The Official Ben 10 Simmons Thread

[gigantes]

Ben is an exceptional distributor. IMO, in the art of passing, he’s even better than LBJ.

Guess I've seen my share of these posts.

I'm familiar with the rest of what you say, but then so were the Sixers. Giving him a pass on the back issue seems the right thing to do, but it also brings us to another significant issue-- the idea that growing his game in various ways seemed like priority #1 for his first four years, and yet for whatever reasons Simmons hasn't adjusted and hasn't grown nearly as much as seemed reasonable. His FT rate and FT% are almost totally stagnant for example. Why is that?

So these are my next concerns with him. Just how coachable is he, really? Are his agent and brother hindering him more than helping? Is he going to be able to reinvent his shooting form, and will that even make him a weak NBA shooter at the end of the day? (because last time I watched, his form looked like a near-complete disaster)

Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, but trying to lay out some real concerns for what we have with this player. That, amidst a real lack of enthusiasm about our coaching staff and even GM. But who knows, maybe the two idiots with their devotion to skills & technique can finally help him develop..

[NyCeEvO]

Ben is an exceptional distributor. IMO, in the art of passing, he’s even better than LBJ.

Guess I've seen my share of these posts.

I'm familiar with the rest of what you say, but then so were the Sixers. Giving him a pass on the back issue seems the right thing to do, but it also brings us to another significant issue-- the idea that growing his game in various ways seemed like priority #1 for his first four years, and yet for whatever reasons Simmons hasn't adjusted and hasn't grown nearly as much as seemed reasonable. His FT rate and FT% are almost totally stagnant for example. Why is that?

So these are my next concerns with him. Just how coachable is he, really? Are his agent and brother hindering him more than helping? Is he going to be able to reinvent his shooting form, and will that even make him a weak NBA shooter at the end of the day? (because last time I watched, his form looked like a near-complete disaster)

Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, but trying to lay out some real concerns for what we have with this player. That, amidst a real lack of enthusiasm about our coaching staff and even GM. But who knows, maybe the two idiots with their devotion to skills & technique can finally help him develop..

Oh yeah, there are definitely more reasons (some of which you have mentioned) to be worried about Ben.

I absolutely agree with you on the lack of progression. IMO, Ben had all of the tools to be the closest thing to the next LBJ. Although LBJ wasn’t a great shooter coming into the league, Ben was even worse. I think the hope was that while he might not reach LBJ’s scoring prowess, he possibly could make up at least some of the difference by being a marginally better defender and distributor.

Obviously, that comparison seems quite foolish now, since LBJ sought to improve every season and Simmons has basically been the same player since he was drafted. That’s a bad look for someone who is supposed to be your franchise player. It makes you question whether he has the desire to be the best possible version of himself and the will to lead your team to a title as the best player or if he just likes the lifestyle and status that comes with being an NBA player and doesn’t really care about winning.

Considering how important the ability to shoot from distance is in today’s game, this is why I don’t think Ben can be the best player on a championship team.

Some people have let their imaginations run when they heard that Rob Pelinka and Sean Marks met up. While I don’t think anything noteworthy would come of it (especially an LBJ trade to the Nets), if the Lakers offered LBJ for a swap with Ben, I’d do it in a heartbeat, with the caveat that LBJ has to be contracted to us for at least 2 years. IMO, 2 years of LBJ with KD and Kyrie (health permitting) guarantees us a title, while I don’t think Ben would lead us to more titles than LBJ despite being so much younger.

[gigantes]

Ben is an exceptional distributor. IMO, in the art of passing, he’s even better than LBJ.

Guess I've seen my share of these posts.

I'm familiar with the rest of what you say, but then so were the Sixers. Giving him a pass on the back issue seems the right thing to do, but it also brings us to another significant issue-- the idea that growing his game in various ways seemed like priority #1 for his first four years, and yet for whatever reasons Simmons hasn't adjusted and hasn't grown nearly as much as seemed reasonable. His FT rate and FT% are almost totally stagnant for example. Why is that?

So these are my next concerns with him. Just how coachable is he, really? Are his agent and brother hindering him more than helping? Is he going to be able to reinvent his shooting form, and will that even make him a weak NBA shooter at the end of the day? (because last time I watched, his form looked like a near-complete disaster)

Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, but trying to lay out some real concerns for what we have with this player. That, amidst a real lack of enthusiasm about our coaching staff and even GM. But who knows, maybe the two idiots with their devotion to skills & technique can finally help him develop..

Oh yeah, there are definitely more reasons (some of which you have mentioned) to be worried about Ben.

I absolutely agree with you on the lack of progression. IMO, Ben had all of the tools to be the closest thing to the next LBJ. Although LBJ wasn’t a great shooter coming into the league, Ben was even worse. I think the hope was that while he might not reach LBJ’s scoring prowess, he possibly could make up at least some of the difference by being a marginally better defender and distributor.

Obviously, that comparison seems quite foolish now, since LBJ sought to improve every season and Simmons has basically been the same player since he was drafted. That’s a bad look for someone who is supposed to be your franchise player. It makes you question whether he has the desire to be the best possible version of himself and the will to lead your team to a title as the best player or if he just likes the lifestyle and status that comes with being an NBA player and doesn’t really care about winning.

Considering how important the ability to shoot from distance is in today’s game, this is why I don’t think Ben can be the best player on a championship team.

Some people have let their imaginations run when they heard that Rob Pelinka and Sean Marks met up. While I don’t think anything noteworthy would come of it (especially an LBJ trade to the Nets), if the Lakers offered LBJ for a swap with Ben, I’d do it in a heartbeat, with the caveat that LBJ has to be contracted to us for at least 2 years. IMO, 2 years of LBJ with KD and Kyrie (health permitting) guarantees us a title, while I don’t think Ben would lead us to more titles than LBJ despite being so much younger.

If I was Marks back when he was trading for Simmons, I think I would have strongly pushed for some kind of dossier on the dude... a psychological profile, what coaching strategies were tried, what worked, what didn't, what to avoid in triggering him, etc. I fear that without such a dossier, Marks could accidentally lose Simmons simply by trying to do what any GM in his position is obligated to do, i.e. helping develop his game.

Come to think of it, that kind of good-faith internal report from the trading team to the receiving team seems almost crucial for certain players. So, hmm... I wonder if there really is something like that?

Anyway, interesting idea with the potential trade, and I guess I'd do it to match Durant's window of opportunity. I don't really have much hope for this iteration of the team, and would prefer rebuilding sooner rather than later, but renting an aging LeBron is a pretty reasonable gamble IMO.

Dunno how that works considering that he's completely sunk his roots down in to LA, but who knows?

Btw, I also find it kind of funny how much speculation there is around Pelinka and Marks hanging out that one time. I mean, most of these guys travel around each offseason and meet with lots of other people in the profession, so go figure. Slow news day, ND?

[NyCeEvO]

Guess I've seen my share of these posts.

I'm familiar with the rest of what you say, but then so were the Sixers. Giving him a pass on the back issue seems the right thing to do, but it also brings us to another significant issue-- the idea that growing his game in various ways seemed like priority #1 for his first four years, and yet for whatever reasons Simmons hasn't adjusted and hasn't grown nearly as much as seemed reasonable. His FT rate and FT% are almost totally stagnant for example. Why is that?

So these are my next concerns with him. Just how coachable is he, really? Are his agent and brother hindering him more than helping? Is he going to be able to reinvent his shooting form, and will that even make him a weak NBA shooter at the end of the day? (because last time I watched, his form looked like a near-complete disaster)

Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, but trying to lay out some real concerns for what we have with this player. That, amidst a real lack of enthusiasm about our coaching staff and even GM. But who knows, maybe the two idiots with their devotion to skills & technique can finally help him develop..

Oh yeah, there are definitely more reasons (some of which you have mentioned) to be worried about Ben.

I absolutely agree with you on the lack of progression. IMO, Ben had all of the tools to be the closest thing to the next LBJ. Although LBJ wasn’t a great shooter coming into the league, Ben was even worse. I think the hope was that while he might not reach LBJ’s scoring prowess, he possibly could make up at least some of the difference by being a marginally better defender and distributor.

Obviously, that comparison seems quite foolish now, since LBJ sought to improve every season and Simmons has basically been the same player since he was drafted. That’s a bad look for someone who is supposed to be your franchise player. It makes you question whether he has the desire to be the best possible version of himself and the will to lead your team to a title as the best player or if he just likes the lifestyle and status that comes with being an NBA player and doesn’t really care about winning.

Considering how important the ability to shoot from distance is in today’s game, this is why I don’t think Ben can be the best player on a championship team.

Some people have let their imaginations run when they heard that Rob Pelinka and Sean Marks met up. While I don’t think anything noteworthy would come of it (especially an LBJ trade to the Nets), if the Lakers offered LBJ for a swap with Ben, I’d do it in a heartbeat, with the caveat that LBJ has to be contracted to us for at least 2 years. IMO, 2 years of LBJ with KD and Kyrie (health permitting) guarantees us a title, while I don’t think Ben would lead us to more titles than LBJ despite being so much younger.

If I was Marks back when he was trading for Simmons, I think I would have strongly pushed for some kind of dossier on the dude... a psychological profile, what coaching strategies were tried, what worked, what didn't, what to avoid in triggering him, etc. I fear that without such a dossier, Marks could accidentally lose Simmons simply by trying to do what any GM in his position is obligated to do, i.e. helping develop his game.

Come to think of it, that kind of good-faith internal report from the trading team to the receiving team seems almost crucial for certain players. So, hmm... I wonder if there really is something like that?

Anyway, interesting idea with the potential trade, and I guess I'd do it to match Durant's window of opportunity. I don't really have much hope for this iteration of the team, and would prefer rebuilding sooner rather than later, but renting an aging LeBron is a pretty reasonable gamble IMO.

Dunno how that works considering that he's completely sunk his roots down in to LA, but who knows?

Btw, I also find it kind of funny how much speculation there is around Pelinka and Marks hanging out that one time. I mean, most of these guys travel around each offseason and meet with lots of other people in the profession, so go figure. Slow news day, ND?

I’m sure Marks did his due diligence, however Philly was under no obligation to provide any answers beyond what I imagine is standard protocol.

Marks used to pride his team on being prepared for any situation (e.g. even in drafts where we didn’t have picks, they’d still evaluate players and do mock drafts) because unforeseen opportunities can present themselves at any time.

It was going to be a risk no matter what because it seemed like Harden was going to leave the team no matter what. Ben is still young p, so he’d still be an asset to have for at least a few teams, despite what everything that has transpired.

Regarding rebuilding, I’m not a fan of tearing it all down unless we absolutely have to. We’ve missed on top prospects despite fielding horrible teams. I don’t want to waste more years in the doldrums hoping that we’ll draft the next LBJ but end up with someone who’s just alright. IMO, if we’re certain that we can’t and won’t win with KD and Kyrie at the core, trade them for the best young stars you can get, but there’s no guarantee we’ll get closer to a title the next time we try to win it all.

[gigantes]

Oh yeah, there are definitely more reasons (some of which you have mentioned) to be worried about Ben.

I absolutely agree with you on the lack of progression. IMO, Ben had all of the tools to be the closest thing to the next LBJ. Although LBJ wasn’t a great shooter coming into the league, Ben was even worse. I think the hope was that while he might not reach LBJ’s scoring prowess, he possibly could make up at least some of the difference by being a marginally better defender and distributor.

Obviously, that comparison seems quite foolish now, since LBJ sought to improve every season and Simmons has basically been the same player since he was drafted. That’s a bad look for someone who is supposed to be your franchise player. It makes you question whether he has the desire to be the best possible version of himself and the will to lead your team to a title as the best player or if he just likes the lifestyle and status that comes with being an NBA player and doesn’t really care about winning.

Considering how important the ability to shoot from distance is in today’s game, this is why I don’t think Ben can be the best player on a championship team.

Some people have let their imaginations run when they heard that Rob Pelinka and Sean Marks met up. While I don’t think anything noteworthy would come of it (especially an LBJ trade to the Nets), if the Lakers offered LBJ for a swap with Ben, I’d do it in a heartbeat, with the caveat that LBJ has to be contracted to us for at least 2 years. IMO, 2 years of LBJ with KD and Kyrie (health permitting) guarantees us a title, while I don’t think Ben would lead us to more titles than LBJ despite being so much younger.

If I was Marks back when he was trading for Simmons, I think I would have strongly pushed for some kind of dossier on the dude... a psychological profile, what coaching strategies were tried, what worked, what didn't, what to avoid in triggering him, etc. I fear that without such a dossier, Marks could accidentally lose Simmons simply by trying to do what any GM in his position is obligated to do, i.e. helping develop his game.

Come to think of it, that kind of good-faith internal report from the trading team to the receiving team seems almost crucial for certain players. So, hmm... I wonder if there really is something like that?

Anyway, interesting idea with the potential trade, and I guess I'd do it to match Durant's window of opportunity. I don't really have much hope for this iteration of the team, and would prefer rebuilding sooner rather than later, but renting an aging LeBron is a pretty reasonable gamble IMO.

Dunno how that works considering that he's completely sunk his roots down in to LA, but who knows?

Btw, I also find it kind of funny how much speculation there is around Pelinka and Marks hanging out that one time. I mean, most of these guys travel around each offseason and meet with lots of other people in the profession, so go figure. Slow news day, ND?

I’m sure Marks did his due diligence, however Philly was under no obligation to provide any answers beyond what I imagine is standard protocol.

I'm sure he did; I'm just a bit curious as to how these sorts of things work in practice. Because as I see it, GM's have the potential to screw other teams over a good bit, but also to provide key bits of info here and there, perhaps dependent on their past working relationship.

Not saying most transactions aren't conducted in the 'vanilla' sense, but here and there I imagine they it could play out differently, with key info being either withheld or shared. For example, I could see GM's from the 'Pop / Spurs' tree having something like a code, or at least a feeling of fairplay amongst themselves.

Morey might have had some interesting things to share about Simmons if he'd cared to. Meanwhile, I doubt Marks has anything to share about Harden that Morey didn't know already.

As for the rest... yup, pretty much.

[BRO klyn]

I'm sure Marks did his due diligence on Ben. That said, even on what we only knew at the time (he hadnt played in a year, was claiming mental health issues) I think it was a mistake not to expand the trade to 3 teams and try and land more durable player(s). Like Collins/Huerter or Haliburton or Fox/Holmes or something.

I though the original Harden deal was smart because to that point he was an iron man and durable. could help with the time KD/Kyrie would surely miss. i thought turning simmons into someone more reliable to be on the court made more sense.

[NyCeEvO]

I'm sure Marks did his due diligence on Ben. That said, even on what we only knew at the time (he hadnt played in a year, was claiming mental health issues) I think it was a mistake not to expand the trade to 3 teams and try and land more durable player(s). Like Collins/Huerter or Haliburton or Fox/Holmes or something.

I though the original Harden deal was smart because to that point he was an iron man and durable. could help with the time KD/Kyrie would surely miss. i thought turning simmons into someone more reliable to be on the court made more sense.

Yeah, I have no regrets about trading for Harden. Based on what we knew and thought we were getting at the time, you do that trade 10 out of 10 times.

As I said at the time of the deal, I do think Marks should’ve asked for more considering how adamant Morey was about acquiring Harden. At the very least, an additional fringe player could’ve been used as a flippable asset later on down the line.

I don’t think a 3 team deal would’ve been realistic though. Multi-team trades with superstars tend to take a while to execute and the Harden situation unraveled with us too close to the deadline for Marks to have sufficient time to work out a better 3+ team trade.

[GTR11]

https://youtu.be/5aTyCuZGLqw

This is what we have to pray Ben can become, to be specific, to have some type of mid range jumper. He's much better than Wiggins in everything else. If he can get over that hurdle, we become completely different animal. He will be right there along side Giannis, which is top 5 or 3 player.