The Official Lin Net Thread

[brigadierjerry]

I'm a,knocks fan that comes in peace but I ask that question because if the nets get a decent amount of wins this coming season Lin seems to need players that work well with sum of the parts player than say a major star kind of like how the billips Wallace pistons were built or even how the Celtics of the past few years or even the Hawks. I can see depending on how nets do next few years Lin finishing his career with the nets.

[shakendfries]

One question I have if this team does well say win 40 games chemistry is good and everything the nets have a lot of cap space which players do you think whether free agent or trade that are borderline all star players or higher that would fit well with how Lin plays?It seems he works best with players that fit his style system. It will be interesting going forward the next few years

I'm not someone who was ever upset the Nets missed on Tyler Johnson and Allen Crabbe this summer. I feel like organizations should only overspend, within reason, on proven contributors. With that said, I would be intrigued if the Nets did whatever possible to obtain Milsap and Reddick in FA. They're both high character players who could play a positive impact in the development of the team's young players.

Milsap would be prefect next to Lopez, but he is probably a pipe dream unless something goes horribly wrong in Atlanta this season (which is possible with Dwight, but unlikely). Reddick would also be a huge backcourt upgrade - I wouldn't mind if the Nets overspent to acquire him as a FA. He already has a good relationship with Lin, which would bode well with regards to potential chemistry.

Brandon Knight feels like an example of a player who could come into his own under Atkinson. He's 25 but has some shake + quickness + the shooting stroke to develop into a JR Smith type scorer. He's not a world beater by any means, but seems like a decent prospect as an off ball guard that could pair nicely with Lin. I'm not sure about fit- I could be intrigued by trading Bojan to get him, but to be honest - he's not a huge upgrade over the dynamic Kilpatrick provides.


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[bballfan1234]

D’Antoni and Carmelo Anthony never hit it off, with the end being the star’s refusal to let Lin run the offense. D’Antoni alluded to that conflict in a recent Vertical podcast but cared not to revisit it before facing Anthony’s Knicks. “That’s a long time ago,’’ D’Antoni said. “A lot of stuff has gone on. Life goes on. I’m not going back there. I’m good.’’ On the podcast, D’Antoni said, “It was there, it’s real. “The problem that we had was that for Jeremy to be really good, which he was, he had to play a certain way. It was hard for [Anthony] to adapt.’’
– via New York Post

Dont know if this has been posted. Many Lin fans speculated Carmelo wanted Lin out of Knicks. Now some rumors have came to light.

[shakendfries]

D’Antoni and Carmelo Anthony never hit it off, with the end being the star’s refusal to let Lin run the offense. D’Antoni alluded to that conflict in a recent Vertical podcast but cared not to revisit it before facing Anthony’s Knicks. “That’s a long time ago,’’ D’Antoni said. “A lot of stuff has gone on. Life goes on. I’m not going back there. I’m good.’’ On the podcast, D’Antoni said, “It was there, it’s real. “The problem that we had was that for Jeremy to be really good, which he was, he had to play a certain way. It was hard for [Anthony] to adapt.’’
– via New York Post

Dont know if this has been posted. Many Lin fans speculated Carmelo wanted Lin out of Knicks. Now some rumors have came to light.

While Lin has developed more as a player from that point, they had conflicting motivations. Lin was fighting to be an NBA player and Melo was the team leader & captain.

I guess Robert Horry tells it best

I wasn’t born ice cold. In fact, I was probably one of the only players in NBA history who got traded for not shooting the ball enough. When I got drafted by the Houston Rockets in ’92, I was over the moon. You’re telling me I get to go play with my idol Hakeem Olajuwon? The Dream? I couldn’t have been more excited. First practice, every time I got the ball on the wing, Dream was calling for it. What would you do? This is a living legend. He was unstoppable in the post. So I threw it into Dream. And I kept throwing it into Dream the entire season. That first year, I was just happy to be there. I was deferring to everybody.

The next season, we start 15-0. We tie the NBA record for consecutive wins against the Knicks at Madison Square Garden, the mecca of basketball. The whole city was so pissed that they did something I’ve never seen before in my career. The crew at the airport made us wait like two hours at the gate — no announcement, no updates, nothing. I swear to God, they had us sitting there for no good reason other than we just whooped the Knicks. We didn’t get into Atlanta until 5 a.m. and the Hawks beat us by 25 that night.



After that, we just kept on cruising. We didn’t lose our second game until two days before Christmas against the Nuggets. We were 22-2. I show up at the Christmas party that night and Hakeem is pacing around. He comes up to me — no expression — and waves for me to follow him out to the porch. “Ro-bert, come with me for a second.”

Inside my head, I’m like, **** Dream, it’s cold outside. What the hell could we possibly have to talk about so bad? We’re 22-2. But I say, “Sure, Dream.”

We go outside and he looks me dead in the eye and says, “Do you care if we win or lose?”

I look back at him dead in the eye and say, “Dude, you probably don’t understand this, but I care more than anyone on this team. I hate losing.”

“You do not show it in your emotions, Ro-bert.”

This was one of the defining moments of my career. I’m getting called out by my idol. I could have tucked my tail between my legs. I decided against it.

“Well,” I said. “You don’t show your emotions either!”

Two grown men standing on a porch talking about their emotions. I’ll never forget him cracking a smile and laughing.

“Good point,” he said. “Let’s go inside.”

After that day, my mentality was, **** it. I’m shooting. I’m playing Robert Horry ball.

From that day on, we became great friends. I would yell at him when I thought he was messing up. Nobody else would do that. But I understood him. He was the kind of guy who would challenge you even when you were sitting pretty in first place. That’s the thing that a lot of basketball fans don’t understand. When a team wins a Championship, this picture gets painted that everything was perfect — that all the guys are best friends and the coach is a genius. The reality is always way more complicated.

A month after that Christmas party, I got a call from my agent telling me I was being traded to Detroit for Sean Elliott. The only explanation was “Houston wants more scoring.” It’s the middle of February. It’s snowing, cold as hell. I got off the plane and I’ve never been so depressed in my life. Matt Bullard was involved in the deal too, and I remember we were all dressed and getting ready to go out for warmups when somebody from the Pistons organization grabbed my shoulder and said, “Hold up. Sean hasn’t passed his physical yet. We have to hold you out as a precaution.” They wanted us to sit on the bench, but I thought that would be weird, so I asked them to let us sit in the owner’s box.

I don’t remember much after that. I got a call from my mom after the game. She was all concerned, like “Boy, were you drunk?” The TV camera had cut to me in the box and I guess I was practically slumped over. I’ve never been much of a drinker, but I was so hurt and disappointed that Houston traded me that I had a few beers. The next day, I got a call from my agent saying, “They found a problem with Sean’s kidney. The trade is off. Ya’ll are going back to Houston.”

Me and Matt jumped in that car and drove to the airport so fast that I don’t even think we hit the brakes when we pulled into the parking lot. We did a ninja-roll out of the car and onto that plane. That car might still be rolling somewhere in the midwest. After that day, my mentality was, **** it. I’m shooting. I’m playing Robert Horry ball. Now you read the history and all people know is that we won the title that season. Then we won it again in ’95. They know me as Big Shot Bob. But the reality is that if it wasn’t for a medical emergency, I might have been known as the depressed dude slumped over in the press box. There are so many winding paths and forks in the road in this game.

There's is a fine line that role players must tow on teams with All-Star talent. The proven NBA players have the say when it comes to getting their shots and with good cause. During Lin's slump when Linsanity died down and came back to reality, he couldn't shoot at all when driven away from his dominat hand. An all-star isn't going to sit back and watch when a player who, at that point was barely NBA talent, chuck up shots and "develop" when the team is trying to make noise in the playoffs.

There's a reason the Knicks won 54 games without Lin, and had Felton at the point.

I like Lin's game. He has a level of humility and dedication to the game that has allowed him to have a long NBA career. However, as a player who has had the chance to play with some great players, in Melo, Harden, and Kobe, there's no denying that he had room to grow as a player in those situations where the team was in a position to "win now". It would be foolish to paint Carmelo as a villain. They're both talented players who were at different points in their careers. And while their situation didn't work out between them, it's not anyone's fault. Durant and Westbrook didn't work out, but you can't say either are villains.

[Roy Tarpley]

I wouldn't call Melo a villain. But I think he was shortsighted to not nurture and harness the momentum of Linsanity. I'm not surprised that Melo will never come close to winning a championship. Same thing with Harden. Not a villain, but I'm not sure he'll get close to the finals with him as the main alpha. It's not a talent question -- Melo and Harden are two of the most talented players in the league. It's more a leadership/teammate issue.

Kobe is almost in the same boat but he's one of the top NBA player ever, and he had the fortune of playing with Shaq, and prime Gasol.

[shakendfries]

I wouldn't call Melo a villain. But I think he was shortsighted to not nurture and harness the momentum of Linsanity. I'm not surprised that Melo will never come close to winning a championship. Same thing with Harden. Not a villain, but I'm not sure he'll get close to the finals with him as the main alpha. It's not a talent question -- Melo and Harden are two of the most talented players in the league. It's more a leadership/teammate issue.

Kobe is almost in the same boat but he's one of the top NBA player ever, and he had the fortune of playing with Shaq, and prime Gasol.

Hmm...I'm not sure if you can blame Harden not reaching the finals in his career because way he plays. Golden State is the Showtime Lakers of this era. And I think you might be downplaying what it takes to win a championship.

Dirk had the fortune of playing with Steve Nash but they didn't win anything.
Durant had the fortune of playing with Westbrook but they didn't win anything.

Talent is big part of winning it all, but so is chemistry and luck. Kobe is the second greatest SG in NBA history, but having great teammates that were able to compliment his skillset helped him win it all.

Linsanity lasted a few games before he came back to earth and put up moderate stats - he wasn't all that great after those few weeks. When he came back to earth, his performance revealed wasn't a good fit next to Melo, Harden, or Kobe. Not that Lin isn't talented, but just because he's a PG doesn't mean he had the same strengths as Patrick Beverly and Raymond Felton.

When Bojan went off for 40 against the 76ers last season and had a few good games, I don't know if you'd be first in line clamoring for the Nets to give him $25m and make him the franchise cornerstone.

[bballfan1234]

I like Lin's game. He has a level of humility and dedication to the game that has allowed him to have a long NBA career. However, as a player who has had the chance to play with some great players, in Melo, Harden, and Kobe, there's no denying that he had room to grow as a player in those situations where the team was in a position to "win now". It would be foolish to paint Carmelo as a villain. They're both talented players who were at different points in their careers. And while their situation didn't work out between them, it's not anyone's fault. Durant and Westbrook didn't work out, but you can't say either are villains.[/quote]


I agree with your points. I dont even think Melo was a villain. Just being human. Some unproven kid/nobody taking over his team when he is the top dog? No way! Lin's game is much more refined and solid than his lucky breakout during Linsanity. It is great that the Nets is giving him a chance to start and run the offense. Looking forward to the start of the season!!
Go Nets Go!!!

[tonman]

There's is a fine line that role players must tow on teams with All-Star talent. The proven NBA players have the say when it comes to getting their shots and with good cause. During Lin's slump when Linsanity died down and came back to reality, he couldn't shoot at all when driven away from his dominat hand. An all-star isn't going to sit back and watch when a player who, at that point was barely NBA talent, chuck up shots and "develop" when the team is trying to make noise in the playoffs.

There's a reason the Knicks won 54 games without Lin, and had Felton at the point.

I like Lin's game. He has a level of humility and dedication to the game that has allowed him to have a long NBA career. However, as a player who has had the chance to play with some great players, in Melo, Harden, and Kobe, there's no denying that he had room to grow as a player in those situations where the team was in a position to "win now". It would be foolish to paint Carmelo as a villain. They're both talented players who were at different points in their careers. And while their situation didn't work out between them, it's not anyone's fault. Durant and Westbrook didn't work out, but you can't say either are villains.

note that the knicks were not going to make the playoffs until those two weeks.

also note that the knicks also had Jason Kidd on the team the next year. after that 54 win season, it has been downhill ever since even for felton. same thing happened after Lin left Houston, and Houston made it to the WCF. last year they struggled to get to the playoffs. it's not that Lin is so great. it's that you don't improve your team simply because the "superstar" refuses to change. there's no way Durant will fit in with GS unless the team makes a concerted effort to fit him in. doesn't mean they change the way the play but they would have to work to make things fit.

was it easy for kevin love to fit? or is he just a good player playing on a bad team in minny all this time? just because Carmelo and Lin didn't "fit" doesn't mean more than that. doesn't mean Lin couldn't develop into a very good player. same with his time with Harden.

the story about Horry is true but it's not deferring to the superstar that is the point of the story. Hakeem every time down the court will want the ball. He wanted Horry to do his thing also and that is to shoot. the difference with Melo and Lin is where the offense starts/goes through. Hakeem doesn't bring the ball up and even though he's a great passing big man, he needs to get the ball where he can succeed in the post for scoring or facilitating. if you take the ball out of Melo's or even Lin's hands you limit what they do each possession but that doesn't mean that you can't make it work if you are willing. harden had some atrocious shooting games and the rockets would still manage to win because they had guys like Lin and Parsons who could facilitate. felton was a great facilitator but when his offense went south, his affectiveness went down also. Beverley doesn't really facilitate so when his 3 pointer goes south, he doesn't provide much offensively which when harden has a bad game, there wasn't anyone to step up from the facilitator role last season. it will be interesting to see what happens if harden goes down or rests.

[shakendfries]

There's is a fine line that role players must tow on teams with All-Star talent. The proven NBA players have the say when it comes to getting their shots and with good cause. During Lin's slump when Linsanity died down and came back to reality, he couldn't shoot at all when driven away from his dominat hand. An all-star isn't going to sit back and watch when a player who, at that point was barely NBA talent, chuck up shots and "develop" when the team is trying to make noise in the playoffs.

There's a reason the Knicks won 54 games without Lin, and had Felton at the point.

I like Lin's game. He has a level of humility and dedication to the game that has allowed him to have a long NBA career. However, as a player who has had the chance to play with some great players, in Melo, Harden, and Kobe, there's no denying that he had room to grow as a player in those situations where the team was in a position to "win now". It would be foolish to paint Carmelo as a villain. They're both talented players who were at different points in their careers. And while their situation didn't work out between them, it's not anyone's fault. Durant and Westbrook didn't work out, but you can't say either are villains.

note that the knicks were not going to make the playoffs until those two weeks.

also note that the knicks also had Jason Kidd on the team the next year. after that 54 win season, it has been downhill ever since even for felton. same thing happened after Lin left Houston, and Houston made it to the WCF. last year they struggled to get to the playoffs. it's not that Lin is so great. it's that you don't improve your team simply because the "superstar" refuses to change. there's no way Durant will fit in with GS unless the team makes a concerted effort to fit him in. doesn't mean they change the way the play but they would have to work to make things fit.

was it easy for kevin love to fit? or is he just a good player playing on a bad team in minny all this time? just because Carmelo and Lin didn't "fit" doesn't mean more than that. doesn't mean Lin couldn't develop into a very good player. same with his time with Harden.

the story about Horry is true but it's not deferring to the superstar that is the point of the story. Hakeem every time down the court will want the ball. He wanted Horry to do his thing also and that is to shoot. the difference with Melo and Lin is where the offense starts/goes through. Hakeem doesn't bring the ball up and even though he's a great passing big man, he needs to get the ball where he can succeed in the post for scoring or facilitating. if you take the ball out of Melo's or even Lin's hands you limit what they do each possession but that doesn't mean that you can't make it work if you are willing. harden had some atrocious shooting games and the rockets would still manage to win because they had guys like Lin and Parsons who could facilitate. felton was a great facilitator but when his offense went south, his affectiveness went down also. Beverley doesn't really facilitate so when his 3 pointer goes south, he doesn't provide much offensively which when harden has a bad game, there wasn't anyone to step up from the facilitator role last season. it will be interesting to see what happens if harden goes down or rests.

I am not sure you can say that the Rockets or the Knicks were better with Lin, since both of these teams accomplished more once Lin was off their roster. No matter how you explain it, Lin's strengths didn't fit well with the skills needed for those teams to get the most out of the rest of their respective rosters. In addition to that, Lin still had a lot more room to grow and develop his skillset as a player early into his career. It's a little biased to claim that Melo or Harden aren't willing to work with other talented players, especially since Melo has gotten along just fine with Kristaps Porzingis - a prospect with a much higher ceiling than Lin, and Harden leads his team in nearly every statistical category, including assists.

When you're on a team with an all-star, it's the role player's job to adjust to the team's greatest talents, not the other way around. Horry's story is an explanation of how he learned to adjust to Hakeem, and playing along other talents by finding the courage to make his presence and value felt.

Kevin Love was absolutely a good stats on a bad team player in Minny - they didn't make the postseason once. He was no different from Demarcus Cousins, who are both talented players but their worth is overestimated by their inflated stats. And nobody talks about Lebron adjusting to Kevin Love- that would be preposterous. Instead, people wonder whether Love can adjust his game to fit with Lebron and Kyrie the way Bosh was able. And Bosh is a much better player in Toronto than Kevin Love ever was in Minnesota, and even he had to adjust to Lebron. Wade is a hall of famer who had to adjust to Lebron.

I'm a fan of Lin, and I'm glad he's on the Nets, but to cast Harden and Melo as villains because Lin wasn't able to thrive on their teams ignores the fact that Lin had a lot of room to grow as a player himself in those situations. I am glad he has the opportunity to play for the Nets and a player in Brook who allows Lin to play to his strengths in the PnR. He is in a much better position to succeed in Brooklyn under Kenny Atkinson and I am excited to see how it works out.

[TinmanZBoy]

Lin played reasonably well with both Melo and Harden... it is just the expectation was so high, people (fans or non-fans) were expecting Linsanity, which was impossible if the ball not in lin's hands a lot... Lin was still solid, but obviously not at his best...
It's really nobody's fault...it is the life of being a NBA player, you play into your role over time

[steady]

There's is a fine line that role players must tow on teams with All-Star talent. The proven NBA players have the say when it comes to getting their shots and with good cause. During Lin's slump when Linsanity died down and came back to reality, he couldn't shoot at all when driven away from his dominat hand. An all-star isn't going to sit back and watch when a player who, at that point was barely NBA talent, chuck up shots and "develop" when the team is trying to make noise in the playoffs.

There's a reason the Knicks won 54 games without Lin, and had Felton at the point.

I like Lin's game. He has a level of humility and dedication to the game that has allowed him to have a long NBA career. However, as a player who has had the chance to play with some great players, in Melo, Harden, and Kobe, there's no denying that he had room to grow as a player in those situations where the team was in a position to "win now". It would be foolish to paint Carmelo as a villain. They're both talented players who were at different points in their careers. And while their situation didn't work out between them, it's not anyone's fault. Durant and Westbrook didn't work out, but you can't say either are villains.

note that the knicks were not going to make the playoffs until those two weeks.

also note that the knicks also had Jason Kidd on the team the next year. after that 54 win season, it has been downhill ever since even for felton. same thing happened after Lin left Houston, and Houston made it to the WCF. last year they struggled to get to the playoffs. it's not that Lin is so great. it's that you don't improve your team simply because the "superstar" refuses to change. there's no way Durant will fit in with GS unless the team makes a concerted effort to fit him in. doesn't mean they change the way the play but they would have to work to make things fit.

was it easy for kevin love to fit? or is he just a good player playing on a bad team in minny all this time? just because Carmelo and Lin didn't "fit" doesn't mean more than that. doesn't mean Lin couldn't develop into a very good player. same with his time with Harden.

the story about Horry is true but it's not deferring to the superstar that is the point of the story. Hakeem every time down the court will want the ball. He wanted Horry to do his thing also and that is to shoot. the difference with Melo and Lin is where the offense starts/goes through. Hakeem doesn't bring the ball up and even though he's a great passing big man, he needs to get the ball where he can succeed in the post for scoring or facilitating. if you take the ball out of Melo's or even Lin's hands you limit what they do each possession but that doesn't mean that you can't make it work if you are willing. harden had some atrocious shooting games and the rockets would still manage to win because they had guys like Lin and Parsons who could facilitate. felton was a great facilitator but when his offense went south, his affectiveness went down also. Beverley doesn't really facilitate so when his 3 pointer goes south, he doesn't provide much offensively which when harden has a bad game, there wasn't anyone to step up from the facilitator role last season. it will be interesting to see what happens if harden goes down or rests.

I am not sure you can say that the Rockets or the Knicks were better with Lin, since both of these teams accomplished more once Lin was off their roster. No matter how you explain it, Lin's strengths didn't fit well with the skills needed for those teams to get the most out of the rest of their respective rosters. In addition to that, Lin still had a lot more room to grow and develop his skillset as a player early into his career. It's a little biased to claim that Melo or Harden aren't willing to work with other talented players, especially since Melo has gotten along just fine with Kristaps Porzingis - a prospect with a much higher ceiling than Lin, and Harden leads his team in nearly every statistical category, including assists.

When you're on a team with an all-star, it's the role player's job to adjust to the team's greatest talents, not the other way around. Horry's story is an explanation of how he learned to adjust to Hakeem, and playing along other talents by finding the courage to make his presence and value felt.

Kevin Love was absolutely a good stats on a bad team player in Minny - they didn't make the postseason once. He was no different from Demarcus Cousins, who are both talented players but their worth is overestimated by their inflated stats. And nobody talks about Lebron adjusting to Kevin Love- that would be preposterous. Instead, people wonder whether Love can adjust his game to fit with Lebron and Kyrie the way Bosh was able. And Bosh is a much better player in Toronto than Kevin Love ever was in Minnesota, and even he had to adjust to Lebron. Wade is a hall of famer who had to adjust to Lebron.

I'm a fan of Lin, and I'm glad he's on the Nets, but to cast Harden and Melo as villains because Lin wasn't able to thrive on their teams ignores the fact that Lin had a lot of room to grow as a player himself in those situations. I am glad he has the opportunity to play for the Nets and a player in Brook who allows Lin to play to his strengths in the PnR. He is in a much better position to succeed in Brooklyn under Kenny Atkinson and I am excited to see how it works out.

No question that Lin had room to grow. But it is also not clear to me that the Knicks and Rockets were better off without him. They both did better the first year after he left, but they both also struggled after that, and were especially lacking in PG/playmaking skills.

Rockets won 45 and 54 games with him. The first year after he left they won 56 games. The following year (last year) they won only 41 games.

Knicks won 36 games (out of 76 in lockout shortened season) in year Lin played for them. The first year after Lin left they won 54 games. But the three seasons after that, they won 37, 17, and 32 games, respectively.

Not saying these declines were due to Lin's absence, there were a lot of factors; but I also think it's not right to say he was holding either team back. Just my opinion, but that's not the way it seemed.

[tonman]

There's is a fine line that role players must tow on teams with All-Star talent. The proven NBA players have the say when it comes to getting their shots and with good cause. During Lin's slump when Linsanity died down and came back to reality, he couldn't shoot at all when driven away from his dominat hand. An all-star isn't going to sit back and watch when a player who, at that point was barely NBA talent, chuck up shots and "develop" when the team is trying to make noise in the playoffs.

There's a reason the Knicks won 54 games without Lin, and had Felton at the point.

I like Lin's game. He has a level of humility and dedication to the game that has allowed him to have a long NBA career. However, as a player who has had the chance to play with some great players, in Melo, Harden, and Kobe, there's no denying that he had room to grow as a player in those situations where the team was in a position to "win now". It would be foolish to paint Carmelo as a villain. They're both talented players who were at different points in their careers. And while their situation didn't work out between them, it's not anyone's fault. Durant and Westbrook didn't work out, but you can't say either are villains.

note that the knicks were not going to make the playoffs until those two weeks.

also note that the knicks also had Jason Kidd on the team the next year. after that 54 win season, it has been downhill ever since even for felton. same thing happened after Lin left Houston, and Houston made it to the WCF. last year they struggled to get to the playoffs. it's not that Lin is so great. it's that you don't improve your team simply because the "superstar" refuses to change. there's no way Durant will fit in with GS unless the team makes a concerted effort to fit him in. doesn't mean they change the way the play but they would have to work to make things fit.

was it easy for kevin love to fit? or is he just a good player playing on a bad team in minny all this time? just because Carmelo and Lin didn't "fit" doesn't mean more than that. doesn't mean Lin couldn't develop into a very good player. same with his time with Harden.

the story about Horry is true but it's not deferring to the superstar that is the point of the story. Hakeem every time down the court will want the ball. He wanted Horry to do his thing also and that is to shoot. the difference with Melo and Lin is where the offense starts/goes through. Hakeem doesn't bring the ball up and even though he's a great passing big man, he needs to get the ball where he can succeed in the post for scoring or facilitating. if you take the ball out of Melo's or even Lin's hands you limit what they do each possession but that doesn't mean that you can't make it work if you are willing. harden had some atrocious shooting games and the rockets would still manage to win because they had guys like Lin and Parsons who could facilitate. felton was a great facilitator but when his offense went south, his affectiveness went down also. Beverley doesn't really facilitate so when his 3 pointer goes south, he doesn't provide much offensively which when harden has a bad game, there wasn't anyone to step up from the facilitator role last season. it will be interesting to see what happens if harden goes down or rests.

I am not sure you can say that the Rockets or the Knicks were better with Lin, since both of these teams accomplished more once Lin was off their roster. No matter how you explain it, Lin's strengths didn't fit well with the skills needed for those teams to get the most out of the rest of their respective rosters. In addition to that, Lin still had a lot more room to grow and develop his skillset as a player early into his career. It's a little biased to claim that Melo or Harden aren't willing to work with other talented players, especially since Melo has gotten along just fine with Kristaps Porzingis - a prospect with a much higher ceiling than Lin, and Harden leads his team in nearly every statistical category, including assists.

When you're on a team with an all-star, it's the role player's job to adjust to the team's greatest talents, not the other way around. Horry's story is an explanation of how he learned to adjust to Hakeem, and playing along other talents by finding the courage to make his presence and value felt.

Kevin Love was absolutely a good stats on a bad team player in Minny - they didn't make the postseason once. He was no different from Demarcus Cousins, who are both talented players but their worth is overestimated by their inflated stats. And nobody talks about Lebron adjusting to Kevin Love- that would be preposterous. Instead, people wonder whether Love can adjust his game to fit with Lebron and Kyrie the way Bosh was able. And Bosh is a much better player in Toronto than Kevin Love ever was in Minnesota, and even he had to adjust to Lebron. Wade is a hall of famer who had to adjust to Lebron.

I'm a fan of Lin, and I'm glad he's on the Nets, but to cast Harden and Melo as villains because Lin wasn't able to thrive on their teams ignores the fact that Lin had a lot of room to grow as a player himself in those situations. I am glad he has the opportunity to play for the Nets and a player in Brook who allows Lin to play to his strengths in the PnR. He is in a much better position to succeed in Brooklyn under Kenny Atkinson and I am excited to see how it works out.

I disagree simply on the notion that one superstar really doesn't get you much. You almost need super teams or teams that play team ball. Melo and an injured amare and Jr Smith does not mean you have a super team and two of those guys aren't team first. So no you don't fit in with the superstar. You fit in with the offensive scheme.

[TinmanZBoy]

^losing Lin made neither team better...
basically Lin could do what felton did to the Knicks and might be better... the Knicks' run under Woodson started after MDA left, Lin played solid under Woodson for a short period and the injury happened... they still run a lot MDA sets with Lin or Felton, Lin and Melo's chemistry was actually getting better... the Knicks' offense really flourished after Stud's injury and Melo played the 4, exactly MDA's small stuff, that season Knicks broke the 3 points shots record... MDA had the vision, but did not have the interpersonal skills to make his stars to buy in... With Melo back, you would not expect linsanity again, but Lin would have been a plus for the Knicks if he stayed, and he is YOUNGER... everybody thought Lin would have been back to the Knicks, even Daryl Morey who structured the poison bill thought getting Lin was still a long shot...
Losing Lin and Parsons made the Rockets offense worse, the team depth was actually worse...Lin and Parsons were two major playmakers for them, they could relieve Harden's burden on offense... Harden had a all time great season, carrying the team the whole season...they got lucky to be in the West Final though, the Clippers could have dispatched them easily if they did not choke big time, that season was a bit fool's gold, Morey was short-sighted to simply bring back the whole squad, and did not solve the issue of lacking playmakers and shooters... Lawson was a big disappointment...

[shakendfries]

Tinman's reaching extra hard rn

[TinmanZBoy]

:noway: Tinman's reaching extra hard rn

thanks...

[JohnStockton]

With regard to all of the gauging on Lin's impact... I think it's pretty ridiculous to gauge a player's worth based on how his former teams have done without him... I mean, if you left your job and they did better without you, does that mean you weren't important? Not necessarily. If they did better without you, it probably meant they got some other good folks to come in. If they did worse, they got worse folks to come in--but regardless of which case it is--their success or failure has more to do with the choices they made after parting with you, rather than your individual absence (duh, let's not be conceited).

That being said, the best way to gauge a player's impact is simply to give them credit for their work-- and outside of his rookie year--Lin has been a positive addition to all of the teams he's been on. That is obviously what is the most indicative of his worth.

Also on a specific note as a Knicks fan, I'd say it's pretty clear in hindsight that the 54-win Knicks season had a lot to do with that roster having all-time level vet presences in JKidd/Sheed/Camby that kept that team together. Outside of those three guys, the Knicks had basically the same roster the next year, but they tanked and everybody quit on each other. Just bringing this up as a specific example against trying to gauge players values based on team records, because JKidd/Sheed/Camby's impact far outweighed any truths that could be taken from a straight Lin/Felton comparison. In this situation, using the Knicks' collective record to base a comparison between the point guards makes very little sense [when the collective makeup of the roster was the biggest reason for the 54-wins, not specifically the presence of Felton or the absence of Lin].

[JohnStockton]

On a related topic, I will always be curious to think about how Lin would have turned out if he had stayed with the Knicks. The summer after Linsanity, they brought in JKidd specifically to mentor him, and that would've been such a great pairing for him--since vet leadership was absolutely what he needed.

Instead, he ended up in Houston on the youngest team in the league, which had no vet leadership. In that system, he ran and gunned and (imo) he didn't pick up that much nuance in his game at all, because it was such a jackfest.

Then, the Lakers year turned out to be a wasted year. Before the season, you would think he would've had Nash's brain to pick, but Nash was MIA for the entire season after his injury/retirement. Maybe you thought he could've tried picking Kobe's brain, but mamba got hurt early and was also MIA for like 70% of the season. They actually started referring to Lin as a vet in LA, which was just weird. 26 year old vet? This dude still needed real vet guidance.

Charlotte happened next, and Jeremy mentioned somewhere that he might've learned the most there out of all his stops. Sounds kind of weird to think that a player learned the most out of his 6th season--but it makes sense if you consider his previous stops lacked good coaching and experienced vets. Probably figured things out on his own for the most part.

And now, I think Lin has mostly figured out the mental side of playing well consistently, but I can't help think that if he had someone like Kidd to guide him, he would've gotten to this point a lot sooner.

[steady]

When I think about the coaches Lin had between Mike D'Antoni and Steve Clifford, ..... Mike Woodson, Byron Scott and Kevin McHale ... I smh

[ChokeFasncists]

Real disturbing, glad to know that Atkinson is known as one of the best developmental coaches and had worked very well with Lin during Linsanity.

During the tough years, at least he learned some moves from Harden and did get a tiny bit of guidance from Nash and Kobe.

Stephen Silas probably helped a lot last season as well, his D improved soooooo much.

Hope having KD's shooting coach and the guy who played PG under Sloan around would help as well.

[Paradise]

I think getting away from some of these divas who take offense to someone of his statute commanding more media attention than them is going to help him alot. I'd venture to say that is what led for him to have such a great season in Charlotte as well. A team without a ball hogging diva.

We now know Melo and Amare was a little salty about Linsanity. We all know Harden/Howard weren't good leaders and the Nash/Laker marriage wasn't going well while Kobe was injury prone and isn't the positive leader type at all and can be a diva himself.

Going to Charlotte definitely did wonders for his psychological conditioning and our roster makeup isn't that different to the same personnel he had in Charlotte.


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