Harden-watch 2020

[Prokorov]

Right now, the Nets have no choice. We are in a once in a lifetime situation: A top 5 player is demanding to be traded to US.

Marks needs to offer Allen, LeVert, Dinwiddie, Prince + #19, 1st '22, 1st 24, with pick swap options on 1st '21, and 1st '23. All picks will have a certain degree of protection. That's 5 picks.

I have my concerns about Harden, but the Lakers are reloaded. The Bucks are reloaded. We cannot afford to let this opportunity slip.

What exactly are your concerns with Harden? For me, I have less concerns with him then Kyrie or KD.

-Harden is Durable
-Hardens stats have historically translated to wins
-Stars who have paired with Harden have fared well (CP3's most succesful year, westbrook was better with him vs PG)
-He has excelled in both small ball and a rim running big
-Elite off ball shooter
-Defense has been extremely solid if not good since 2017
-Has shown he can lead a team with no other stars to regular season wins

Biggest concern is maybe his contract but he is only 31 and has been super durable so that isnt too risky.

I mean the guy is a perrnail top 5 MVP vote getter and perrenial scoring champ.

Despite all the talking heads and casuals saying otherwise... Kyrie/KD/Harden is actually an elite fit. 3 guys who can play on ball, off ball, and run pick and roll. all 3 are elite shooters. all 3 have insane BBIQ's. there are going to be some '92 dream team -esque moments

Mainly his attitude towards his usage. He's gotten accustomed to being the entire offense. I'm assuming that since he and KD are in cahoots, he's coming in with the mindset that he will have to get used to playing off the ball more in an offense where Nash and MDA will want the ball to move and flow quickly.

the fact that he spoke with KD and wants to be here has alleviated my concerns about his fit for the most part. He knows what he's getting into.

Harden is the best offensive player in the league and the most efficient (not include centers who take 5 shots a game which are all dunks). he SHOULD have the highest volume, even here. Jordan is only catching lobs. Harris is only shooting kick out threes. you can easily find 20 shots a game for all three of those guys over 48 minutes.

In todays NBA what do the best defenses do (think LA, Miami, Milwaukee)... they switch everything. with 1 or 2 stars it maye take 10-12 second and 2-3 picks to hunt a great matchup. with 3 elite scoring stars it would take closer to 4 seconds and 1 pick. D'antoni is going to find ways to have an elite scorer on a scrub every time down the floor and do it with 16+ seconds left on the clock

[TheNetsFan]

When considering trades & pick swaps, it's good to understand Houston's current draft pick inventory:
2020: #16 (from Portland)
2021: Top X Protected 1st from Portland, Worst of HOU/OKC/MIA (likely Miami)
2022: HOU
2023: HOU
2024: HOU (only if 1-4)
2025: Worse of HOU/OKC
2026: HOU (only if 1-4)

Given that they do not control their 2021, it's understandable if HOU would prefer to delay their rebuild a year (or at least delay a Harden trade until the deadline). They probably prefer to kick off their rebuild in 2023 or 2024. Additionally, from a timing perspective, they'd likely want a pick (not swap) in 2024 & 2026.

[Hello Brooklyn]

When considering trades & pick swaps, it's good to understand Houston's current draft pick inventory:
2020: #16 (from Portland)
2021: Top X Protected 1st from Portland, Worst of HOU/OKC/MIA (likely Miami)
2022: HOU
2023: HOU
2024: HOU (only if 1-4)
2025: Worse of HOU/OKC
2026: HOU (only if 1-4)

Given that they do not control their 2021, it's understandable if HOU would prefer to delay their rebuild a year (or at least delay a Harden trade until the deadline). They probably prefer to kick off their rebuild in 2023 or 2024. Additionally, from a timing perspective, they'd likely want a pick (not swap) in 2024 & 2026.

They may not want to, but this season will be a disaster without Covington and with both Harden and Westbrook asking out. Looks like Tucker wants out too.

[NyCeEvO]

People here need to remember KD's prime is limited and he is coming off a career-ending injury. As a long-time KD fan, I think it makes perfect sense for the Nets to maximize their chance of winning as soon as possible so KD doesn't get to carry too much burden in his first season with the Nets (which could lead to reinjuring himself perhaps). Getting Harden is a must imo and is an injury insurance. Bucks just strengthened their team now. Miami are still Miami and might get better! And if Phily gets Harden, the Nets chances of winning a title becomes much much harder imo.

Nets are the best team in the East as is.

That remains to be seen. I think some Nets fans have completely underrated how much our path to greatness is affected by how health.

The best ability is availability, and yet:

1) our best player is coming back from an injury that used to be a career-ender (or at the very least greatly diminish one's athletic ability);
2) our 2nd best player in Kyrie and 3rd/4th best player in Levert are undoubtedly injury-prone. (I wanted Kyrie to be load managed before he got injured last year, because I saw how hard he was playing and knew that he was injury-prone. I wasn't surprised to see him go down with yet another season-ending injury.)

If we have Harden, we'd have a durable MVP-caliber player who can take pressure off of KD and Kyrie and allow them to ease their way into the season and hopefully be primed for the post-season.

While I have always loved LeVert, he cannot be insurance for an injury-prone Kyrie, since he is injury-prone himself.

Dinwiddie is good insurance for Kyrie but he's only here for this year. I'd be surprised if he preferred to stay with us as opposed to going elsewhere and securing his bag. At least with Harden, we'd have a much better player who is guaranteed to be here for at least 2, if not 3 more seasons.

We don't need to do a panic move and mortgage our future to get Harden here asap.

Asking price will come down at the deadline and next off season after the dumpster fire of a season the Rockets will have.

Trading for Harden isn't a panic move. He not only elevates the talent level of our core trip to absurd heights, he also provides incredible insurance for a team that is used to having key players miss significant chunks of the season.


The endgoal is to win a championship. Teams with high lottery picks hope that their players will develop into superstars who will one day be good enough to deliver a title to a franchise.

The already Nets have one generational superstar in KD (although we don't know how close he is to being 100%) and an Uber-talented Allstar who can routinely put together superstar performances. Harden is another generational superstar.

What is the likelihood that the draft picks the Nets would have in the next 5-6 seasons would develop into talents exceeding the combined abilities of KD, Kyrie, and Harden? Very, very slim.

Dinwiddie, LeVert, Allen, and 2-4 draft picks is fair compensation for a generational superstar who has taken his team much farther on his own than they have and probably will ever to take us. I understand the emotional attachment to our own players, but Harden elevates our talent higher and provides more stability than our own guys. (Plus, Kyrie is technically more homegrown than any other player on the team considering that he's actually from NJ.)

[MrDollarBills]

There is no further debate. Trade everything not named Kyrie and KD and get this done.

[StepBackCrack]

The more I think about this the more I think the Nets should go all in for Harden. These picks are way overvalued man. This is not Paul George we are talking about guys. This is James Harden!! A totally different tier type of player. One of the greatest SGs ever and has high high IQ. He will adapt easily and make this team WAY better it's not even funny. It's a no brainer to me because waiting a year might seriously hurt KD and Kyrie and wasting a year of their prime and the Nets can't afford that imo. The future is NOW (as someone here said).

Missing this chance could prove to be seriously costly for the Nets. What if KD injures himself again carrying the load? Or Kyrie? And honestly even if they are healthy, the Bucks still have the best starting 5 and Miami will only get stronger with their perfect team chemistry! The East is getting tougher. Lakers will improve as well.

Bottom line is: Go get James Harden Nets!!! It's really a no brainer. Give whatever it takes. These additional picks are way overvalued imo (especially for James freakin Harden not Paul George type of player).

[StepBackCrack]

There is no further debate. Trade everything not named Kyrie and KD and get this done.

Glad someone agrees with me here. It's really a no brainer honestly.

[Paradise]

There is no further debate. Trade everything not named Kyrie and KD and get this done.

2002:

2022:

I think it’s perfect timing. I think Joe Tsai will push for this to get done eventually even long term.

[MrDollarBills]

There is no further debate. Trade everything not named Kyrie and KD and get this done.

Glad someone agrees with me here. It's really a no brainer honestly.

I was iffy initially, but if this guy wants to be here, that's all I need to know.

[MichaelRayRich]

...

[Prokorov]

NBA insider Ric Bucher dropped the bombshell revelation on "The Odd Couple" podcast this week ... saying Tilman Fertitta's ties to the Republican party and Trump have created a massive divide in the org.

According to Bucher ... players and staffers have disagreed so heavily with Tilman's donations to the Trump campaign -- it's created a straight-up "revolt."

"What I heard is," Bucher said, "and we know how much politics and political position had to do with the boycott and protests during the Bubble -- I'm hearing that Tilman Fertitta’s strong Republican support and donations is one of the things that is contributing to this dissatisfaction."

https://www.tmz.com/2020/11/17/james-harden-houston-rockets-ric-bucher-revolt-tillman-fertitta/

If the above is true it makes me want harden even more.

[Prokorov]

Read on Twitter

there is alot of smoke. hopefully there is fire

[MGrand15]

The more I think about this the more I think the Nets should go all in for Harden. These picks are way overvalued man. This is not Paul George we are talking about guys. This is James Harden!! A totally different tier type of player. One of the greatest SGs ever and has high high IQ. He will adapt easily and make this team WAY better it's not even funny. It's a no brainer to me because waiting a year might seriously hurt KD and Kyrie and wasting a year of their prime and the Nets can't afford that imo. The future is NOW (as someone here said).

Missing this chance could prove to be seriously costly for the Nets. What if KD injures himself again carrying the load? Or Kyrie? And honestly even if they are healthy, the Bucks still have the best starting 5 and Miami will only get stronger with their perfect team chemistry! The East is getting tougher. Lakers will improve as well.

Bottom line is: Go get James Harden Nets!!! It's really a no brainer. Give whatever it takes. These additional picks are way overvalued imo (especially for James freakin Harden not Paul George type of player).

Outside of the fit concerns, I think some of us have PTSD from the Billy King era. We gave up all our picks and it was absolute worst case scenario in every sense.

I agree with you though. F those future picks. I was a little hesitant before but I think you do it and figure it out later. Throw some protections on the picks if necessary. The biggest problem last time was we had Billy King running the show. It wasn't just the KG/PP move. The Joe Johnson trade + Gerald Wallace trade made it much much worse.

[Rich Rane]

I'll echo sentiments from some other posters. I hate watching Harden, but damn if this isn't intriguing.

[MGrand15]

Read on Twitter

there is alot of smoke. hopefully there is fire

Wow. I 100% trust Pooch. He was on the Kyrie (possibly KD?) thing SUPER early. Even got made fun of on sports radio because he was the only one reporting it.

[DarkXaero]

Pooch isn't a liar at all, but I doubt he's well connected enough to know this before any of the big names. Not taking it seriously.

[babyjax13]

What exactly are your concerns with Harden? For me, I have less concerns with him then Kyrie or KD.

-Harden is Durable
-Hardens stats have historically translated to wins
-Stars who have paired with Harden have fared well (CP3's most succesful year, westbrook was better with him vs PG)
-He has excelled in both small ball and a rim running big
-Elite off ball shooter
-Defense has been extremely solid if not good since 2017
-Has shown he can lead a team with no other stars to regular season wins

Biggest concern is maybe his contract but he is only 31 and has been super durable so that isnt too risky.

I mean the guy is a perrnail top 5 MVP vote getter and perrenial scoring champ.

Despite all the talking heads and casuals saying otherwise... Kyrie/KD/Harden is actually an elite fit. 3 guys who can play on ball, off ball, and run pick and roll. all 3 are elite shooters. all 3 have insane BBIQ's. there are going to be some '92 dream team -esque moments

Mainly his attitude towards his usage. He's gotten accustomed to being the entire offense. I'm assuming that since he and KD are in cahoots, he's coming in with the mindset that he will have to get used to playing off the ball more in an offense where Nash and MDA will want the ball to move and flow quickly.

the fact that he spoke with KD and wants to be here has alleviated my concerns about his fit for the most part. He knows what he's getting into.

Harden is the best offensive player in the league and the most efficient (not include centers who take 5 shots a game which are all dunks). he SHOULD have the highest volume, even here. Jordan is only catching lobs. Harris is only shooting kick out threes. you can easily find 20 shots a game for all three of those guys over 48 minutes.

In todays NBA what do the best defenses do (think LA, Miami, Milwaukee)... they switch everything. with 1 or 2 stars it maye take 10-12 second and 2-3 picks to hunt a great matchup. with 3 elite scoring stars it would take closer to 4 seconds and 1 pick. D'antoni is going to find ways to have an elite scorer on a scrub every time down the floor and do it with 16+ seconds left on the clock

Absolutely this. Harden is the best scorer in the league, and, IMO, the best scorer since Jordan. If KD and/or Kyrie end up having issues playing with him, trade them later, especially when they will be getting Harden for peanuts.

[NyCeEvO]

Pooch isn't a liar at all, but I doubt he's well connected enough to know this before any of the big names. Not taking it seriously.

Woj has already said that Harden is angling to come to the Nets. What we didn't/don't know is whether Marks has engaged with HOU to make a deal. Pooch is good with Nets internal stuff, so I would believe his report that the Rockets and Nets are actively engaged in talks.

I'd be surprised if it came together this quickly. But at the same time, I was surprised to see Covington get shipped off to POR without any prior indications that such a move was coming. Maybe the Rockets new GM just doesn't want to waste any time?

[DarkXaero]

Pooch isn't a liar at all, but I doubt he's well connected enough to know this before any of the big names. Not taking it seriously.

Woj has already said that Harden is angling to come to the Nets. What we didn't/don't know is whether Marks has engaged with HOU to make a deal. Pooch is good with Nets internal stuff, so I would believe his report that the Rockets and Nets are actively engaged in talks.

Actually Woj already said last night that Houston and Brooklyn have engaged in discussions but there have been "no substantial discussions" yet. So we already know that talks have happened, and that wouldn't be breaking news. There's a difference between that and saying that "Rockets and Nets have a verbal agreement in place to send Harden to Brooklyn".

[TheNetsFan]

Pooch isn't a liar at all, but I doubt he's well connected enough to know this before any of the big names. Not taking it seriously.

He was the first with KD & Kyrie.