Around the NBA, 2017-18 Season thread

[CalamityX12]

i think its a lock. they were #2 last season amd upgraded from Derozan to kawhi. even if things go wrong thats a 55 win team

nothing to assume they're a 55 win team yet. They have a new coach now, who knows how they'll develop.

they had a 60 win team and upgraded derozan to a top 3 player. they are a lock 55 win team

Is Kawaii going to play? how many games is he playing?

What's the new system going to be about? Iso? 3 n D? up tiempo? defensive?

they upgraded on a player but doesn't mean the team as whole could be upgraded. it remains to be seen.

If Leonard plays, shouldn't be a bad team but lets see what happens.

[TheNetsFan]

Drastically underrating Kahwi. All-NBA first team and All-NBA 1st team defense and DPOTY. thats as good as it gets.

even for a rental they underpaid. especially when you consider derozans contract

They're going to be in a position to make a serious run at it this year and even if he leaves, they blow it up and tank it up for a couple years and in 3 or 4 years when the remainder of the bad salary comes off their books they'll be in prime shape to contend when the current super teams are broken up and fizzling out, as long as they stayed the course.

I LOVE this move for the Raptors.

Probably best case we could have hoped for as well, if he leaves Toronto him and Kyrie might consider teaming up in Brooklyn.

If he leaves and goes elsewhere it's another Atlantic team a couple years behind our timeline.

This is spot on.

Except for the 3-4 years part. Toronto only has Powell & OG currently on the books for the 2020 offseason, for less than $15mil combined. I can definitely see them S&T'ing Kawhi while taking back a bad expiring contract with incentive (Deng, Gallinari).

[Claud]

Derozan is Inefficient volume scorer who shoots no 3s and plays poor defense. Kawhi when healthy is elite. There are levels.

For the Spurs it feels like they traded out of spite rather than logic. I'd want better assets to rebuild the team and not become at best an 6-8th seed in the west with Derozan as my best player.

For Raps POV I totally get it. Lowry/Derozan have peaked and they needed to try something different. At worst Kawhi leaves but you got rid of Derozan's monstrous contract and you can rebuild again.

[MrDollarBills]

i think its a lock. they were #2 last season amd upgraded from Derozan to kawhi. even if things go wrong thats a 55 win team

nothing to assume they're a 55 win team yet. They have a new coach now, who knows how they'll develop.

they had a 60 win team and upgraded derozan to a top 3 player. they are a lock 55 win team

You're assuming that Leonard will buy in. He is pissed right now.

[TheNetsFan]

Derozan is Inefficient volume scorer who shoots no 3s and plays poor defense. Kawhi when healthy is elite. There are levels.

For the Spurs it feels like they traded out of spite rather than logic. I'd want better assets to rebuild the team and not become at best an 6-8th seed in the west with Derozan as my best player.

For Raps POV I totally get it. Lowry/Derozan have peaked and they needed to try something different. At worst Kawhi leaves but you got rid of Derozan's monstrous contract and you can rebuild again.

Point to one confirmed option that was better for the Spurs. Nobody was offering value.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Spur fans are actually considering this a win because they sent Kawhi to Canada. Meanwhile the actual return for a prime superstar is awful.

This isn't an awful return by any means.

That "Prime Superstar" you're talking about played 9 games last season with a mysterious injury and is going to be a UFA in 10 months.

They got an All-NBA 2nd teamer in his prime, a former 9th overall pick and another 1st rounder.

I think it's actually a very good return.

Drastically underrating Kahwi. All-NBA first team and All-NBA 1st team defense and DPOTY. thats as good as it gets.

even for a rental they underpaid. especially when you consider derozans contract

Not when he has a injury thats been reported as potentially crippling. Not when he said he's going to the Lakers.

There's no guarantee he returns to that level and he didnt play at that level in 2017.

We can't live in fantasy Kawhi world, we have to live in the real world. Real world Kawhi is a very questionable asset.

Derozan's contract is perfectly fine. He's one of the best offensive players in the league and fits San Antonios midrange heavy offense.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Derozan is Inefficient volume scorer who shoots no 3s and plays poor defense. Kawhi when healthy is elite. There are levels.

For the Spurs it feels like they traded out of spite rather than logic. I'd want better assets to rebuild the team and not become at best an 6-8th seed in the west with Derozan as my best player.

For Raps POV I totally get it. Lowry/Derozan have peaked and they needed to try something different. At worst Kawhi leaves but you got rid of Derozan's monstrous contract and you can rebuild again.

People are really underrating Demar Derozan. He's not inefficient, he has a 56 TS% and is one of the best midrange scorers in the game who is now on the team that shoots the most midrange jumpers. He's legitimately one of the best scorers in the league and has made multiple All-NBA teams.

The Spurs haven't missed the playoffs in 20 years, theyre not just going to hit the reset button like any other team. Theyre going to try to rebuild while staying competetive and a 28 year old Derozan helps them do that. This off season has been a huge win for them IMO.

People need to understand that healthy Kawhi doesn't exist anymore. Hamstring injuries are a huge issue and his has been reported to be pretty bad. There's a very good chance that he's nowhere close to the player he was.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

nothing to assume they're a 55 win team yet. They have a new coach now, who knows how they'll develop.

they had a 60 win team and upgraded derozan to a top 3 player. they are a lock 55 win team

You're assuming that Leonard will buy in. He is pissed right now.

He's also assuming that Leonard will even play 60 games.

He's assuming that Leonard who has struggled with this injury for 2 years will even come back as a top 10 player.

[Papi_swav]

Spurs should of gutted that whole Raptors team, Raptors still kept alot of their role players. Spurs might as well had traded Kawhi for the Lakers youth package but it's clear they didn't want him on the west. I just hope Kawhi doesn't fall in love with Toronto and re signs with them.

[Antti22]

Spurs should of gutted that whole Raptors team, Raptors still kept alot of their role players. Spurs might as well had traded Kawhi for the Lakers youth package but it's clear they didn't want him on the west. I just hope Kawhi doesn't fall in love with Toronto and re signs with them.

Why would Spurs in their situation want a "youth package"? They have 2 or max 3 seasons left with hall of famer coach who does not want to go out teaching some young "potential" players and talk to media about "trusting the process". They needed a accomplished star who can help them now and use their 2-3 year window with hall of fame coach and decent team that made the playoffs in the west even without Kawhi last year.

It might be difficult for most people here to understand, but Spurs and Raptors made almost an ideal trade for both their situations. But I know most people around here are like Peter Griffin in Family Guy and prefer "the mystery box" over most things of accomplished value

[Prokorov]

nothing to assume they're a 55 win team yet. They have a new coach now, who knows how they'll develop.

they had a 60 win team and upgraded derozan to a top 3 player. they are a lock 55 win team

Is Kawaii going to play? how many games is he playing?

What's the new system going to be about? Iso? 3 n D? up tiempo? defensive?

they upgraded on a player but doesn't mean the team as whole could be upgraded. it remains to be seen.

If Leonard plays, shouldn't be a bad team but lets see what happens.

Leonard can fit into any system... and this isnt some minor upgrade. they are adding a top 3 player who shoots threes and plays elite defense. he has lebron level impact

[Prokorov]

nothing to assume they're a 55 win team yet. They have a new coach now, who knows how they'll develop.

they had a 60 win team and upgraded derozan to a top 3 player. they are a lock 55 win team

You're assuming that Leonard will buy in. He is pissed right now.

Leonard is the ultimate pro and high charecter guy. he will play 110% because he is a winner regardless of if he wants to be there. similar to jimmy butler in minnesota

[Prokorov]

they had a 60 win team and upgraded derozan to a top 3 player. they are a lock 55 win team

You're assuming that Leonard will buy in. He is pissed right now.

He's also assuming that Leonard will even play 60 games.

He's assuming that Leonard who has struggled with this injury for 2 years will even come back as a top 10 player.

half of kahwi leonard in 60 games is still an upgrade from derozan.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

You're assuming that Leonard will buy in. He is pissed right now.

He's also assuming that Leonard will even play 60 games.

He's assuming that Leonard who has struggled with this injury for 2 years will even come back as a top 10 player.

half of kahwi leonard in 60 games is still an upgrade from derozan.

Why are you such a hater? Demar Derozan is legitimately good.

[MrDollarBills]

Derozan is Inefficient volume scorer who shoots no 3s and plays poor defense. Kawhi when healthy is elite. There are levels.

For the Spurs it feels like they traded out of spite rather than logic. I'd want better assets to rebuild the team and not become at best an 6-8th seed in the west with Derozan as my best player.

For Raps POV I totally get it. Lowry/Derozan have peaked and they needed to try something different. At worst Kawhi leaves but you got rid of Derozan's monstrous contract and you can rebuild again.

Point to one confirmed option that was better for the Spurs. Nobody was offering value.

Yeah I was going to say, the Spurs got the best that they could out of this deal. We can criticize DeRozan all day but he's still an all star level talent.

No one was going to offer value for Leonard because he had basically made it clear he wanted to only play for the Lakers. That's why I thought it was madness to say that the Nets should give up every asset that they have to get him. No one else was crazy enough to do that. For Toronto, either they can convince him to stay or they let him walk and begin what will be a lengthy rebuilding process and they'll probably have a fire sale for assets.

[Prokorov]

He's also assuming that Leonard will even play 60 games.

He's assuming that Leonard who has struggled with this injury for 2 years will even come back as a top 10 player.

half of kahwi leonard in 60 games is still an upgrade from derozan.

Why are you such a hater? Demar Derozan is legitimately good.

and Kahwi leonard is legitimately great.

As good as derozan is offensivelly, kahwi is the better offensively player... then on top of that Kahwi is arguably the leagues best defender.

You boast about Derozans 56 TS%.... Kahwi was 60 TS% for his career, 39% from three for his career. Kahwi is 49/39/85 for his career.

kawhi is insanely underrated on the nets board. people talk about him like he is some fringe all-star when he is closer to lebron/durant level

[Papi_swav]

Spurs should of gutted that whole Raptors team, Raptors still kept alot of their role players. Spurs might as well had traded Kawhi for the Lakers youth package but it's clear they didn't want him on the west. I just hope Kawhi doesn't fall in love with Toronto and re signs with them.

Why would Spurs in their situation want a "youth package"? They have 2 or max 3 seasons left with hall of famer coach who does not want to go out teaching some young "potential" players and talk to media about "trusting the process". They needed a accomplished star who can help them now and use their 2-3 year window with hall of fame coach and decent team that made the playoffs in the west even without Kawhi last year.

It might be difficult for most people here to understand, but Spurs and Raptors made almost an ideal trade for both their situations. But I know most people around here are like Peter Griffin in Family Guy and prefer "the mystery box" over most things of accomplished value

Why do you think the Spurs have 2-3 years max? they aren't winning with their current team anyways so what's the point? to be a treadmill team? Is there a source saying Pop is going to retire in 3 years? where does this 2-3 year window come from?

[MrDollarBills]

they had a 60 win team and upgraded derozan to a top 3 player. they are a lock 55 win team

You're assuming that Leonard will buy in. He is pissed right now.

Leonard is the ultimate pro and high charecter guy. he will play 110% because he is a winner regardless of if he wants to be there. similar to jimmy butler in minnesota

I think there have to be legitimate concerns about him being professional and high character. The way that he handled this situation does not reflect well on him. You are a big fan of his, I get it, but I think there are valid questions about just how high his character is if he's getting shipped up north by the Spurs out of sheer spite.

[MrDollarBills]

half of kahwi leonard in 60 games is still an upgrade from derozan.

Why are you such a hater? Demar Derozan is legitimately good.

and Kahwi leonard is legitimately great.

As good as derozan is offensivelly, kahwi is the better offensively player... then on top of that Kahwi is arguably the leagues best defender.

You boast about Derozans 56 TS%.... Kahwi was 60 TS% for his career, 39% from three for his career. Kahwi is 49/39/85 for his career.

kawhi is insanely underrated on the nets board. people talk about him like he is some fringe all-star when he is closer to lebron/durant level

I don't think he's underrated on here at all. My take was that Sean Marks would be insane to trade every asset he has to get him for one season. You disagree and believe that the risk is worth it even if he walks (which he would). That doesn't mean that I think that Leonard is a fringe all star. He's an elite superstar when healthy. I'm not going to empty the bank though just to rent him. I would say the same about Lebron or Durant.

[Prokorov]

You're assuming that Leonard will buy in. He is pissed right now.

Leonard is the ultimate pro and high charecter guy. he will play 110% because he is a winner regardless of if he wants to be there. similar to jimmy butler in minnesota

I think there have to be legitimate concerns about him being professional and high character. The way that he handled this situation does not reflect well on him. You are a big fan of his, I get it, but I think there are valid questions about just how high his character is if he's getting shipped up north by the Spurs out of sheer spite.

He has handled this better then i can imagine anyone handling it. he has stayed out of the media and worked behind closed doors. and the spurs have screwed him over time and time again. the trust is gone. the spurs arent trading him out of spite, but out of need. they are spiting the lakers, not kawhi.

Kawhi is as good a guy you will come across in the NBA, and even implying he wouldnt give 110% there is completely baseless. It is completely shameful what the spurs did to him. and honestly if he crapped all over them in the media he probably would still be in the right. they potentially shortened the career of a 25 year old all-nba player and forced him to play despite what his own doctors said for the teams benefit. thats F'd up.