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Should Billy King be fired?

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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#121 » by CalamityX12 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:01 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:What I'm seeing is a fusion of "Whether King should be fired for all of his deals that he's done", "whether he's responsible for us being 3-9", and " whether should he be fired for putting us in bad spot with no draft picks for the long term".

I think there are clear and obvious differences for each topic.

Do I think King should be fired for all of his bad deals? Yes, he should've been fired a while ago.
I've ripped on King plenty of times before for his trades.

Are the deals he has done been overpays? Yes of course. In fact, I was one of the few people who called the trade for D-Will an overpay as soon as it happened.

Do I feel he should be fired for mortgaging the future this badly? Oh yeah, of course. It was and still is an extremely foolish thing to do.


But what I'm not responding to is whether King is most responsible for our poor start and for that I'd say no.
Yeah, he should've been fired for his deals in the past and what our future looks like, but if we're solely talking about whether he deserves to be fired for us sucking right now, I don't think so.

We have tons of talent. A lack of talent is not what is causing the problem.

It's a lack of coaching and having a system.

Now, if you want to say that King is more responsible than Kidd because Billy had the final say on his hiring, then yes, I can see that. But what is an important factor for me is that King didn't even want to talk to Kidd but ownership came to BK and said 'hey, take a look at this. It might be good.'

I don't know the relationship that King has with Proky. We can sit here on the outside and think that BK should've just stuck to his guns and said 'no', but even in the interview with Proky during the MIA game, Proky said that he wanted to go with an unconventional approach. We have no idea if ownership's suggestion to BK to take a look at Kidd was merely a suggestion with no attachments or a 'hey, it would be in your best interest to look at Kidd' type of move.

Both King and Proky have said that Proky was the one who presented the idea to King. When your billionaire boss asks you to do something that you've already said 'no' to, you don't think you'd seriously re-think about doing it? Even if it came back to bite you, ownership has to look at themselves and say "hey, we did push for this."

The reason why I'm disagreeing is because the timing of the thread bump really coincides with our current poor play on the court.

This isn't something that been talking about through the summer and fall and therefore I'm looking at this in light of what's going on right now.

I haven't seen people flaming King since draft day and I think it's because we've beat the past and future issues to death so that there's really no need to talk about those anymore. [b]But what's stoking the fire is our present poor play which is reminding us of all the crap he did in the past and how it affects our future.[\b]

I definitely agree with you guys about the past and future stuff. The present is the only small area where I share a difference of opinion.


hit it there on the nose...

i will say its all tied together, the boston move was a desperate reach by King due to his past errors and **** ups IMO, the coaching hire was on him I mean, there was a legit class or pool of potential prospects to be hired however if he did this move bcuz the mgt team wanted then why are you here? they could go and buy a lap dog for cheap. You're the GM act like one...
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#122 » by N Ireland Nets » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:03 pm

King wanted Shaw.

Ownership said why not have a sit down with Kidd to see how it goes, King proceeded to be blown away by Kidd, Kidd gets the job.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#123 » by CalamityX12 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:12 pm

N Ireland Nets wrote:King wanted Shaw.

Ownership said why not have a sit down with Kidd to see how it goes, King proceeded to be blown away by Kidd, Kidd gets the job.

Calamity wanted Shaw
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#124 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:02 pm

The Kidd hiring was a terrible mistake.

Outside of the Wallace trade, I think all of King's moves has been excellent.

But at the end of the day, I blame Deron Williams the most. He wasn't as good as advertised. Not a superstar.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#125 » by FingerRoll » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:53 pm

Celtic fan here....

Why fire King? The GM is supposed to bring the talent to the organization, but it's up to the coach to make them a coherent unit. Kidd's head should roll.


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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#126 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:28 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:The Kidd hiring was a terrible mistake.

Outside of the Wallace trade, I think all of King's moves has been excellent.

But at the end of the day, I blame Deron Williams the most. He wasn't as good as advertised. Not a superstar.


The dude hasn't put together one season of all star ball yet.
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Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#127 » by FingerRoll » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:40 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:The Kidd hiring was a terrible mistake.

Outside of the Wallace trade, I think all of King's moves has been excellent.

But at the end of the day, I blame Deron Williams the most. He wasn't as good as advertised. Not a superstar.


The dude hasn't put together one season of all star ball yet.


All-star ball? How many all-star seasons does the nets current roster have as a whole???

I'm sure a Pop, Jackson, or Rivers would get these gears working in unison. I actually don't even think you need that caliber of a coach. Kidd is just terrible.

The consensus prior to this season was that the nets were contenders and a top team in the east. Meaning, on paper, Billy put together a stellar roster. KG and Pierce were essentially brought in to play the Udonis Haslem/Battier roles. Think about that for a second.

But you need a coach to manage those personalities: who gets touches, who shoots when, etc. The pundits were right, the one flaw on this team is Kidd and it's such a severe problem at this point. This earlier in the season it's not too late to admit a mistake.


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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#128 » by vincecarter4pres » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:31 pm

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Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#129 » by CalamityX12 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:43 pm

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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#130 » by Paradise » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:23 pm

Like I said in the Post Game thread, I never watch college basketball. Yet, I've been extremely invested in watching the talent in this draft and quite frankly, the best looking draft since 2003 and It might actually produce close to 20 all-star caliber players in 5 years. The one year I'm actually into a college basketball season, we don't own any lotto picks and more importantly, don't have anybody on movable deals to get picks past this draft either aside from our best player and probably the best basketball player in NY.

Prokhorov asked for a contender. Wes Alexander or whatever his name is in Houston asked for a contender. Donald Sterling (cheapest and worst owner) asked for a contender but what all of them have in common that we do not is their General Managers who were given a clean slate and all of the money, support and branding in the word, came up with a SMART contender to build around their two cornerstone franchise players.

Deron wanted an NBA player that he could actually win games with, so Billy goes out and trades for Gerald Wallace? Fine. Yet, the Blazers were in massive turmoil, having a fire sale and the deadline is 20 minutes away, they have NO LEVERAGE whatsoever and you decide to folk over a lotto pick and scraps for Wallace without negotiating hardball or even deciding to give up the 2013 1st round pick because again...We were going to assemble a playoff team anyways. What's more sad is he didn't even put any protection on the pick. So, he easily had the option to give them a 2013 1st round pick in that trade which again, was going to be a late 1st round pick because either way, Deron or not. It was confirmed that we were going to assemble a playoff team one way or another.

So, you go from being able to have a Harrison Barnes or Drummond to having Gerald Wallace who only played well 15 games for a contract. If, a GM really had a brain and knew how to use leverage, the Blazers would have probably drafted Mason Plumlee while we could have either kept that 6th pick or traded it for a much better player.

Same goes for the Joe Johnson trade. I understand the panic meter went up since everyone around Deron's camp made it seem like he was leaving but again, you STILL don't put protection on a pick? Then an unnecessary swap on it too? So, you get exploited by Danny Ferry but couldn't exploit Neil Olshey and his situation?

Then, you overpay Gerald Wallace with 40 million because you are afraid of losing him after you mortgaged a high pick for him when in fact, if he didn't give up that pick, he wouldn't have been so desperate to keep Gerald and signing him to such a contract. Now, you handicap yourself to a contract nobody wants.

Next summer later, he decides to add Pierce after failing twice to get him two years prior. Now, he decides to add KG with it. Steal, right? Yeah, so let's not pick any protection on those picks either! Wallace's contract has to go to make KG's money matchup and of course, Ainge wants picks to compensate for the toxic contract and production Gerald has produced a year later after carelessly handing him 40 million.

He had the opportunity to sign Hollins or Brian Shaw but he didn't even attempt to meet with Hollins. Instead, he had a meeting with Shaw for 4 hours and basically was very close to agreeing with him until Kidd "blew him away" in 1 hour and of course, Prokhorov instantly thinks Erik Spolstra 2.0 with this roster on paper.

So, In a short sweet answer: GET HIM OUT. Prokhorov gave him an inch, King took miles. I'm honestly disgusted the future of this franchise hangs between Lopez/Deron's health + a stash euro and 3 picks that at this rate, will be in the mid 20s and 2015/2016 free agency.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#131 » by SJSF » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:06 am

Sixers fan. Billy King was and has never been a good GM. And with all this talent he hired a rookie coach. Dumb move.


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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#132 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:17 am

Billy King is a xanax popping dolt

END HIS TENURE.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#133 » by N Ireland Nets » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:10 am

Me, Jersey General and Vince posted about Kings trades explaining the constant high risk moves he made, especially the Joe Johnson deal. Kings throws in the right to swap picks with us as if it is meaningless and worth nothing. It was a high risk move and he must pay the price.

I remember clearly when we got Johnson, several well known posters on here said I was completely wrong about the pick options when I used potential D Will or Lopez injuries as examples of how we could very easily miss the playoffs.

So when you take a step back and think we don't own our own pick outright until 2019, it's a complete disgrace.

King has made awful deals since taking over as GM of the Nets. The only deal King deserves credit for is the Terrance Williams trade. We sucked for a long time to build up draft picks with cap space and an unlimited spending budget to enable us to put together a good team.

King has ruined us for years to come.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#134 » by DrazenForThree » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:37 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Outside of the Wallace trade, I think all of King's moves has been excellent.


Giving up a first and a pick swap for the worst contract in the NBA. id call that an average move at best.

The dwill move was a slight overpay, and has turned out to be a really poor move as he has been awful and injured outside of a 2 month stretch
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#135 » by DrazenForThree » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:39 pm

N Ireland Nets wrote:Me, Jersey General and Vince posted about Kings trades explaining the constant high risk moves he made, especially the Joe Johnson deal. Kings throws in the right to swap picks with us as if it is meaningless and worth nothing. It was a high risk move and he must pay the price.

I remember clearly when we got Johnson, several well known posters on here said I was completely wrong about the pick options when I used potential D Will or Lopez injuries as examples of how we could very easily miss the playoffs.

So when you take a step back and think we don't own our own pick outright until 2019, it's a complete disgrace.

King has made awful deals since taking over as GM of the Nets. The only deal King deserves credit for is the Terrance Williams trade. We sucked for a long time to build up draft picks with cap space and an unlimited spending budget to enable us to put together a good team.

King has ruined us for years to come.


The worst part for me wouldnt even be missing the playoffs or being a first round exit. the worst part for me is lopez and dwill showcasing themselves not as guys you want to join to try and win a title, but instead guys that are likely to be injury risks and not play with the desire to get you over the hump.

if im durant or love what would i want to come to a brooklyn team that KG couldnt breath life into and who struggles to make it close against teams like the sacramento kings?
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#136 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:57 pm

DrazenForThree wrote:
N Ireland Nets wrote:Me, Jersey General and Vince posted about Kings trades explaining the constant high risk moves he made, especially the Joe Johnson deal. Kings throws in the right to swap picks with us as if it is meaningless and worth nothing. It was a high risk move and he must pay the price.

I remember clearly when we got Johnson, several well known posters on here said I was completely wrong about the pick options when I used potential D Will or Lopez injuries as examples of how we could very easily miss the playoffs.

So when you take a step back and think we don't own our own pick outright until 2019, it's a complete disgrace.

King has made awful deals since taking over as GM of the Nets. The only deal King deserves credit for is the Terrance Williams trade. We sucked for a long time to build up draft picks with cap space and an unlimited spending budget to enable us to put together a good team.

King has ruined us for years to come.


The worst part for me wouldnt even be missing the playoffs or being a first round exit. the worst part for me is lopez and dwill showcasing themselves not as guys you want to join to try and win a title, but instead guys that are likely to be injury risks and not play with the desire to get you over the hump.

if im durant or love what would i want to come to a brooklyn team that KG couldnt breath life into and who struggles to make it close against teams like the sacramento kings?

This is a very good point.

King really backed himself into a very small corner here.

He was bailed out of the Wallace deal and is now touting that we'll be able to avoid the repeater tax and we'll now able to attract free agents in 2016.

But what happens if D-Will and Lopez become injury prone or just simply aren't that good to ensure that the team will be a title contender?

If we suck going into 2016, you can probably kiss any shot of KD and others coming here goodbye.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#137 » by DrazenForThree » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:01 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
DrazenForThree wrote:
N Ireland Nets wrote:Me, Jersey General and Vince posted about Kings trades explaining the constant high risk moves he made, especially the Joe Johnson deal. Kings throws in the right to swap picks with us as if it is meaningless and worth nothing. It was a high risk move and he must pay the price.

I remember clearly when we got Johnson, several well known posters on here said I was completely wrong about the pick options when I used potential D Will or Lopez injuries as examples of how we could very easily miss the playoffs.

So when you take a step back and think we don't own our own pick outright until 2019, it's a complete disgrace.

King has made awful deals since taking over as GM of the Nets. The only deal King deserves credit for is the Terrance Williams trade. We sucked for a long time to build up draft picks with cap space and an unlimited spending budget to enable us to put together a good team.

King has ruined us for years to come.


The worst part for me wouldnt even be missing the playoffs or being a first round exit. the worst part for me is lopez and dwill showcasing themselves not as guys you want to join to try and win a title, but instead guys that are likely to be injury risks and not play with the desire to get you over the hump.

if im durant or love what would i want to come to a brooklyn team that KG couldnt breath life into and who struggles to make it close against teams like the sacramento kings?

This is a very good point.

King really backed himself into a very small corner here.

He was bailed out of the Wallace deal and is now touting that we'll be able to avoid the repeater tax and we'll now able to attract free agents in 2016.

But what happens if D-Will and Lopez become injury prone or just simply aren't that good to ensure that the team will be a title contender?

If we suck going into 2016, you can probably kiss any shot of KD and others coming here goodbye.


yeah, us making noise this year was as much about luring durant then it was actually contending. Does durant really want to rest his title hopes on lopez and williams, especially if he can pair up elswhere?
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#138 » by Paradise » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:27 pm

DrazenForThree wrote:
N Ireland Nets wrote:Me, Jersey General and Vince posted about Kings trades explaining the constant high risk moves he made, especially the Joe Johnson deal. Kings throws in the right to swap picks with us as if it is meaningless and worth nothing. It was a high risk move and he must pay the price.

I remember clearly when we got Johnson, several well known posters on here said I was completely wrong about the pick options when I used potential D Will or Lopez injuries as examples of how we could very easily miss the playoffs.

So when you take a step back and think we don't own our own pick outright until 2019, it's a complete disgrace.

King has made awful deals since taking over as GM of the Nets. The only deal King deserves credit for is the Terrance Williams trade. We sucked for a long time to build up draft picks with cap space and an unlimited spending budget to enable us to put together a good team.

King has ruined us for years to come.


The worst part for me wouldnt even be missing the playoffs or being a first round exit. the worst part for me is lopez and dwill showcasing themselves not as guys you want to join to try and win a title, but instead guys that are likely to be injury risks and not play with the desire to get you over the hump.

if im durant or love what would i want to come to a brooklyn team that KG couldnt breath life into and who struggles to make it close against teams like the sacramento kings?


Lol What does right now have to do with Durant/Love? The Clippers were a joke for years much like Sacramento and Paul signed off on the trade to LA.

The Knicks were a joke for 10 years and a PR nightmare and still were able to get Carmelo. And, even though they are having turmoil with a crappy owner, they are still probably going to land another decent player in 2015.

No player looks at a team right now to base their decision off of joining them. You think Dwight wanted to come here because he knew we had picks, cap space and young players? No, he just wanted to play in NY with a star player.

Durant/Love will look at cap space, big market, ownership and branding.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#139 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:57 pm

CP3 signed off on the trade to LA because Blake Griffin is a young player with a ton of potential and had 20/10 in his first year in the league.

STAT was the one who first came to NYK and when he first came to NYK, he was playing really well (an MVP candidate in the early part of the season in fact) and Melo thought he and STAT could do well together.

LBJ could've went to NYK, CHI, and LAC who had cap space, have the biggest markets and brands in the US.

Instead, he chose MIA because he saw that as the better opportunity to win not 1, not 2, etc.


The players want superteams these days because they want to win. If you have cap space, great, but suck, you can easily get spurned.
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Re: Should Billy King be fired? 

Post#140 » by Paradise » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:09 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:CP3 signed off on the trade to LA because Blake Griffin is a young player with a ton of potential and had 20/10 in his first year in the league.

STAT was the one who first came to NYK and when he first came to NYK, he was playing really well (an MVP candidate in the early part of the season in fact) and Melo thought he and STAT could do well together.

LBJ could've went to NYK, CHI, and LAC who had cap space, have the biggest markets and brands in the US.

Instead, he chose MIA because he saw that as the better opportunity to win not 1, not 2, etc.


The players want superteams these days because they want to win. If you have cap space, great, but suck, you can easily get spurned.

That's all obvious and I get all that but the logic that this team being a contender separates the difference between landing a superstar in 2015/2016 and them deciding against giving this franchise a shot is overacting.

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