the new new era 2.0 - post deadline discussion

[Riconet]

So I am of the opinion that Simmons has lost his passion for the game, feels like it's a chore and really just wants to collect his paychecks and go home. As such, I think he's not salvageable and the Nets need to pay someone this summer to take him off of their hands -- and it will cost at least one first-rounder and probably an additional sweetener.

But watching the game vs Miami last night, it occurred to me that there is some possibility that the good vibes around this group, and the high character of guys like JV, Bridges, Dinwiddie, DFS and Cam J will rub off on Simmons and might just revive his passion. And if Simmons really wants it, he can be a great player again.

I think it's less than 20% likely, but it's not impossible.

[Netaman]

So I am of the opinion that Simmons has lost his passion for the game, feels like it's a chore and really just wants to collect his paychecks and go home. As such, I think he's not salvageable and the Nets need to pay someone this summer to take him off of their hands -- and it will cost at least one first-rounder and probably an additional sweetener.

But watching the game vs Miami last night, it occurred to me that there is some possibility that the good vibes around this group, and the high character of guys like JV, Bridges, Dinwiddie, DFS and Cam J will rub off on Simmons and might just revive his passion. And if Simmons really wants it, he can be a great player again.

I think it's less than 20% likely, but it's not impossible.

he looked extremely engaged when he was on the floor yesterday and talkative running the offense (communicating where other players off ball should, plays to run, etc). JV bringing him in so early as first guy off the bench was notable, as was shifting him to more of an on ball vs big man role as the game progressed.

ball movement was 100% the key factor in the offense yesterday and if you look at a bunch of the best examples of that, simmons was the initiator. nothing special in either of these 2 plays but as he gets more comfortable you would hope he can start doing a little more himself to get even better looks once the ball gets kicked out.

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[Colbinii]

well thought out, thanks.

1 - DFS is on a good deal and is a proven starting caliber 3&D wing that should be a key player for the next few years. So it would take an overpay imo to trade him and this isn't it. For comparison, the team traded an unprotected Nets/Sixers 2023 pick for O'Neale last offseason without sending any salary back to the Jazz.

2 - Using multiple picks to trade Simmons would depend on if the team really wants space for the 2024 offseason. Otherwise, just play out next season with Simmons with the hope that he can regain some of his athleticism as he recovers from his injury.

3 - CJ would need to show some level of offensive creation and not just 3&okayD for that type of deal imo

Thanks for the response! I think Brooklyn is in a great position after how sour the Durant/Kyrie experience became.

I thought of another 3-teamer.

Harris/O'Neale/20 for DD
DD for Theis/Harris/20/30
Theis/30 for O'Neale

Brooklyn adds a go-to scorer to their roster of 3+D Wings
Chicago adds two firsts and expiring salary
Indiana adds a solid 3+D wing

[Colbinii]

So I am of the opinion that Simmons has lost his passion for the game, feels like it's a chore and really just wants to collect his paychecks and go home. As such, I think he's not salvageable and the Nets need to pay someone this summer to take him off of their hands -- and it will cost at least one first-rounder and probably an additional sweetener.

But watching the game vs Miami last night, it occurred to me that there is some possibility that the good vibes around this group, and the high character of guys like JV, Bridges, Dinwiddie, DFS and Cam J will rub off on Simmons and might just revive his passion. And if Simmons really wants it, he can be a great player again.

I think it's less than 20% likely, but it's not impossible.

So long as Brooklyn is avoiding the tax next year, there is little reason to use multiple asset(s) [or any] to get off of Simmons contract.

Instead, Brooklyn can/should be patient, let next year play out and then they have Simmons expiring contract as a salary ballast for a larger trade if they so choose, otherwise he expires and no assets were spent.

[Riconet]

So long as Brooklyn is avoiding the tax next year, there is little reason to use multiple asset(s) [or any] to get off of Simmons contract.

Instead, Brooklyn can/should be patient, let next year play out and then they have Simmons expiring contract as a salary ballast for a larger trade if they so choose, otherwise he expires and no assets were spent.

I don't think this is their plan at all. If it were, they would've made an additional trade this year to get out of the tax, but they didn't.

I think they want to be contenders again ASAP, and if a star -- but only one with good character -- becomes available this summer, they will spend as much as necessary to bring him in. They also will spend whatever is needed to keep guys like Cam J if they think he's an important piece.

[Colbinii]

So long as Brooklyn is avoiding the tax next year, there is little reason to use multiple asset(s) [or any] to get off of Simmons contract.

Instead, Brooklyn can/should be patient, let next year play out and then they have Simmons expiring contract as a salary ballast for a larger trade if they so choose, otherwise he expires and no assets were spent.

I don't think this is their plan at all. If it were, they would've made an additional trade this year to get out of the tax, but they didn't.

I think they want to be contenders again ASAP, and if a star -- but only one with good character -- becomes available this summer, they will spend as much as necessary to bring him in. They also will spend whatever is needed to keep guys like Cam J if they think he's an important piece.

I thought the Luxury Tax this season was 162 and the Nets are at 158 in Salary.

[MrDollarBills]

So I am of the opinion that Simmons has lost his passion for the game, feels like it's a chore and really just wants to collect his paychecks and go home. As such, I think he's not salvageable and the Nets need to pay someone this summer to take him off of their hands -- and it will cost at least one first-rounder and probably an additional sweetener.

But watching the game vs Miami last night, it occurred to me that there is some possibility that the good vibes around this group, and the high character of guys like JV, Bridges, Dinwiddie, DFS and Cam J will rub off on Simmons and might just revive his passion. And if Simmons really wants it, he can be a great player again.

I think it's less than 20% likely, but it's not impossible.

he looked extremely engaged when he was on the floor yesterday and talkative running the offense (communicating where other players off ball should, plays to run, etc). JV bringing him in so early as first guy off the bench was notable, as was shifting him to more of an on ball vs big man role as the game progressed.

ball movement was 100% the key factor in the offense yesterday and if you look at a bunch of the best examples of that, simmons was the initiator. nothing special in either of these 2 plays but as he gets more comfortable you would hope he can start doing a little more himself to get even better looks once the ball gets kicked out.

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I think Vaughn had a talk privately with Simmons. Ben's body language and engagement were 1000x better last night than the Knicks game.

[Netaman]

I think Vaughn had a talk privately with Simmons. Ben's body language and engagement were 1000x better last night than the Knicks game.

i wonder if plugging him into the lineup 4 minutes in was a sign that he may end up in the starting group sooner rather than later. i think he sub'd him for claxton, but i think we saw yesterday DFS is the most limited offensively of all the 3/d wings. Bridges/CJ are obviously on another level, but oneale also has more offense.

[MrDollarBills]

I think Vaughn had a talk privately with Simmons. Ben's body language and engagement were 1000x better last night than the Knicks game.

i wonder if plugging him into the lineup 4 minutes in was a sign that he may end up in the starting group sooner rather than later. i think he sub'd him for claxton, but i think we saw yesterday DFS is the most limited offensively of all the 3/d wings. Bridges/CJ are obviously on another level, but oneale also has more offense.

Would Simmons/Dinwiddie/Bridges/Johnson/Claxton work? Vaughn did play them together for a bit, but I really liked the line up that ended the game.

[Riconet]

I thought the Luxury Tax this season was 162 and the Nets are at 158 in Salary.

Spotrac (which isn't infallible) says the tax threshold is $150.3MM and the Nets are at $158.1MM, leaving a tax bill of $12.4MM: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/cap/2022/

I think NetsDaily reported something similar.

[Netaman]

I think Vaughn had a talk privately with Simmons. Ben's body language and engagement were 1000x better last night than the Knicks game.

i wonder if plugging him into the lineup 4 minutes in was a sign that he may end up in the starting group sooner rather than later. i think he sub'd him for claxton, but i think we saw yesterday DFS is the most limited offensively of all the 3/d wings. Bridges/CJ are obviously on another level, but oneale also has more offense.

Would Simmons/Dinwiddie/Bridges/Johnson/Claxton work? Vaughn did play them together for a bit, but I really liked the line up that ended the game.

here were the 4q lineups:

score was 83-80 nets to start.
line up started with cam, simmons, dinwiddie, cj, royce. basically maximum playmaking while resting bridges/claxton.

with 9 min left bridges came in for Cam T, score was 88-86 nets.

with 8 min left simmons committed a foul, Claxton sub'd in for him, score was 90-86 nets.

from there you closing unit was Dinwiddie, Royce, CJ, Bridges, Claxton. So starting lineup but with more playmaking having Royce in for DFS. but the 1 caveat here is that Bridges went atomic for 3 minutes straight.

at 7:21 he got an unassisted layup to put them up 92-89.
at 6:51 next time down he got an unassisted mid range +1 to go up 95-89.
at 6:22 next time down they had great ball movement to get him an open 3 98-89 (CJ assist).
at 5:46 next time down bridges got another layup from a dinwiddie assist 100-91.
at 4:56 next time down bridges hit another 3 from a dinwiddie assist 103-93.
at 4:16 next time down bridges hit an unassisted pull up 105-96.

that's 15 straight points on 0 missed shots for Bridges. So in other words, he was basically KD.

on the next possession at 3:57 remaining CJ hit a 3 assisted by Royce to put them up 108-96 and that was basically ballgame. lead was 11+ the rest of the way.

so my takeaways from all that, Oneale's extra playmaking over DFS did make an impact. I think the max playmaker lineup to start the quarter with Simmons and Cam T is an effective way to keep the offense moving forward without Bridges.

so imo DFS is the guy most at risk for losing closing minutes because of his limited offense. maybe they keep him as a starter and maybe on nights when he has it going or is doing a particularly great on defense he stays in, but the 3 others have more to offer so long as they aren't getting shredded on D. and who knows, maybe DFS ends up sliding into more of the backup C role with Simmons getting on ball more?

clearly the biggest takeaway from yesterday is the offense needs to keep the ball moving, and the inescapable reality within that is simmons is both the best playmaker on the team and a solid defender with length.

[Riconet]

here were the 4q lineups:

score was 83-80 nets to start.
line up started with cam, simmons, dinwiddie, cj, royce. basically maximum playmaking while resting bridges/claxton.

with 9 min left bridges came in for Cam T, score was 88-86 nets.

with 8 min left simmons committed a foul, Claxton sub'd in for him, score was 90-86 nets.

from there you closing unit was Dinwiddie, Royce, CJ, Bridges, Claxton. So starting lineup but with more playmaking having Royce in for DFS. but the 1 caveat here is that Bridges went atomic for 3 minutes straight.

at 7:21 he got an unassisted layup to put them up 92-89.
at 6:51 next time down he got an unassisted mid range +1 to go up 95-89.
at 6:22 next time down they had great ball movement to get him an open 3 98-89 (CJ assist).
at 5:46 next time down bridges got another layup from a dinwiddie assist 100-91.
at 4:56 next time down bridges hit another 3 from a dinwiddie assist 103-93.
at 4:16 next time down bridges hit an unassisted pull up 105-96.

that's 15 straight points on 0 missed shots for Bridges. So in other words, he was basically KD.

on the next possession at 3:57 remaining CJ hit a 3 assisted by Royce to put them up 108-96 and that was basically ballgame. lead was 11+ the rest of the way.

so my takeaways from all that, Oneale's extra playmaking over DFS did make an impact. I think the max playmaker lineup to start the quarter with Simmons and Cam T is an effective way to keep the offense moving forward without Bridges.

so imo DFS is the guy most at risk for losing closing minutes because of his limited offense. maybe they keep him as a starter and maybe on nights when he has it going or is doing a particularly great on defense he stays in, but the 3 others have more to offer so long as they aren't getting shredded on D. and who knows, maybe DFS ends up sliding into more of the backup C role with Simmons getting on ball more?

clearly the biggest takeaway from yesterday is the offense needs to keep the ball moving, and the inescapable reality within that is simmons is both the best playmaker on the team and a solid defender with length.

I agree with most of this but not the bolded. Simmons at this point is nowhere near a playmaker, let alone the best on the team. When he brings it up, he takes one or 2 dribbles past halfcourt, makes a short pass to someone on the arc and then goes to the corner or the dunker spot. He doesn't break the defense down and make a nice pass. He doesn't run P&R. If he gets a rebound, he doesn't take it hard to the rim -- he usually passes it back out. He creates zero offense.

[Keith Van Horn]

Kevin Love working toward a buyout. Can he be had as our backup big? Claxton needs some support that's not named Sharpe.

The report says Miami as possibility. But Maybe he'd want to come be part of the movement here for the right price? As it stands now, we're a playoff team and he'd be getting minutes.

[Netaman]

here were the 4q lineups:

score was 83-80 nets to start.
line up started with cam, simmons, dinwiddie, cj, royce. basically maximum playmaking while resting bridges/claxton.

with 9 min left bridges came in for Cam T, score was 88-86 nets.

with 8 min left simmons committed a foul, Claxton sub'd in for him, score was 90-86 nets.

from there you closing unit was Dinwiddie, Royce, CJ, Bridges, Claxton. So starting lineup but with more playmaking having Royce in for DFS. but the 1 caveat here is that Bridges went atomic for 3 minutes straight.

at 7:21 he got an unassisted layup to put them up 92-89.
at 6:51 next time down he got an unassisted mid range +1 to go up 95-89.
at 6:22 next time down they had great ball movement to get him an open 3 98-89 (CJ assist).
at 5:46 next time down bridges got another layup from a dinwiddie assist 100-91.
at 4:56 next time down bridges hit another 3 from a dinwiddie assist 103-93.
at 4:16 next time down bridges hit an unassisted pull up 105-96.

that's 15 straight points on 0 missed shots for Bridges. So in other words, he was basically KD.

on the next possession at 3:57 remaining CJ hit a 3 assisted by Royce to put them up 108-96 and that was basically ballgame. lead was 11+ the rest of the way.

so my takeaways from all that, Oneale's extra playmaking over DFS did make an impact. I think the max playmaker lineup to start the quarter with Simmons and Cam T is an effective way to keep the offense moving forward without Bridges.

so imo DFS is the guy most at risk for losing closing minutes because of his limited offense. maybe they keep him as a starter and maybe on nights when he has it going or is doing a particularly great on defense he stays in, but the 3 others have more to offer so long as they aren't getting shredded on D. and who knows, maybe DFS ends up sliding into more of the backup C role with Simmons getting on ball more?

clearly the biggest takeaway from yesterday is the offense needs to keep the ball moving, and the inescapable reality within that is simmons is both the best playmaker on the team and a solid defender with length.

I agree with most of this but not the bolded. Simmons at this point is nowhere near a playmaker, let alone the best on the team. When he brings it up, he takes one or 2 dribbles past halfcourt, makes a short pass to someone on the arc and then goes to the corner or the dunker spot. He doesn't break the defense down and make a nice pass. He doesn't run P&R. If he gets a rebound, he doesn't take it hard to the rim -- he usually passes it back out. He creates zero offense.

he's average 9 assist per 36 and given what we've seen from dinwiddie, i just see no alternative "best". honestly i dont even care if all he does is dribble up and handoff in the circle, it's better than driving into a bad iso shot. it starts the offense. he had a few really nice dimes in the first half yesterday including a 3 in the corner (i think to cj) and the hail mary to bridges before half.

he is the 1 player on this team who has the potential to dramatically raise the ceiling quickly -- if he can get back to playing the way he has over his career.

[Shark]

Kevin Love working toward a buyout. Can he be had as our backup big? Claxton needs some support that's not named Sharpe.

The report says Miami as possibility. But Maybe he'd want to come be part of the movement here for the right price? As it stands now, we're a playoff team and he'd be getting minutes.

Would be great, but he wants to sign with a contender. I'm not sure we've really shown enough to attract buyout players like Love.

[Netaman]

Kevin Love working toward a buyout. Can he be had as our backup big? Claxton needs some support that's not named Sharpe.

The report says Miami as possibility. But Maybe he'd want to come be part of the movement here for the right price? As it stands now, we're a playoff team and he'd be getting minutes.

Would be great, but he wants to sign with a contender. I'm not sure we've really shown enough to attract buyout players like Love.

I think the answer to the backup C minutes may be DFS.

yes he's undersized, but how many teams is that going to matter against? love is a better rebounder but who is love guarding better than dfs?

he can guard Bam, he can guard Vucevic, he can guard Randle, he can guard Siakam, he can guard John Collins, etc.

it's an issue against embiid obviously and it's not a perfect solution but it's backup minutes where he'd stretch the floor and they'd likely have a bunch of other length out there throughout the lineup.

whether that inserts Oneale, Simmons, or Cam T into the starting lineup it increases the playmaking/scoring capability.

[Hello Brooklyn]

So I am of the opinion that Simmons has lost his passion for the game, feels like it's a chore and really just wants to collect his paychecks and go home. As such, I think he's not salvageable and the Nets need to pay someone this summer to take him off of their hands -- and it will cost at least one first-rounder and probably an additional sweetener.

But watching the game vs Miami last night, it occurred to me that there is some possibility that the good vibes around this group, and the high character of guys like JV, Bridges, Dinwiddie, DFS and Cam J will rub off on Simmons and might just revive his passion. And if Simmons really wants it, he can be a great player again.

I think it's less than 20% likely, but it's not impossible.

Hes still coming off major injury. And its clear to me he is still not the same physically.

Can we give him a year to try to get back to what he was?

He has no value at the moment and our timeline is completely different now.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I still think we need to play Cam more.

Hes just too good and young to not play more. He was getting doubled by the Heat constantly because they couldn't guard him.

Why should we sit him?

For Cam Johnson? Its not worth it.

[Tha King]

I still think we need to play Cam more.

Hes just too good and young to not play more. He was getting doubled by the Heat constantly because they couldn't guard him.

Why should we sit him?

For Cam Johnson? Its not worth it.

I agree. However, JV is clearly making a point that he needs to be more than just a scorer out there (defense, passing) and if he continues to adjust I think he will play a lot more. Not for CJ or DFS though but Dinwiddie.

Bridges has shown a capability on ball not only as a scorer but surprisingly as a playmaker as well so I think he and Cam can eventually work well together in place of Dinwiddie with DFS/O'Neale providing defense and CJ elite off the ball spacing and solid defense.

As of now, the starting five has a very good net rating of +16.8 with a ridiculous 87.5 defensive rating in the first three games so far.

[MrDollarBills]

I still think we need to play Cam more.

Hes just too good and young to not play more. He was getting doubled by the Heat constantly because they couldn't guard him.

Why should we sit him?

For Cam Johnson? Its not worth it.

Cam has to consistently show that he can score within the offense and make the correct plays, otherwise you get stuff like the Bulls game.

He will have plenty of playing time