2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I don't trust the evaluation based solely on stats.

I'm not sure what else you want to go on..

Eyeball test RHJ is off the charts. shutting down bigs and smalls.

RHJ got 2 all-nba defense votes. winslow none.

RHJ's team was better defensively with him on the floor the miami was with winslow on the floor

RHJs team was worse with him OFF the floor then miami was with winslow OFF the floor.

there is literally no evidence that comes close to suggesting winslow is as good as RHJ on defense, let alone better. and if you factor in offense where RHJ is much better then it becomes an even bigger gap.

you could probably compare how they fare vs. similar opponents. that data isnt readily available unless you have a synergy/stats inc subscription.

what exactly makes you think winslow is a better defender, despite the mountains of evidence otherwise?

Watch on YouTube

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Winslow only played 18 games last season. And all of them are at the beginning of the last season, when the heat are kind of trying to figure things out.
In his rookie season, he palyed about 25 min/game in the playoffs. He got those minutes solely for defensive reasons.
Saying RHJ is better than Winslow doesn't convince me for that.

He's not saying that RHJ is a better defender than Winslow, the stats are.

If you wanna disagree with facts and statistics then by all means continue with your baseless claims.

[vincecarter4pres]

I don't trust the evaluation based solely on stats.

I'm not sure what else you want to go on..

Eyeball test RHJ is off the charts. shutting down bigs and smalls.

RHJ got 2 all-nba defense votes. winslow none.

RHJ's team was better defensively with him on the floor the miami was with winslow on the floor

RHJs team was worse with him OFF the floor then miami was with winslow OFF the floor.

there is literally no evidence that comes close to suggesting winslow is as good as RHJ on defense, let alone better. and if you factor in offense where RHJ is much better then it becomes an even bigger gap.

you could probably compare how they fare vs. similar opponents. that data isnt readily available unless you have a synergy/stats inc subscription.

what exactly makes you think winslow is a better defender, despite the mountains of evidence otherwise?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Winslow only played 18 games last season. And all of them are at the beginning of the last season, when the heat are kind of trying to figure things out.
In his rookie season, he palyed about 25 min/game in the playoffs. He got those minutes solely for defensive reasons.
Saying RHJ is better than Winslow doesn't convince me for that.

Well convince this board otherwise then, other than you saying Winslow is better...

[Prokorov]

I don't trust the evaluation based solely on stats.

I'm not sure what else you want to go on..

Eyeball test RHJ is off the charts. shutting down bigs and smalls.

RHJ got 2 all-nba defense votes. winslow none.

RHJ's team was better defensively with him on the floor the miami was with winslow on the floor

RHJs team was worse with him OFF the floor then miami was with winslow OFF the floor.

there is literally no evidence that comes close to suggesting winslow is as good as RHJ on defense, let alone better. and if you factor in offense where RHJ is much better then it becomes an even bigger gap.

you could probably compare how they fare vs. similar opponents. that data isnt readily available unless you have a synergy/stats inc subscription.

what exactly makes you think winslow is a better defender, despite the mountains of evidence otherwise?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Winslow only played 18 games last season. And all of them are at the beginning of the last season, when the heat are kind of trying to figure things out.
In his rookie season, he palyed about 25 min/game in the playoffs. He got those minutes solely for defensive reasons.
Saying RHJ is better than Winslow doesn't convince me for that.

I dont see how miami cutting winslows minutes in the playoffs is evidence of him being a better defender then RHJ....
he played 29 minutes regular season, so 25 minutes is kind of showing they went with other guys more.


and im not saying RHJ is better then winslow... im providing mountains of evidence that supports that RHJ is better.

[Prokorov]

One question the Marksman needs to ask is, is KCP/Porter better than LVJ?

ATM, I'm sure both are better in the sense that GMs would take either player to contend for a championship in one year rather than LeVert.

The question Marks needs to ask is, is it worth locking up heavy salary over the next 4 years and stifling game time minutes for LeVert. If he believes LeVert doesn't have the drive to improve into at least a solid starter, then he should favor guys like KCP and Porter over LeVert in order to best build some type of winning culture.

However, if he believes LeVert can develop into a potential all-star or borderline all-star, then the sooner that happens (typically with more playing time) the more efficient the Nets salary spending will be. Caris will be making roughly $2M for the next 3 years, the sooner he gets to starter/above average starter quality, the more money BKN will have to be able to attract other players at more necessary positions.

Btw, what's with the J in LVJ? Is LeVert a junior?

i dont see how Levert factors in to porter or KCP.

i dont see how they wold stifle his minutes. long term those guys play next to levert not in place of him. and even while lin is still here levert would still get 25-27 mpg

[FlipFlopShot]

One question the Marksman needs to ask is, is KCP/Porter better than LVJ?

ATM, I'm sure both are better in the sense that GMs would take either player to contend for a championship in one year rather than LeVert.

The question Marks needs to ask is, is it worth locking up heavy salary over the next 4 years and stifling game time minutes for LeVert. If he believes LeVert doesn't have the drive to improve into at least a solid starter, then he should favor guys like KCP and Porter over LeVert in order to best build some type of winning culture.

However, if he believes LeVert can develop into a potential all-star or borderline all-star, then the sooner that happens (typically with more playing time) the more efficient the Nets salary spending will be. Caris will be making roughly $2M for the next 3 years, the sooner he gets to starter/above average starter quality, the more money BKN will have to be able to attract other players at more necessary positions.

Btw, what's with the J in LVJ? Is LeVert a junior?

I don't agree with that approach. Development should never take priority over everything else. At best it should be number 2 which is what we should be doing. The team should always be playing the best players. If Porter comes at the right price, fits, and would become our better option, he should be acquired above how we feel about LeVert's potential will be.

If the point comes where LeVert becomes better than Porter (and let's say that Lin, DAngelo and Rondae are playing star level) than we'll let Porter go.

[Prokorov]

Argument against tanking #210:

the case of the orlando magic tank job

Orlando the past 5 years has been in a tank cycle and picked #2, #4, #5, #6, #10

#10 Peyton (didnt move up or down in the lottery)
#2 Oladipo (dropped 1 spot in the lottery )
#4 Gordon (dropped 1 spot in the lottery )
#5 Hezonja (dropped 2 spots in the lottery )
#6 Isaac (dropped 1 spot in the lottery )


** In 2013 they had the leagues worst record. They droped from #1 to #2 in one of the worst drafts in league history (top 5: Antohny Bennet, Oladipo, otto porter, cody zeller, alex len)

** in 2014 they dropped 1 spot in the lottery from #3 to #4.... the top 3 picks that year: Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid. they ended up with aaron gordon at #4

** in 2015 they dropped from #3 to #5. Kristaps prigioni went #4 right before they took hezonja. top 3 picks where Towns, russell, okafor.



So they had 3 years where they finsished with a bottom 3 record.

the year they finished with the worst record was a terrible draft. and they dropped a pick

they year they finished 3rd was an elite draft for top 3 talent but they dropped out of the top 3.

the next year they finished third there was 3 elite players with kristaps going #4 but they dropped 2 spots to 5.

there is just WAAAAAAY too much luck involved. if they had better luck they end up with Embiid, Kristaps, and otto porter.

its awesome when you tank, stay top 3 or move up, and the drafts all are loaded with stars were you pick.

The magic didnt even draft poorly. oladipo was the only decent guy in that draft. they just picked after all the elite talent was gone because they dropped in the lotto

after a 5 year tank job their young core is:

Peyton, Hezonja, Issac, fournier

after a horrible era of billy king with no picks our young core is:

Russell, Levert, RHJ. Allen

[Prokorov]

One question the Marksman needs to ask is, is KCP/Porter better than LVJ?

ATM, I'm sure both are better in the sense that GMs would take either player to contend for a championship in one year rather than LeVert.

The question Marks needs to ask is, is it worth locking up heavy salary over the next 4 years and stifling game time minutes for LeVert. If he believes LeVert doesn't have the drive to improve into at least a solid starter, then he should favor guys like KCP and Porter over LeVert in order to best build some type of winning culture.

However, if he believes LeVert can develop into a potential all-star or borderline all-star, then the sooner that happens (typically with more playing time) the more efficient the Nets salary spending will be. Caris will be making roughly $2M for the next 3 years, the sooner he gets to starter/above average starter quality, the more money BKN will have to be able to attract other players at more necessary positions.

Btw, what's with the J in LVJ? Is LeVert a junior?

I don't agree with that approach. Development should never take priority over everything else. At best it should be number 2 which is what we should be doing. The team should always be playing the best players. If Porter comes at the right price, fits, and would become our better option, he should be acquired above how we feel about LeVert's potential will be.

If the point comes where LeVert becomes better than Porter (and let's say that Lin, DAngelo and Rondae are playing star level) than we'll let Porter go.

OF course development should come first... we are very early into like a 5 year rebuild. you develop your young guys and play your young guys big minutes through struggles.

why would you play better guys and try and win when wins arent important right now?

look how great playing young guys worked last year. we had outstanding development

[ChokeFasncists]

It's funny cause the only bad ball minds are the Lin fans who suffer from the delusion that he's some sort of elite player that's unrivaled be others.

While it is true that there exist people like that but to say they are the only ones would be flat wrong.

They truly are neck and neck at this point and a small leap by Russell will make him without a doubt the better player.

Anyone who thinks that would have a bad bball mind or is ignorant. I can't believe I have to explain it but here we go.

First of all, offensive game is only a small part of the game. They might be not far in that department, Lin is a much better player on the other side of the court. (I hope I don't have to explain that to you?) Lin is much better off the court (this as well?). He provides much better on court leadership and he makes his teammates better, something DRuss has yet to show capable of. Lin has done playoffs heroics while DRuss has never sniffed it. When the Lakers wanted to tank, they benched Lin; later on, they'd play DRuss big minutes and got the picks.

Many people think Russell is better you could tell by all the comments about how he was the best player on the team after the trade.

I'm sorry, I've basically read every single post after the trade and there are only a meager amount of posts that said that. Many people think that several years down the road he could become the better player, that's pretty reasonable.

And you must have just been watching Lin the whole time or something because LeVert is very capable of being a primary ball handler and showed it last season.

Read more carefully? I said, "just cuz he is capable of being a primary ball handler doesn't mean he will be the PG."

Also your quote about Harris is just completely wrong. He started 11 games, struggled to get consistent minutes all year and he's a fringe NBA player who only played 5 games in 2015. He's also unathletic, 6'6 with short arms and has no place playing small forward. In fact you mentioning Joe Harris as a small forward further proves the very well known point that the Nets lacked an actual small forward on last years roster. That's why Sean marks said that that was the position that he wanted to address the most over the offseason.

I'm sorry, your opinion would directly contradict Kenny's. I do believe that Kenny has a much better bball mind than you do and I happen to agree with him. He started JHar at SF with relatively good results. Unfortunately he was out for the season with an injury. He is surely not a very good player, but he's no worse than Foye. I'm not sure you understand what I was saying. The point is, Kenny could have started JHar at SF and LVJ at SG but he elected to go with Foye at SG and LVJ at SF. You could certainly say that Kenny is completely wrong but it wouldn't mean much. Small forward is surely a position of need but it wouldn't be cuz LVJ isn't suitable to play there. Positions are more fluid now. RHJ wasn't "an actual" PF but he is one now. LVJ wasn't "an actual" SF but he is one now. Again, one would do well to keep in mind that the league is going smaller at this moment, or towards the interchangeable middle.

The offensive part of the game is way more important for a PG than defense and Russell is better offensively than Lin.

Is that how one stretches the truth?

OTOH, why are you so sure DRuss is better offensively than Lin?

How do you know this are you Kenny? Do you know him personally?

I don't. I just look at what he did and use logic.

Please give me a break everything you say is designed to benefit Jeremy Lin while everything I say is meant to benefit the team as a whole.

That's what you think is happening but it isn't really what's going on. So you're saying Luke put DRuss at the 2 is self-serving in detriment to the team?

And Kenny didn't start Harris at Sf because he isn't a sf and he is incapable of guarding the position. He by no means played well there. That's why he played inconsistent minutes all season and you fail to realize that Harris could've started at SG too but Kenny decided to start Randy freaking foye over him. Why? Because Harris is TRASH.

Na, Harris is too slow to play SG, he's strong enough to guard SFs. At 6'6 he's not really undersized nowadays. (I was saying this at the beginning of the season and Kenny's action says the same) Harris could be said to be trash on a good team, but on last year's team, that's totally wrong, do you honestly believe that Foye is better than him? At the latter part of the season it was more about development anyways, how much pt did Scola get? Harris definitely would have played more if he wasn't injured.

I'm pretty sure marks knows Kenny better than you do and they are on the record saying that they see LeVert as a SG and that sf is the position they need to upgrade most (meaning they want to move LeVert to shooting guard) seriously look it up. They're also on record saying that the 4 is Rondaes natural position.

Ya, when they were looking at Porter vs Foye. Now they got Russell it's a totally different ballgame. And if they get KCP, or JJ? They don't really mind having LVJ at SF.

Also it's always ideal to have a size advantage at your position, which LeVert has at SG but does not at small forward.

It's a negligible consideration. Especially now that versatility and small ball is in vogue. You definitely don't want liability tho and he's not.

I understand that these ideas threaten your favorite players place on the team but I couldn't care less about him.

I honestly hope that Lin plays amazing this season.
But only so that he can raise his trade value and we can flip him for good value and move forward with our backcourt of the future.

But clearly you only care about what's best for Lin not the teams future.

Sorry, I don't respond to ad hominem arguments. OTOH, what you want and what's gonna happen doesn't necessarily coincide. What's good for Lin could be good for the teams future as well. Facilitating PGs are different from other positions, it takes time to mature. You see Lowry with a bunch of young guys, Nash, Kidd etc.

We shall see what happens with the free agency, if they don't get Porter this might be the perimeter for the future.

[Prokorov]

The offensive part of the game is way more important for a PG than defense and Russell is better offensively than Lin.

Is that how one stretches the truth? .

it is pretty unanimously agree that PG offense > PG defense. PG defense in alot of circles is even viewed as irrelevant and in most circles viewed as easily the least important on defense.

as far as lin vs. russell on offense... who knows. when healthy lin was better last year. who knows if russell makes the typical 3rd year jump or if he is better in kennys system then the mess in LA

regardless of where you stand,,, if you are a nets fan you would hope russell is better on offense next year. our future hinges on him becoming an outstanding offensive player

[Prokorov]

what time is the porter meeting? its almost midnight and crickets?

[FlipFlopShot]

ATM, I'm sure both are better in the sense that GMs would take either player to contend for a championship in one year rather than LeVert.

The question Marks needs to ask is, is it worth locking up heavy salary over the next 4 years and stifling game time minutes for LeVert. If he believes LeVert doesn't have the drive to improve into at least a solid starter, then he should favor guys like KCP and Porter over LeVert in order to best build some type of winning culture.

However, if he believes LeVert can develop into a potential all-star or borderline all-star, then the sooner that happens (typically with more playing time) the more efficient the Nets salary spending will be. Caris will be making roughly $2M for the next 3 years, the sooner he gets to starter/above average starter quality, the more money BKN will have to be able to attract other players at more necessary positions.

Btw, what's with the J in LVJ? Is LeVert a junior?

I don't agree with that approach. Development should never take priority over everything else. At best it should be number 2 which is what we should be doing. The team should always be playing the best players. If Porter comes at the right price, fits, and would become our better option, he should be acquired above how we feel about LeVert's potential will be.

If the point comes where LeVert becomes better than Porter (and let's say that Lin, DAngelo and Rondae are playing star level) than we'll let Porter go.

OF course development should come first... we are very early into like a 5 year rebuild. you develop your young guys and play your young guys big minutes through struggles.

why would you play better guys and try and win when wins arent important right now?

look how great playing young guys worked last year. we had outstanding development

You're not understanding. May not be first, but development will be there. My statement has nothing to do with playing through struggles or playing to win. Whoever is better, plays more.

The thing is potential is just a projection. Who we sign and how we sign should not be limited by "potential projection". Porter is better than LeVert. If the money works (Not max so it's mute but for argument sake), there shouldn't be any question. LeVert will have to beat Porter, find a place alongside him or get traded.

[Prokorov]

I don't agree with that approach. Development should never take priority over everything else. At best it should be number 2 which is what we should be doing. The team should always be playing the best players. If Porter comes at the right price, fits, and would become our better option, he should be acquired above how we feel about LeVert's potential will be.

If the point comes where LeVert becomes better than Porter (and let's say that Lin, DAngelo and Rondae are playing star level) than we'll let Porter go.

OF course development should come first... we are very early into like a 5 year rebuild. you develop your young guys and play your young guys big minutes through struggles.

why would you play better guys and try and win when wins arent important right now?

look how great playing young guys worked last year. we had outstanding development

You're not understanding. May not be first, but development will be there.
The thing is potential is just a projection. Who we sign and how we sign should not be limited by "potential projection". Porter is better than LeVert. If the money works (Not max so it's mute but for argument sake), there shouldn't be any question. LeVert will have to beat Porter, find a place alongside him or get traded.

signing porter has nothing to do with levert. he will play tons and probably start whether we get porter or not.

[DarkXaero]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Harkless as a contract comparison for RHJ (or maybe someone did and I missed it). Harkless signed a 4 year/42 million contract last summer in a free agency full of insane, overpaid contracts. Harkless is a similar type of player, a defensive forward/tweener 4 who couldn't shoot the ball most of his career. However, Harkless, this season developed into a decent 3pt shooter and actually posted a pretty high TS% (57%). Harkless is better offensively than RHJ but worse defensively. There isn't a big age gap between the two either, with Harkless only being 2 years older.

Now I wouldn't expect RHJ to get that same contract but I don't think it would be a lot more unless RHJ develops his 3pt shot a lot over the next two seasons. It also depends on how successfully he can play as a PF for a full season. We saw a nice stretch of play from him as our PF but that was a small sample size. The only thing to consider is that last summer turned out to be an outlier with the insane contracts. Teams that handed out overpaid contracts last summer are regretting them and there is a lot more reluctance now. Yes, Otto Porter max and whatever KCP may end up getting is still insane, but its more out of desperation from bad teams in need of talent (Nets, Kings, Pistons).

[FlipFlopShot]

OF course development should come first... we are very early into like a 5 year rebuild. you develop your young guys and play your young guys big minutes through struggles.

why would you play better guys and try and win when wins arent important right now?

look how great playing young guys worked last year. we had outstanding development

You're not understanding. May not be first, but development will be there.
The thing is potential is just a projection. Who we sign and how we sign should not be limited by "potential projection". Porter is better than LeVert. If the money works (Not max so it's mute but for argument sake), there shouldn't be any question. LeVert will have to beat Porter, find a place alongside him or get traded.

signing porter has nothing to do with levert. he will play tons and probably start whether we get porter or not.

That is what I said... Your issues with other posters has nothing to do with me.

[Prokorov]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Harkless as a contract comparison for RHJ (or maybe someone did and I missed it). Harkless signed a 4 year/42 million contract last summer in a free agency full of insane, overpaid contracts. Harkless is a similar type of player, a defensive forward/tweener 4 who couldn't shoot the ball most of his career. However, Harkless, this season developed into a decent 3pt shooter and actually posted a pretty high TS% (57%). Harkless is better offensively than RHJ but worse defensively. There isn't a big age gap between the two either, with Harkless only being 2 years older.

When he signed the contract he was an average defender and an average offensive player who didnt shoot the 3 well. he didnt rebound either. he was young and showed some flashes and had size but before last year he was a really ordinary player. he had no elite skills and maybe no clear plus skills. just "OK" or "solid" across the board.

its year 2 and RHJ is already an elite defender. offensively he is better then harkless was when he signed his deal and RHJ rebounds as well

Now I wouldn't expect RHJ to get that same contract but I don't think it would be a lot more unless RHJ develops his 3pt shot a lot over the next two seasons. It also depends on how successfully he can play as a PF for a full season. We saw a nice stretch of play from him as our PF but that was a small sample size. The only thing to consider is that last summer turned out to be an outlier with the insane contracts. Teams that handed out overpaid contracts last summer are regretting them and there is a lot more reluctance now. Yes, Otto Porter max and whatever KCP may end up getting is still insane, but its more out of desperation from bad teams in need of talent (Nets, Kings, Pistons).

IF RHJ doesnt improve at all he is a 15+ miillion player as he does have an elite skill (defense).

[TheBrooklynKidd]

While it is true that there exist people like that but to say they are the only ones would be flat wrong.

Anyone who thinks that would have a bad bball mind or is ignorant. I can't believe I have to explain it but here we go.

First of all, offensive game is only a small part of the game. They might be not far in that department, Lin is a much better player on the other side of the court. (I hope I don't have to explain that to you?) Lin is much better off the court (this as well?). He provides much better on court leadership and he makes his teammates better, something DRuss has yet to show capable of. Lin has done playoffs heroics while DRuss has never sniffed it. When the Lakers wanted to tank, they benched Lin; later on, they'd play DRuss big minutes and got the picks.

I'm sorry, I've basically read every single post after the trade and there are only a meager amount of posts that said that. Many people think that several years down the road he could become the better player, that's pretty reasonable.


Read more carefully? I said, "just cuz he is capable of being a primary ball handler doesn't mean he will be the PG."

I'm sorry, your opinion would directly contradict Kenny's. I do believe that Kenny has a much better bball mind than you do and I happen to agree with him. He started JHar at SF with relatively good results. Unfortunately he was out for the season with an injury. He is surely not a very good player, but he's no worse than Foye. I'm not sure you understand what I was saying. The point is, Kenny could have started JHar at SF and LVJ at SG but he elected to go with Foye at SG and LVJ at SF. You could certainly say that Kenny is completely wrong but it wouldn't mean much. Small forward is surely a position of need but it wouldn't be cuz LVJ isn't suitable to play there. Positions are more fluid now. RHJ wasn't "an actual" PF but he is one now. LVJ wasn't "an actual" SF but he is one now. Again, one would do well to keep in mind that the league is going smaller at this moment, or towards the interchangeable middle.

The offensive part of the game is way more important for a PG than defense and Russell is better offensively than Lin.

Is that how one stretches the truth?

OTOH, why are you so sure DRuss is better offensively than Lin?

How do you know this are you Kenny? Do you know him personally?

I don't. I just look at what he did and use logic.

Please give me a break everything you say is designed to benefit Jeremy Lin while everything I say is meant to benefit the team as a whole.

That's what you think is happening but it isn't really what's going on. So you're saying Luke put DRuss at the 2 is self-serving in detriment to the team?

And Kenny didn't start Harris at Sf because he isn't a sf and he is incapable of guarding the position. He by no means played well there. That's why he played inconsistent minutes all season and you fail to realize that Harris could've started at SG too but Kenny decided to start Randy freaking foye over him. Why? Because Harris is TRASH.

Na, Harris is too slow to play SG, he's strong enough to guard SFs. At 6'6 he's not really undersized nowadays. (I was saying this at the beginning of the season and Kenny's action says the same) Harris could be said to be trash on a good team, but on last year's team, that's totally wrong, do you honestly believe that Foye is better than him? At the latter part of the season it was more about development anyways, how much pt did Scola get? Harris definitely would have played more if he wasn't injured.

I'm pretty sure marks knows Kenny better than you do and they are on the record saying that they see LeVert as a SG and that sf is the position they need to upgrade most (meaning they want to move LeVert to shooting guard) seriously look it up. They're also on record saying that the 4 is Rondaes natural position.

Ya, when they were looking at Porter vs Foye. Now they got Russell it's a totally different ballgame. And if they get KCP, or JJ? They don't really mind having LVJ at SF.

Also it's always ideal to have a size advantage at your position, which LeVert has at SG but does not at small forward.

It's a negligible consideration. Especially now that versatility and small ball is in vogue. You definitely don't want liability tho and he's not.

I understand that these ideas threaten your favorite players place on the team but I couldn't care less about him.

I honestly hope that Lin plays amazing this season.
But only so that he can raise his trade value and we can flip him for good value and move forward with our backcourt of the future.

But clearly you only care about what's best for Lin not the teams future.

Sorry, I don't respond to ad hominem arguments. OTOH, what you want and what's gonna happen doesn't necessarily coincide. What's good for Lin could be good for the teams future as well. Facilitating PGs are different from other positions, it takes time to mature. You see Lowry with a bunch of young guys, Nash, Kidd etc.

We shall see what happens with the free agency, if they don't get Porter this might be the perimeter for the future.

What's good for Lin isn't going to be good for the future because Lin won't be in this teams future just like how you won't be commenting on this board when he's traded or leaves.

LeVert is fine at small forward but he's best at SG. And you pointing out Harris flaws further proves my point that LeVert was the only person on the roster capable of playing sf. Also your idea that Harris is too slow for SG is just false as he is listed as a shooting guard and whenever he played next to LeVert he was guarding SG. He was also trash last year, extremely one dimensional and constantly chucking up contested ill advised 3s. Randy foye started cause he at least could handle the ball and not have tunnel vision every time he caught it.

Small ball is in but you clearly don't understand what that means. Teams are looking for big 6'8 and 6'9 guys to play at the 3 and 4 instead of 7 footers at the 4 it has nothing to do with having an undersized small forward. small ball 3 just completely ridiculous.

Prok addressed the PG offense comment the only thing funny about it is how your blind love for Lin effects your rational judgement. And it's incredibly clear that your arguments are based on your Linsecurities about his minutes and shots as opposed to the team doing well.

In what world is Lin a pass first pg

Anyway Lin isn't in this teams future he's just gonna be a journey man for the future like his entire career unless Kenny decides to keep him around as a veteran 6th man once we get a real sf. But hopefully he trades him next season so that we can get a valuable piece for the future and all you Lin fans can take your agendas to another board.

[antique0o0]

I'm not sure what else you want to go on..

Eyeball test RHJ is off the charts. shutting down bigs and smalls.

RHJ got 2 all-nba defense votes. winslow none.

RHJ's team was better defensively with him on the floor the miami was with winslow on the floor

RHJs team was worse with him OFF the floor then miami was with winslow OFF the floor.

there is literally no evidence that comes close to suggesting winslow is as good as RHJ on defense, let alone better. and if you factor in offense where RHJ is much better then it becomes an even bigger gap.

you could probably compare how they fare vs. similar opponents. that data isnt readily available unless you have a synergy/stats inc subscription.

what exactly makes you think winslow is a better defender, despite the mountains of evidence otherwise?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Winslow only played 18 games last season. And all of them are at the beginning of the last season, when the heat are kind of trying to figure things out.
In his rookie season, he palyed about 25 min/game in the playoffs. He got those minutes solely for defensive reasons.
Saying RHJ is better than Winslow doesn't convince me for that.

Well convince this board otherwise then, other than you saying Winslow is better...

Don't put words in my mouth.
What I said was "RHJ isn't better than Winslow."

[antique0o0]

I'm not sure what else you want to go on..

Eyeball test RHJ is off the charts. shutting down bigs and smalls.

RHJ got 2 all-nba defense votes. winslow none.

RHJ's team was better defensively with him on the floor the miami was with winslow on the floor

RHJs team was worse with him OFF the floor then miami was with winslow OFF the floor.

there is literally no evidence that comes close to suggesting winslow is as good as RHJ on defense, let alone better. and if you factor in offense where RHJ is much better then it becomes an even bigger gap.

you could probably compare how they fare vs. similar opponents. that data isnt readily available unless you have a synergy/stats inc subscription.

what exactly makes you think winslow is a better defender, despite the mountains of evidence otherwise?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Winslow only played 18 games last season. And all of them are at the beginning of the last season, when the heat are kind of trying to figure things out.
In his rookie season, he palyed about 25 min/game in the playoffs. He got those minutes solely for defensive reasons.
Saying RHJ is better than Winslow doesn't convince me for that.

I dont see how miami cutting winslows minutes in the playoffs is evidence of him being a better defender then RHJ....
he played 29 minutes regular season, so 25 minutes is kind of showing they went with other guys more.


and im not saying RHJ is better then winslow... im providing mountains of evidence that supports that RHJ is better.

His 25 minutes proved his defense is reliable in playoff games.
And those 4 minutes decrease in playing time probably came from his poor offense game.
Your evidences aren't convincing enough for me to conclude "RHJ is a better defender than Winslow. "

[antique0o0]

I'm not sure what else you want to go on..

Eyeball test RHJ is off the charts. shutting down bigs and smalls.

RHJ got 2 all-nba defense votes. winslow none.

RHJ's team was better defensively with him on the floor the miami was with winslow on the floor

RHJs team was worse with him OFF the floor then miami was with winslow OFF the floor.

there is literally no evidence that comes close to suggesting winslow is as good as RHJ on defense, let alone better. and if you factor in offense where RHJ is much better then it becomes an even bigger gap.

you could probably compare how they fare vs. similar opponents. that data isnt readily available unless you have a synergy/stats inc subscription.

what exactly makes you think winslow is a better defender, despite the mountains of evidence otherwise?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Winslow only played 18 games last season. And all of them are at the beginning of the last season, when the heat are kind of trying to figure things out.
In his rookie season, he palyed about 25 min/game in the playoffs. He got those minutes solely for defensive reasons.
Saying RHJ is better than Winslow doesn't convince me for that.

He's not saying that RHJ is a better defender than Winslow, the stats are.

If you wanna disagree with facts and statistics then by all means continue with your baseless claims.

The stats can say a lot of things depending on when and where they are used and who are using them.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Winslow only played 18 games last season. And all of them are at the beginning of the last season, when the heat are kind of trying to figure things out.
In his rookie season, he palyed about 25 min/game in the playoffs. He got those minutes solely for defensive reasons.
Saying RHJ is better than Winslow doesn't convince me for that.

I dont see how miami cutting winslows minutes in the playoffs is evidence of him being a better defender then RHJ....
he played 29 minutes regular season, so 25 minutes is kind of showing they went with other guys more.


and im not saying RHJ is better then winslow... im providing mountains of evidence that supports that RHJ is better.

His 25 minutes proved his defense is reliable in playoff games.
And those 4 minutes decrease in playing time probably came from his poor offense game.
Your evidences aren't convincing enough for me to conclude "RHJ is a better defender than Winslow. "

Well at least he has evidence.

Your evidence is "OMG he got minutes in the playoffs that means he's amazing!!"