2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[DarkXaero]

So he underachieved in college and went from trash to mediocure in 4 or 5 years in the NBA. and thats worth 13 million why?

60TS% is great if you actually shoot the ball. he takes 6 shots a game... a few layups and a couple open threes. his defense is solid. he doesnt really contribute much on offense.

id be upset with anything over 10 million. and i woudnt love it at 10 million. id rather try and get a younger version of him out of the dleague for the minimum.

The point in talking about his journey was to show how far he has come, an indication of his work ethic and character. He doesn't take many shots a game because he's a role player in a slow paced team. Not to mention, Fizdale admitted to holding him back a bit:

“JaMychal’s growth and development as a player has been huge for us,” Fizdale told The Vertical. “I’ve actually held JaMychal back a little bit, because I feel he has some ability to score more. Finding him some touches can be tough because of all the options we have, but he’s been invaluable.

“His ability to make open threes, defend multiple positions, loyal, being tough. He’s diligent about being in shape and working on his game, a fantastic complement to our group.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/inside-jamychal-greens-journey-from-basketball-vagabond-to-memphis-grizzlies-starter-160447391.html

He's worth it because stretch 4s are of high value in this league now, it has almost become an essential. To have a combination of 3pt shot, efficient offense, solid defense, rebounding from the 4 is highly valuable now. Good luck trying to find that in the D-league, most of the bigs there can't shoot at all.

we already have a stretch 4 on the team making league minimum (acy). why pay green 13M to do sligthly more then what acy does?

and its not tough to find something similar to green. he is a low level role player. it would be by far the worst move marks has made giving greent hat kind of money. thats like billy king when he gave wallace 4/40

I knew you were going to bring up the Quincy Acy comparison. Acy isn't a good defender or rebounder. I don't know about you but those are significant things to overlook right there. Acy's 3pt shooting was impressive but on a sample size of 32 games. I refuse to believe that Acy can shoot over 40% from 3pt over a full season. Even during those 32 games, his 3pt shooting began to drop in the final stretch of those games. In the final stretch of the season, he shot less than 30% from 3pt.

[Prokorov]

The point in talking about his journey was to show how far he has come, an indication of his work ethic and character. He doesn't take many shots a game because he's a role player in a slow paced team. Not to mention, Fizdale admitted to holding him back a bit:



https://sports.yahoo.com/news/inside-jamychal-greens-journey-from-basketball-vagabond-to-memphis-grizzlies-starter-160447391.html

He's worth it because stretch 4s are of high value in this league now, it has almost become an essential. To have a combination of 3pt shot, efficient offense, solid defense, rebounding from the 4 is highly valuable now. Good luck trying to find that in the D-league, most of the bigs there can't shoot at all.

we already have a stretch 4 on the team making league minimum (acy). why pay green 13M to do sligthly more then what acy does?

and its not tough to find something similar to green. he is a low level role player. it would be by far the worst move marks has made giving greent hat kind of money. thats like billy king when he gave wallace 4/40

I knew you were going to bring up the Quincy Acy comparison. Acy isn't a good defender or rebounder. I don't know about you but those are significant things to overlook right there. Acy's 3pt shooting was impressive but on a sample size of 32 games. I refuse to believe that Acy can shoot over 40% from 3pt over a full season. Even during those 32 games, his 3pt shooting began to drop in the final stretch of those games. In the final stretch of the season, he shot less than 30% from 3pt.

Acy took more attempts per game then Green.... so when we bring up small sample size for green its irrelevant... but when its acy its a big deal.

how is green a much better defender then Acy? he certainly isnt 12 million more dollars better thats for sure.

[Paradise]

Apparently Smart is the most likely to be moved from Boston. I don't see the fit here. I'd pass.

Whitehead-Smart would be a hell of a defensive duo.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[kamaze]

Prok has a hard on for them to sign Olynk (thats not a diss) I guess because he watched him in Boston.
I'd rather have JG.

[DeRoma]

Prok has a hard on for them to sign Olynk (thats not a diss) I guess because he watched him in Boston.
I'd rather have JG.

I know and for 2 years he hated how soft Brook Lopez and push to trade him. Now he wants a soft big man

[kamaze]

Apparently Smart is the most likely to be moved from Boston. I don't see the fit here. I'd pass.

Whitehead-Smart would be a hell of a defensive duo.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

He's not a good enough perimeter threat imo. The team wants shooters.

[DarkXaero]

we already have a stretch 4 on the team making league minimum (acy). why pay green 13M to do sligthly more then what acy does?

and its not tough to find something similar to green. he is a low level role player. it would be by far the worst move marks has made giving greent hat kind of money. thats like billy king when he gave wallace 4/40

I knew you were going to bring up the Quincy Acy comparison. Acy isn't a good defender or rebounder. I don't know about you but those are significant things to overlook right there. Acy's 3pt shooting was impressive but on a sample size of 32 games. I refuse to believe that Acy can shoot over 40% from 3pt over a full season. Even during those 32 games, his 3pt shooting began to drop in the final stretch of those games. In the final stretch of the season, he shot less than 30% from 3pt.

Acy took more attempts per game then Green.... so when we bring up small sample size for green its irrelevant... but when its acy its a big deal.

how is green a much better defender then Acy? he certainly isnt 12 million more dollars better thats for sure.

Are you seriously going to compare Acy's 32 games played to Green's 77 games played? 145 3PAs to 83? A season worth of scouting on a playoffs team compared to tail end of season on league's worst team?

Green is significantly better defensively than Acy because Acy is a poor defender while Green is above average, with potential to get better due to his greater physical tools.

Forget it man, it's pointless arguing with you on anything, you're the most stubborn dude here who never changes his position.

[Paradise]

If Smart gets renounced, I'd prefer a combination of Smart and Green. Cheaper and more upside under Kenny than Olynyk by himself.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[NyCeEvO]

Like Prok said there's really no costs to us offering (insofar as we actually want Porter). In the small chance he signs, great. If not, we forced a competitor to have less funds for players.

I personally think it's good to punish teams for matching contracts because the more other GMs see the struggles of teams like Portland and Miami, the less likely they are to match in the future.

IIRC, the new CBA has eliminated poison pill contracts so they're nowhere near as punitive/restricting for the home team if they match.

[Paradise]

Apparently Smart is the most likely to be moved from Boston. I don't see the fit here. I'd pass.

Whitehead-Smart would be a hell of a defensive duo.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

He's not a good enough perimeter threat imo. The team wants shooters.

We're also looking to develop and his D would work well with Russell. You can worry about shooting later considering we do have Harris.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[DeRoma]

The point in talking about his journey was to show how far he has come, an indication of his work ethic and character. He doesn't take many shots a game because he's a role player in a slow paced team. Not to mention, Fizdale admitted to holding him back a bit:



https://sports.yahoo.com/news/inside-jamychal-greens-journey-from-basketball-vagabond-to-memphis-grizzlies-starter-160447391.html

He's worth it because stretch 4s are of high value in this league now, it has almost become an essential. To have a combination of 3pt shot, efficient offense, solid defense, rebounding from the 4 is highly valuable now. Good luck trying to find that in the D-league, most of the bigs there can't shoot at all.

Dude there is no point in talking to him. His limit is up to reading advance metrics that he doesn't have a clue on understanding holistically. Let him just do his thing.

better then your limit of being like "hey i saw this guy on youtube. ZOMG lets sign him!"

LOL I gave you shot chart stats. and Shown you team stats that justify's his lack of attempt. I give you eye ball and statistics that are actually backs up my claim. Yet what you do is completely ignore it. I'll post it for the third time. Please respond to me

Its not just statistics... but statistics are a big part of it. you go on the eyeball test and dont factor in value vs. cap% then you end up with a team of great guys who win 34 games and you spend well over the cap.

there is a reason most teams(especially the nets) spend tens of millions of dollars on advanced analytic data. because it helps you project a player and determine his impact on winning. of course fit, the eye test, effort all matter and matter a TON.

but you cant go out and just say "this guys is grea tand is a steal at 13 million! he is a great shooter and defender" a nd then ignore the facts which show while he shot great it was on super low volume, and he wanst actually a great defender.

if we sign him for 13M and all we get is a slightly better trevor booker its goint to be egg on our face.

Yeah I'm a huge advocate on statistics myself. But not the advance metrics the general public generally uses. They are just ratings for normal fans to show a general definition of what the general idea of what impact they do towards team's scheme. Not saying they aren't useful, because they are but only for a certain degree and has to be used correctly. For example, you consider Lin to be a good player for what he is worth. The reason why Lin is really good because he was given a great opportunity for him to have the space to perform on what he does best which is to break down the defense and finish. If you put Lin with players that doesn't mesh well with him do you honestly believe he can keep up a descent FG% all around? No way and i'd bet money on that. Then how would you rate Lin when his TS% diminish since he gets exposed that he can't shoot? Do you understand what I mean on how statistics can really be misleading?

You say that the fact that Green does not take that many shot tells you that he only takes high percentage looks. Then you made a statement that he only takes less than 2 shot behind the arc. But what you are forgetting is that Memphis runs the slowest pace in the game with one of the lowest offensive rating, lowest FGA% in the league. According to:
http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/#!?sort=PACE&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15
So what that tells you is Memphis scheme does not run many system plays but runs a lot of offensive sets. They will tend to play half court. Meaning that Green's 50FG% is pretty impressive that he got those point in more impactful situations. System offense like our motion offense is actually much easier to see what the true value of the player is capable off because it's not about making decision, it's about rhythm scoring. Which is what is teachable in the NBA.

Let's direct this even more by watching both trevor and jamychal's good games.

Watch on YouTube

What you will notice is that Jamychal will always make a quick decisions once he is handed the ball. Meaning that he would fit right in to our offense and will most likely flourish given the volume of opportunities he will have in our offense. You also will notice he shoots the ball a lot more than Trevor and has much more different variety of moves. What this tells me is he is being held back on memphis offense which and shows that he doesn't completely fit their system. Which you can conclude the reason why they are not giving him more than 13 mill a game.

Watch on YouTube

Look at how much Booker lacks in comparison to Jamychal. Look at how unorthodox the way he scores the ball and how much lacks so much basketball skills.

Lets take a look at the shot charts to see if those shots were just lucky?
Jamychal:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/6552/jamychal-green/shotchart/

Trevor:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1172/trevor-booker/shotchart/

Even in the shot charts Jamychal shows how much more capable he is than Trevor. It shows that his shots were no fluke given the volume he took in comparison to Booker. In this conclusion, Jamychal shows that he is a lot more superior than what Trevor Booker does for us. So what if you give Jamychal a system offense with a lot more volume of shots? I would say he would flourish in our system given how much penetrator our team has and space that will be given to him. Do I think he is worth 13 mill most definitely. With the variety of ways he can score. There is no doubt he is already better than Booker. And with less experience in the NBA. So from the way I see it he has much more potential on what he can do if he is given a better system surrounding his skill set and mentality.

See this is how I believe Stats is suppose to be use rather than the general idea.

[/quote]

[Prokorov]

I knew you were going to bring up the Quincy Acy comparison. Acy isn't a good defender or rebounder. I don't know about you but those are significant things to overlook right there. Acy's 3pt shooting was impressive but on a sample size of 32 games. I refuse to believe that Acy can shoot over 40% from 3pt over a full season. Even during those 32 games, his 3pt shooting began to drop in the final stretch of those games. In the final stretch of the season, he shot less than 30% from 3pt.

Acy took more attempts per game then Green.... so when we bring up small sample size for green its irrelevant... but when its acy its a big deal.

how is green a much better defender then Acy? he certainly isnt 12 million more dollars better thats for sure.

Are you seriously going to compare Acy's 32 games played to Green's 77 games played? 145 3PAs to 83? A season worth of scouting on a playoffs team compared to tail end of season on league's worst team?

Green is significantly better defensively than Acy because Acy is a poor defender while Green is above average, with potential to get better due to his greater physical tools.

Forget it man, it's pointless arguing with you on anything, you're the most stubborn dude here who never changes his position.

Acy isnt a bad defender and green isnt special on D. barely above average and a complete non factor on offense unless its a wide open shot or dunk. he is the definition of a low level role guy.

he works supter hard and he is gritty. awesome. you dont pay 13M for that unless you want to fill up your cap with garbage talent and be a 25 win team forever.

[Prokorov]

Dude there is no point in talking to him. His limit is up to reading advance metrics that he doesn't have a clue on understanding holistically. Let him just do his thing.

better then your limit of being like "hey i saw this guy on youtube. ZOMG lets sign him!"

LOL I gave you shot chart stats. and Shown you team stats that justify's his lack of attempt. I give you eye ball and statistics that are actually backs up my claim. Yet what you do is completely ignore it. I'll post it for the third time. Please respond to me

Its not just statistics... but statistics are a big part of it. you go on the eyeball test and dont factor in value vs. cap% then you end up with a team of great guys who win 34 games and you spend well over the cap.

there is a reason most teams(especially the nets) spend tens of millions of dollars on advanced analytic data. because it helps you project a player and determine his impact on winning. of course fit, the eye test, effort all matter and matter a TON.

but you cant go out and just say "this guys is grea tand is a steal at 13 million! he is a great shooter and defender" a nd then ignore the facts which show while he shot great it was on super low volume, and he wanst actually a great defender.

if we sign him for 13M and all we get is a slightly better trevor booker its goint to be egg on our face.

Yeah I'm a huge advocate on statistics myself. But not the advance metrics the general public generally uses. They are just ratings for normal fans to show a general definition of what the general idea of what impact they do towards team's scheme. Not saying they aren't useful, because they are but only for a certain degree and has to be used correctly. For example, you consider Lin to be a good player for what he is worth. The reason why Lin is really good because he was given a great opportunity for him to have the space to perform on what he does best which is to break down the defense and finish. If you put Lin with players that doesn't mesh well with him do you honestly believe he can keep up a descent FG% all around? No way and i'd bet money on that. Then how would you rate Lin when his TS% diminish since he gets exposed that he can't shoot? Do you understand what I mean on how statistics can really be misleading?

You say that the fact that Green does not take that many shot tells you that he only takes high percentage looks. Then you made a statement that he only takes less than 2 shot behind the arc. But what you are forgetting is that Memphis runs the slowest pace in the game with one of the lowest offensive rating, lowest FGA% in the league. According to:
http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/#!?sort=PACE&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15
So what that tells you is Memphis scheme does not run many system plays but runs a lot of offensive sets. They will tend to play half court. Meaning that Green's 50FG% is pretty impressive that he got those point in more impactful situations. System offense like our motion offense is actually much easier to see what the true value of the player is capable off because it's not about making decision, it's about rhythm scoring. Which is what is teachable in the NBA.

Let's direct this even more by watching both trevor and jamychal's good games.

Watch on YouTube

What you will notice is that Jamychal will always make a quick decisions once he is handed the ball. Meaning that he would fit right in to our offense and will most likely flourish given the volume of opportunities he will have in our offense. You also will notice he shoots the ball a lot more than Trevor and has much more different variety of moves. What this tells me is he is being held back on memphis offense which and shows that he doesn't completely fit their system. Which you can conclude the reason why they are not giving him more than 13 mill a game.

Watch on YouTube

Look at how much Booker lacks in comparison to Jamychal. Look at how unorthodox the way he scores the ball and how much lacks so much basketball skills.

Lets take a look at the shot charts to see if those shots were just lucky?
Jamychal:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/6552/jamychal-green/shotchart/

Trevor:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1172/trevor-booker/shotchart/

Even in the shot charts Jamychal shows how much more capable he is than Trevor. It shows that his shots were no fluke given the volume he took in comparison to Booker. In this conclusion, Jamychal shows that he is a lot more superior than what Trevor Booker does for us. So what if you give Jamychal a system offense with a lot more volume of shots? I would say he would flourish in our system given how much penetrator our team has and space that will be given to him. Do I think he is worth 13 mill most definitely. With the variety of ways he can score. There is no doubt he is already better than Booker. And with less experience in the NBA. So from the way I see it he has much more potential on what he can do if he is given a better system surrounding his skill set and mentality.

See this is how I believe Stats is suppose to be use rather than the general idea.

[/quote]

you gave no stats. you gave irrelevant shot charts and youtube videos. who doesnt look good in their youtune highlights.

green isnt replacement level talent, but he is barely above that. he certainly isnt better then booker overall as a player and as a stretch 4 he is barely better then acy who is a minimum salary guy.

Green is a sucker move. let someone else sign guys like green and jonathan simmons and watch them be bench level players on huge deals for someone else

[624]

If we can wind up with Porter and Olynyk in the end of all of this, then I don't care about anything else.

would require a sign and trade for porter...

porters max is 26.25M

even if he signed for peanuts olynk gets 8-10 million

we have 31.8M in cap space.


rhj and hamilton for porter, then sign olynk

Lin | Russell | Levert | Porter | Olynk

thats crazy shooting in that lineup

We'd get eaten alive on the glass with that lineup. That'd be such a soft starting 5

[Prokorov]

comcast sportsnet in boston is saying that ainge wont move crowder.... they expect smart/rozier to be moved.

[DarkXaero]

Acy took more attempts per game then Green.... so when we bring up small sample size for green its irrelevant... but when its acy its a big deal.

how is green a much better defender then Acy? he certainly isnt 12 million more dollars better thats for sure.

Are you seriously going to compare Acy's 32 games played to Green's 77 games played? 145 3PAs to 83? A season worth of scouting on a playoffs team compared to tail end of season on league's worst team?

Green is significantly better defensively than Acy because Acy is a poor defender while Green is above average, with potential to get better due to his greater physical tools.

Forget it man, it's pointless arguing with you on anything, you're the most stubborn dude here who never changes his position.

Acy isnt a bad defender and green isnt special on D. barely above average and a complete non factor on offense unless its a wide open shot or dunk. he is the definition of a low level role guy.

he works supter hard and he is gritty. awesome. you dont pay 13M for that unless you want to fill up your cap with garbage talent and be a 25 win team forever.

Repeating the same thing over and over won't make your argument any more stronger. "A complete non factor on offense unless its a wide open shot or dunk"...A) Are you expecting Paul Millsap on $13 million? B) I don't think you've seen Green play much.

You know what's amazing is that you're clamoring for Kelly Olynyk in the very same thread

[624]

Otto signed our offer sheet at 4/106

Edit: 106 not 104

[Prokorov]

If we can wind up with Porter and Olynyk in the end of all of this, then I don't care about anything else.

would require a sign and trade for porter...

porters max is 26.25M

even if he signed for peanuts olynk gets 8-10 million

we have 31.8M in cap space.


rhj and hamilton for porter, then sign olynk

Lin | Russell | Levert | Porter | Olynk

thats crazy shooting in that lineup

We'd get eaten alive on the glass with that lineup. That'd be such a soft starting 5

We got eaten alive on the glass last year. olynk is a better rebounder then lopez. not that he is a good rebounder. but it would be an ugprade from brook

at least this lineup can defend and shoot 1 through 5 with high iq players at every position. if your getting hurt on the boards bring in mozgov and booker

[Curns13]

The point in talking about his journey was to show how far he has come, an indication of his work ethic and character. He doesn't take many shots a game because he's a role player in a slow paced team. Not to mention, Fizdale admitted to holding him back a bit:



https://sports.yahoo.com/news/inside-jamychal-greens-journey-from-basketball-vagabond-to-memphis-grizzlies-starter-160447391.html

He's worth it because stretch 4s are of high value in this league now, it has almost become an essential. To have a combination of 3pt shot, efficient offense, solid defense, rebounding from the 4 is highly valuable now. Good luck trying to find that in the D-league, most of the bigs there can't shoot at all.

we already have a stretch 4 on the team making league minimum (acy). why pay green 13M to do sligthly more then what acy does?

and its not tough to find something similar to green. he is a low level role player. it would be by far the worst move marks has made giving greent hat kind of money. thats like billy king when he gave wallace 4/40

I knew you were going to bring up the Quincy Acy comparison. Acy isn't a good defender or rebounder. I don't know about you but those are significant things to overlook right there. Acy's 3pt shooting was impressive but on a sample size of 32 games. I refuse to believe that Acy can shoot over 40% from 3pt over a full season. Even during those 32 games, his 3pt shooting began to drop in the final stretch of those games. In the final stretch of the season, he shot less than 30% from 3pt.

So Green can shoot. He literally does every other thing worse than RHJ who is getting $4M over the next 2 years instead of $26M. You wanna pay a guy $22M more over two years so he can make 3 of his 6 shots a game instead of the 2 RHJ would hit if he took 6 shots? Even though he is worse in every other way?

[Mkdaman1818]

Boom

Read on Twitter