG live from Kyrie. I know some here said "I wont waste my time listening to the whole thing" but you should. Because you are going off like a 10 second sound bite when he talks for 20 minutes and responding to media headlines that dont even discuss what he talked about in length... which was, pretty well said regardless of if you agree with him or not



Some other main points....

1) He isn't trying to be "woke" he even criticizes himself for being "too woke" in the past and trying to make everyone see things his way. in his own words "ive said some of the stupidest things ever in the past". He straight up is like, I think its a personal choice, i feel im entitled to my choice, and i dont think peoples choice/livelihood should be taken away.

2) The safety thing. The idea that he is some enormous threat to the teams safety is absurd. 1) he isnt with the team currently. even when he was practicing, he had to go through tons of protocols which included multiple daily tests, masking, contact tracing, etc... If you do the math on the odds that he: Was asymptomatic, had MULTIPLE false negative tests, infected someone else who was vaccinated despite the protocols the odds of that happening are like .0001%. He is more likely to accidentally injure someone in a drill then give them COVID under the circumstances.

AGAIN: I still think its dumb he isnt vaccinated, but the idea there is some enormous risk for the nets to have unvaccinated members is absurd. Hell I believe its 9 teams are practacing/playing with unvaccinated players still. Their cities just dont have mandates. The entire team played an entire season together unvaccinated before the vaccine was out. The team played most of last year with multiple unvaccinated players (again no mandate at that time).

3) Kyrie points out he didnt create the mandate, he is reacting to this like others are. he says he was assured there would be exemptions for players and expected to just play, and then it turned out otherwise. He says he doesnt want to lose money or not play, but your person, yourself, your family those things are bigger then basketball and money. He feels he needs to stay true to himself (And whether you agree with his stance or not, he should be afforded that freedom).

4) Despite reports he states clearly 3 seperate times there is no animosity with the team, his teammates, or the NBA. He says he doesnt/wont retire and plans to play. Plans to pursue a title with the Nets (encouragement he will play this season).

5) He points out some flaws in the mandate without going to detals on reasons (Which he says is intentional he doesnt want to make it a debate about reasons, but about choices). But does point out the mandate is not applied equally (i.e. vistors/visiting players dont need abide by it, but the nets players do. Teachers/nurses need to abide by it, but not cops/fireman -- something many female politicians pointed out, that intentional or not jobs with a high female demographic are included under the mandate but jpbs with high male demographic are excluded).

Whether you believe some, all, or none of what he said or agree with none of his stance on the vaccine/mandate, what he is doing is at least reasonable and nothing millions of other New Yorkers dont also agree on/are handling the same way.

Bottom line. The mandate applies to 2 of 50 states and not to visitors only the home team. If we were in any of those 48 states this would be a non-issue. people can make it about safety but no one really had a problem with players playing before the vaccine was available and no one has issues with games going on in those 48 states if players arent vaccinated. It is unfortunate luck for us.

Kyrie is free to his choice. sucks for fans, but its his right and people can paint it otherwise or say it otherwise or his haters have wished it was some anti-vaxx conspiracy but everything he spoke on, at the very least, is somewhat reasomable even if you disagree.

People say he is making it up or backtracking but those are his words, choosing to instead believe what some media reporter says over his own words is your perrogative and not some universal truth.

Hopefully once games start and now that his message is public he will get on the court and fight this mandate with his money and not with his unity of not getting the shot.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#496 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:27 pm

Karate Diop wrote:So when people are anti-mandate... Are they anti... Every mandate? Or do they just hypocritically pick and choose?

Like are we going to revolt against driver's licenses?


Given each mandate is drastically different, id say you get to pick and choose.

For instance, with the NYC COVID mandate, the things people seem to have issue with is:

-If a teacher/professor does not get the vaccine, not only can they not work/not be paid, they can lose tenure/pension. It is argued that is both overreaching and illegal to remove something that was earned/entitled prior to the mandate.

-No religious exemption (a judge ruled in favor of nurses that there needs to be an exemption and injuction is in place).

-The mandate is not equally applied and is inheritly discriminatory. (Jobs with extremely high female populaitons (teachers/nurses) fall under the mandate but those with high male representation are excluded (cops, fireman)). Visiting players do not need to be vaccinated to play in NYC sports venus but home teams do (this makes 0 sense if its actually about safety)

-currently NYC theaters, nurses, security guards, and teamsters among smaller individual and class groups have cases against the city.

What about the mandates that restrict what you can take on flights?

Airlines are private. private corporations can put any restrictions they want. Additionally, telling someone they cant carry a gun is different from telling someone they need to take a drug or eat/drink/ingest something.
My local burger joint said no shirt, no shoes, no service but they can't stop me with their mandates!!!!1one!


again, your burger joint is a private entity, they can do what they want. The government needs to act with the rgulations set for its land and citizens within the laws and the constitution. part of being a "free country" is that the government needs to abide by the freedoms set without the constitution or law. Mandates are now law, not signed by congress. they are strictly set forth by the governor and their legality can (and often is) challenged.

Private businesses (like your burger joint) dont have such restrictions. as long as they arent being discriminatory based on race/gender/religion they are typically ok.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#497 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:28 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:A little while ago today I was talking to a co worker, who is going back to her childhood home in India for a few weeks. Her mother and 7 other relatives died from Covid during the height of their outbreak, and only now is it safe for her to travel there to pay her respects.

When I hear horrific things like this, and I see what Kyrie is doing, it makes me even more infuriated. Here we have access to free vaccines, the top of the line ones at that, and we have this idiot going on IG in front of 100k people, many of whom are impressionable and unvaccinated, and he's spewing absolute nonsense.

Since he's not going to retire, I hope that there is some team out there really dumb enough to trade for this, deluded and narcissistic ass hole. Just get him out of here. I'm utterly, 100% disgusted by him.


Kyrie has nothing to do with those deaths. putting them on him is really kind of out there. Not only is he not in indiana (where there is no mandate) He is not preventing them from getting the vaccine, wearing masks, social distancing, or attending high risks areas/events. Kyrie himself is subject to super strict protocols and the odds that he infects someone, especially someone vaccinated, is extremely low.

Your equating him with some COVID/pandemic denyer who refuses to wear a mask/says masks dont work, tells others not to get the vaccine and is out coughing in peoples faces on the street. its insanely unfair .
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#498 » by DarkXaero » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:36 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Would take Ben Simmons in a heart beat over Kyrie right now.
Ben Simmons would be a terrible fit/downgrade here in place of Kyrie.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#499 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:38 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Would take Ben Simmons in a heart beat over Kyrie right now.
Ben Simmons would be a terrible fit/downgrade here in place of Kyrie.


This.

0 games of Kyrie > 82 games of Simmons.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#500 » by DarkXaero » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:54 pm

Prokorov wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Would take Ben Simmons in a heart beat over Kyrie right now.
Ben Simmons would be a terrible fit/downgrade here in place of Kyrie.


This.

0 games of Kyrie > 82 games of Simmons.
I'm not gonna go that far but I'd definitely rather roll the dice with Kyrie possibly getting vaccine and/or mandate changes than have Simmons. Unless I know for certain that Kyrie can't play a single game for us anymore, I would not consider a trade for Simmons.

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