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RTT IV: Brought To You By The Great People At MomCorp

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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by PetroNet's <3 4 L 

Post#121 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:14 am

PetroNet wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
Paradise wrote:I still remember the "Kidd is only slightly better than Nash" posts in the Kidd/head coach thread. It's just mind boggling. They hold on to the two MVPs Nash won to prove an argument more than anything.

Wait he wasn't only slightly better?

I've always thought Kidd was the better player then Nash and Kidd was an advanced stat outlier, but let's be real here, he wasn't blowing the doors off Nash by any means.


I feel like impact wise, kidd wasnt just slightly better, but better. not worlds better, but clear that he was the better player.

I think kidd in 2001 and barkley in 1993 are the 2 guys whose impact was far greater then their stats. what those guys did in those respective seasons was remarkable. when they stepped on the floor, they set the tone and pace of the game. it was clearly to all 9 other guys on the floor who was running the show and how the game was going to be played.

people want to debate olojuwon was better the chuck that year, and the stats would give you a great argument. but watching that season and those teams, it isnt debatable, chucks impact was far superior. His will to win could not be topped. he did whatever was needed. everyone knew it was his year. and he let them know everytime he took the floor.

hard to really quantify that

Nash's Suns were incredible teams though. Nash's Suns go to the Finals for like 5 years straight in the East, Kidd's teams struggle for the 4 seed in the West.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by PetroNet's <3 4 L 

Post#122 » by PetroNet » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:25 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:Nash's Suns were incredible teams though. Nash's Suns go to the Finals for like 5 years straight in the East, Kidd's teams struggle for the 4 seed in the West.


those are both fairly accurate assumptions. However, Kidd didnt play with monster offensive players like prime Amare, Prime Marion, and a young joe johnson either.

suns Amare >>> Kenyon
prime marion >> RJ
young JJ > kittles

putt nash on the nets, do they make back to back finals? i dont think they do.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by PetroNet's <3 4 L 

Post#123 » by PetroNet » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:26 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
PetroNet wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:HEY... This is a Non-Basketball Area.


Post a ridiculous image or gif or GTFO!

No, but I still think Nash is the most overrated player in NBA history. People are gonna look back 30-40 years from now and argue Nash was a top 3 player in the 2000's because of his 2 MVP's. Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Kobe and Kidd are all above him.


exactly... not to mention that people are more and more going with advanced stats being the be all end all.

If you're looking to knock Nash down a peg in a comparison versus Stockton, knocking advanced stats is counterproductive to your argument, Stockton's advanced stats were better.


im not super high on stockton. my beef is more with the "nash is a top 4 all-time offensive player" or "nash had a higher offensive impact then jordan" talk

those are absurd
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by PetroNet's <3 4 L 

Post#124 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:29 am

PetroNet wrote:im not super high on stockton. my beef is more with the "nash is a top 4 all-time offensive player" or "nash had a higher offensive impact then jordan" talk

those are absurd

Indeed, but I'm guessing those were minority opinions, not majority unanimity, correct?
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by PetroNet's <3 4 L 

Post#125 » by PetroNet » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:34 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
PetroNet wrote:im not super high on stockton. my beef is more with the "nash is a top 4 all-time offensive player" or "nash had a higher offensive impact then jordan" talk

those are absurd

Indeed, but I'm guessing those were minority opinions, not majority unanimity, correct?


minority, yes... but still talking about a couple dozen posters or more. not counting the ones that pick jordan but "its super close"
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#126 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:55 am

I'm reading that thread right now and although I don't see the "couple dozen posters or more" you're speaking of, what a thread of fail that is. Guys insinuating Deron Williams is a product of a system and we have to see if he's really an All Star, people saying Nash was a system player, who I've seen personally serial kill Mike D'Antoni over the last few years as an awful coach in other threads, and those same people basically excusing Stockton of being a system player as well.

Threads like these make me remember how full of **** people are and why I generally hate people haha.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#127 » by NyCeEvO » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:22 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Threads like these make me remember how full of **** people are and why I generally hate people haha.

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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by PetroNet's <3 4 L 

Post#128 » by Paradise » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:02 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Paradise wrote:I still remember the "Kidd is only slightly better than Nash" posts in the Kidd/head coach thread. It's just mind boggling. They hold on to the two MVPs Nash won to prove an argument more than anything.

Wait he wasn't only slightly better?

I've always thought Kidd was the better player then Nash and Kidd was an advanced stat outlier, but let's be real here, he wasn't blowing the doors off Nash by any means.


He wasn't but impact wise like PetroNet said, I felt he was better. If Kidd had a bad offensive game or racked 5 turnovers in an ugly game, he could still make defensive plays, grab rebounds, etc. Nash on the other hand, either could shoot it very very well, pass it very very well but he could never impact the game defensively like Kidd which IMO, gives him the better edge.

The GB just scoffs at Kidd compared to Nash now like if you are comparing Chris Paul to Telfair or something. It's honestly sickening how they let their bias dictate objectivity. Give them a chance and they would factor in off-court personality to make a comparison. :lol:
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#129 » by therealbig3 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:54 pm

Paradise wrote:Nash on the other hand, either could shoot it very very well, pass it very very well but he could never impact the game defensively like Kidd which IMO, gives him the better edge.


Yes, but the obvious response to this is that Nash's bad games offensively weren't nearly as frequent as Kidd's bad games offensively, which means his poor defense can be overlooked because of how well he's playing offensively.

Look, with regards to Nash...I'm a fan. I'm a fan of (some) advanced stats, even to the point where I sometimes overlook context. But even regarding context, I think Nash in his prime was brilliant. Saying he's a product of a system that just exploited mismatches like Marion at the 4 and Amare at the 5 and a bunch of shooters and playing fast...that's pretty much EXACTLY what the elite offenses today do. They play small ball and they put a ton of shooters on the court to space the floor. And none of them have matched the offensive results of Nash's Suns teams from 05-10. Those Suns revolutionized offense in the NBA today. And even without small ball, and even without playing at a league-leading pace, and even without MDA's "system", Nash was every bit as good. He played 2nd/3rd fiddle in Dallas the whole time, so imo, his explosion in 05 at the age of 30 was more of a guy who had the ability, but finally got the opportunity to be great. He finally had a team built around him.

And specifically with regards to Nash vs Stockton...Stockton is the system player, and Stockton's teams actually played faster than Nash's. There's more evidence for Stockton being a system player than there is for Nash being one. I have zero issue with people taking Kidd or Stockton over Nash, because it depends on what you prefer, but I just get confused by the people that act like it isn't close and that Nash isn't in the same league...the guy absolutely deserved his 2 MVPs (based on the traditional criteria), and he was absolutely a beast and one of the greatest offensive players of all time in his prime. Honestly, I think Nash belongs in the conversation with the greatest offensive forces ever, along with Magic, Jordan, Bird, Shaq, LeBron, and Oscar.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#130 » by jeff1624 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:12 am

I LOVED the second half of Arrested Developments fourth season.

This is how I would rank the episodes based on the characters:

George-Michael
Maeby
Gob
Michael
Lindsay
Buster
Lucille
George Sr
Tobias
Dat Leadership
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#131 » by Rich Rane » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:01 am

Melo says he's not thinking of joining Kobe. He can kick and scream all he wants, but it's...it's gonna happen.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCkq5X8-L_c[/youtube]
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#132 » by bobbyc » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:32 pm

Happy to hear about MSG possibly getting kicked out.

Penn Station really needs a complete renovation. And MSG is ugly as hell.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#133 » by jeff1624 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:43 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilsAhoHCnY4[/youtube]


This entire sequence is fantastic.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#134 » by Paradise » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:59 pm

bobbyc wrote:Happy to hear about MSG possibly getting kicked out.

Penn Station really needs a complete renovation. And MSG is ugly as hell.


I kept hearing about how important the legal battle between Ratner/Barclays and Dolan/Garden for Nassau Coliseum was but I'm starting to see why now.

If there is no permit extension granted and the Garden loses Nassau to the Barclays/Nets management, they will probably either be forced to move the Garden a block up on West 34th or they will most likely have to find a spot outside the NYC area. I can't imagine Dolan dishing out money to build a brand new Garden in Manhattan with property taxes while funding the MeloMax (It's going to happen) and luxury tax. If he does do it, I cannot wait to see ticket prices by then.

"Come see 40 year old Carmelo's retirement tour for $200 per ticket. Once a Knick, always a Knick!"
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#135 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:06 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Threads like these make me remember how full of **** people are and why I generally hate people haha.

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Re: Random Thoughts Thread IV:Sponsored by Steve Nash's Hair 

Post#136 » by Rich Rane » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:35 pm

jeff1624 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilsAhoHCnY4[/youtube]


This entire sequence is fantastic.


I wish we got to see Bob Einstein in Season 4, but there was no part for him.
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Re: RTT IV:Sponsored by 27.1 Minutes Per Game of Alan Chucke 

Post#137 » by Rich Rane » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:54 pm

I don't know why I was watching this, but after watching it, I wish KG and VC were teammates again. And Weis should've never worn his number.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrPjl-927Q[/youtube]

It also never escapes me how close that came from a celebration to a fight between the two.
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Re: RTT IV: Sponsored by National Wing Day 

Post#138 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:54 am

The Google search forums tool is pretty cool.
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Re: RTT IV: Sponsored by National Wing Day 

Post#139 » by Rich Rane » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:02 am

NyCeEvO wrote:The Something search forums tool is pretty cool.


Fixed. You'll understand what that means if you watch the 4th season of Arrested Development.
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Re: RTT IV: Sponsored by National Wing Day 

Post#140 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:18 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzxYUsnZV6M[/youtube]
So great.
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