Realistic options to move deron williams?

[The Infamous1]

Remember People said joe Johnson's contract was untradable

[ghostowl]

Lin's big playoff where Rockets needed a win badly or get eliminated


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS5Wel4hX0g[/youtube]


Kid will replace Dwill just fine. Actually, he's playing at a higher level than him, despite his deflated numbers since he's relegated to play as a spot-up can't-touch-the-ball PG.

[BullsFTW]

I think Houston could be the team to pursue Williams.

[slicedbread2]

Thoughts?

its too complicated. why are the sixers and raptors involved?

just deal williams right to the kings and take any/all contracts they want to send our way

Yea I was trying to jettison as much salary as possible from the Kings and trying to get shorter deals for Brooklyn. Plus they'd want to move Outlaw as well and the Nets can't take him back since they amnestied him. So I threw in the 76ers instead since the owner there would have no problem throwing away J-Rich who is an expiring plus you will need to find a fourth team who'd be willing to take on Outlaw. So I'd modify it instead like this:

Philadelphia: Travis Outlaw, trade exception
LA Clippers: Jason Thompson
Sacramento: Deron Williams
Brooklyn: Willie Green(can be waived,non-guaranteed) Jason Richardson, Carl Landry, Jared Dudley, Jason Terry. Clippers may be willing to send their pick in 2014 or 2017 since they have been looking to dump Dudley plus to stay under the luxury tax, but I think they will keep it or trade it for more picks or future picks.

76ers save a few million and get a trade exception and more cap room that would allow them to absorb some bad expiring deals for more picks as management will be looking to get more picks and a trade exception never hurts.

Clippers get that third big who Doc Rivers has been looking for. Thompson can play the 5 and has the size to do so as a third big and a change of scenery could revitalize his career since his time in Sacramento has been filled with misery so far due to the Maloof disaster.

Kings take a roll of the dice, but ownership has been willing to do that as evidenced by the Rudy Gay trade which has done wonders for them so far. Plus they are looking to win now with Cousins as the centrepiece of the team. D-Will is more of a complimentary player and perhaps a team in a more low pressure environment like Sacramento could do well for him. Plus they get rid of a bunch of players who really don't fit in Sacramento.

Nets are doing this to cut ties with D-fail while shedding payroll and trying to open up as much cap space as possible for 2016-17 where they will only have 11-12 million on the payroll compared to 24-27 million.

If Philadelphia says no, you could try Milwaukee instead and give them Outlaw while Delfino comes to Brooklyn. His last year isn't guaranteed so he'd be essentially an expiring deal.

This would have to be done in the off-season, but overall this would be pretty good as the current rumours circulating are letting it be known that both parties want a split. The other obstacle aside could be that 15% trade kicker and whether D-Will would be willing to waive that as the Kings would probably be requesting that as a condition of taking him on.

[zachari179]

Does anyone else fear that after D-Will gets traded he plays at an all-star level again. Just saying it happens with all my teams. They sign someone lets say for example Mets sign Jason Bay or Granderson and all the sudden they suck but when players leave my teams they realize that they are actually pretty good and kick ass. Blame NY

[NyCeEvO]

Does anyone else fear that after D-Will gets traded he plays at an all-star level again. Just saying it happens with all my teams. They sign someone lets say for example Mets sign Jason Bay or Granderson and all the sudden they suck but when players leave my teams they realize that they are actually pretty good and kick ass. Blame NY

Yeah, I've heard that happens with the Mets. Maybe the fact that we share TV rights with Yankees would change that.

[therealbig3]

Does anyone else fear that after D-Will gets traded he plays at an all-star level again. Just saying it happens with all my teams. They sign someone lets say for example Mets sign Jason Bay or Granderson and all the sudden they suck but when players leave my teams they realize that they are actually pretty good and kick ass. Blame NY

Doesn't matter imo. All that's relevant is that he's never going to play like a star with us. So if he gets traded to Houston, and then all of a sudden has a bounce back year...yeah, it's frustrating, but if he was never going to play that well with us anyway, what did we really miss out on?

Maybe he does need a different system and a different team altogether for him to play well. Fine, I think it works out for both parties in that case. He's never going to get back to form with us, so we need his contract off the books. And maybe he does need a change of scenery for him to return to form, so a trade works out for him.

I just don't know what team out there is going to take the HUGE risk of trading for him and bank on him somehow turning it around?

[therealbig3]

IMO, our best bet is to hold onto him until the trading deadline and see if he really does bounce back or not. If he starts playing well again and gets himself back into the discussion of the top 10 PGs, then he'll have some value again and we can legitimately try to move him to some team that's interested. If he plays poorly again...well, his value can't fall off any further, can it?

We're not really risking anything by seeing what he can do for half a season next year. Ideally, he plays like a star again and we can actually try and get some picks out of him. But I highly doubt that happens.

Oh, and IDC how well he plays next year...if a team is interested in trading for him by the trade deadline...we DO it. Our issue is that we get too enamored with brief moments of vintage Deron and believe that he's back, only for him to come crashing back down to Earth, and with it, whatever trade value he built up by playing well for a stretch. We need to trade players when their value is high, not when we don't want them anymore, because guess what...nobody else wants them anymore at that point either.

[DarkXaero]

IMO, our best bet is to hold onto him until the trading deadline and see if he really does bounce back or not. If he starts playing well again and gets himself back into the discussion of the top 10 PGs, then he'll have some value again and we can legitimately try to move him to some team that's interested. If he plays poorly again...well, his value can't fall off any further, can it?

We're not really risking anything by seeing what he can do for half a season next year. Ideally, he plays like a star again and we can actually try and get some picks out of him. But I highly doubt that happens.

Oh, and IDC how well he plays next year...if a team is interested in trading for him by the trade deadline...we DO it. Our issue is that we get too enamored with brief moments of vintage Deron and believe that he's back, only for him to come crashing back down to Earth, and with it, whatever trade value he built up by playing well for a stretch. We need to trade players when their value is high, not when we don't want them anymore, because guess what...nobody else wants them anymore at that point either.

I agree with most of this. For all the possible trade scenarios with Deron, there is zero point in trading him over the summer. We're likely going to have to give up assets just to dump his contract, and it's just not worth it. The best thing to do is to hold on to him for another year.

Best case scenario, he gets surgery/treatment this offseason for his ankles and gets healthy. Then goes on to have a bounce back year of sorts, re-establishing himself in the top 5-8 PG rankings. He'll have trade value then and we could even get assets back for him. Worst case scenario, like you said, he still has his injury problems and has another sub par year. His value likely doesn't drop any lower, and maybe teams are more open to taking on his contract, because there's less time/money left on the contract.

In the event that it turns out to be the best case scenario, Nets can make a decision on whether to keep him or move him on. I don't think it's necessary to trade him in this scenario, it would become debatable. It really depends on the outlook of the entire team as well, and how competitive we are.

[MGrand15]

I think we just have to hope this guy does some soul searching this summer. He needs to clean up his ankles through surgery ASAP if that's what he needs to do. Get the weight off.

I really think he needs to get back to the basics and just needs to work on his game. I kinda get the sense that during the summer, he wouldn't really touch a basketball. You'd be surprised at the amount of these guys that don't really practice basketball during the summer. Whether it was due to injury or whatever - it seems to be adding up. His handles were as shaky as they've ever been (losing the ball on crossovers, spins, etc.), his jump shot was below average and he never got hot like he used to, his FT% went down 6%, etc.

[therealbig3]

It's funny, because Deron used to be considered one of the hardest working, most competitive players in the game, and he was known for constantly being in the gym.

But between his sulky, half-assed play, his huge regression in his skill level, and the weight issues, his work ethic and dedication have been called into serious question.

Figures that this would happen after WE get him. A guy who was a stud in Utah had to become a lazy, cancerous, overweight POS.

[slicedbread2]

It's funny, because Deron used to be considered one of the hardest working, most competitive players in the game, and he was known for constantly being in the gym.

But between his sulky, half-assed play, his huge regression in his skill level, and the weight issues, his work ethic and dedication have been called into serious question.

Figures that this would happen after WE get him. A guy who was a stud in Utah had to become a lazy, cancerous, overweight POS.

I'm surprised King even touched him at all. I mean you'd figure that the way he pissed off Jerry Sloan and pretty much drove him to quit after the Jazz management told him they wouldn't have his back over the handling of Williams was a red flag, yet they gave the Jazz a decent return and Utah's thinking to themselves thank God we got him outta here.

I think maybe people should realize how well Sloan did in being able to get the most out of Williams. If he had half the passion for the game that Stockton did, he'd be a hell of a player. Sadly, his inactivity regarding maintaining his weight and adding to his game or sticking to what he's good at and settling for less will put him in the what could have been pile.

I mentioned the Kings deal in this thread earlier, but even I'm not so sure they'd touch that. Sadly for Nets fans , either he picks it up or he should be bought out or stretch provisioned. And with age, this will only get worse.

[MrDollarBills]

It's funny, because Deron used to be considered one of the hardest working, most competitive players in the game, and he was known for constantly being in the gym.

But between his sulky, half-assed play, his huge regression in his skill level, and the weight issues, his work ethic and dedication have been called into serious question.

Figures that this would happen after WE get him. A guy who was a stud in Utah had to become a lazy, cancerous, overweight POS.

I'm surprised King even touched him at all. I mean you'd figure that the way he pissed off Jerry Sloan and pretty much drove him to quit after the Jazz management told him they wouldn't have his back over the handling of Williams was a red flag, yet they gave the Jazz a decent return and Utah's thinking to themselves thank God we got him outta here.

I think maybe people should realize how well Sloan did in being able to get the most out of Williams. If he had half the passion for the game that Stockton did, he'd be a hell of a player. Sadly, his inactivity regarding maintaining his weight and adding to his game or sticking to what he's good at and settling for less will put him in the what could have been pile.

I mentioned the Kings deal in this thread earlier, but even I'm not so sure they'd touch that. Sadly for Nets fans , either he picks it up or he should be bought out or stretch provisioned. And with age, this will only get worse.

King was desperate after he was played for a fool by the Nuggets, who only used the Nets to drive up the price for Carmelo, and Utah was waiting there to pounce.

At first, the trade at the time was a no brainer, but in hindsight, when you see a club like Utah nearly trip over themselves to trade a guy like that it should have been a massive red flag.

[Prokorov]

Remember People said joe Johnson's contract was untradable

But Joe Johnson being untradeable was 100% about his contract. he was still an all-star, injury free, a model citizen who never gave coaches a problem, and played aposition that isnt very deep in the league

with williams, its no just his contract. he is no longer an all star. he struggles to stay healthy, he has had attitude issues, and PG might be the deepest position in the league

[Prokorov]

Does anyone else fear that after D-Will gets traded he plays at an all-star level again. Just saying it happens with all my teams. They sign someone lets say for example Mets sign Jason Bay or Granderson and all the sudden they suck but when players leave my teams they realize that they are actually pretty good and kick ass. Blame NY

no... he isnt playing well here and thats all that matters. if he goes elsewhere and wins 5 mvps i wouldnt care, cause that wont happen here.

also, i dont think he will get better, i think from here on out he only gets worse, and maybe even much worse. his body is failing him and he isnt a hard worker and he doesnt have a coach that will push him

[Prokorov]

It's funny, because Deron used to be considered one of the hardest working, most competitive players in the game, and he was known for constantly being in the gym.

But between his sulky, half-assed play, his huge regression in his skill level, and the weight issues, his work ethic and dedication have been called into serious question.

Figures that this would happen after WE get him. A guy who was a stud in Utah had to become a lazy, cancerous, overweight POS.

I'm surprised King even touched him at all. I mean you'd figure that the way he pissed off Jerry Sloan and pretty much drove him to quit after the Jazz management told him they wouldn't have his back over the handling of Williams was a red flag, yet they gave the Jazz a decent return and Utah's thinking to themselves thank God we got him outta here.

I think maybe people should realize how well Sloan did in being able to get the most out of Williams. If he had half the passion for the game that Stockton did, he'd be a hell of a player. Sadly, his inactivity regarding maintaining his weight and adding to his game or sticking to what he's good at and settling for less will put him in the what could have been pile.

I mentioned the Kings deal in this thread earlier, but even I'm not so sure they'd touch that. Sadly for Nets fans , either he picks it up or he should be bought out or stretch provisioned. And with age, this will only get worse.

King was desperate after he was played for a fool by the Nuggets, who only used the Nets to drive up the price for Carmelo, and Utah was waiting there to pounce.

At first, the trade at the time was a no brainer, but in hindsight, when you see a club like Utah nearly trip over themselves to trade a guy like that it should have been a massive red flag.

It was a good trade... lets look at it from all angles:

1) we missed out on wall after 70 losses
2) we couldnt take a lotto team to brooklyn, and had too many project players(favors, yi, etc)
3) williams had 1.5 years left, and was having a good season, and coming off a good season
4) the pieces we gave up, Favors and Enes Kanter, arent exactly tearing up the league
5) trading for williams made dwight howard want to come here, and a possibility. he doesnt consider us otherwise

Of all kings moves, the dwill move is the most defendable, and a good trade given our situation. it was really the bad luck around that trade that hurt us more(dwight waiving his ETO)

[bobbyc]

I think that Deron will regain part of his groove back.

All of these struggles come from the rash of injuries he has had and the lack of confidence in his play ever since those injuries. If he has the surgery and then comes back strong with no set backs he could play at last years level. 19/7.7.

With where his trade value is now, I don't think it makes sense to trade him now.

However, if a foolish team comes in and makes a solid offer I would take it, but that is not happening.

[Prokorov]

I think that Deron will regain part of his groove back.

All of these struggles come from the rash of injuries he has had and the lack of confidence in his play ever since those injuries. If he has the surgery and then comes back strong with no set backs he could play at last years level. 19/7.7.

With where his trade value is now, I don't think it makes sense to trade him now.

However, if a foolish team comes in and makes a solid offer I would take it, but that is not happening.

any offer for deron williams is a solid offer. he is the worst contract in the NBA.

30 year old players who have poor work ethic, bad ankles, and who play with low effort dont get better, they get worse.

[Paradise]

In hindsight, the trade for Deron maybe was bad but It was a very good idea. I can't knock Billy for that one. Say what you want but he wasn't bad at all when he first came here. Sure, he had an attitude but it was somewhat justifiable at that time but he did not really show signs of a crappy average player.

After the Utah/NJ trade:

vs Toronto: 16/11 asts
vs Toronto: 21/18 asts
vs Boston: 16/9/3 stls
vs Chicago: 5/11/1
@ Milwaukee: 18/9 asts
@ New York: 22/8/8 rebs

Hell, the next season without Lopez and a ton of injuries he was really solid and his bad numbers were still pretty productive:

@Cleveland: 16/5/3 stls
vs Indiana: 22/8/2
@Toronto: 24/9/2
vs Atlanta: 15/14/1
@ Denver: 16/13
@ Phoenix: 35/14
Vs GSW: 24/10
Vs CHA: 19/10/2

@ PHI: 34/11
@ CLE: 27/10
vs TOR: 24/6
@ IND: 34/7
@ BOS: 12/81
@ CHA: 57/7
@ MIA: 16/4
VS LAC: 21/10/2

@ CHA: 7/3/1
Vs NOH: 20/12
Vs CLE: 28/8
WSH: 17/4
@ATL: 20/8
Vs IND: 30/9
@ GSW: 9/20/2


Anytime he had a bad game, he followed it with a good or great game. Surprisingly, his numbers to start off last season was not bad at all either.

vs Toronto: 19/9
vs Minnesota: 18/13
@ Miami: 14/3
@ Orlando: 12/4
Vs Cleveland: 26/10
vs Boston: 24/8
@ Sacramento: 14/10
@ LAL: 22/10
vs Portland: 15/12
vs NYK: 16/14
@ OKC: 19/13
@ WSH: 24/10
Vs SAC: 15/7
@ PHI: 22/5

Vs PHX: 15/6
Vs IND: 22/9
Vs TOR: 21/7

I think the constant injuries just exposed him to be a mentally weak player that has never faced adversity and doesn't seem to know how to play through it. That's the biggest area of value for a star player and that's where his value truly plummets. He still has some value as a player because he wasn't that bad a year ago and a year before that which is why Houston was interested but injuries + no confidence = unattractive.

[therealbig3]

I think choosing Deron over CP3, even at the time when Deron was having a really good year, makes the Deron trade bad in hindsight. The numbers always supported CP3, and look at how awesome he's been since, and how badly Deron's fallen off since.

Imagine where we'd be if we had CP3 instead of Deron right now? We would have beaten Miami imo. And we certainly would have won a hell of a lot more than 44 games.