2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[Prokorov]

With the East losing talent left and right (Millsap, Teaue and PG13), I wonder if we could be in the PO race with a couple quality signings..say Porter and Olynyk.

Sign and trade for Porter so the Wiz don't match (Booker, RHJ).
If Boston signs Hayward they have to renounce KO.

Dump Hamilton (shouldn't be hard)

Lin / Dinwiddie / Goodwin
Russell / Whitehead / Kilpatrick
LeVert / Harris
Porter / KO / Acy
Mozgov / Allen / Nicholson

certainly goes from no shot to a punchers chance.... but still so many young guys, so many new pieces, and so little ability to sustain injury and keep winning. even if the young guys play well... its still tough to win with them. especially if kenny lets them play through struggles to get max development out of them.

look at last years wolves.

Towns/Wiggins both had big years. 26/12 for towns 24/5/4 for wiggins. towns arguably a top 15 player. Dunn, Dieng, Rubio, a solid coach.

they finished 31-51. i know thats in the west but they were just 12-19 vs the east as well.

[Prokorov]

Want Valanciunas for free?

no. we parted with lopez to get more modern bigs. bringing in JV doesnt make sense unless you want to take mozgov and nicholson

[Prokorov]

Want Valanciunas for free?

We'll give you Mozgov and Nicholson

JV for Nicholson might be do-able... Raptors need to cut like 14 million in salary I believe. Difference between Valanciunas and Nicholson + dumping Joseph would be enough

We could also do Carroll for Nicholson if Nets actually prefer that. Actually that seems like a pretty decent deal. Maybe a 2nd included would seal it

Carroll/Nogiera/2nd

for

Nicholson

done deal.

[Rockice_24]

Yeah i got what you were saying... sorry if my responses werent clear. i agree that is our situation and can see value in going over the cap before our guys are due extensions... its just dangerous to do it without singing the right guys or you start to look like the blazers.

Cousins... yeah no doubt. but once you get into that grey are off KCp/Porter/THj its starts to get tricky.

and i wasnt saying it cant be done, and the cap cant be managed properly.... this all stemmed from me saying "it causes tough deisions down the road" and you replying seemingly like you didnt think so.

we'll see. overpaying porter is much less an issue if next year we sign a B tier free agent. gotta get that guy though.

Listen do I want to pay a role player 25 M, no but you are correct with the tough decisions regarding Rus and RHJ in two years.

I would rather max out the cap on Porter and Cousins next year (totally a what if scenario of coarse). Our time line is short so the clock is ticking. If we don't use it this year we better hope that two stars want to team up in BK next year because once the extensions kick in for those two guys we lose all our leverage and overall have a crap squad to boot.

I want to watch this year with Lin, Rus, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Moz etc
and next year
Rus, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Cousins.

After 2019 you have a good idea what that team can be and if they look like a first round exit at best you blow it up and rebuild but at least over the next 2 years we'll be attempting to win. My point is Porter will than have 2 years left and Cousins will be the longest contract at 3 years. In 2020 you can let everyone walk, move Porter and tank again. That time table fits well with our lack of picks next year.

I hope Porter signs. He has upside to grow with our young backcourt and that squad fits perfectly with Cousins in 2018.

[Prokorov]

Yeah i got what you were saying... sorry if my responses werent clear. i agree that is our situation and can see value in going over the cap before our guys are due extensions... its just dangerous to do it without singing the right guys or you start to look like the blazers.

Cousins... yeah no doubt. but once you get into that grey are off KCp/Porter/THj its starts to get tricky.

and i wasnt saying it cant be done, and the cap cant be managed properly.... this all stemmed from me saying "it causes tough deisions down the road" and you replying seemingly like you didnt think so.

we'll see. overpaying porter is much less an issue if next year we sign a B tier free agent. gotta get that guy though.

Listen do I want to pay a role player 25 M, no but you are correct with the tough decisions regarding Rus and RHJ in two years.

I would rather max out the cap on Porter and Cousins next year (totally a what if scenario of coarse). Our time line is short so the clock is ticking. If we don't use it this year we better hope that two stars want to team up in BK next year because once the extensions kick in for those two guys we lose all our leverage and overall have a crap squad to boot.

I want to watch this year with Lin, Rus, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Moz etc
and next year
Rus, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Cousins.

After 2019 you have a good idea what that team can be and if they look like a first round exit at best you blow it up and rebuild but at least over the next 2 years we'll be attempting to win. My point is Porter will than have 2 years left and Cousins will be the longest contract at 3 years. In 2020 you can let everyone walk, move Porter and tank again. That time table fits well with our lack of picks next year.

I hope Porter signs. He has upside to grow with our young backcourt and that squad fits perfectly with Cousins in 2018.

yeah... love cousins.. no secret. if he would come here... if they would want him with his attitude? hard to say.

im 50/50 on porter. if we got him id talk myself into it.

[Trader_Joe]

With the East losing talent left and right (Millsap, Teaue and PG13), I wonder if we could be in the PO race with a couple quality signings..say Porter and Olynyk.

Sign and trade for Porter so the Wiz don't match (Booker, RHJ).
If Boston signs Hayward they have to renounce KO.

Dump Hamilton (shouldn't be hard)

Lin / Dinwiddie / Goodwin
Russell / Whitehead / Kilpatrick
LeVert / Harris
Porter / KO / Acy
Mozgov / Allen / Nicholson

certainly goes from no shot to a punchers chance.... but still so many young guys, so many new pieces, and so little ability to sustain injury and keep winning. even if the young guys play well... its still tough to win with them. especially if kenny lets them play through struggles to get max development out of them.

look at last years wolves.

Towns/Wiggins both had big years. 26/12 for towns 24/5/4 for wiggins. towns arguably a top 15 player. Dunn, Dieng, Rubio, a solid coach.

they finished 31-51. i know thats in the west but they were just 12-19 vs the east as well.

It would take luck, I am more thinking we could just linger and not be out of until the last week or two.
I also think our guards are pretty mature for their age (our incumbents not sure about Russell) But our front court looks much better and much more dynamic.

East next year will be:

Cleveland
Boston
Toronto
Bucks
Wizards

And then a lot of uncertainty.

Detroit and Charlotte don't impress me
Philly is the biggest wild card in the NBA with their youth and injury history
Atlanta, Indy and Chicago are rebuilding
NY is NY
Indy is rebuilding
Orlando doesn't look that good
Miami...who knows

[Prokorov]

With the East losing talent left and right (Millsap, Teaue and PG13), I wonder if we could be in the PO race with a couple quality signings..say Porter and Olynyk.

Sign and trade for Porter so the Wiz don't match (Booker, RHJ).
If Boston signs Hayward they have to renounce KO.

Dump Hamilton (shouldn't be hard)

Lin / Dinwiddie / Goodwin
Russell / Whitehead / Kilpatrick
LeVert / Harris
Porter / KO / Acy
Mozgov / Allen / Nicholson

certainly goes from no shot to a punchers chance.... but still so many young guys, so many new pieces, and so little ability to sustain injury and keep winning. even if the young guys play well... its still tough to win with them. especially if kenny lets them play through struggles to get max development out of them.

look at last years wolves.

Towns/Wiggins both had big years. 26/12 for towns 24/5/4 for wiggins. towns arguably a top 15 player. Dunn, Dieng, Rubio, a solid coach.

they finished 31-51. i know thats in the west but they were just 12-19 vs the east as well.

It would take luck, I am more thinking we could just linger and not be out of until the last week or two.
I also think our guards are pretty mature for their age (our incumbents not sure about Russell) But our front court looks much better and much more dynamic.

East next year will be:

Cleveland
Boston
Toronto
Bucks
Wizards

And then a lot of uncertainty.

Detroit and Charlotte don't impress me
Philly is the biggest wild card in the NBA with their youth and injury history
Atlanta, Indy and Chicago are rebuilding
NY is NY
Indy is rebuilding
Orlando doesn't look that good
Miami...who knows

i get that the east is down... but i think that last paragraph is really anecdotal...

"detorit and charlotte dont impress me".

no they arent great... but the nets dont impress anyone either and those teams have more talent then us, at least charlotte does, and are a year removed from the playoffs.

miami "who knows". they were an excellent second half team that just missed last year on the last day of the season.

"orlando doesnt look that good"... neither do we.

Atlanta/indychicago "are rebuilding".... so are we.

i think we can be competitive in games. win more then last year. beat good teams any given night. but the consistency to win more then 35 games i just dont see. too many yong guys... a staff that values development to the point where they let guys play through struggles, a performance staff that will rest starters, new faces, young faces.

im not shocked if we win 30-34 games. more then that would take a fringe all-star not currently on the team in my opinion

[moonpie]

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[DeRoma]

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Green for 13m is a steal.... Marks get on that PLLLLEEEAAAASSEE!!!

[Prokorov]

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The hawks are smart. i wouldnt give THJ more then 10M either. and honestly im not sure id want him for that.

Green at 13M is right between where i want him and dont want him (like it at 10-12, dont at 14-16).


maybe we can get him for 3/36?

[DeRoma]

Read on Twitter

The hawks are smart. i wouldnt give THJ more then 10M either. and honestly im not sure id want him for that.

Green at 13M is right between where i want him and dont want him (like it at 10-12, dont at 14-16).


maybe we can get him for 3/36?

Give the man 13... Flat rate. You serious it's so much better than dealing with Porter's max

[Prokorov]

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The hawks are smart. i wouldnt give THJ more then 10M either. and honestly im not sure id want him for that.

Green at 13M is right between where i want him and dont want him (like it at 10-12, dont at 14-16).


maybe we can get him for 3/36?

Give the man 13... Flat rate. You serious it's so much better than dealing with Porter's max

I dont think it is. porter is a drastic overpay, but he is also a superior player.

Green is a solid fan favorite who hustles... but he isnt a slam dunk either...

9/7 in 27 minutes
shot 38% from three but on low volume (less then 2 attempts a game)
good shooting but not great efficiency (60TS% but 13 PER)
net positive on defense but not a big plus (+0.39 DRPM, 44th just above myers leonard, +0.22 DRAPM, 2.6DWS).

He is a 2 way guy... i love 2 way guys. he is versatile enough to defens smalls. again i love that.

but he is a solid defender not a good one. and his shooting numbers look good but when you look closer he doesnt really take many shots. mostly open shots inside 3 feet and open threes. only takes 6 shots a game. he is 27. so some development left for sure but not like a 24 year old kid either.

Ideally 3/30 would be a no brainer for me. 3/36 id swallow. more then that i start to get nervous is gave a big deal to role/bench type.

Thats jeremy lin money.. and not for jeremy lin production (elite 6th man/decent starter)

[Sleepyazn]

Would like Green but I'm suspect on his production because it's his first year being good. Rather sniff around Mike Muscala and see if we can pry him for cheap since Hawks were limiting his minutes.

[Prokorov]

Would like Green but I'm suspect on his production because it's his first year being good. Rather sniff around Mike Muscala and see if we can pry him for cheap since Hawks were limiting his minutes.

i think for 13M you can get olynk. id prefer that.

[DeRoma]

Read on Twitter

The hawks are smart. i wouldnt give THJ more then 10M either. and honestly im not sure id want him for that.

Green at 13M is right between where i want him and dont want him (like it at 10-12, dont at 14-16).


maybe we can get him for 3/36?

I don't think you can really compare Lin and Green when they are completely different type of player. You also have to add in the consideration that Grizzlies offense is a slow tempo (Atleast from what I know I don't watch them much). I think a more comparable player would be Trevor Booker and if you look at it in an eye test perspective, Green seems to be a much more capable player where he has a lot more tools than what Booker brings. It's really hard to compare stats when the Grizzlies runs a very slow tempo. So surely, statistics will not tell the whole truth in this situation. In perspective, if Green is given a higher volume he would produce more. Watching his highlights. He utilize a lot of different moves in different situations. Booker is a completely different type where he relies purely on momentum shift.

[Prokorov]

Read on Twitter

The hawks are smart. i wouldnt give THJ more then 10M either. and honestly im not sure id want him for that.

Green at 13M is right between where i want him and dont want him (like it at 10-12, dont at 14-16).


maybe we can get him for 3/36?

I don't think you can really compare Lin and Green when they are completely different type of player. You also have to add in the consideration that Grizzlies offense is a slow tempo (Atleast from what I know I don't watch them much). I think a more comparable player would be Trevor Booker and if you look at it in an eye test perspective, Green seems to be a much more capable player where he has a lot more tools than what Booker brings. It's really hard to compare stats when the Grizzlies runs a very slow tempo. So surely, statistics will not tell the whole truth in this situation. In perspective, if Green is given a higher volume he would produce more. Watching his highlights. He utilize a lot of different moves in different situations. Booker is a completely different type where he relies purely on momentum shift.

you pay for impact. doesnt matter lin/green play different spots they would both eat the same amount of cap. you want Lin-type production for that 13 million range.

trevor booker at 13M would be really really bad. at 9 million its about were he should be which is good.

pace adjusted stats tell the same story. and the big risk with low volume guys is with more volume their efficiency/shooting% goes down proportionally.

Right now greent akes only great shots. if you feed him volume, less of hsi shots are great attempts and his % goes down as does his impact.

Green is a role player. and we dont know if he is a solid Lin type impact role guy or an acy/booker low impact type role guy. so you need to be careful with his salary.

it also says alot if the grizz arent willing to give him 13 million and are in need f young talent

[ChokeFasncists]

People on this board just think that with even the tiniest bit of improvement, D'Angelo is a better player than Lin next season

You mean only some people I hope?

and a lot of people would rather see the backcourt of the future in Russell/Levert start together

It looks to me like Russell would most likely play SG and LeVert would most likely play SF

Russell: He's 6'5, he models his game on Manu and he's not particularly quick. The league is going smaller not bigger. He started at PG in LA but didn't do too well. They put Clarkson next to him and he got better. One knock on him is that he's not a good enough leader to play PG. OTOH, his shooter/scoring ability would be a plus at SG.

LVJ: He's 6'7 and plays like LBJ that's a bit smaller and less athletic. He can guard LBJ OK, he'll be able to guard any SF. He just needs to bulk up. Last season, they had ample opportunity to play him at SG towards the end of the season but he barely did. It's the same logic with RHJ, who exclusive plays at PF until he has it down.

[Vae Victus]

JaMychal seems to be the perfect fit at PF (still a bit scrawny for my tastes at PF), by being able to D up and stretch the floor. Give him a good deal, 3/39 3rd year Player Option, and poison pill the **** out of it so it makes MEM less likely to match.

Also personally, if i were Marks, i'd go after Valanciunus. He seems wiling to come off the bench and he's not being paid all that drastically and its a 2+1 deal left (3rd Player Option which's highly likely to opt out), he's durable, skilled, and he's young.

Carrolle is trending hardcore in the wrong direction and is a hard pass to me now that i looked at the advanced stats more closely. Valanciunus otoh has been rock solid near double double player while playing limited mins (25ish). If TOR is hellbent on dumping salary and is willing to go with a youth movement at C (Nogueira and Ploetl) , then BRK should oblige them. Personally im betting theyll stretch Carrolle next, why bail them out?

Valanciunus for Nicholson
if they want to dump more salary
Valancinus + Joseph for Nicholson + JHam

C - Mozgov, Valanciunus, Acy, Allen (DLeague)
PF- JaMychal, RHJ, Booker
SF- Levert, RHJ, Harris
SG- DLo, SKil, Whitehead (id send him to DLeague for regular burn)
PG- Lin, CoJo?, Dimwiddie

Look to trade Booker, SKil, CoJo (2nd year Player Option) to whoever for value.

This is a guaranteed playoff squad. Valanciunus will eat backup bigs alive and be an inside force for the bench unit, oh yea TOR was already trying to stretch him out to 3pt range as well to complement Nogeira playing inside, so why not keep on developing that. JaMychal gives the starters an extra shooter to REALLY space things out while providing good defense at the 4. There's enough shooting now that RHJ can get mins at SF, especially if one of Mozgov/Valanciunus pans out as a 3pt shooter.

Best part is that Valanciunus is only paid like 16 mil for 2+1 years, and he's like 99% likely to opt out. Along with JaMychal being a 2+1 contract that means in 2 years there will be LOTS of cap flexibility on what to do next. Mozgov in his 4th contract year can be stretched if BRK wants to open up even MORE cap space. After 1 season Valancinus/Green can basically be considered expiring contracts as well.

This team can play big and abuse smaller squads and still retain 3pt shooting threats if one of Mozgov/Val can be stretched out.

[Paradise]

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[DeRoma]

The hawks are smart. i wouldnt give THJ more then 10M either. and honestly im not sure id want him for that.

Green at 13M is right between where i want him and dont want him (like it at 10-12, dont at 14-16).


maybe we can get him for 3/36?

I don't think you can really compare Lin and Green when they are completely different type of player. You also have to add in the consideration that Grizzlies offense is a slow tempo (Atleast from what I know I don't watch them much). I think a more comparable player would be Trevor Booker and if you look at it in an eye test perspective, Green seems to be a much more capable player where he has a lot more tools than what Booker brings. It's really hard to compare stats when the Grizzlies runs a very slow tempo. So surely, statistics will not tell the whole truth in this situation. In perspective, if Green is given a higher volume he would produce more. Watching his highlights. He utilize a lot of different moves in different situations. Booker is a completely different type where he relies purely on momentum shift.

you pay for impact. doesnt matter lin/green play different spots they would both eat the same amount of cap. you want Lin-type production for that 13 million range.

trevor booker at 13M would be really really bad. at 9 million its about were he should be which is good.

pace adjusted stats tell the same story. and the big risk with low volume guys is with more volume their efficiency/shooting% goes down proportionally.

Right now greent akes only great shots. if you feed him volume, less of hsi shots are great attempts and his % goes down as does his impact.

Green is a role player. and we dont know if he is a solid Lin type impact role guy or an acy/booker low impact type role guy. so you need to be careful with his salary.

it also says alot if the grizz arent willing to give him 13 million and are in need f young talent

Man the way you reason things out is literally based on pure statistics. Basketball is not some sort of Billy Beane moment. Where you can just pure stats. Basketball is not as linear as baseball . Where every situation can be equate. I'm definitely an advocate of mathematics but advance metrics is simply not there yet in basketball. Maybe in baseball or poker but not bball. I'll explain myself later gotta go to the gym.


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