Lopez for Reggie Jackson falls apart; Nets acquire Thad Young for KG (UPDATE: Page 58)

[Keith Van Horn]

I'll just say I like the Thad Young trade, and I'm upset we didn't have other plans for Lopez that we didn't explore. I'm sure some other teams had interest in him and King just didn't do his due diligence.

I'm excited to get things started again, to see what Thad can do, to see what good rest can do, and to see these guys fight for a playoff spot.

[enetric]

I am tearing through all of the updates on that crazy deal and the one thing I cant figure out is...what the hell did Philly get for MCW? Does anyone know?

I think they got the Lakers pick top 5 protected! Not bad at all.

Yeah and I think that pick is 1-3 protected next year. Fans are gonna stop going to 76ers games soon as this rate. Same for our fans lol.

Except the 76ers are doing the right thing. They get one of these picks to be the next big thing they can become a legit contender a few years from now. See Cleveland the last 4 years...See the Thunder before they cheaped out.

[enetric]

It's not about Kanter v. Lopez.

Kanter is young with potential and getting paid very little. He's a RFA. That gives them complete control. If he sucks, they can cut their losses. And if he's good, the restricted free agency will scare teams away from giving him offers.

They also picked up Augustine - who has proven to be a good backup PG and Kyle Singler - who can spread the floor. 2 legit rotation guys.

Compare that to Lopez. They were going to have to make a move for a backup PG. If Lopez played well, he was going to opt out and seek a big contract. If he sucked, he was going to opt-in and they'd be paying him 18 mil next year. He's also an injury risk and doesn't solve their shooting issues. There's also the question of fit. A score first center isn't exactly what they need next to Russ and KD.

Good exchange here. Add in that OKC will always make the penny pinching moves.

I actually don't blame OKC for what they did. A far less price to pay for two serviceable pieces instead of giving us everything for Brook, whose foot will probably break next week.

Did they really pay a far less price? Reggie Jackson was the key piece and they dealt him. They chose the more financially sound move. Sure...you can argue Brook has more downside due the medical history than Kanter but he also has much much much more upside. Have you seen Kanter play? Meh!

I dont blame them however...They are not upside gamblers if they have to put their money on the line. Cap drives all for that team would be the best team in the NBA right now With James Harden still on the roster. Its a shame that organization is small market and runs on small thinking.

[enetric]

Did you ever consider that there werent any other worthwhile deals out there?

The OKC package was horrible and for all of you who knocked the Wallace trade, this would have been worse. Jackson is a non impact player.

And Kanter isnt even half the player Lopez is. The Lopez hate goes ridiculously far on this site.

It's not about Kanter v. Lopez.

Kanter is young with potential and getting paid very little. He's a RFA. That gives them complete control. If he sucks, they can cut their losses. And if he's good, the restricted free agency will scare teams away from giving him offers.

They also picked up Augustine - who has proven to be a good backup PG and Kyle Singler - who can spread the floor. 2 legit rotation guys.

Compare that to Lopez. They were going to have to make a move for a backup PG. If Lopez played well, he was going to opt out and seek a big contract. If he sucked, he was going to opt-in and they'd be paying him 18 mil next year. He's also an injury risk and doesn't solve their shooting issues. There's also the question of fit. A score first center isn't exactly what they need next to Russ and KD.

There is no way in hell that Lopez is opting out, especially if he was traded to OKC. He would have gotten a trade kicker if traded and he might need a 3 year contract just to make up for what he would be giving up. I think we have seen how the rest of the NBA values Lopez and it's not very highly. I doubt he would get more then the MLE.

Kanter is a lose, lose for OKC. If he is good then someone is going to run the price up on them since they have shown an unwillingness to spend (HARDEN DUMP). If he sucks then they dont make the playoffs and KD could sour on resigning with them. They need a proven impact player and Lopez makes a difference on offense. The Thunder dont have a post presence and it has hurt them in the playoffs where just about every team has a quality defensive big. (Duncan, Gasol, Bogut, Howard, Chandler, Jordan, A Davis). Kanter is a BIG IF and when you weigh him against those bigs he just doesnt cut it. Lopez has proven that he can score on just about all of these guys.

I disagree. What someone will pay for a free agent is very different that what they will give up in trade value. 7' who cant do squat but take 5 fouls get paid well in this league. One who can drop 20 and block and couple of shots will absolutely get paid at 27 years of age.

[enetric]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/steven_lebron/status/568509548056743936[/tweet]

lol.

oh well.

Lopez will now walk for nothing, we have no picks, and no hope. This team will plunge into the toilet even further now after today.

Also, Windrem the shill says the Nets, meaning Billy King, feels like OKC screwed them over by backing out in the last second, and not allowing the Nets to have enough time to work a new deal.

This is the same cock sucking GM that led OKC on a few weeks ago and then walked away smugly at the table, thinking he'd be able to get something done at the last minute. So he screws OKC over gleefully a few weeks back, and is now upset that they trolled him?

With how fast that Utah development happened, I would not be shocked if OKC had that deal on the table well before initiating talks with the Nets today.

enetric talked about dark days if we had made that trade? wait until Lopez walks for nothing in the offseason, since we can't do sign and trade deals.

I was OK with the trade. And I am OK if he does walk. That wasnt my point. My point was I dont know how you were able to list the potential roster like that and add the word excitement. Blow it all up...fire the coach fire the GM and lets start again. Whatever. It didnt work lets not put a cheap bandaid on a gaping wound and call it a lifesaver.

This conveniently left out Jack and Karasev.

All in all, the only player worth crying about is Lilliard. Plumlee and Favors are basically the same level of player and Kanter isnt a good player. We got a good playoff run out of the deals as well last year. It's easy to look back after everything and be critical but if we got Paul instead of DWill, we would have had a chance a a chip. He is the single biggest reason this era failed. Johnson and Pierce won us a playoff series while Garnett turned Plumlee into a good NBA player and just got us Young.

I think we will make the 7th seed after this trade if we resign Blatche. It was annoying having to ceremonially start KG when he was obviously not our best option at PF.

I agree about Lillard. He is the only move really worth crying about.
I like Plumlee but disagree he is comparable to Favors. Favors is better at this point even with issues.
I agree about Kanter.
I agree about the playoffs last year. Upside was conference finals had we not faced Miami in round 2. Had Lopez been healthy once the team gelled I think we would have had a better record and could have beaten Indiana at full strength. But you cant beat major injuries and Lopez hate aside yes...I do think he was the best player on the team the last few years because....

YEAH... DWILL IS THE REASON THIS ALL FAILED! He IS NO SUPERSTAR!

If we do make the playoffs its on Hollins figuring out how to best utilize Lopez. Again..hate aside...there isnt a better option.

[CalamityX12]

I get everyone is all emo over the whole Lopez/Jackson situation but this is clearly an upgrade. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Will we miss Garnett? Absolutely. His intangibles were helpful along with his rebounding, man to man D and mid-range shot but he couldn't score in the paint or finish at the rim. He also couldn't keep up with quicker big men.

Young is clearly a better player at this point. I'm not even sure how this is even a discussion.

Maybe offensively it is an upgrade or at least potentially but I'm not(nor were you) going to underrate KG's impact on the court n off. As an outsider fan, I believe he was the leadership and voice of the players. His vast experience, constant energy/spirits, intensity, that's something most of his teammates cant combine to match. The scoring inside the paint was left for Plums n Lopez IMO so as long as KG can hit those jumpshots or easy buckets, i'm good with because he did everything else...

Idk about that with Young. We'll have to see for sure. He's an undersized PF under a coach who likes big men and doesn't necessarily play fast(that would be greatly utilized by Kidd)

We're 21-31. What leadership has he provided exactly? KG at this point can only provide defensive rebounding and mid-range shooting to the table. The work ethic of KG certainly helped Mason but it hasn't done a damn thing for Lopez, Williams.

Idk if the record and KG's leadership can be correlated... if anything one could say it could be worse. We know we have fight in KG, we also know we don't have fight in Dwill n Lopez...

As for those two, that's on them. Been around long enough, if them two can't get that extra gear or grow some teeth that speaks to their personalities and mindset IMO.

All I know is the most hyped up guy, the guy with more passion outside of Plumlee now might be tied to Hollins and Lopez's urge to high five teammates...

[enetric]

I was OK with the trade. And I am OK if he does walk. That wasnt my point. My point was I dont know how you were able to list the potential roster like that and add the word excitement. Blow it all up...fire the coach fire the GM and lets start again. Whatever. It didnt work lets not put a cheap bandaid on a gaping wound and call it a lifesaver.

This conveniently left out Jack and Karasev.

All in all, the only player worth crying about is Lilliard. Plumlee and Favors are basically the same level of player and Kanter isnt a good player. We got a good playoff run out of the deals as well last year. It's easy to look back after everything and be critical but if we got Paul instead of DWill, we would have had a chance a a chip. He is the single biggest reason this era failed. Johnson and Pierce won us a playoff series while Garnett turned Plumlee into a good NBA player and just got us Young.

I think we will make the 7th seed after this trade if we resign Blatche. It was annoying having to ceremonially start KG when he was obviously not our best option at PF.

There are other things to be upset with. In addition to the moronic Gerald Wallace trade, the contract we gave him was equally as dumb. In our deal with the Celtics we essentially traded a pick for Paul, a pick for KG, a pick for them to take Gerald Wallace, and pick swaps because Billi King loves giving them out. Without having to eat Gerald Wallace for 3 years/$30, we could've got away with getting them for two 1st round picks.

The pick swaps and the 1st given forJoe were unnecessary.

If he didn't trade for Wallace we could've had Harrison Barnes who is just what this team needed
If he didn't extend Wallace to the tune of 4 years/$40 million. We would have control of our own pick before 2019.
If he didn't throw in the swaps in the Joe deal we wouldn't be worrying about sending a lotto pick to Atlanta this year.

Who knows how things shakeout exactly in MDB's diagram, but those three things he did really set the franchise back.

Yeah but see the crying over picks is the revisionist history of it all. This happens all the time. When trades like these are made the attitude is wow you stole so and so. All you gave up were picks or pick swaps? And at the time you are a playoff team and you look at the roster and see the other team and you think...no way they are better than us in 2 years to do the pick swap. Or...hey we will be a 50+ win team with this roster so no worries they will be crap picks.

See Miami landing Dragic yesterday as a free agent to be for 2 first rounders. The reaction was...wow hey how come they always steal players? But say those picks turn out to be good later and Dragic flops or walks as a free agent? The revisionist history will be wow they got killed on that trade.

I laugh at how all of sudden Boston KILLED us in this trade because of how it turned out. For anyone who watched the NBA draft that day it was especially entertaining to watch Bill Simmons piss and moan all night about how terrible that trade was for Boston and how shocked he was that Ainge got absolutely nothing in that deal. Just goes to show you...never trust comedic homer fan boy media personalities who gain some popularity and suddenly people think they have a clue what they are talking about. We got what we needed at time and traded up and they got what they needed for the future. Trade of directions as it should be. Perfectly justified on both sides.

See, for us the Boston trade was the logical move to make as a result of the previous moves to build the so called big 3 or soft 3 if you prefer. I am grateful to have an ownership that would green light a move that aggressive to try and fill in the blanks. If it would have worked no one would be crying about the picks. So dont do it after the fact. We took our shot...didnt work out. You either understand what "ALL IN" means or you don't. Its not just a cute phrase in a cap structured league. It means you go in and you will be pay for it at some point. So I say it again....MARGIN CALLED.

[Prokorov]

Did they really pay a far less price? Reggie Jackson was the key piece and they dealt him. They chose the more financially sound move. Sure...you can argue Brook has more downside due the medical history than Kanter but he also has much much much more upside. Have you seen Kanter play? Meh!

yea... is he really any worse then lopez? have you seen lopez play recently?

Kanter 14/8 on 49FG% 54%TS and 17.5 PER goes

Lopez 15/6 on 50FG% 54%TS 20 PER

Lopez shoots 38.9% on 16 foot jumpers Kanter is at 36.4%

Lopez goes to the line 42 times a game Kanter 2.9

Both play 27 minutes a game

is lopez really much better? Is lopez play really more then "meh"

I know i hate i lopez, i know i probabyl undervalue him. But honestly what are you seeing where lopez is some monster upgrade to kanter, a much better player then reggie jackson, or a guy who has some kind of big impact on winning? I may go overboard, but im not far off either. and i dont just spout retoric, the numbers back this stuff up.

We can blame the coach, but i mean 4 coaches, 3 different rosters, 3 different systems and the guy hasnt really fit or had a big impact on winning on any of them. closest was when the team threw in 2 guys who dont ever shoot and had him take turns with johnson and williams. we've gone big, we've gone small. weve put shooters next to him. weve put big defending rebounder next to ghim. we started him. we brought him off the bench. he is who he is. a pretty 1 dimensional player whose dominant performances are pretty few and far between.

I'm not sure a halfcourt 18 point a game big who doesnt really give you a "plus" in any other category really has the impact you are implying he does. if he did, we wouldnt be 10 games under .500 and wouldnt have underachieved every year. it isnt all his fault, the losing and underachieving, but impact bigs help you overcome that, that dont keep you underachieving

[enetric]

Why didn't king have a backup plan?

I don't want to trade lopez for nothing, but we should have moved him today.

Still can't believe we didn't do the Zeller and Stephenson deal.


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I dont understand all the back up plan posts. As if there are always trades to be found and you should do one at all costs. As for Lance...he sucks get over it.

You're right, glad we did nothing else. This team was a lot better standing pat. We will also make the playoffs.

No wait you are right. We just should have gone to the mall and said, "I would like to exchange these players please". Doesn't matter for what. Just give me whatever you have back there.

You are trying to simplify something and talk yourself into false hope over absolute garbage. There was no need to trade Lopez at all costs. If there is a good trade you make it. If not...too bad.

[F3LON]

I think they got the Lakers pick top 5 protected! Not bad at all.

Yeah and I think that pick is 1-3 protected next year. Fans are gonna stop going to 76ers games soon as this rate. Same for our fans lol.

Except the 76ers are doing the right thing. The get one of these picks the be the next big thing they can become a legit contender a few years from now. See Cleveland the last 4 years...See the Thunder before they cheaped out.

I couldnt disagree more. What Philly is doing will backfire horribly. They are poisoning the well by showing the players that winning isnt important.

I dont believe that you can just have a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players come together and be good. Every team needs veteran leadership to guide young players. You ideally want rookies to come into an environment where there are more vets then young guys. Philly doesnt have any veteran leaders and the inmates will eventually run the asylum. This is a big reason why Minny brought KG in and plan to resign him. They want him to mentor Wiggins, Mohhamed and Bennett.

They will also run into problems with salary. Yeah it's nice to have a bunch of rookie contracts but when it's time for those guys to get paid, it will cause internal friction.

[Prokorov]

Yeah but see the crying over picks is the revisionist history of it all. This happens all the time. When trades like these are made the attitude is wow you stole so and so. All you gave up were picks or pick swaps? And at the time you are a playoff team and you look at the roster and see the other team and you think...no way they are better than us in 2 years to do the pick swap. Or...hey we will be a 50+ win team with this roster so no worries they will be crap picks.

I have to take you to task here.... this board was livid AT THE TIME when the wallace deal happened. a few supported it but most were up in arms we gave them our own first rounder in a loaded draft. This board was upset when VC4P pointed out there was a pick swap in the JJ trade. most still liked the deal but alot agreed it was an overpay.

there was no revisionist history on those, we were vocal back then about those picks and pick swaps.

I laugh at how all of sudden Boston KILLED us in this trade because of how it turned out. For anyone who watched the NBA draft that day it was especially entertaining to watch Bill Simmons piss and moan all night about how terrible that trade was for Boston and how shocked he was that Ainge got absolutely nothing in that deal. Just goes to show you...never trust comedic homer fan boy media personalities who gain some popularity and suddenly people think they have a clue what they are talking about. We got what we needed at time and traded up and they got what they needed for the future. Trade of directions as it should be. Perfectly justified on both sides.

This i agree 100%. the boston trade was still an excellent deal and one id do again 100 times over. It was maximizing our situation and the picks we gave up really arent that great and so far have produced james young. We got to the second round of the playoffs, the best we have done in nearly a decade since kidd and carter were here because of that trade. with lopez going down had we not had pierce and KG we dont make the playoffs.

[enetric]

Why didn't king have a backup plan?

I don't want to trade lopez for nothing, but we should have moved him today.

Still can't believe we didn't do the Zeller and Stephenson deal.


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I dont understand all the back up plan posts. As if there are always trades to be found and you should do one at all costs. As for Lance...he sucks get over it.

Lance represents the highest upside. Since our team has nothing to lose by bringing him in they should have took him for the pennies on the dollar he represents.

Well, see here is the thing. I feel pretty confident that Lance's upside was last year which doesnt touch the best we have seen of Lopez. And his reality is closer to what we are seeing THIS YEAR. And sadly...through the Lopez hate so many of you have ignored one simple fact. Lance has been far worse this season than Brook!

[kerry kittles]

This conveniently left out Jack and Karasev.

All in all, the only player worth crying about is Lilliard. Plumlee and Favors are basically the same level of player and Kanter isnt a good player. We got a good playoff run out of the deals as well last year. It's easy to look back after everything and be critical but if we got Paul instead of DWill, we would have had a chance a a chip. He is the single biggest reason this era failed. Johnson and Pierce won us a playoff series while Garnett turned Plumlee into a good NBA player and just got us Young.

I think we will make the 7th seed after this trade if we resign Blatche. It was annoying having to ceremonially start KG when he was obviously not our best option at PF.

There are other things to be upset with. In addition to the moronic Gerald Wallace trade, the contract we gave him was equally as dumb. In our deal with the Celtics we essentially traded a pick for Paul, a pick for KG, a pick for them to take Gerald Wallace, and pick swaps because Billi King loves giving them out. Without having to eat Gerald Wallace for 3 years/$30, we could've got away with getting them for two 1st round picks.

The pick swaps and the 1st given forJoe were unnecessary.

If he didn't trade for Wallace we could've had Harrison Barnes who is just what this team needed
If he didn't extend Wallace to the tune of 4 years/$40 million. We would have control of our own pick before 2019.
If he didn't throw in the swaps in the Joe deal we wouldn't be worrying about sending a lotto pick to Atlanta this year.

Who knows how things shakeout exactly in MDB's diagram, but those three things he did really set the franchise back.

Yeah but see the crying over picks is the revisionist history of it all. This happens all the time. When trades like these are made the attitude is wow you stole so and so. All you gave up were picks or pick swaps? And at the time you are a playoff team and you look at the roster and see the other team and you think...no way they are better than us in 2 years to do the pick swap. Or...hey we will be a 50+ win team with this roster so no worries they will be crap picks.

See Miami landing Dragic yesterday as a free agent to be for 2 first rounders. The reaction was...wow hey how come they always steal players? But say those picks turn out to be good later and Dragic flops or walks as a free agent? The revisionist history will be wow they got killed on that trade.

I laugh at how all of sudden Boston KILLED us in this trade because of how it turned out. For anyone who watched the NBA draft that day it was especially entertaining to watch Bill Simmons piss and moan all night about how terrible that trade was for Boston and how shocked he was that Ainge got absolutely nothing in that deal. Just goes to show you...never trust comedic homer fan boy media personalities who gain some popularity and suddenly people think they have a clue what they are talking about. We got what we needed at time and traded up and they got what they needed for the future. Trade of directions as it should be. Perfectly justified on both sides.

See, for us the Boston trade was the logical move to make as a result of the previous moves to build the so called big 3 or soft 3 if you prefer. I am grateful to have an ownership that would green light a move that aggressive to try and fill in the blanks. If it would have worked no one would be crying about the picks. So dont do it after the fact. We took our shot...didnt work out. You either understand what "ALL IN" means or you don't. Its not just a cute phrase in a cap structured league. It means you go in and you will be pay for it at some point. So I say it again....MARGIN CALLED.

I'm not crying over the Boston trade. There are three things King that made no sense at at time and don't make sense now and three things that really hurt this franchise.

1. The Gerald Wallace trade
2. Giving a 30 year old Gerald Wallace a 4 year/$40 million contract. Why give a 4 year contract to a guy who is on the decline whose game is predicated on athleticism. We had to give Boston a pick to take him and would've had to give any team a 1st to move him.
3. The swaps and 1st in the Joe trade. Joe's contract had negative value. I understand the concept of the trade as they wanted a better product in their 1st season in Brooklyn, but King overpaid.

[Prokorov]

No wait you are right. We just should have gone to the mall and said, "I would like to exchange these players please". Doesn't matter for what. Just give me whatever you have back there.

You are trying to simplify something and talk yourself into false hope over absolute garbage. There was no need to trade Lopez at all costs. If there is a good trade you make it. If not...too bad.

I hear you but i think you are exagerating the situation. It isnt like we would have had to pay philyl a first and karasev to take on lopez. there were some deals out there. and none of those deals changed our cap situation or plans for the future... all the contracts ran in line with or shorter then lopez.

I know Lance is overhyped here, but is it really out of the question that if we had lance/zeller instead of lopez that we could make the playoffs?

I guess the question i have for you in particular with is, what is your best case plan for lopez? are you signing him to an extension to stay here. because unless you are, then i really dont see the benefit of keeping him around. He isnt helping us win, whether its on him or not that is the reality. why not make a change and fill SG and see what happens this year. we dont chagne future plans doing so.

Maybe im reading this wrong, but i feel like you expect that lopez if used right by hollins should be an impact 20/7 type big good enough to help us make the playoffs. and i guess i really dont see that.

[enetric]

You got a more financially sound deal. But Kanter is not a better player than Lopez.

Lopez is marginally better, that's true, but add in Augustin and it's a better deal on court and a significantly better deal in terms of upside, health and finances.

Here's the thing. I think Lopez is massively better. For all the bad things people can say at times about Lopez...my lord wait to you get a good look at Kanter! I would absolutely rather have the upside of a 26 year guy who has already been an all star in this league than what I have seen from Kanter.

And Augustin is a solid serviceable back up PG. If you were poised to make a good playoff run sure I can see the big whoop about that. But you arent. So filling that role is something you could have done in the off season. There is always a serviceable backup PG to be had.

You made a financially driven penny pinching move as your franchise always does. You aren't an upside team. You think small and its reason why your franchise wont get over the hump. If Durant is smart he knew the reality the second Harden wasnt kept over a few mil.

[Keith Van Horn]

I dont understand all the back up plan posts. As if there are always trades to be found and you should do one at all costs. As for Lance...he sucks get over it.

You're right, glad we did nothing else. This team was a lot better standing pat. We will also make the playoffs.

No wait you are right. We just should have gone to the mall and said, "I would like to exchange these players please". Doesn't matter for what. Just give me whatever you have back there.

You are trying to simplify something and talk yourself into false hope over absolute garbage. There was no need to trade Lopez at all costs. If there is a good trade you make it. If not...too bad.

The only person who was on board with trade Lopez for "whatever other teams have" was Prokorov. He wanted McGee for Lopez straight up. I don't think we should have traded him at any cost. Come on. All I'm saying is that he should have explored more options. He publicly says he's shopping his core 3, then later says he's not making any calls... WTF kind of GM do we have?

I'm hoping to hope that Lopez does good for us. But I've grown tired of his inconsistency and empty stats. I would rather take on a different set of players now and try again. And I believe 99% of the fan base agrees with this logic. They feel the same way about Deron. Joe is the only guy that can be defended b/c of what he's done in recent history.

[Prokorov]

Well, see here is the thing. I feel pretty confident that Lance's upside was last year which doesnt touch the best we have seen of Lopez. And his reality is closer to what we are seeing THIS YEAR. And sadly...through the Lopez hate so many of you have ignored one simple fact. Lance has been far worse this season than Brook!

What has brook given us this year? he is having one of, if not his worst seasons. he is taking more and more jump shots(nearly 3 times as many as his career avg) while making them on a low clip. he gets to the ft line less. and his rebounding and D is no better then it ever was before.

Lance is having a bad year too. is he worse then brook? you can argue that. i think you can also argue that we need a SG more then a center and that lance would be more of an upgrade to bogs to the point were the net result is more of a positive.

either way, i dont think you caught the gist of what he was saying... which is "whats the downside?"

- is lopez going to help us make the playoffs in your mind? if yes, why do you feel that he hasnt so far and what will change?
- is lance going to be so bad that it cause something besides missing the playoffs to happen? hurt the franchise in some way?

I just dont see the angle of how swapping lopez for lance has some kind of big downside. you have argued lopez is better, made good points on lance being overrated, but you havent addressed what the downside is. if lance doesnt work, what is different from now?

-we still miss playoffs like we currently project to
-we still have the same cap situation we would

I've seen you say people are thinking of "the now" and not the big picture and direction, but this trade doesnt effect the future trajectory, cap, or plan moving forward as well. it is a good move to try and maximize now without effecting the longterm vision.

The only way i see the beef is if you advocate extending lopez?

[F3LON]

I dont understand all the back up plan posts. As if there are always trades to be found and you should do one at all costs. As for Lance...he sucks get over it.

Lance represents the highest upside. Since our team has nothing to lose by bringing him in they should have took him for the pennies on the dollar he represents.

Well, see here is the thing. I feel pretty confident that Lance's upside was last year which doesnt touch the best we have seen of Lopez. And his reality is closer to what we are seeing THIS YEAR. And sadly...through the Lopez hate so many of you have ignored one simple fact. Lance has been far worse this season than Brook!

I disagree about Lance's upside but assuming he is only as good as last year then he is still better then Lopez. Lopez hasnt developed at all. He is still just a scorer and rim protector. He is a bad defender, cant pass out of a double team and still cant rebound. We have Plumlee to start if we traded Lopez, have the inside track on resigning Blatche because of his bird rights and Jerome Jordan is a perfectly functional backup big. Anderson has been our best SG which speaks to how bad we are at the position. Both Bogs and Karasev are SFs and Brown hasnt shown enough to trust he is the answer. We could have easily replaced Lopez's production while strengthing our biggest need.

With that said, Im glad we didnt trade Lopez for the trash that we were offered for him. Lance has All Star upside as Lopez does so that's why I would be OK with that trade. Reggie Jackson on the other hand is nothing more then a middle of the pack PG who will be grossly overpaid.

[Prokorov]

You got a more financially sound deal. But Kanter is not a better player than Lopez.

Lopez is marginally better, that's true, but add in Augustin and it's a better deal on court and a significantly better deal in terms of upside, health and finances.

Here's the thing. I think Lopez is massively better. For all the bad things people can say at times about Lopez...my lord wait to you get a good look at Kanter! I would absolutely rather have the upside of a 26 year guy who has already been an all star in this league than what I have seen from Kanter.

And Augustin is a solid serviceable back up PG. If you were poised to make a good playoff run sure I can see the big whoop about that. But you arent. So filling that role is something you could have done in the off season. There is always a serviceable backup PG to be had.

You made a financially driven penny pinching move as your franchise always does. You aren't an upside team. You think small and its reason why your franchise wont get over the hump. If Durant is smart he knew the reality the second Harden wasnt kept over a few mil.

Why do you feel lopez is "massively better" then Kanter. i agree kanter isnt special, but what makes lopez so much better in your mind? ive seen some kanter, not a ton. ive seen every game lopez has played, some more then once. what is lopez massively better at, that actually translates?

[enetric]

King **** himself. As always.

Presti did what a good GM does. Have multiple options. Work the phones for awhile. Talk to multiple teams.

This could've been a done deal WEEKS ago. Billy decided to wait until the day of the deadline to talk to ONLY OKC about Brook. Literally nothing else was floated out there. Embarrassing that one team pulling out leaves us without any options. Of course, OKC gets a MUCH better deal and we get absolutely nothing.

Like anyone here has a freakin' idea what phone calls were had. All this speculation is just sour grapes.

More than likely every GM was spoken to at some point. King has never had a problem making trades if they are out there. His issue is typically not knowing when to pass on bad trades.

We know that OKC thought this was a done deal weeks ago and were upset that Billy King pulled out.

We know that Billy King didn't sign off on Lance Stephenson and took that option off the table.

We know that Billy was left dumbfounded and with no options when OKC pulled out. Even though an avalanche of trades happened afterwards and people were willing to wheel and deal.

You're right, I don't know what phone calls were had or what the options were. I just think Billy overplayed his hands by waiting until the deadline instead of aggressively shopping guys around. He clearly didn't do that. He said he wasn't aggressive, sources say he wasn't aggressive. It's clear he thought OKC or some desperate team would be forced to make a move at the deadline and failed. Badly.

I'm not a huge Lopez hater - I just think this team really, really needed a shake up.

First off, this wasnt the offer from OKC a few weeks ago.. My understanding no Reggie Jackson in that deal. Thus...nothing to talk about. That's WHY GM's wait until the deadline. To get a deal worth discussing.

Next...I am grateful he didnt do Lance the player aspect because I dont hold the guy in high regard. I think that was a guy who found a moment where he fit perfectly and got paid. See Mo Williams all star season next to LBJ or Gerald Green.

Next, my problem is with your assumption that he didnt shop guys around...and by him I mean the organization. You make that assumption because I a deal wasnt made. My observation of King isnt that he has trouble making deals So now that he stands pat and it doesnt jive with what some wanted to see happen we assume he must have been going to spa during lunch the last few weeks instead of making 29 phone calls?

You say its CLEAR he thought X? I dont think that is clear at all.

To me it looks like he backed out of two trades he didnt think offered us much a couple of weeks ago but did in fact get one of those teams to up their ante to an offer he wanted. They opted to go elsewhere. The fact that no other deal was made could mean he simply didnt like any other options presented or there werent good match ups salary wise.

I am not a fan of Billy King. But its far to easy to make assumptions when we dont know what goes down behind the scenes.