Official Game Thread: Nets @ Spurs (Game 60)

[Serpo]

What exactly but smallball can we do when we struggle to score , our bigs can't score by themselves besides a healthy Krstic .

We can't insert even more big that struggle to score.

[EFF]

that's my issue with either him or Frank, why is RJ a standstill jumpshooter or initiator from isos. That isn't his game, moving w/out the ball, cutting to the basket or using openings created usually by Vince to drive to rim, that is what he excels at but Frank (don't know how much of it is RJ himself) uses him like he's Allen Houston

exactly. He has neither the handles or the quickness to be an Iso player. His shot is only worth something if he's moving into it in rhythm....

Oh and let's have nenad finally hit a few shots and then NEVER go to him again. Good one.

and speaking of turnover machines...devin's handles are not as good as i thought they'd be. marcus is a better ball handler and passer. Maybe even shooter.

[Serpo]

I'm not mad at this loss the Spurs are tough and have the best current NBA coach . They tried but just couldn't keep up .

[EFF]

What exactly but smallball can we do when we struggle to score , our bigs can't score by themselves besides a healthy Krstic .

We can't insert even more big that struggle to score.

Does our small lineup struggle any less? they had 70 points tonight. I dont care who it was against.

And whatever problems i have with the team...it always ends up ultimately with frank. This team should be able to compete, small or big. Frank renders everyone useless. We only play well when we deviate from Frank's game plan and actually play basketball.

[NetsForce]

that's my issue with either him or Frank, why is RJ a standstill jumpshooter or initiator from isos. That isn't his game, moving w/out the ball, cutting to the basket or using openings created usually by Vince to drive to rim, that is what he excels at but Frank (don't know how much of it is RJ himself) uses him like he's Allen Houston

I think part of the problem is not having good passers. Other than Vince and Marcus, the Nets don't have any players who I would consider "good / creative passers"

That's actually why I want Marcus starting over Harris... I'd rather use Harris as a Barbosa type player than have him be the starting point guard. It would be quite a hit in the pocket when you consider how much he is owed over the life of his contract, but this is one of the things that always bothered me about him in Dallas, I just can't decide on whether or not Harris can be a real starting point guard.

[Serpo]

-= original quote snipped =-



Does our small lineup struggle any less? they had 70 points tonight. I dont care who it was against.

And whatever problems i have with the team...it always ends up ultimately with frank. This team should be able to compete, small or big. Frank renders everyone useless. We only play well when we deviate from Frank's game plan and actually play basketball.

Look at our roster , we have two players who can create Marcus and Vince , two realiable scorers Vince and RJ , one big who can score reliable but is hurt Krstic and no reliable shooter . Boki is the closest to a good shooter on our team but he was out today .

This team can't defeat smart defensive Teams no matter what coach we have unless somebody unexpected steps up bigtime .

The good thing about todays is that it was the hardest of the road trip , every other team has struggled recently. ( ok Houston hasn't but with Yao out idk if they can keep up for long )

[dacher]

It's the Spurs, the champs, gearing up for the playoffs. A win couldn't be reasonably expected, but it does clearly expose our weaknesses and flaws. A cold water splash or realism that we're all talking about.

We need a shooter. We need interior offense and just getting bigs more touches, get them involved, even if just to kick it back out. Better ball movement.

You know Diop had a + +/- again. I've noticed he always has positive +/- when everyone else is -.

[VCdagreat]

can anyone tell me why we don't post up vince or at least give him every single iso that Rj gets?

so if Vince gets lets say 6 isos run for him and RJ gets 12 why can't all 18 go to Vince?

it is so useless to run an iso for RJ, his ballhandling is worse then my morning dump, same as his passing.

please vince, grow some and demand the friggin ball, not when its too late and were losing but early, often and throughout the game, his shot count is low at the begining and then by the end of the game you'd say he took enough shots, but most of those were when we were down by a comfortable margin to the spurs. It boggles my mind when RJ gets isos.

Highlight of the Night= Vince dropping a pass to Hassel for an iso and then Vince running to the opposite side of the court to the 3 point line..real effective, lets see how effective that is. First you dump it down to Hasselhoff, who can't hit an open jumper let alone create a play for himself or anyone else, and lets say Hassel does do something special with that oppurtunity, guess what he can't pass it to vince because he's hiding in the corner...nice.....real nice.

oh yeah...please don't ever give RJ an iso, its getting to the point wher i'd rather have Hassel show what he can't do.

side note: Devin was struggling but no way do i want him to come off the bench because of the results of 2 games against the best team in the league(or close to it)...also please give every iso entitled to Rj into VC's hands.

also...the clapping by Frank is amazing, he should keep doing it, its like really helping the team

also..please, no more isos for RJ.

also...it was cool to see rj miss a layup and then tie his shoes while sanantonio scored on the other end...nice. So finally no more isos for Rj, never liked it, never will.

oh yeah..no more isos for R Jeff.

[VCdagreat]

really if anything we lost this game because VC is never inclined to take over, wether its setting the tone or coming back strong, he just coasts and when we start losing I can almost guarantee he's thinking about the next game. He'll probably have a really good game in the next few but even then its not enough as sicgm always says, he's gotta do it consistently.

Either Vince isn't getting enough plays run for him or he just doesn't care to tell the coach he'd like more plays run for him, really, it's about 10X more effective when VC gets an iso as compared with Rj, but time after time Rj's getting the nod, i don't think anyone could be so stupid(even Lawrence), its gotta be somehting with VC, probably just sits back and tells coach, nah its cool let Rj take this one.

[Serpo]

Vince turns down the ball quite often this year thats the biggest problem .
He lacks killerinstinct most games this year .

Todays he's got doubles most of the time , how do you run an iso for someone who gets doubled ?

They left guys like Hassel open or one of our bigs since they can't convert ...

[jerseyjac]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think part of the problem is not having good passers. Other than Vince and Marcus, the Nets don't have any players who I would consider "good / creative passers"

That's actually why I want Marcus starting over Harris... I'd rather use Harris as a Barbosa type player than have him be the starting point guard. It would be quite a hit in the pocket when you consider how much he is owed over the life of his contract, but this is one of the things that always bothered me about him in Dallas, I just can't decide on whether or not Harris can be a real starting point guard.

you have a valid point...

despite Marcus probably being the purer pg and stepping up with some points at his position as of late...I still feel Harris needs to start and play the majority of minutes...he's good enough to get everyone involved in his own way...Frank needs to address things, play more of motion offense where we can get RJ moving like you said...but honestly, if we are going to have a chance at all, we need the points Devin can put up along w/ Vince and RJ...with those three on the floor, it makes it tougher for the opposition on defense...

I also would really love to see us go small...have Devin and Marcs together with Vince and RJ and maybe Stro/Boone/or Sean...take out Marcus or Devin and play Sean and Stro together...utilize the talent you have, play to your strengths rather than always trying to matchup vs. our opponent...I like to see us play more like Golden State, to certain extent...

and yes, IMO this is a big test for Frank, being able to transition his coaching w/ our new team...I just wish Rod would be more vocal about the obvious, instead of just letting Frank do his job while he plays the "supportive team president..."

If we have gripes with how the team is structured and directed...I'm sure these are questions that have to come up in his own mind...whether he(Thorn) voices them or not, or whether he feels its neccessary to address these points we bring up about Frank's coaching strategy is what I'm really curious about...but we all know Thorn doesnt like to make waves internally or publically about his team...

[MrDollarBills]

Aside from some horrible play by RJ, and soft play by Boone who would be better off guardings PFs than Centers, the blame here lies with this poor excuse of a headcoach. Rod Thorn needs to swallow his pride after this season and show Frank the door, demote him, or hire an offensive coordinator. Carter IMO has done everything that has been asked of him, its not his fault when the play calls are being made for him to stand out on the wing when we are getting the tar kicked out of us while running plays for Jefferson who is playing like basura!!!!!!!!! Carter was demanding triple teams out there from them because they didn't dare allow bowen to defend him one on one...a superior coach with this same roster would have tore that defense apart!! Where were the backdoor cuts? Post ups for Krstic who played awesome when he did get touches? Now i'm starting to believe Krstic's ineffectiveness is partially due to Frank's garbage offense and usage of him and not his physical ailment. If Curly is working like that he should get no less than 12 FGAs per game and he needs to be getting to the FT line. Frank is an absolute disgrace to his profession, there is no WAY that the Nets shouldn't have built a considerable lead when Duncan and Parker went out with TWO FOULS.

[NetsForce]

I forget how long Frank is signed for but I'm pretty sure he got an extension not too long ago. For financial reasons alone I find it hard that the Nets fire him before the move to Brooklyn... You can criticize Ratner all you want about this penny pinching tactic but he's pooring millions into the move so I guess this is part of the trade-off.

[MrDollarBills]

We could have Lebron James on this roster and we would still lose with Frank running things the way he is. The man is CLUELESS when it comes to playcalling and designing a competent offense.

[EFF]

...utilize the talent you have, play to your strengths rather than always trying to matchup vs. our opponent...

Exactly. Frank has been very unassertive in terms of dictating the flow of the game. He only tries to react to what other teams are doing instead of playing our game. He seems to only care about defensive matchups and not exploiting the other's teams' weaknesses. hence, the nets are in the bottom 3 in offensive production.

He needs to remember vince is our guy. and if RJ gets going, it needs to come secondarily through vince. Making Vince a primary playmaker, as solid as he is, hurts us overall. Why waste his ability to get to the basket and finish by making him fill Kidd's old role? Threading needles and shooting 3's is a waste of his talent.

Last night, vince was getting double teamed but they were not inescapable. He could have turned the corner on a lot of plays but he chose to pass it to someone in the corner. If coach is not gonna be assertive, the star player needs to be.

[ViNNNsanity]

Vince turns down the ball quite often this year thats the biggest problem .
He lacks killerinstinct most games this year .

Todays he's got doubles most of the time , how do you run an iso for someone who gets doubled ?

They left guys like Hassel open or one of our bigs since they can't convert ...

VC's biggest problem is that he has NO open lanes to the basket. He gets the ball around the 3pt line, teams have more enough time to react to what he does. How do you create against an entire team, while your help consists of no post play? There is no motion to get easier shots in the paint. Even if he does draw 3 defenders, our bigmen are all out of the paint to take a jumper (that can't even get a rebound like this). Every single play being called is to SET UP A JUMPSHOT. There are no plays allowing our players to get to the hoop, other than a Boone high pick n roll. That just shows you how incompetent our head coach is using postplay. In fact, one of the main reasons we revert to smaller lineups, is because he WANTS open jumpers.

Not being able to consistently score in the post, is a recipe for failure. Frank needs to kill our small ball jumpshooters system, and utilize motion GOING TOWARDS the basket..easy assists/buckets for guys like VC/Harris to RJ/Swift/Swat/Kristic.

[Serpo]

Who do you want to post `?

We have NO post scorer without a healthy Krstic .

[EFF]

thats why frank needs to go to Krstic more. And even if the big guys dont get their own shot, try to catch them rolling. We miss a few of those a quarter cuz we're so focused on the guard play.

[MrDollarBills]

ViNNNsanity is 100% correct. How is it that Carter faces double, sometimes TRIPLE teams, and there is not one play designed for someone to cut to the basket...this is simple, GRADE school basketball. Backdoor cuts!! Why is Carter drawing double teams and Jefferson is standing out on the opposite three point line? Jefferson is the 2nd best finisher around the basket on the team and most play calls him in position to shoot up horrible three point attempts?

HOW CAN SOME IDIOT HAVE AN OFFENSE THAT IS DESIGNED FOR JUMP SHOOTERS WHEN THERE ARE NONE ON THIS TEAM?

Serpo, with how Krstic looked last night, he should be getting touches in there to at least keep the defense honest. Hell, when he wasn't playing how he was last night he should have been getting post ups, a few of us have been saying this for a few days now.

[Serpo]

I'm not sure in the first quarter he looked great , then he got some rest and when he was in again in the 2nd he looked bad again . Don't know what happened .