Official Pierce & KG Thread

[Prokorov]

For a second, I was about to be get baited into your pedantic red-herring straw-man argument you've posted, when I realized that you had LIED and FABRICATED my words to use as a direct quote from me?

At this point, I realize that I can't take you seriously. Being ignorant of rounding numbers or having trouble w reading comprehension is one thing. But lying so you can create a straw man argument reveals that you want an endless debate on this.

I'll pass.

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.htm ... tOrder=DES

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.htm ... tOrder=DES

so in other words, you were wrong, i called you out on it, and now that its out there you are gonna pout. fair enough.

i didnt point out a straw man. your entire argument is based on a flawed hypothesis with faulty data.

1) I didnt lie about KG's record in games he played 26 minutes or more. if anything, you did. I just pointed out the inaccuracies of your numbers, and posted the FACTUAL record of KG when he plays 26 minutes or more. It isnt my fault you picked 26 minutes. its your own fault. but thats what happens why you form and argument first and then hunt for any data that supports it.

2) There are like 3 or 4 other MAJOR factors that I pointed out as to why the nets were better in those games they won. Lopez healthy, Dwills health, etc. That isnt going straw man, its pointing out a MAJOR variable that you completely ignored.

3) I pointed out that KG is more likely to play less time in blowouts, since it doesnt make sense to play a 38 year old guy in game your losing by 20 points. And since we have more blowout losses then wins, that is going to skew the numbers for the "When KG plays less we lose, when he plays more we win" argument. ESPECIALLY given that 20-25 games is such a small sample to begin with

but hey, lets just go with the im a big fat liar thing because i paraphrased what you were saying

[Prokorov]

This is frikin embarrassing, and I've been KG's biggest supporter this season. Using the 26 minute barometer is stupid, because it's such an arbitrary number to pick, and it's not even factually accurate to round up numbers from 25:31 and call it 26 minutes! It is not indicative of KG's impact whatsoever. It's sad when Prokorov is the voice of reason in a debate.

Angrily dismissing posters that point out the clear flaws in your logic is not the way to go. KG has been BAD this season, and no amount of cherry-picking will change that. He needs to step up big time. A lot of his low minute games are a result of the other team blowing us out. He could have easily been out there a few more minutes, played 26 minutes, and that would have affected the Nets record in games he played 26 minutes. It's a completely arbitrary and useless stat.

If you want to provide evidence of KG's impact and make a case for why he should play more...make an argument based on stats (can't do that, because KG's suck), or things like +/- and on/off. But apparently, KG's numbers in those departments suck too. I trust those numbers more than the Nets W-L record when KG plays a random amount of minutes.

Yea, there are just too many factors involved when going on wins and losses since its a team sport with 8-10 guys contributing. When you consider all our injuries(Dwill, Lopez, Pierce in and out of the lineup) it seems pretty silly to go on an arbitrary 26 minute mark for 1 player and point to that as some kind of impactful reason why we are or are not winning games.

As far as KG, i wouldn't say he has been horrible. just because his role is kind of diminished. i view him as reggie evans on steroids. anything he gives us on offense is a plus, and if he defends and rebounds well he is doing his job.

That said, i dont think anyone can say he has played well or good or that there is any justification to playing him a ton more because we he plays more he is more effective. in fact, just a quick look at the scores and eyeballing it his FG% and per36/per minute rebounding/steal/assit/block numbers seem pretty much the same. but id have to do the math to confirm that

[Prokorov]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vEW64oHPH0[/youtube]

Magnificent scoring versatility on display - EVEN at freaking age 36!! Expect plenty more games like this during the remaining 2/3 of a season - if he does not get injured again.

Some great assists & D, & tough rebounds also.

This is the reason why Paul will finish this season as the 18th leading scorer in NBA history approaching 25K points - after he passes Iverson & Ewing, & will finish next season as the 14th leading scorer in NBA history right behind Hondo - after he passes West, Reggie, KG & English.

This is the reason he has a reasonable shot at 2000 made 3s before he retires (1848 right now) - only behind Reggie & Traitor Ray (currently he is #5).

Imagine that after a 17 year HOF career - FOURTEENTH in NBA HISTORY in overall points, & THIRD in NBA history in 3s!

I am not sure he will continue to play in 2015-2016 at age 38. He could possibly return to the Celtics to retire.

i dont care if he doesnt have another game this season where he scores double digit points. if he continues to bring heart/effort like he did that game his impact will be huge. his teammates should all be embarassed they didnt play with half the effort and passion he did. and its a shame he had to be on the losing side.

i dont know how lopez can look pierce in the eyes after that game.

[FirstBallotKG]

For a second, I was about to be get baited into your pedantic red-herring straw-man argument you've posted, when I realized that you had LIED and FABRICATED my words to use as a direct quote from me?

At this point, I realize that I can't take you seriously. Being ignorant of rounding numbers or having trouble w reading comprehension is one thing. But lying so you can create a straw man argument reveals that you want an endless debate on this.

I'll pass.

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.htm ... tOrder=DES

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.htm ... tOrder=DES

so in other words, you were wrong, i called you out on it, and now that its out there you are gonna pout. fair enough.

i didnt point out a straw man. your entire argument is based on a flawed hypothesis with faulty data.

1) I didnt lie about KG's record in games he played 26 minutes or more. if anything, you did. I just pointed out the inaccuracies of your numbers, and posted the FACTUAL record of KG when he plays 26 minutes or more. It isnt my fault you picked 26 minutes. its your own fault. but thats what happens why you form and argument first and then hunt for any data that supports it.

2) There are like 3 or 4 other MAJOR factors that I pointed out as to why the nets were better in those games they won. Lopez healthy, Dwills health, etc. That isnt going straw man, its pointing out a MAJOR variable that you completely ignored.

3) I pointed out that KG is more likely to play less time in blowouts, since it doesnt make sense to play a 38 year old guy in game your losing by 20 points. And since we have more blowout losses then wins, that is going to skew the numbers for the "When KG plays less we lose, when he plays more we win" argument. ESPECIALLY given that 20-25 games is such a small sample to begin with

but hey, lets just go with the I'm a big fat liar thing because i paraphrased what you were saying

Dude, you JUST edited your post where you lied by taking words that I did NOT say...put it into quote block...then proceeded to argue against it: that's classic strawman tactics. If you direct quote me, then that's a different story. Lying about what I said and then creating an argument about it is why I said I'll pass. As long as you quote me directly, I'll respond. However if you ever use strawman tactics, then I will pass as I did last time and anytime in the future.

But to address the rounding up number thing...

1.) I got my information from ESPN and NBA. You got your source from Yahoo. Yahoo includes seconds and minutes; ESPN & NBA round up their minute totals. That's why I said it's a pedantic argument. All three are using the same data, but ESPN was the website that I used; whereas, Yahoo was the site that you used.

But the games that they have included as 26 minutes you had posted this:

He didnt play 26 minutes or against milwaukee: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/brooklyn-ne ... 013120715/"

He didnt play 26 minutes or against miami: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/miami-heat- ... 2013110117

He didn't play 26 minutes or more against the celtics: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boston-celt ... 013121017/

These games Milwaukee Miami Celtics were all found at NBA.com as 26 minutes in http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.htm ... tOrder=DES

Obviously, NBA must be wrong if they are including the SAME EXACT GAMES as I did? Or perhaps you need to reevaluate your position on rounding up numbers. I think the latter.

2.) Talking about Deron & Brook wasn't where I accused you of strawman tactics. It was your block quoting of words that YOU created but then attributed to me as a DIRECT quote.

In regards to all the elements, components involved with winning I agree that Deron & Lopez are exponentially more valuable to the Nets success. That said, my observation was based on the surprising stat in Wins and Losses when KG plays 26 minutes or more. I agree that there is no quantifiable metric to explain the 5-2 record. Perhaps there are intangibles that KG provides? It could be as simple that it makes the substitutions for Kidd easier and for the team when KG plays starter minutes. It could be that KG is able to get his teammates focused on their assignments during heat of action. There are no quantifiable metrics for that, yet those are intangibles that might be responsible for the record when he plays more minutes.

And this is why I said it's a red-herring argument to attack the causation/correlation aspect of the 5-2 record. The only metric that is consistent with the 5-2 record, is Garnett playing 26 minutes and above. Everything else is speculative - which I totally agree with. That said, what is the harm of KG playing 26+ minutes for 5 games? There hasn't been a cogent argument against that yet. The fixation on causation is where you and others are caught up on. I simply want to see more data...see more games where KG plays 26+ minutes and see if the trend continues or not. Sadly, Garnett getting those 26 or more minutes are few and far in between.

3.) I agree that blowouts skew everything. And the Nets have been on the wrong end of many of those the first quarter of the season. Your position is that THAT is the reason why KG doesn't get the minutes. There's some truth to that. However, KG is also clearly under a time-restriction with Jason Kidd. So irrespective of the dynamics of the game, Kidd has pre-determined what KG's minutes will be at the end: under 29 minutes.

Again, broken record time...

What benefit is it to the Nets organization, the fans and the city of NOT finding out if this is correlation or causation? Whether it is correlation or not, why not have 5 games to find out?

[Prokorov]

What benefit is it to the Nets organization, the fans and the city of NOT finding out if this is correlation or causation? Whether it is correlation or not, why not have 5 games to find out?

because its very clearly obvious that it is NOT the correlation. if his output is roughly the same in games he has played 15-20 minutes vs 20-30 minutes or however you want to quantify it, why push him harder?

do you really want KG on the floor in the 4th quarter of a game were losing by 20? which games do you feel like he should have played 5 or 10 minutes more?

I'd rather have KG fresh for later in the season then worry about what he gives me now. plus, he really isnt key to our overall success either way. we need lopez and deron to play well. KG is a glorified roll player now. he could play great for 30mpg and it wont mean jack if lopez plays like he did last game.

not to mention, there is already a logjam at the 4/5 without a few minutes to go around. id rather those go to mirza/evans/plumlee who need the minutes more.

[FirstBallotKG]

I saw KG last season play 29.7 minutes, so playing a couple minutes less doesn't seem like pushing him harder. Incidentally, Kidd shares your position. I share Garnett's former coach's position, he needs more minutes to get into rhythm. Part of adjusting to a new team, new coaching staff, and now new role.

I agree that in games that are out of reach, 20+, there isn't a need for KG to be out there. That said, a clear example of getting minutes in garbage time: Paul Pierce.

When the Nets killed the Sixers the other night, some lamented why is a veteran like Pierce STILL in the game? Well he made a couple of threes in the 4th and it seemed to carry a little momentum into the next game where he was spectacular. I thought Kidd leaving him in was a good move, given how Pierce is also a rhythm player that needs minutes.

I'm glad that Pierce got that opportunity to find his touch through playing in garbage time.

Garnett hasn't played extensively too often this season. And his limited minutes, in my opinion, are the reason for that.

KG is not a star for this team, Deron Lopez & JJ are. Pierce is behind those three with KG as the last option. A glorified role-player seems apt for KG. That said, he's still the team's best rebounder despite playing under 23mpg, for whatever that's worth.

[Prokorov]

I saw KG last season play 29.7 minutes, so playing a couple minutes less doesn't seem like pushing him harder. Incidentally, Kidd shares your position. I share Garnett's former coach's position, he needs more minutes to get into rhythm. Part of adjusting to a new team, new coaching staff, and now new role.

what he did last year is irrelevant. he was a year younger and wasnt a role player. now he is a role player on a win now team and all that matters is he makes it through the year healthy for the playoffs. him playing an extra 5 minutes isnt going to make a difference between winning and losing 99% of the time. him being "in rhythm is kind of irrelevant as well because we really arent asking him to score.

really, what he needs to do is a be a leader and play hard. if he cant play 100% for 20 minutes why would we play hm 25 or 30? he has been a massive failure as a leader. he hasnt played with his normal intensity and he has done 0 to turn brook lopez around. he needs to worry mroe about that and less about rhythm or minutes

I agree that in games that are out of reach, 20+, there isn't a need for KG to be out there. That said, a clear example of getting minutes in garbage time: Paul Pierce.

When the Nets killed the Sixers the other night, some lamented why is a veteran like Pierce STILL in the game? Well he made a couple of threes in the 4th and it seemed to carry a little momentum into the next game where he was spectacular. I thought Kidd leaving him in was a good move, given how Pierce is also a rhythm player that needs minutes.

pierce was coming back from injury. completely different situation then garnett. he also has a bigger role in the offense then garnett.

KG is not a star for this team, Deron Lopez & JJ are. Pierce is behind those three with KG as the last option. A glorified role-player seems apt for KG. That said, he's still the team's best rebounder despite playing under 23mpg, for whatever that's worth.

exactly, and since he isnt a star and is just a role player, you dont need to worry about finding him extra minutes. if anything he could use a game off here and there. being the best rebounder isnt saying much, such lopez is like the worst rebounding big in the league

[FirstBallotKG]

what he did last year is irrelevant. he was a year younger and wasn't a role player. now he is a role player on a win now team and all that matters is he makes it through the year healthy for the playoffs. him playing an extra 5 minutes isn't going to make a difference between winning and losing 99% of the time. him being "in rhythm is kind of irrelevant as well because we really aren't asking him to score.

Agreed he's a role-player now. Agreed that he had a bigger role on the Celts team, that was also a win-now team that wanted him to get ready for the playoffs. My whole observation was based on 26 minutes or more. So I don't know how you can say it doesn't make a difference if he plays 5 minutes more than 22minutes, when the stats reveal otherwise.

really, what he needs to do is a be a leader and play hard. if he cant play 100% for 20 minutes why would we play hm 25 or 30? he has been a massive failure as a leader. he hasn't played with his normal intensity and he has done 0 to turn brook lopez around. he needs to worry mroe about that and less about rhythm or minutes

You and Kidd are on the same page on minute distribution; whereas, I disagree w that completely. I think that if he plays minutes similar to last season, he would get similar numbers to last season. And grading leadership in November & December is a bit premature to be so definitive to call him a massive failure as a leader. Context matters. The Nets 4 additions [Pierce, AK, Terry & KG] have all missed games due to injuries; with Lopez & Deron dealing w injuries as well. And having a Rookie Head Coach at the wheel, has been filled with growing pains [see Lawrence Frank].

pierce was coming back from injury. completely different situation then garnett. he also has a bigger role in the offense then garnett.

Garnett's role is to catch and shoot. His jumper has been shaky this season aside from a handful of games. Getting more reps would be great for boosting his confidence.

exactly, and since he isn't a star and is just a role player, you dont need to worry about finding him extra minutes. if anything he could use a game off here and there. being the best rebounder isnt saying much, such lopez is like the worst rebounding big in the league

It's clear that we differ on minutes for KG. I would prefer if they played him in 2/3rds of the season at the same minutes of last season [29.7]; than have him play all 82 games at his current mpg [a little over 22mpg].

[Prokorov]

Agreed he's a role-player now. Agreed that he had a bigger role on the Celts team, that was also a win-now team that wanted him to get ready for the playoffs. My whole observation was based on 26 minutes or more. So I don't know how you can say it doesn't make a difference if he plays 5 minutes more than 22minutes, when the stats reveal otherwise.

they dont reveal otherwise. as mentioned, there are other factors as to why we won those games when he played 25:31+ minutes. there are other factors as to why we lost when he played less then 25:30 minutes. you are taking W/L on a small skewed sample size and making conclusions off that. i think thats the biggest flaw with your argument.

we arent better off when KG plays a few extra minutes. just like we arent worse off when he plays a few less. we are better off when dwill and lopez are healthy/play well. everything else is pretty irrelevant. KG doesnt have the kind of impact where if he plays 5 more mintues its the difference between winning and losing. its borderline absurd to say he is. especially when you consider his play in games when he plays 25 or more or less then 25 is nearly identical(which isnt good, because he has overall been poor)

You and Kidd are on the same page on minute distribution; whereas, I disagree w that completely. I think that if he plays minutes similar to last season, he would get similar numbers to last season. And grading leadership in November & December is a bit premature to be so definitive to call him a massive failure as a leader. Context matters.

so now context matters? but when starting somewhat definitevly that the nets are better when KG plays more then 25 minutes, context didnt matter? that seems pretty inconsistent. either way, we dont need KG to put up numbers like last year. we likely dont want im shooting as much as last year either. his volume now is about where it should be.

grading in nov/dec is important, given we brought him in to change the culture and provice leadership from day 1. it was our biggest flaw by far - no leaders. he has been a sulking excuse maker so far. and he hasnt brought much intensity on the court. he has been a monumental disappointment from a leadership perspetive

It's clear that we differ on minutes for KG. I would prefer if they played him in 2/3rds of the season at the same minutes of last season [29.7]; than have him play all 82 games at his current mpg [a little over 22mpg].

id rather he play 2/3 season at his current minutes. personally, i think he likely should have retired but was talked out of it. he just doesnt have the fire and passion anymore... or if he does, he hasnt shown it. and thats why we brought him in.

[exculpatory]

Bright spot for the Nets: Paul had his second straight awesomely productive & EFFICIENT game. Also a great overall game with 10 rebounds!!, 5 assists!! & 3 steals!! To be fair, 6 TOs unquestionably sucked & he needs to tone that down to his usual 2+ TOs per game.

Tonight: 24 points on 7-9, & 4-6 from 3. He hit 3 clutch 3s down the stretch including a vintage mega-clutch 3 with 6 seconds left in OT which 'should have' gone down as his umpteenth, ice cold-clutch gamewinner.

2 nights ago: 27 points on 10-12 & 3-5.

Let's see - in 2 successive games, that would be 25.5 PPG shooting 81 **** percent overall & 64 **** % from 3. That is obviously indescribably AWESOME vintage Truth. We are talking LeBron in his prime stuff. He has mixed in his usual elite diversity of shots - threes, vintage step back Js & MULTIPLE aggressive, highly skilled drives to the hoop resulting in a bushel of classic Truth 'and 1s.' He won't get POTW because the Nets lost both games.

The ONLY mother **** reason his shooting fell off a cliff during the 11 games before his fractured shooting hand was finally diagnosed was the INJURY - KG was quoted in the media as saying that Paul was complaining about severe pain in his shooting hand for several weeks before the diagnosis was made.

The multiple posters who declared Paul DOA due to old age should be freaking embarrassed. Same **** happened in 1/2013. He had a horrible month in 1/2013 because, unbeknownst to the public, he was playing with a severely limiting pinched cervical nerve on his right side. Many pronounced him 'toast'. Then the injury abates & he leads the Celtics without Rondo to one of the best records in the NBA in Feb & March (until KG got hurt) - shooting 48% & 42% with an eFG% 61% & generating 3 Trip Dubs.

And guess what? Now that his hand seems to have mostly healed, he is going to continue to **** excel even at age 36 (& help lead the Nets back into contention if Lopez stops playing like a pussy & DWill continues to play very well). Why? Because he is still the mother **** TRUTH.

[JazzMatt13]

I wanted to see if I am only one. But does anyone like KG and Pierce a lot more ever since they came to BK?!

I mean I hated KG when he was on Wolves, and didn't really like him as a Celtic neither. I thought I would hate him just as much as a Net, but found that I kind of like him this year, like as a person, and a player.

[MrDollarBills]

Bright spot for the Nets: Paul had his second straight awesomely productive & EFFICIENT game. Also a great overall game with 10 rebounds!!, 5 assists!! & 3 steals!! To be fair, 6 TOs unquestionably sucked & he needs to tone that down to his usual 2+ TOs per game.

Tonight: 24 points on 7-9, & 4-6 from 3. He hit 3 clutch 3s down the stretch including a vintage mega-clutch 3 with 6 seconds left in OT which 'should have' gone down as his umpteenth, ice cold-clutch gamewinner.

2 nights ago: 27 points on 10-12 & 3-5.

Let's see - in 2 successive games, that would be 25.5 PPG shooting 81 **** percent overall & 64 **** % from 3. That is obviously indescribably AWESOME vintage Truth. We are talking LeBron in his prime stuff. He has mixed in his usual elite diversity of shots - threes, vintage step back Js & MULTIPLE aggressive, highly skilled drives to the hoop resulting in a bushel of classic Truth 'and 1s.' He won't get POTW because the Nets lost both games.

The ONLY mother **** reason his shooting fell off a cliff during the 11 games before his fractured shooting hand was finally diagnosed was the INJURY - KG was quoted in the media as saying that Paul was complaining about severe pain in his shooting hand for several weeks before the diagnosis was made.

The multiple posters who declared Paul DOA due to old age should be freaking embarrassed. Same **** happened in 1/2013. He had a horrible month in 1/2013 because, unbeknownst to the public, he was playing with a severely limiting pinched cervical nerve on his right side. Many pronounced him 'toast'. Then the injury abates & he leads the Celtics without Rondo to one of the best records in the NBA in Feb & March (until KG got hurt) - shooting 48% & 42% with an eFG% 61% & generating 3 Trip Dubs.

And guess what? Now that his hand seems to have mostly healed, he is going to continue to **** excel even at age 36 (& help lead the Nets back into contention if Lopez stops playing like a pussy & DWill continues to play very well). Why? Because he is still the mother **** TRUTH.

We've lost two games in a row. Big whoop

[exculpatory]

Bright spot for the Nets: Paul had his second straight awesomely productive & EFFICIENT game. Also a great overall game with 10 rebounds!!, 5 assists!! & 3 steals!! To be fair, 6 TOs unquestionably sucked & he needs to tone that down to his usual 2+ TOs per game.

Tonight: 24 points on 7-9, & 4-6 from 3. He hit 3 clutch 3s down the stretch including a vintage mega-clutch 3 with 6 seconds left in OT which 'should have' gone down as his umpteenth, ice cold-clutch gamewinner.

2 nights ago: 27 points on 10-12 & 3-5.

Let's see - in 2 successive games, that would be 25.5 PPG shooting 81 **** percent overall & 64 **** % from 3. That is obviously indescribably AWESOME vintage Truth. We are talking LeBron in his prime stuff. He has mixed in his usual elite diversity of shots - threes, vintage step back Js & MULTIPLE aggressive, highly skilled drives to the hoop resulting in a bushel of classic Truth 'and 1s.' He won't get POTW because the Nets lost both games.

The ONLY mother **** reason his shooting fell off a cliff during the 11 games before his fractured shooting hand was finally diagnosed was the INJURY - KG was quoted in the media as saying that Paul was complaining about severe pain in his shooting hand for several weeks before the diagnosis was made.

The multiple posters who declared Paul DOA due to old age should be freaking embarrassed. Same **** happened in 1/2013. He had a horrible month in 1/2013 because, unbeknownst to the public, he was playing with a severely limiting pinched cervical nerve on his right side. Many pronounced him 'toast'. Then the injury abates & he leads the Celtics without Rondo to one of the best records in the NBA in Feb & March (until KG got hurt) - shooting 48% & 42% with an eFG% 61% & generating 3 Trip Dubs.

And guess what? Now that his hand seems to have mostly healed, he is going to continue to **** excel even at age 36 (& help lead the Nets back into contention if Lopez stops playing like a pussy & DWill continues to play very well). Why? Because he is still the mother **** TRUTH.

We've lost two games in a row. Big whoop

Lopez out for season??? Are you freaking kidding me??????????

Does not matter how well Paul plays now. Ballgame over. The End.

[MrDollarBills]

Trade him and tell KG to retire

**** this team.

[Paradise]

According to NBA.com stats, KG averages 66.7% FG% on Drives. But he only drives to the rim 0.3 times per game. So, basically he's really good at getting to the foul line and getting to the rim and finishing but rarely does it.

Can someone tell him to stop taking like 100 jumpers per game? He doesn't even look that bad out there right now at C but his shot selection has been extremely poor.

In contrast, Pierce averages 38% FG% on Drives and he averages 4.1 drives per game. So, he sucks at putting the ball on the floor.

[Prokorov]

According to NBA.com stats, KG averages 66.7% FG% on Drives. But he only drives to the rim 0.3 times per game. So, basically he's really good at getting to the foul line and getting to the rim and finishing but rarely does it.

no, he isnt really good at getting to the rim/foul line. the reason he only does it once every 3 games is because he ISNT good at it. basically, once every few games there is a wide open lane and he smartly takes it, thats about it.


you cant just extrapolate good results on extremely low attempts/volume and expect it will go up.

[Paradise]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MazzESPN/status/418774220316102656[/tweet]

He shot 46% in jumpers last season.

I'm not exactly sure what a defined role has to do with his struggles to consistently shoot open shots.

[NyCeEvO]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MazzESPN/status/418774220316102656[/tweet]

He shot 46% in jumpers last season.

I'm not exactly sure what a defined role has to do with his struggles to consistently shoot open shots.

A lot of basketball players are creatures of habit.

You know how players often have sweet spots on the floor?

Well part of the reason why it's a sweet spot is because the player has established pattern and rhythm of executing from that spot.

Older players especially thrive off routines since their decreased mobility inhibits them from attacking the rim or getting to their spots faster.

For example Shane batter is an exceptional corner 3pts shooter partly because he was always a decent shooter from there and partly because the Heat have implemented a system where that's the only shot he's supposed to take.

So you take a guy who was pretty good at corner 3s and have him practice only that, he'll get comfortable doing that and almost nothing else.

Now when you watch the Heat play, if Batter can't get to his spot or doesn't receive passes at the times he expects he looks like a D-league player. But if you just get him to the corner, he becomes an elite marksman.

That's why these guys shoot hundreds and thousands of shots in off-season workouts. They try to establish a repetitive move and shot that they become comfortable with. If a player doesn't feel comfortable, his shooting percentage will definitely take a hit.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[NyCeEvO]

My two favorite plays from the GSW game were AK47's late game steal and KG's steal and fistpump.

This is the kind of intensity and passion that we sorely lacked in the past:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGoeBQoUdfY[/youtube]

[exculpatory]

TRB3 & I just posted this in the 2/6/14 SA Game Thread. It really belongs here.

I think Pierce deserves some credit. We've all been kind of tough on him, justifiably at times, but he's really stepped up and played like the guy we thought we were getting since he's made the move to PF. He's hitting his jumpers now, he's cut down on the careless TOs, he's leading by example, and he's giving a lot more effort defensively now.

Pierce overall (42 games): 13.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.0 apg, 2.3 TOpg, 42.0% FG/34.4% 3PT/85.1% FT (56.5% TS) ON ONLY 10 FGAs PER GAME!!!

That's really solid production, and he's still having a down year, when you look at his 3pt shooting. Assuming that will normalize...not a lot of teams are getting that kind of offense out of their PF/backup SF.

+75 billion.

Thanks for noticing!

Here are 2 more very impressive & important stats to consider regarding his shooting:

1. His overall numbers were produced on ONLY 10 FGAs per game in 29.6 minutes per game.
For purposes of comparison, last season he took 14 FGAs per game in 33.4 minutes per game.

2. By the month, his overall FG% has DRAMATICALLY improved. Why? He fractured his shooting hand on or about Monday 11/11/13 (as per KG in the NY papers) & played with the painful & debilitating fracture undiagnosed until Friday 11/29/13.

11/2013 - Overall FG% 35% 3PT 23% in 14G (DIRECTLY attributable to undiagnosed fracture) 12.1 PPG

12/2013 - Overall FG% 46%. 3PT 45% in 11 games 12.8 PPG
1/2014 - Overall FG% 43% 3PT 34% in 13 games 14.5 PPG
2/2014 - Overall FG% 54% 3PT 40% in 3 games 17.3 PPG

Having followed him carefully for his entire career, I absolutely knew that something was wrong/off in 11/2013. Paul has been a very efficient/mega-versatile SF scorer/shooter for his entire career. As soon as his hand healed, bingo. BTW, the same thing happened in 2012-2013. He shot horribly in 1/2013 (because of a very limiting unrevealed/non-advertised pinched cervical nerve in his right neck & some cerebrally-challenged nitwits prematurely blasted him) - when the injury abated, he put up All Pro numbers even at age 35 after the ASG/after Rondo went down & led the Celtics to the POs (48% - 42% - TS% 61% - 6.2RPG - 5.6APG - 3 Trip Dubs).

Now you guys are seeing the amazing future HOFER that I promised you in 7/2013 - still incredibly valuable even at age 36!