Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[therealbig3]

Tyler Herro is also only 23 years old. So yeah, his big extension kicks in, but he's a 20/5/4 player that still has room to grow and get better and if he can stay healthy...he can help us win games while we continue to build the team organically or get a legit superstar here for the long term. I also think that if he stays healthy, an efficient 20-25 ppg scorer like Herro becomes a trade asset in a year or two as well, rather than a liability.

I really wouldn't be opposed to taking on Herro, ESPECIALLY if it means unloading Simmons. Man, what a godsend that would be.

[Netaman]

Passing on Dame doesn’t mean wait 4 seasons and waste all of Bridges prime and cap friendly contract.

As soon as Dame is dealt, there will be the next rumors swirling.

how many of them are going to be near perfect basketball fits for what the nets need? mitchell if he hits the market at some point, which is unlikely within the year. and luka which is even more unlikely in the short term.

the nets rumored approach (per woj) is exactly right. don't go crazy but if all they need to do is beat the crappy heat offer then get er done.

What is beating the crappy Heat offer though?

3 of the 4 premium picks we own?

No thanks!

And Dame’s now gone all in on the Heat as his only destination.

Don’t go star f***ing and chase players who don’t really want to be here, especially at asset and opportunity cost for a 33 year old guy making $60 mill a year.

A near perfect fit for 2 seasons, then $60 million a season for end of prime level Mike Conley?

Idk man…

past his prime level mike conley had a positive impact on the wolves this year and helped utah way overachieve in years prior. way past his prime kyle lowry was part of the heat run this year. way way past his prime cp3 brought back a future first this year after making a pretty big impact in phoenix (when he was healthy). nash was making first team all nba through his mid 30's. kidd was a big supporting piece and got his ring at what 37/38?

so if there's a potential position where you can suffer a past their prime player, it's a high iq pg who can hit 3's.

also we've talked about premium picks before but i disagree the nets only own 4. since Miami's picks are 2028 and 2030, the nets have at least 6 comparable or greater in value. Phoenix 27, Phoenix 29, Dallas 29, Brooklyn 28 (swappable with pho), Brooklyn 29, Brooklyn 30. as long as pat riley is is breathing i would rather have all 6 of those unprotected picks over the 2 picks the heat can trade. so yes, the nets can easily beat the miami picks without dealing all of the good ones. possibly with only half the good ones.

and the nets also own phoenix 25, phil 27, and their own 2 picks with houston swaps. i know they can't deal all 10 but 3 unprotected firsts should be more than miami can offer, and should keep a lot of pick value for future deals.

[Netaman]

this is an update from Chis Haynes where he talks about nets being involved in the 3 team somehow with a lot of moving pieces. I love that the nets are staying close to the situation and monitoring without appearing eager. this is like the anti-billy king strategy. only thing that would have been better is if they announce they are switching Dariq to #0 to act like they really have no interest in lillard.

Read on Twitter

[Decipher]

The rumour is that the Nets want to avoid the repeater tax & have been shedding salary to do just that

I’d be surprised if they swung for Dame but fully expect them to try to be involved in the trade somehow

[Netaman]

Tyler Herro is also only 23 years old. So yeah, his big extension kicks in, but he's a 20/5/4 player that still has room to grow and get better and if he can stay healthy...he can help us win games while we continue to build the team organically or get a legit superstar here for the long term. I also think that if he stays healthy, an efficient 20-25 ppg scorer like Herro becomes a trade asset in a year or two as well, rather than a liability.

I really wouldn't be opposed to taking on Herro, ESPECIALLY if it means unloading Simmons. Man, what a godsend that would be.

I don't have a big issue with Herro either, he is a good scorer and would add shooting to a team that needs some more shooting. I just don't see a simple path to getting him and swapping out salary unless we are sending players to portland that they like better. in which case, why don't we just get the better player? herro will never be better than dame. he has never led 1 team to the playoffs, let alone 8 in 10 years.

[Marvin Martian]

In a heartbeat

Read on Twitter

Herro is garbage. Why are we helping MIA acquire Dame? We need a PG not a 6th man

[Netaman]

The rumour is that the Nets want to avoid the repeater tax & have been shedding salary to do just that

I’d be surprised if they swung for Dame but fully expect them to try to be involved in the trade somehow

they wont avoid the repeater tax no matter what unless they sit out big moves for not just this year but also next year. i believe the repeater tax is teams paying luxury tax 3 in 4 years. They've paid the last 3 years, so even if they pay no tax this year they will be back to repeater tax in 2024-2025 unless they stay under the luxury tax again.

they clearly want to stay under the luxury tax this year if it's possible and they aren't a contender. they could probably do that even if they get lillard. but if they get lillard they will probably want to keep adding additional pieces to actually be a real contender, which is presumably why they are moving what they can now to open up TPEs at different budget levels.

[Paradise]

We generated a $6.8 Million TPE. That’s three capable of improving the roster. A combined $47 million in Trade Exceptions.

I don’t think Sean Marks and the staff are done whatsoever. We’re manipulating the cap for a reason.

[Netaman]

We generated a $6.8 Million TPE. That’s three capable of improving the roster. A combined $47 million in Trade Exceptions.

I don’t think Sean Marks and the staff are done whatsoever. We’re manipulating the cap for a reason.

agreed. there is a glut of players and obviously a ton of picks to deal from.

we know bridges/cam j are starting.

i think it's safe to assume claxton not going anywhere.

the backcourt is totally under construction but they have the assets to do some high end work. and they just added a really good defensive backup PG who can't shoot while trading their best bench shooter, so presumably there is some shooting on the way in.

[Decipher]

We generated a $6.8 Million TPE. That’s three capable of improving the roster. A combined $47 million in Trade Exceptions.

I don’t think Sean Marks and the staff are done whatsoever. We’re manipulating the cap for a reason.

Same with Sixers & Heat

Teams aren’t getting rid of useful depth for little return because they are charities

[Paradise]

Patty Mills is going from the Rockets to the Grizzlies in the Dillion Brooks S&T.

It’s a three team deal basically.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

I only included the players and not the picks, obviously both Miami and Brooklyn would need to send picks to Portland in my scenario. But how would everyone feel about a three team trade structure like (again, picks would need to be sent Portland's way but this trade structure I just focused on players involved):

Nets in: Tyler Herro, Anfree Simons
Nets out: Spencer Dinwiddie, Ben Simmons, picks (up for debate)

*A starting lineup of Simons, Herro, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and Claxton I think would be a fun team to watch. On paper they seem to compliment each other well with some good offensive and some good defensive players. The entire starting lineup would be 27 years old or younger and with the exception of Claxton, all would be under team control for the next few years. But obviously the big question is the long term money, it would obviously be a turn-off for some, I understand. Just wanted to throw this out here for discussion. I know people will be turned off by the long term money that would be on the books, but I wanted to throw it out there for discussion at least. Herro and Simons were both 20+ ppg last year and are both not even in their prime yet. I honestly like them both but realize only one if more likely the case , if the nets even want either of them.

Heat in: Damian Lillard, Spencer Dinwiddie
Heat out: Tyler Herro, Kyle Lowry, Nikola Jovic, Jaime Jaquez Jr. (After 30 days this trade would need to occur), picks (again, up for debate)

*Heat get the star they want to pair up with Bam and Butler, while getting a great 6th man in Dinwiddie as they lost a couple of core role players in Strus and Vincent.

Trail Blazers in: Kyle Lowry, Nikola Jovic, Ben Simmons, Jamie Jaquez Jr., picks
Trail Blazers out: Damian Lillard and Anfree Simons

*trail blazers gets a big expiring veryan in Lowry to mentor their young guards Scoot and Sharpe. They get future draft picks and young guys on rookie deals in Jovic and Jaquez to develop. And Simmons contract is two years shorter than herro's contract while at the same time, maybe the trail blazers view him as a reclamation project.

[Netaman]

that trade is an awful return for lillard and a stupid outlay of cash for brooklyn. $220m over the next 4 years for Herro + Simons, which are both probably neutral at best contracts today. Dinwiddie + Simmons = less than half that amount of $ and the upgrade is perhaps non-existent. neither roster is better than play-in. one just costs more than the other.

if Portland wants Ben Simmons, then send them Ben Simmons and Dinwiddie (or Royce) with 1 more pick than Miami can deal.

This team is a top 4 team in the east depending on what happens with harden, and all the pieces fit:

Lillard / DSJ / Sumner
Royce / Whitehead / Thomas
Bridges / Wilson
Cam J / DFS
Claxton / Clowney / Sharpe

and they still have 2 big TPE's, 2 small TPE's, Cam Thomas, and a bunch of picks left to make the roster even better.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

that trade is an awful return for lillard and a stupid outlay of cash for brooklyn. $220m over the next 4 years for Herro + Simons, which are both probably neutral at best contracts today. Dinwiddie + Simmons = less than half that amount of $ and the upgrade is perhaps non-existent. neither roster is better than play-in. one just costs more than the other.

if Portland wants Ben Simmons, then send them Ben Simmons and Dinwiddie (or Royce) with 1 more pick than Miami can deal.



This team is a top 4 team in the east depending on what happens with harden, and all the pieces fit:

Lillard / DSJ / Sumner
Royce / Whitehead / Thomas
Bridges / Wilson
Cam J / DFS
Claxton / Clowney / Sharpe

and they still have 2 big TPE's, 2 small TPE's, Cam Thomas, and a bunch of picks left to make the roster even better.

Obviously getting Lillard would be my first choice, if the cost isn't astronomical of course. But I was just trying to past the time as we all wait to hear what progress gets made on a deal. And my trade idea was under the assumption that Lillard is completely focused on getting to Miami, which all reports currently out there collaborate. And I wasn't saying that necessarily wanted Simmons, it's just they might view him as a reclamation project that wouldn't take shots away from Sharpe and Scoot while the team develops the two of them. Plus Simmons's contract is two years shorter than herro's and the trail blazers already seem set at the guard, while Simmons can play PF or even small ball center at them at times. If Simmons doesn't work out for them this year as a reclamation project, he would be an expiring next year that they could move on from without giving up a crazy amount.

And I'm not exactly how this is a bad return for Portland based on the reports I've read. The heat as of right now are not including butler, bam, or caleb Martin. And Portland doesn't want herro with Sharpe, Simons, and scoot currently on the roster. So if they end up doing a deal with Miami, they aren't going to get any particularly great players or picks back. So Miami throws them all the young players they have and all the picks they have, plus Brooklyn sends them a pick for herro. But if that's not good enough, what exactly is a realistic trade package they can get back for Lillard that isn't "an awful return" from Miami? Or even Brooklyn for that matter, as reports make it sound like Brooklyn is monitoring dame's situation and will only jump in if the offers aren't too high?

And maybe I'm in the minority, but the combo of Simons & herro is WAY better the combo of Simmons & Dinwiddie on the court. Simmons doesn't even play. Simons and Herro are both 24 years old or younger and have much better offensive games. They are much better shooters as well which will space the floor for bridges on the offensive end. And if either of them have a great year, their salary could matchup nicely in a trade next year for a star player (along with all the future picks the nets currently own).

[vincecarter4pres]

Nah, **** taking on the salary of Simons and Herro.

[Netaman]

if that's the best deal they can get then the cost isn't astronomical. haynes is probably the closest of all the reporters to lillard, he says the nets are one of his preferences. the blazers put out an official statement they are doing whats best for the blazers.

if the nets make a better offer than whatever the heat can put together then they can get lillard.

it's possible the heat find a 3rd team that lets them make a big enough offer the nets don't want to match but that's not it.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

Nah, **** taking on the salary of Simons and Herro.

Just a thought I had, but I get the hesitation on committing long term money to those two. I just think you could do worse than finding two 20+ point scorers who haven't even hit age 25 yet and get them without giving up a ton. And if the nets lock up Claxton to a long term deal next year at over $20M a year (which is what Poetel just got from the raptors), I'm not sure if they will be able to afford any big name free agents in 2025 anyways. I'm sure they can maneuver their way to it if they really wanted to, but 2 years from now is a lifetime by NBA standard's. But again, I understand the hesitation. Just wanted to throw it out there for discussion

[Packers+NetsWIN]

if that's the best deal they can get then the cost isn't astronomical. haynes is probably the closest of all the reporters to lillard, he says the nets are one of his preferences. the blazers put out an official statement they are doing whats best for the blazers.

if the nets make a better offer than whatever the heat can put together then they can get lillard.

it's possible the heat find a 3rd team that lets them make a big enough offer the nets don't want to match but that's not it.

Well I think that's the best deal they can get from Miami. If Lillard is open to other teams outside of Miami and Brooklyn, I think they can definitely get a better offer. But Miami is limited on what they can offer and Brooklyn seems to be taking the cautious approach since they have to worry about the repeater tax and we've seen how big trades have worked in the past for them (aka Pierce & KG trade and harden trade and Gerald Wallace trade SMH) but it'll definitely be interesting to see if Portland opens up the bidding a bit more either with or without Lillard blessing since he doesn't have a no trade clause and is under contract for 4 more years.

[Paradise]

Miami is signing Dru Smith after the Nets didn’t tender a qualifying offer. I wouldn’t be surprised if David Duke ends up there too.

[Tha King]

Passing on Dame doesn’t mean wait 4 seasons and waste all of Bridges prime and cap friendly contract.

As soon as Dame is dealt, there will be the next rumors swirling.

how many of them are going to be near perfect basketball fits for what the nets need? mitchell if he hits the market at some point, which is unlikely within the year. and luka which is even more unlikely in the short term.

the nets rumored approach (per woj) is exactly right. don't go crazy but if all they need to do is beat the crappy heat offer then get er done.

What is beating the crappy Heat offer though?

3 of the 4 premium picks we own?

No thanks!

And Dame’s now gone all in on the Heat as his only destination.

Don’t go star f***ing and chase players who don’t really want to be here, especially at asset and opportunity cost for a 33 year old guy making $60 mill a year.

A near perfect fit for 2 seasons, then $60 million a season for end of prime level Mike Conley?

Idk man…

exactly. The best Heat offer is several swaps, two picks, and two recent first round picks with Herro included.

The equivalent Nets offer would include most of the non-Nets picks and maybe Claxton as well. After that you're not left with a ton to get a viable difference maker to go with Dame that you need to actually be anything more than a first or second round team.