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kamaze wrote:Just ignore me then and quit bitching.
What does that have to do with his turnovers? I guess you're ok with them missing the playoffs.
Prokorov wrote:kamaze wrote:Just ignore me then and quit bitching.
What does that have to do with his turnovers? I guess you're ok with them missing the playoffs.
Russell is the reason we might make the playoffs. if we miss it, it wont be because of his turnovers or anything he does.
also, go to the toronto board, lin is on the raps now
His shot selection has to improve for sure. Him making tough shots during that stretch has become a double-edged sword, because he's taking more and more "bad" shots now. When he's hot and they go in, it looks great. But he's been very inconsistent really since just before All-star game.MGrand15 wrote:DLo really has to be reined in a bit. His USG has gone up every month since December and it's gone up to absurd Westbrook / Harden levels. Way too many contested and fadeaway mid-range shots. Early in the year he was taking elbow jumpers but mostly when he had space. He's also not playing off ball AT ALL when Spencer is in the game. This isn't how the team got here. This isn't how DLo became an all star.
In January, the best month of his career arguably, he was at 24 and 8 on good percentages. Now it feels like he has to go for 35 and 12 for us to have a chance. That's not fair to him. He's not Harden. We can't expect that production out of him on a daily basis.
It definitely doesn't help that he and Harris are the only guys shooting over 35% from 3. Crabbe really went down at the worst time.
The rushed threes and contested fade away twos are the two biggest culprit of his bad shot selection.MrDollarBills wrote:yeah I think you both bring up good points, but on the flipside if Kenny doesn't ride Russell we're not really generating any offense. teams are not going to let Harris shoot. we have no Crabbe. Spencer and Caris, we really don't know what we're getting from them (although last night aside, Caris has been stepping up). Rodi is young, Allen is young. We don't really have much. We know we're getting 20 points or more from Russell every night. Not sure what else can be done at this point in the season.
Regarding Russell's shot selection, the only issue I really have is him taking those rushed threes early into the clock and contested long twos. That needs to stop.
I also think his shot selection and turnovers are due to fatigue. His usage rate is ridiculous right now. The guy is gassed and still is dropping 20-30 points a night. he needs some help, but it will have to wait til next season.
I don't know, I think this is actually a lot closer than what you might think.MrDollarBills wrote:The clowns on the GB (mostly Raptor fans and a Lin troll) think that if Pascal Siakam was swapped out for D'Angelo Russell, the Nets would be better
Nevermind the fact that Siakam plays on one of the 5 best rosters in basketball right now.
SpeedyG wrote:I don't know, I think this is actually a lot closer than what you might think.MrDollarBills wrote:The clowns on the GB (mostly Raptor fans and a Lin troll) think that if Pascal Siakam was swapped out for D'Angelo Russell, the Nets would be better
Nevermind the fact that Siakam plays on one of the 5 best rosters in basketball right now.
Siakiam fills our biggest weakness while we can still roll out Spencer/Caris at PG. Doesn't mean he's better, but more about roster construction.
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Right but we're not talking about who's better. They are talking about swapping places right?MrDollarBills wrote:SpeedyG wrote:I don't know, I think this is actually a lot closer than what you might think.MrDollarBills wrote:The clowns on the GB (mostly Raptor fans and a Lin troll) think that if Pascal Siakam was swapped out for D'Angelo Russell, the Nets would be better
Nevermind the fact that Siakam plays on one of the 5 best rosters in basketball right now.
Siakiam fills our biggest weakness while we can still roll out Spencer/Caris at PG. Doesn't mean he's better, but more about roster construction.
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The fact that Siakam benefits from playing with a waaaaay more talented roster is being ignored here. It's not even close what Russell has to deal with compared to Siakam who plays with all star level players across the board.
SpeedyG wrote:His shot selection has to improve for sure. Him making tough shots during that stretch has become a double-edged sword, because he's taking more and more "bad" shots now. When he's hot and they go in, it looks great. But he's been very inconsistent really since just before All-star game.MGrand15 wrote:DLo really has to be reined in a bit. His USG has gone up every month since December and it's gone up to absurd Westbrook / Harden levels. Way too many contested and fadeaway mid-range shots. Early in the year he was taking elbow jumpers but mostly when he had space. He's also not playing off ball AT ALL when Spencer is in the game. This isn't how the team got here. This isn't how DLo became an all star.
In January, the best month of his career arguably, he was at 24 and 8 on good percentages. Now it feels like he has to go for 35 and 12 for us to have a chance. That's not fair to him. He's not Harden. We can't expect that production out of him on a daily basis.
It definitely doesn't help that he and Harris are the only guys shooting over 35% from 3. Crabbe really went down at the worst time.
In fairness to him though, defenses have really changed how they play vs us: more switching which eliminates our 3 point shooting (especially Joe's) and hinders his pnr game.
Crabbe going down is hurting us, but let's face it, he's as streaky as they come.
But Caris and Spencer haven't shot well consistently either (and the three appears to take turns having "bad" games).
We (the coaches) need to find ways to get better shots. The quality of shots other teams get vs what we get is fairly drastic.
We are so predicated on pnr and three point shooting that once those are stopped (easily by long athletic teams I might add), the offense goes to the toilet.
And since we aren't getting good possessions, it is also bleeding to defense.
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SpeedyG wrote:Right but we're not talking about who's better. They are talking about swapping places right?MrDollarBills wrote:SpeedyG wrote:I don't know, I think this is actually a lot closer than what you might think.
Siakiam fills our biggest weakness while we can still roll out Spencer/Caris at PG. Doesn't mean he's better, but more about roster construction.
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The fact that Siakam benefits from playing with a waaaaay more talented roster is being ignored here. It's not even close what Russell has to deal with compared to Siakam who plays with all star level players across the board.
Russell will benefit having Kawhi, but Siakam can probably post some nice numbers here at a reduced efficiency.
And since we actually have more depth at PG than at PF, I think the upgrade from a young Rodi/old Dudley and Hodge podge of Rondae/Graham/DMC at PF to Siakam is greater than the downgrade from Russell to Spencer/Caris.
Russell no doubt deserves that all-star, but Siakam has made more improvements this season (if the discussion is who deserves MIP).
But who's better? That's Russell.
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gigantes wrote:Upvotes to you both, and thank you. I'm frankly not knowledgeable enough to put forth an opinion, but this kind of well-constructed debate is what makes this board shine IMO.
Seriously, thank everyone in this sub for making this place levels better than any other Nets discussion place I've ever visited. That also includes NI's ugly hangout on Dave D'Allessandro's old newspaper. Crazy how the years have gone, really...
I think that's the argument for Russell. From a numbers stand point and changing his game stand point, I think Siakam has this won. But there is that line that separates good supporting players vs all-star caliber players that carries a team, and that line isn't a clear distinction for many...but Russell clearly crossed that threshold.MrDollarBills wrote:SpeedyG wrote:Right but we're not talking about who's better. They are talking about swapping places right?MrDollarBills wrote:
The fact that Siakam benefits from playing with a waaaaay more talented roster is being ignored here. It's not even close what Russell has to deal with compared to Siakam who plays with all star level players across the board.
Russell will benefit having Kawhi, but Siakam can probably post some nice numbers here at a reduced efficiency.
And since we actually have more depth at PG than at PF, I think the upgrade from a young Rodi/old Dudley and Hodge podge of Rondae/Graham/DMC at PF to Siakam is greater than the downgrade from Russell to Spencer/Caris.
Russell no doubt deserves that all-star, but Siakam has made more improvements this season (if the discussion is who deserves MIP).
But who's better? That's Russell.
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Here's my thing though...Siakam is a solid player, he'd honestly be perfect here at PF. However, as the #1 option go to guy on this roster? I don't think he'd be anywhere near as effective. That's another reason why I don't support him getting MIP over Russell. Dude has literally had to go on epic scoring tears just to get this team over the hump most of the time. Siakam doesn't have to do any of that when he's playing with again, a frickin all star team with Leonard, Ibaka, Lowry, Gasol, Green etc. You put the ball in his hands in this offense and tell him to make something out of nothing, I doubt he's going to be able to do that.
SpeedyG wrote:I think that's the argument for Russell. From a numbers stand point and changing his game stand point, I think Siakam has this won. But there is that line that separates good supporting players vs all-star caliber players that carries a team, and that line isn't a clear distinction for many...but Russell clearly crossed that threshold.MrDollarBills wrote:SpeedyG wrote:Right but we're not talking about who's better. They are talking about swapping places right?
Russell will benefit having Kawhi, but Siakam can probably post some nice numbers here at a reduced efficiency.
And since we actually have more depth at PG than at PF, I think the upgrade from a young Rodi/old Dudley and Hodge podge of Rondae/Graham/DMC at PF to Siakam is greater than the downgrade from Russell to Spencer/Caris.
Russell no doubt deserves that all-star, but Siakam has made more improvements this season (if the discussion is who deserves MIP).
But who's better? That's Russell.
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Here's my thing though...Siakam is a solid player, he'd honestly be perfect here at PF. However, as the #1 option go to guy on this roster? I don't think he'd be anywhere near as effective. That's another reason why I don't support him getting MIP over Russell. Dude has literally had to go on epic scoring tears just to get this team over the hump most of the time. Siakam doesn't have to do any of that when he's playing with again, a frickin all star team with Leonard, Ibaka, Lowry, Gasol, Green etc. You put the ball in his hands in this offense and tell him to make something out of nothing, I doubt he's going to be able to do that.
Personally, I'm high on Pascal and think he's got another level to his game. You may recall a few months ago before he even appeared near the top of this race that I already brought up the option of going after him Otto Porter style if we missed out this off season.
To Raptors fans, they feel Siakam would have been able to take that step if asked...like Russell had to. I'm not sure I can argue against that given Leonard, Lowry had missed games and Siakam played a big role not only keeping them afloat but still reaching #2 in the East.
But let's face it, this is only a discussion because Russell has cooled down a bit and were falling out of the playoff race.
Had he stayed hot and were still 6th (shoot at one point it looked like we had a longshot at 5th), the narrative would have been in Russell's favor regardless of the tangible improvements that pascal has made.
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