The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

[Roy Tarpley]

I don't think it's weird or unfair for Prok to simply make the point based on statistics that Crabbe and Harris are pretty similar while Crabbe's contract is huge. That's just a fact. We'll see if Crabbe can be what Marks envisions.

[Ror1997]

I don't think it's weird or unfair for Prok to simply make the point based on statistics that Crabbe and Harris are pretty similar while Crabbe's contract is huge. That's just a fact. We'll see if Crabbe can be what Marks envisions.

I agree. That's wouldn't be weird.

Prok just doesn't want to see Crabbe succeed. He spent all of last year calling Crabbe a bullet dodged and the Nets went out and got him anyway. Crabbe being good means that Prok would've been wrong. And Prok never wants to be wrong. Thats also why this thread has been derailed so hard. You can't win an argument against prok, he can't fathom being wrong.

[Roy Tarpley]

I don't think it's weird or unfair for Prok to simply make the point based on statistics that Crabbe and Harris are pretty similar while Crabbe's contract is huge. That's just a fact. We'll see if Crabbe can be what Marks envisions.

I agree. That's wouldn't be weird.

Prok just doesn't want to see Crabbe succeed. He spent all of last year calling Crabbe a bullet dodged and the Nets went out and got him anyway. Crabbe being good means that Prok would've been wrong. And Prok never wants to be wrong. Thats also why this thread has been derailed so hard. You can't win an argument against prok, he can't fathom being wrong.

LOL. Yeah, that's true. But Prok always back up his positions. And because he's so clearcut on his positions, you can easily assess later whether he's right or wrong. And he'll admit it. He said Lin and Booker were bench F-level scrubs and they both turned out to be key players. Both Lin and Booker had career years on a per minute basis.

[MrDollarBills]

Prok's criticism of Crabbe versus the impact on cap space has 100% merit. Whether or not Crabbe = Harris is up in the air. Joe Harris has been fantastic all preseason and he deserves a spot in the rotation.

I just am not going to write the guy off as a poor investment until he shows that getting him was a mistake, and I won't do that based off of a game where we got blitzed on a 27-1 run that the coach used as a teaching moment.

[steady]

Prok's criticism of Crabbe versus the impact on cap space has 100% merit. Whether or not Crabbe = Harris is up in the air. Joe Harris has been fantastic all preseason and he deserves a spot in the rotation.

I just am not going to write the guy off as a poor investment until he shows that getting him was a mistake, and I won't do that based off of a game where we got blitzed on a 27-1 run that the coach used as a teaching moment.

As I have said in Harris thread, I want KA to extend the rotation to 12 players, just so we can find a role for Joe Harris. I could not be a bigger fan of Harris.

I would just say let's wait before going off on the comparisons because we don't really have a good basis for comparison at this point. Crabbe getting the leftover points on a team dominated by CJ and Dame at the guard positions, versus Harris last year getting the Kyle Korver treatment in KA's Atlanta Hawks offense, in terms of getting screens set for him, plays run for him, etc. These are not comparable data points.

And remember Harris knows the team, the players and coachers; Crabbe is completely new to team. Like players were saying after Knicks II, Crabbe's hot shooting on the night was incredible especially because of this.

Let's wait until we have some basis for comparison before we conclude that Crabbe is a bust.

Also, ,I don't mean the comparison of Harris to Dinwiddie in a derogatory way. I am a big fan of both of these players, and think they have very potential upside. But Dinwiddie has years to grow before he can be as good as JLin, and imo the same applies to Harris with regard to Crabbe.

[Paradise]

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[Prokorov]

We just excercised our option for D'lo, RHJ and Cariss. Which means this coming off season they are due for their extensions (your right about that also i'm not including Cariss for an extension) But my point still remains. Once they have signed their extensions we will only have 1 year left of Crabbe and Moz on the books. Again with the increase of the salary cap, the possibilty of a trade deadline deal or (hope not) an injury that causes a buy out or stretch of contract. I still don't see how this effects our salary cap space going forward!
You can argue all day that Crabbe is not worth the contract. You can argue all day that Harris and Crabbe are the same player's. And yes Harris' contract is miles better than Crabbe's. But again I back Mark's in everyday of the week. So far he hasn't done anything wrong by us. I would do the deal again as we got a far better player in Crabbe than what we gave Portland.

if your response is just blind love for marks cause he "hasn messed up yet" then there really isnt a discussion to be had. is crabbe better the nicholson? yes. but he is also a much much worse contract.

also, you are missing the point salary wise. we need to capatilize on the cap space BEFORE the extensions. once we sign the extensions that space doesnt matter much since we'd be over the cap anyhow.

But yet your blind love for Harris is acceptable "because he hasn't messed up yet"

Are you not allowed to go over the cap to sign your own players anymore?

what love for harris? im not saying harris is any good. i just said he is no worse then crabbe. being as good as crabbe isnt special. crabbe is a bench player.

you can go over the cap to sign your own guys. that doesnt help if you want to sign a free agent or use cap space to aquire young assets.

[Prokorov]

I don't think it's weird or unfair for Prok to simply make the point based on statistics that Crabbe and Harris are pretty similar while Crabbe's contract is huge. That's just a fact. We'll see if Crabbe can be what Marks envisions.

I agree. That's wouldn't be weird.

Prok just doesn't want to see Crabbe succeed. He spent all of last year calling Crabbe a bullet dodged and the Nets went out and got him anyway. Crabbe being good means that Prok would've been wrong. And Prok never wants to be wrong. Thats also why this thread has been derailed so hard. You can't win an argument against prok, he can't fathom being wrong.

that couldnt be more false. id love to see crabbe turn out to be a hidden gem and huge signing that turns itno an unexpected fringe all-star. look at the preseason game threads. i praised him the first game when he did well and didint say a peep game 2 when he did poorly. why? because i dont dislike crabbe. my issue is with marks on this not crabbe. its not crabbes fault marks offered him a huge deal. was he supposed to say no to being overpaid? of course not.

that doesnt mean im going to pretend it was a good offer or a good trade. i dont think it was.

I also take offense to "he cant fathom being wrong" im wrong all the time and unlike many i admit when im wrong. i was wrong on plumlee. i was wong on melvin ejim, i was wrong on Lin, i was wrong on booker.... but im not going to let popular opinion dictate narrative when the facts say otherwise.

i said we dodged a bullet because i thought we dodged a bullet. not often do you give 19 million to a forner second round pick bench player and have that prove to be a valuable move.

[steady]

I don't think it's weird or unfair for Prok to simply make the point based on statistics that Crabbe and Harris are pretty similar while Crabbe's contract is huge. That's just a fact. We'll see if Crabbe can be what Marks envisions.

I agree. That's wouldn't be weird.

Prok just doesn't want to see Crabbe succeed. He spent all of last year calling Crabbe a bullet dodged and the Nets went out and got him anyway. Crabbe being good means that Prok would've been wrong. And Prok never wants to be wrong. Thats also why this thread has been derailed so hard. You can't win an argument against prok, he can't fathom being wrong.

that couldnt be more false. id love to see crabbe turn out to be a hidden gem and huge signing that turns itno an unexpected fringe all-star. look at the preseason game threads. i praised him the first game when he did well and didint say a peep game 2 when he did poorly. why? because i dont dislike crabbe. my issue is with marks on this not crabbe. its not crabbes fault marks offered him a huge deal. was he supposed to say no to being overpaid? of course not.

that doesnt mean im going to pretend it was a good offer or a good trade. i dont think it was.

I also take offense to "he cant fathom being wrong" im wrong all the time and unlike many i admit when im wrong. i was wrong on plumlee. i was wong on melvin ejim, i was wrong on Lin, i was wrong on booker.... but im not going to let popular opinion dictate narrative when the facts say otherwise.

i said we dodged a bullet because i thought we dodged a bullet. not often do you give 19 million to a forner second round pick bench player and have that prove to be a valuable move.

Ok I respect that difference, but then can't we take that discussion to the Marks thread or the trade thread or the off-season thread

Can't the Allen Crabbe thread be about his performance and his effort, his adjusting to BKN and his development ? Love it or hate it, the deals done. He's here, and excited to be here.

[Prokorov]

I agree. That's wouldn't be weird.

Prok just doesn't want to see Crabbe succeed. He spent all of last year calling Crabbe a bullet dodged and the Nets went out and got him anyway. Crabbe being good means that Prok would've been wrong. And Prok never wants to be wrong. Thats also why this thread has been derailed so hard. You can't win an argument against prok, he can't fathom being wrong.

that couldnt be more false. id love to see crabbe turn out to be a hidden gem and huge signing that turns itno an unexpected fringe all-star. look at the preseason game threads. i praised him the first game when he did well and didint say a peep game 2 when he did poorly. why? because i dont dislike crabbe. my issue is with marks on this not crabbe. its not crabbes fault marks offered him a huge deal. was he supposed to say no to being overpaid? of course not.

that doesnt mean im going to pretend it was a good offer or a good trade. i dont think it was.

I also take offense to "he cant fathom being wrong" im wrong all the time and unlike many i admit when im wrong. i was wrong on plumlee. i was wong on melvin ejim, i was wrong on Lin, i was wrong on booker.... but im not going to let popular opinion dictate narrative when the facts say otherwise.

i said we dodged a bullet because i thought we dodged a bullet. not often do you give 19 million to a forner second round pick bench player and have that prove to be a valuable move.

Ok I respect that difference, but then can't we take that discussion to the Marks thread or the trade thread or the off-season thread

Can't the Allen Crabbe thread be about his performance and his effort, his adjusting to BKN and his development ? Love it or hate it, the deals done. He's here, and excited to be here.

im not the one to keep that argument alive here. i made the comment when we first signed him that we just gave someone who is basically joe harris 19 million. people said i was crazy, as if it is some off the wall comparison. all ive done is defend against people saying that comparison was nuts. the evidence says otherwise.

ive not said a negative thing about crabbe in the game threads. and i HAVE criticised marks for this in the marks thread

[kamaze]

Give it a rest Brooklyn wanted Crabbe so bad they gave him a big contract Joe is an ok player on a bad team.

[DusterBuster]

Last nights game was a pretty perfect example of the type of player Crabbe was in Portland. Coming off the bench, getting near starter level minutes and only taking 5 shots. If there's any silver lining with the Lin injury (which really sucks btw, it's been a brutal opening to the season with injuries), maybe this opens up a spot for Crabbe to start alongside Russell?


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[MrDollarBills]

I'd prefer to start LeVert but I can see the team maybe wanting to give Crabbe a go at SG.

Crabbe only got 5 shots because the Pacers were deathly afraid of him getting the ball. he drew a ton of defensive attention that opened up other areas of the floor. That's a great sign imo.

[624]

I'd prefer to start LeVert but I can see the team maybe wanting to give Crabbe a go at SG.

Crabbe only got 5 shots because the Pacers were deathly afraid of him getting the ball. he drew a ton of defensive attention that opened up other areas of the floor. That's a great sign imo.

Yeah Crabbe's impact was very evident even though he only got a few shots up. He also looked good on D and surprised me with that drive and dunk.

[DusterBuster]

I'd prefer to start LeVert but I can see the team maybe wanting to give Crabbe a go at SG.

Crabbe only got 5 shots because the Pacers were deathly afraid of him getting the ball. he drew a ton of defensive attention that opened up other areas of the floor. That's a great sign imo.

Yeah Crabbe's impact was very evident even though he only got a few shots up. He also looked good on D and surprised me with that drive and dunk.

Again, this is exactly what the Blazers had with Crabbe. It's great that he's such a threat because he opens things up by drawing defensive attention, but it's freaking maddening that he only takes 5 or 6 shots a game when he has so many minutes and opportunities.

It's why I'm really pulling for the Nets to start him. I really want to see him in a role where he's asked to be more than a offensive decoy that only takes 5 or 6 shots a game.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'd prefer to start LeVert but I can see the team maybe wanting to give Crabbe a go at SG.

Crabbe only got 5 shots because the Pacers were deathly afraid of him getting the ball. he drew a ton of defensive attention that opened up other areas of the floor. That's a great sign imo.

Yeah Crabbe's impact was very evident even though he only got a few shots up. He also looked good on D and surprised me with that drive and dunk.

Yeah his handle looked either much improved or it was much better than advertised because he wasn't asked or even allowed to dribble much with 2 aces like Lillard and McCollum on the court with him and a guy like Turner with a huge contract who needs to ball in his hands and pounds the air out of it.

I'm not trying to say he has a good handle. Hell, I don't know if it's even average, but it certainly looks much better than the Anthony Morrow level handle I kind of thought he had.

[Prokorov]

Last nights game was a pretty perfect example of the type of player Crabbe was in Portland. Coming off the bench, getting near starter level minutes and only taking 5 shots. If there's any silver lining with the Lin injury (which really sucks btw, it's been a brutal opening to the season with injuries), maybe this opens up a spot for Crabbe to start alongside Russell?


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Cant afford to start crabbe and russell. for defensive reasons you need levert in there plus kenny wants 2 ball handlers on the floor at all times

[Prokorov]

I'd prefer to start LeVert but I can see the team maybe wanting to give Crabbe a go at SG.

Crabbe only got 5 shots because the Pacers were deathly afraid of him getting the ball. he drew a ton of defensive attention that opened up other areas of the floor. That's a great sign imo.

Yeah Crabbe's impact was very evident even though he only got a few shots up. He also looked good on D and surprised me with that drive and dunk.

Yeah his handle looked either much improved or it was much better than advertised because he wasn't asked or even allowed to dribble much with 2 aces like Lillard and McCollum on the court with him and a guy like Turner with a huge contract who needs to ball in his hands and pounds the air out of it.

I'm not trying to say he has a good handle. Hell, I don't know if it's even average, but it certainly looks much better than the Anthony Morrow level handle I kind of thought he had.

its a myth he wasnt allowed to handle the ball in portland. (every blazer fan will tell you that, just go to their forum and look at any crabbe post from last year). the only person prevent crabbe from doing more is crabbe. similar to lopez when he checks out aggression wise

[vincecarter4pres]

Yeah Crabbe's impact was very evident even though he only got a few shots up. He also looked good on D and surprised me with that drive and dunk.

Yeah his handle looked either much improved or it was much better than advertised because he wasn't asked or even allowed to dribble much with 2 aces like Lillard and McCollum on the court with him and a guy like Turner with a huge contract who needs to ball in his hands and pounds the air out of it.

I'm not trying to say he has a good handle. Hell, I don't know if it's even average, but it certainly looks much better than the Anthony Morrow level handle I kind of thought he had.

its a myth he wasnt allowed to handle the ball in portland. (every blazer fan will tell you that, just go to their forum and look at any crabbe post from last year). the only person prevent crabbe from doing more is crabbe. similar to lopez when he checks out aggression wise

I agree aggression wise. As in shot attempts and the such. But I'd imagine Portland's coaching staff didn't want him to put the ball on the floor. And to add to that, Coach Kenny is a guy who has always forced guys out of their comfort zone and pressured them to improve their handle and put the ball on the floor, even if they were known as guys with a suspect handle and low confidence in that area on the NBA level, back to all his assistant coaching stints. Guys like Carroll, Bazemore, Horford, etc.

[MGrand15]

Our guys need to be fined if Crabbe is open at the 3pt line and they miss him. Happened a few times yesterday. He's the first guy they gotta look for during any situation where the defense is scrambling. Transition, offensive rebounds, anything.