Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Netaman]

What comparison people have Herro to be hus ceiling?

I've been against the addition due to cost from the start.

It's not like we had KD n need Herro to compliment

i think the Herro ceiling is somewhere close to Klay and while i dont think he's nearly Steph's level, I do think he has some steph-elements to his game that Klay doesn't have. ironically the biggest question whether he reaches whatever his ceiling is for me is his shooting, which is his elite trait. I think he is already probably a little more functional on the ball and a little more dynamic at the non-shooting stuff than Klay was. He is a pretty close to elite shooter and scored 20 ppg, but he hasn't put up the 42-45% league leading shooting %'s yet. If he's a 20 ppg scorer at 38/39%, what does he become at 42-44% if he gets there?

Reddick/Huerter is the floor, he is already scoring better than them and a more well rounded player at a younger age. that floor imo makes it unlikely his contract is ever too far under water and the ceiling given his age along with the culture fit is why id be willing to roll the dice on him.

in terms of comparable players around the league age/salary wise, im a lot less confident in the floor on simons or the culture fit, though i'd probably be willing to roll the dice on him if he was available cheaply because he does have a similar upside. poole would have been an interesting debate but the lack of shooting lowers the floor a lot, as well as the ceiling.

[vincecarter4pres]

If Sean Marks gives up anything more than one first rounder to get Herro then he should be fired.

Why not just trade for Dame at that point?

Tired of this BS. Just run the team back and look for the next big star.

WTF is so great about Herro? Hes an overpaid bench scorer. A glorified Dangelo Russell.

There is no way I am giving up Phoenix or Dallas picks for him. No chance!!!!

Bro you are always so dramatic lol.

I mean I mainly agree with you, but so extra.

[vincecarter4pres]

What comparison people have Herro to be hus ceiling?

I've been against the addition due to cost from the start.

It's not like we had KD n need Herro to compliment

i think the Herro ceiling is somewhere close to Klay and while i dont think he's nearly Steph's level, I do think he has some steph-elements to his game that Klay doesn't have. ironically the biggest question whether he reaches whatever his ceiling is for me is his shooting, which is his elite trait. I think he is already probably a little more functional on the ball and a little more dynamic at the non-shooting stuff than Klay was. He is a pretty close to elite shooter and scored 20 ppg, but he hasn't put up the 42-45% league leading shooting %'s yet. If he's a 20 ppg scorer at 38/39%, what does he become at 42-44% if he gets there?

Reddick/Huerter is the floor, he is already scoring better than them and a more well rounded player at a younger age. that floor imo makes it unlikely his contract is ever too far under water and the ceiling given his age along with the culture fit is why id be willing to roll the dice on him.

in terms of comparable players around the league age/salary wise, im a lot less confident in the floor on simons or the culture fit, though i'd probably be willing to roll the dice on him if he was available cheaply because he does have a similar upside. poole would have been an interesting debate but the lack of shooting lowers the floor a lot, as well as the ceiling.

I think ceiling/style of play two names come to mind, Hersey Hawkins and Manu Ginobili.

[vincecarter4pres]

So just in a vacuum, assuming equal contracts and asset cost to acquire them, rank these guys from most desirable to least:

Tyler Herro
Dejounte Murray
Tyrese Maxey
Anfernee Simons

Hey! Long time no speak...

Considering talent, contract and upside

Murray
Maxey
Simons
Herro

Yo E! What’s good?


Murray just got a really fair extension as well.

I think I’d honestly go:

Maxey
Herro
Murray
Simons

[ChuckS]

The cost versus value or worth consideration is always valid, and Herro's price is not insignificant.

It occurs to me, though, that we lost two shooters that everyone loved, but honestly haven't been doing the job for us. Patty and Joe are making almost $27M this year. It's reassuring to see Marks looking for solutions.

I do not know, the way things are going, if we will even get Herro. But I'll still gladly take him if we can. My biggest concern is that our roster is currently so thread bare. My decision would be based on what we have to give up to get him.

[Netaman]

What comparison people have Herro to be hus ceiling?

I've been against the addition due to cost from the start.

It's not like we had KD n need Herro to compliment

i think the Herro ceiling is somewhere close to Klay and while i dont think he's nearly Steph's level, I do think he has some steph-elements to his game that Klay doesn't have. ironically the biggest question whether he reaches whatever his ceiling is for me is his shooting, which is his elite trait. I think he is already probably a little more functional on the ball and a little more dynamic at the non-shooting stuff than Klay was. He is a pretty close to elite shooter and scored 20 ppg, but he hasn't put up the 42-45% league leading shooting %'s yet. If he's a 20 ppg scorer at 38/39%, what does he become at 42-44% if he gets there?

Reddick/Huerter is the floor, he is already scoring better than them and a more well rounded player at a younger age. that floor imo makes it unlikely his contract is ever too far under water and the ceiling given his age along with the culture fit is why id be willing to roll the dice on him.

in terms of comparable players around the league age/salary wise, im a lot less confident in the floor on simons or the culture fit, though i'd probably be willing to roll the dice on him if he was available cheaply because he does have a similar upside. poole would have been an interesting debate but the lack of shooting lowers the floor a lot, as well as the ceiling.

I think ceiling/style of play two names come to mind, Hersey Hawkins and Manu Ginobili.

I thought Ginobili too but he was so fearless driving to the hoop and finishing, I don't think Herro has that but i think he's a better shooter.

Ray Allen is maybe too much of a best case but i think that's pretty close. Maybe a less physical Joe Johnson?

[Marvin Martian]

If Sean Marks gives up anything more than one first rounder to get Herro then he should be fired.

Why not just trade for Dame at that point?

Tired of this BS. Just run the team back and look for the next big star.

WTF is so great about Herro? Hes an overpaid bench scorer. A glorified Dangelo Russell.

There is no way I am giving up Phoenix or Dallas picks for him. No chance!!!!

Herro is 23 years old and he can still improve his game. If we are trading for him, we are not only paying for the player that he is now, but also for the player he may become. I am sure this is what the Heat had in mind too when he was offered 4/$120M

By how much? It seems that people on this board is overrating Herro. If he had any star upside, POR would have pulled the trigger a long time ago. At the end of the day, we are talking about a 6th man with mediocre stats, and has never played as a lead guard.

Dinwiddle is pretty much the same player and cheaper to retain.

[vincecarter4pres]

If Sean Marks gives up anything more than one first rounder to get Herro then he should be fired.

Why not just trade for Dame at that point?

Tired of this BS. Just run the team back and look for the next big star.

WTF is so great about Herro? Hes an overpaid bench scorer. A glorified Dangelo Russell.

There is no way I am giving up Phoenix or Dallas picks for him. No chance!!!!

Herro is 23 years old and he can still improve his game. If we are trading for him, we are not only paying for the player that he is now, but also for the player he may become. I am sure this is what the Heat had in mind too when he was offered 4/$120M

By how much? It seems that people on this board is overrating Herro. If he had any star upside, POR would have pulled the trigger a long time ago. At the end of the day, we are talking about a 6th man with mediocre stats, and has never played as a lead guard.

Dinwiddle is pretty much the same player and cheaper to retain.

I’m not trying to claim he’s a star, but he was a full time starter last year and shot 44/38/93, averaged 20/5/4 ABC

[Marvin Martian]

Herro is 23 years old and he can still improve his game. If we are trading for him, we are not only paying for the player that he is now, but also for the player he may become. I am sure this is what the Heat had in mind too when he was offered 4/$120M

By how much? It seems that people on this board is overrating Herro. If he had any star upside, POR would have pulled the trigger a long time ago. At the end of the day, we are talking about a 6th man with mediocre stats, and has never played as a lead guard.

Dinwiddle is pretty much the same player and cheaper to retain.

I’m not trying to claim he’s a star, but he was a full time starter last year and shot 44/38/93, averaged 20/5/4 ABC

On meh efficiency and a very low ft rate despite being the 2nd option. Considering his poor defensive tools, the only way he can improve and become anything more than a stopgap is by suddenly turning into an all time great shooter like Steph, or Nash

Not a winning bet. Acquiring him would be a mistake. If Dinwiddle finds his stoke again, I don't see what value Herro adds to the team

[Netaman]

Herro becoming an elite shooter isn’t a stretch since he’s already a borderline elite shooter and young. He’s 2 years younger than Bane. He’s an elite Ft shooter and a 38-39% 3pt shooter who can do more than just shoot. He is already way more multi dimensional (and better) than a joe Harris or Allen crabbe type.

Better than those guys is a pretty good floor to start with and being as young as he is and having the kind of shooting talent he has he could certainly take a small step forward to being a really elite deep shooter. Miami has not been such a great team that he had a ton of open looks since he got there. They are a scrappy team that’s overachieved in the playoffs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tha King]

By how much? It seems that people on this board is overrating Herro. If he had any star upside, POR would have pulled the trigger a long time ago. At the end of the day, we are talking about a 6th man with mediocre stats, and has never played as a lead guard.

Dinwiddle is pretty much the same player and cheaper to retain.

I’m not trying to claim he’s a star, but he was a full time starter last year and shot 44/38/93, averaged 20/5/4 ABC

On meh efficiency and a very low ft rate despite being the 2nd option. Considering his poor defensive tools, the only way he can improve and become anything more than a stopgap is by suddenly turning into an all time great shooter like Steph, or Nash

Not a winning bet. Acquiring him would be a mistake. If Dinwiddle finds his stoke again, I don't see what value Herro adds to the team

you do bring up a great point on his FTr - it's very low. Actually way too low for his usage (which has been higher than Butler/Adebayo).

[Netaman]

I’m not trying to claim he’s a star, but he was a full time starter last year and shot 44/38/93, averaged 20/5/4 ABC

On meh efficiency and a very low ft rate despite being the 2nd option. Considering his poor defensive tools, the only way he can improve and become anything more than a stopgap is by suddenly turning into an all time great shooter like Steph, or Nash

Not a winning bet. Acquiring him would be a mistake. If Dinwiddle finds his stoke again, I don't see what value Herro adds to the team

you do bring up a great point on his FTr - it's very low. Actually way too low for his usage (which has been higher than Butler/Adebayo).

2 years ago in fewer minutes he attempted almost 1 more FT per game and shot 2 less 3's. he averaged more points and had his career best ts%. I think some of this is just the noise of a young guy in age 22/23 seasons adapting to different roles. he mostly came off the bench 2 years ago so he probably had the ball in his hands more and attacked. in the starting lineup he was more of a floor spacer with the ball in others' hands.

herro is also good rebounder. as ive said in other posts the biggest appeal to me is that he's an unfinished product who has shown a good diversity of skills. he is a different player than cam johnson but i think it's indisputable he's a better scorer with higher potential just based on being 4 years younger. it wouldnt shock me if he ends up just as good of a shooter - and all at a roughly similar price (especially if you factor any salary that goes out as part of a deal for him as offsetting). he's a worthy gamble with a very high floor. at worst like cam j he is a #3/4 role player on a good team. his floor is a lot higher than simons/poole/collins/simmons imo.

[Netaman]

aka they want the KD return. they won't get that but if we got a FRP from a 3rd team and 1 of the 3 picks we send them is the philly FRP, I think there's a deal in there i'd do that checks these boxes.

of cam thomas, dinwiddie, simmons, royce, dfs, are there 2 "quality players" in there? id say yes to that. DFS is better than Strus and cheaper for 3 years. Royce and Dinwiddie could bring back firsts. Simmons is more accomplished than either Bridges/Cam were at the time of the phoenix deal and i think same age or younger. Cam T obviously a lot younger.

i get why we may not pursue this and i get why we arent dame's top choice, but i think we make a lot of sense for all parties if there's no better offer out there.

Read on Twitter

[Netaman]

included the mavs in this one since they just lost thybulle and clearly still want more defense on the wing. dfs is better so this seems like an easy no brainer all around. nets would get hardcapped just under the lux tax, so it's possible they'd also want to send out royce in this deal so they dont. or simmons instead of dinwiddie (which portland may or may not prefer).

[vincecarter4pres]

aka they want the KD return. they won't get that but if we got a FRP from a 3rd team and 1 of the 3 picks we send them is the philly FRP, I think there's a deal in there i'd do that checks these boxes.

of cam thomas, dinwiddie, simmons, royce, dfs, are there 2 "quality players" in there? id say yes to that. DFS is better than Strus and cheaper for 3 years. Royce and Dinwiddie could bring back firsts. Simmons is more accomplished than either Bridges/Cam were at the time of the phoenix deal and i think same age or younger. Cam T obviously a lot younger.

i get why we may not pursue this and i get why we arent dame's top choice, but i think we make a lot of sense for all parties if there's no better offer out there.

Read on Twitter

Yeah, if it’s Philly pick, pick acquired from a third team for anyone not named Bridges, Cam J, Clax, Whitehead, one of our(Brooklyn) future picks ‘27 or earlier, and only one of the Phoenix/Dallas picks, and Dame actually legitimately is good with coming here, then I’m all for it. Would gladly include a Simons for any other matching salary swap if they wanted as well, maybe even Nurk as long as we keep Clax.

So say something like what you are:

1st from trading DFS or O’Neale to 3rd team
1st from us, say ‘25 or ‘27
1st from Philly
1st from either Phoenix or Dallas, whichever one they wanted
1st from trading Dinwiddie to 4th team(if necessary)
Cam T

Simons for Simmons if they like

Or

Absorb Nurk with the Harris TPE(would prefer to keep that though for a strengthening the bench trade for a guy like Caris LeVert in the future)

Unlimited 2nd round picks


That’s five 1st round picks, but mainly quantity over quality, so have at it.


That would excite me.


But again, Dame has to be fully invested in being in Brooklyn.

Even with that relatively meager outgoing package, you cannot clog the books with a disgruntled senior superstar, nor have a wish washy Harden situation where next deadline he’s demanding to be traded from us to the Heat.

[CalamityX12]

4 1sts for Dame?

Lol

Byyyyeeeee

[Netaman]

But again, Dame has to be fully invested in being in Brooklyn.

Even with that relatively meager outgoing package, you cannot clog the books with a disgruntled senior superstar, nor have a wish washy Harden situation where next deadline he’s demanding to be traded from us to the Heat.

agreed. i think it would be malpractice for portland to not contact the nets to try to get some kind of 3 FRP offer just so they can use it to leverage the heat since there was at least enough smoke out there connecting brooklyn/bridges and dame that they up their offer.

ultimately i expect a heat deal with portland getting 3 or 4 FRPs + Jovic + filler. and possibly offloading nurkic.

the nets have not only been the most rumored interested party in herro but i also think there's an incentive for miami to want to keep them from being a competitive bidder for dame. it is mutually beneficial for miami to keep brooklyn on the hook for herro and off the phone with portland directly driving up their trade cost. here's a version with nets basically getting herro for dfs/royce/cam t.

[Netaman]

hate to see all the top teams in the east getting poached like this.

Read on Twitter

[Netaman]

seems like a tough match for philly.

Read on Twitter

[vincecarter4pres]

4 1sts for Dame?

Lol

Byyyyeeeee

Yeah but it’s just a number depending on which picks.

Like if it’s one of our own picks that Houston has swap rights to, the protected Philly pick, a 3rd pick from a 3rd playoff team from rerouting DFS, or Dinwiddie, or O’Neale, and only 1 of the 4 premium Phoenix/Dallas picks, that is a great buy low as long as Dame is fully invested in BK.