Harden-watch 2020

[Netaman]

And a championship run opens the door up for Brooklyn to become a destination beyond 2024 if other players see that Sean Marks is running a top organization with an owner that is willing to spend. At that point, we are no longer selling players on culture or amenities, we are selling a track record of RESULTS.

If Marks takes us from what he started with to a super team champion that knocks off Lebron James within the next 3 seasons, the Nets become the #1 destination in the Eastern Conference.

Don't they already appear to be the #1 destination in the EC? KD and Kyrie chose Brooklyn. Harden seemingly wants Brooklyn.

For however long this window remains open it's more important the Nets choose the next moves wisely because if they don't it will come crashing down. So I'm not sure it's worth emptying the cupboard for anyone north of 30 right now.

I dont think it comes crashing down at all. even if we give up 5 picks, we still retain 2 picks in the swap years. it isnt 5 years with no picks. at the end of kyrie/KD/Durant we can likely sell them off for 25 cents on the dollar, which gets us something. it would also open up cap room and we are now a premier destination.

I mean, when it "came crashing down" last time we turned Lin and shane larking into KD/Durant with no picks and no cap so,,,, how bad does it really get?

This assumes Marks is still here, I obviously hope he has a lifetime contract like every other fan out there but that's not a guarantee.

And we should also remember there was a lot of unwatchable basketball to get to this point. The next KD may want to go someplace else.

If they get Harden I will understand it, just pointing out it's a risk I don't think I would take. I'd prefer to fully embrace more of a Spurs model - go after great FA whenever possible if they want to come here, draft/develop/trade for talent here, but don't mortgage the farm for a risky 2-3 year run.

[MrDollarBills]

Celtics offered 3 1st round picks and Gordon Heyward for Jrue Holiday.

We are going to have to cough up the picks for Harden. End of story.

[Paradise]

Read on Twitter

We will find out what happens to our 19th pick tomorrow....

[gigantes]

Is anyone else not enthused about selling the farm for Harden?

Yes, but I'm a little more easy about it than I was yesterday, thanks to some of the arguments being made here.


I also notice this, FWIW:

[Herd] "People around the league are saying Durant wants Harden and Kyrie does not." @Chris_Broussard with the latest buzz on James Harden to Brooklyn:
https://streamable.com/v3bbrl

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/jvzqy7/herd_people_around_the_league_are_saying_durant/

Personally I'd love to see Kyrie upgraded to Harden (at a much lesser cost), which I think would make a far better fit than the common form of the trade being floated. It would solve multiple potential problems, such as cap & roster flexibility, losing so many useful complimentary pieces (especially Fro), and eradicating the logjam at ball-handling, which could quickly create a rift between Kyrie and Harden. Just that it's almost impossible to see Marks ramming that through against all the goodwill he's accumulated.

On the positive tip, I love what I've seen of Claxton so far, so hopefully he's bulked up a bit and is ready to platoon full-time with Jordan. Losing Fro's elite effect on defense is maybe the hardest pill for me to swallow, although the Nets were going to be in a quandary about his upcoming contract at the end of the season, in any case.

[Paradise]

Read on Twitter

Seems like everyone source is Mr. Farbod.

[DarkXaero]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

An unexpected twist.

[LOUiS-D]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

An unexpected twist.

Wall is THE albatross. This is further indication after the RoCo trade that the fire sale is on. They're looking to take a leaf out of Presti's book and load up on picks. If the Westbrook shoe drops it's in full swing. A Nets package sure would be 4 quarters not adding up to a dollar, but from their standpoint it'd be get the most picks possible and polish up the players for future trades. Din (as an expiring) to a contender most likely the first move.

[DarkXaero]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

An unexpected twist.

Wall is THE albatross. This is further indication after the RoCo trade that the fire sale is on. They're looking to take a leaf out of Presti's book and load up on picks. If the Westbrook shoe drops it's in full swing. A Nets package sure would be 4 quarters not adding up to a dollar, but from their standpoint it'd be get the most picks possible and polish up the players for future trades. Din (as an expiring) to a contender most likely the first move.

I agree, that's most likely what's happening here but there is a slim chance that Rockets try to use Wall to keep Harden there.

[NBAWestFan]

Kyrie Needs to dribble and penetrate

Harden dribbles the ball and step back

KD

Two of the three need the ball and the 3rd need the ball to shoot.

I see overlap with Kyrie and Harden that does not translate to Super which can mean super problem

Kyrie, KD and Embiid is more productive then Kyrie, Harden & KD

Or

Harden, KD and Embiid is a stronger team on both sides of the court than Kyrie, Harden & KD.

If one of these guys doesn't work out Kyrie or Harden will get shopped next year like Paul George is now.

[therealbig3]

Likely that Houston is trying to start a bidding war for Harden before pulling the trigger on a Harden trade with us. It's true, it's a relatively weak package for a player of Harden's caliber, and all it takes is for Ainge or Morey to offer Brown or Simmons with some picks and it's a wrap for us, since those two are much better than anyone we can offer.

But the fact that nothing like that is even being reported and the fact that the only reports indicate that Houston is leaning towards a deal with us tells me that those players are not on the table as of right now. And maybe those options have already been explored and turned down.

[DarkXaero]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30338326/sources-houston-rockets-willing-get-uncomfortable-james-harden-russell-westbrook

Story from Houston's perspective to flex their leverage. Basically saying that Houston aren't willing to settle and want a "young, proven star" along with a "massive collection of picks" for Harden. They also want assets for Westbrook.

[therealbig3]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30338326/sources-houston-rockets-willing-get-uncomfortable-james-harden-russell-westbrook

Story from Houston's perspective to flex their leverage. Basically saying that Houston aren't willing to settle and want a "young, proven star" along with a "massive collection of picks" for Harden. They also want assets for Westbrook.

Right.

Obviously Simmons and picks is what they want.

And Westbrook isn't fetching anything, albatross contract and a negative impact player at this point.

I'm honestly ok if we don't end up with Harden...would be awesome if we did get him, but we have a strong enough team as is, and we can make other moves.

Situation hasn't changed: Houston can wait, since he's under contract for 2 more years, and other teams can definitely beat our best offer but it comes down to if they're willing to if Harden refuses to extend with them.

We'll see what happens. Anyway, it does seem like Pooch was premature with this, doesn't look like he's getting moved any time soon.

[NyCeEvO]

Kyrie Needs to dribble and penetrate

Harden dribbles the ball and step back

KD

Two of the three need the ball and the 3rd need the ball to shoot.

I see overlap with Kyrie and Harden that does not translate to Super which can mean super problem

Kyrie has excelled playing off-the-ball with LBJ.

Harden led the league in assists a few years back and has averaged over 7apg since then. We’ve also heard from other players (most notably, Steph Curry himself) that Harden prefers to play with more movement and less isolation, yet still excelled playing a style he didn’t like because that’s what the management/coaching wanted.

KD has played with Harden and Russ, and then meshed into an offense that had the best backcourt in the league with GSW.

NBA superstars are the most skilled, imaginative, and talented players on the planet, and yet so many people assume that they would be rigid/stubborn in their playing style and unable to think of new ways of playing together and benefiting from the talents of other stars on their team.

There is a reason why most Team USA teams dominate the competition despite having minimal time playing together and developing cohesion. Sure, fit is important, but the best players in the world are highly skilled in a number of facets of the game; they can adjust their games for the betterment of the team.

Kyrie, KD and Embiid is more productive then Kyrie, Harden & KD

Or

Harden, KD and Embiid is a stronger team on both sides of the court than Kyrie, Harden & KD.

If one of these guys doesn't work out Kyrie or Harden will get shopped next year like Paul George is now.

It is pure conjecture that Kyrie, KD, and Embiid is more productive than KD, Kyrie, and Harden. You’re assuming that their excellence with the ball precludes them from being able to excel without it, so you’ve constructed a more “balanced” lineup with a clear PG, SF, and C.

The problem is that the skills of today’s stars transcend the traditional skillsets of 5-position basketball. Kyrie is a better scorer than most PGs. Harden is a better passer than most SGs. Durant has better handle and can shoot better than most 3s and 4s. I’ll take the latter trio over the former.

Finally, Harden is way more durable than Embiid. KD is coming off Achilles surgery and Kyrie is injury prone. Harden is much greater insurance policy than the Embiid, who has missed huge portions of each regular season as well as some playoffs due to injury. We don’t need any more injury-prone players on our team.

[Brooklyn91]

I’d look into Bradley Beal if this the route Washington is going with Wall/Rockets. Harden maybe too far out of the picture if anything. Beal requires less and he’s younger

[StepBackCrack]

Likely that Houston is trying to start a bidding war for Harden before pulling the trigger on a Harden trade with us. It's true, it's a relatively weak package for a player of Harden's caliber, and all it takes is for Ainge or Morey to offer Brown or Simmons with some picks and it's a wrap for us, since those two are much better than anyone we can offer.

But the fact that nothing like that is even being reported and the fact that the only reports indicate that Houston is leaning towards a deal with us tells me that those players are not on the table as of right now. And maybe those options have already been explored and turned down.

I feel the same about this. But honestly, would these teams still give elite young star for Harden who doesn't want any other team other than the Nets? I think that's the main reason BOS and Sixers are not pulling the trigger immediately with trading their young stars. But I fear they will pull the trigger eventually because the Rockets wants to drag this out it seems. It seems that Harden will be forced to be somewhere else.

To me it feels really bad not honoring Harden's request after what he has done to their franchise. He has done so much. And it's not like the Nets will give them nothing. Nets obviously will give them a good package since it seems they will do everything they can to get him by adding more and more picks (according to the reports). Not like they will sacrifice nothing.

Harden to me will be quite unmotivated if he isn't a Net next season. Yes he will still average 30+ PPG. He is James Harden after all but his spirit won't be the same. His heart and mind won't fully be in a place he is forced to play in (unless he changed his mind). It would be a shame to see such talented player waste a prime year of his career on this. That's my take on this.

[CalamityX12]

What a shot show we’re going through... Will it happen?

I’ll start off saying this, Idk if I’m for it or against it. For it cuz it’s Harden... Harden plus Durant and Irving should bring the chip.... however, that’s only three players.... who da **** are we filling the rest of the team with? What actual roster maneuvers, trades or FA pickup are realistic to make a solid team? I see a capable team now but with Harden I just see the Big Bad 3..... i don’t see anyone else.... we’d give up so much and concentrate nearly two payrolls into three and half(Jordan) players.... does that make sense?

[3pt_chucker]

While I would want Harden here,I really don't think we should trade all our assets for him considering that KD and Kyrie are both injury risks. There is a strong possibility this goes sideways and we should def keep our long term stability. We already have a very good roster, so making smart moves not desperate/mortgaging ones is the right/smart thing to do.

Bradley Beal will def be an option, history shows other great players will be disgruntled and want to be traded. No need to lock in an make a enormous Harden trade, especially with an unfriendly trade market(Thanks OKC and New Orleans smh)

[DarkXaero]

While I would want Harden here,I really don't think we should trade all our assets for him considering that KD and Kyrie are both injury risks. There is a strong possibility this goes sideways and we should def keep our long term stability. We already have a very good roster, so making smart moves not desperate/mortgaging ones is the right/smart thing to do.

Bradley Beal will def be an option, history shows other great players will be disgruntled and want to be traded. No need to lock in an make a enormous Harden trade, especially with an unfriendly trade market(Thanks OKC and New Orleans smh)

Doesn't the injury risk of Kyrie and KD make the opposite argument actually? It emphasizes the importance of a 3rd star as insurance, especially someone like Harden who is an MVP candidate type player on his own.

[MrDollarBills]

If Washington is dumping salary in exchange for Westbrook, I highly doubt they are looking to trade Bradley Beal.

[CalamityX12]

Would’ve luv to see what we could do with the current roster plus Harris..... Add Ibaka or Gallo(psst, get Gallo!)