The Official Lin Net Thread

[Prokorov]

The only way for Lin to reach 20ppg would be for him to really improve his scoring ability.

- Including his Linsanity period, we have zero evidence that he can handle that much of a scoring load over an 82-game season

The 11 guys in your example of scoring average were STARTING POINT GUARDs who have the reigns to their offense. Lin hasn't been a starter in 3 1/2 seasons and arguably was used in non-optimal roles the entire time as defensive specialist, combo-guard and decoy.

Compare those guys to Lin's scoring stats after this full season as the Nets starting PG and then you'll have something. To claim that Lin has never approached the scoring of elite STARTING PGs is an obviously unfair comparison.

Yes, I understand that.

But what I am responding to is the PROJECTION that Lin will score 20ppg. I'm basing that off of stats accumulated thus far in his career including the season for which he was a starter.

With that said, Lin has gotten better since those early years and the overall context in which he will be accumulating his stats is quite different than any other situation he's had before.

While Lin will have more opportunities to score, he'll also be anywhere from the best to the 3rd best Net on the floor who will play 30-32mpg. He garner the most or 2nd most attention from the opposition and teams will gameplan for him moreso than ever before. It's impossible to foresee which side will ultimately win out given the number of new variables that impacting Lin's on-court performance this year.

It will be impossible to accurately assess what will happen until the regular season actually begins. All that we have to base our opinions on are stats from previous seasons and (what each of us believe are) logical arguments about how Lin's intangibles and the contextual variables of the game will impact positively or negatively on his on-court production.

I'm just looking forward to seeing him go out there and just ball.

i dont disagree with most of that. my thing is while he may be the 3rd best net, i dont think he will get the third most FGA. especially if bogs is coming off the bench. with his aggression, lopez lack of it, and foye/booker/rhj not being offense creators. i think there is an excellent chance we will see 16+ FGA from lin.

and while focus may be on him, i think thats balanced by what i expect to be a poor team. and usually, teams dont go out of there way to double guys on bad teams. they just come out and play their game and they will win. as an example, look at how frequently lopez was double last season, as our only real threat

we will see.

[Prokorov]

[

Lin has Brook Lopez, Bojan, and vets like Scola Booker and some shooters in Harris and Hamilton. Plus all the roster are team first guys with a capable coaching staff. Lin has no excuses because this team is basically built for him and Brook.
.

the nets have less talent then any other team in the NBA.

to suggest that lin should be judged based on the nets record is absurd.

half the nets team is second rounders, undrafted players, and guys who werent in the NBA last year. our best player is a 1 time all star. we had the worst defense in the NBA last year. these arent things you turn around with just a new PG, unless that point gaurd is like westbrook or chris paul.

and if you thought lin was on the paul/westbrook level then your problem lies there.

[Kswiss]

I think it's fair to say that we all need to see how this team plays in regular season competitive games before we can make any concrete conclusions. Personally I do see Lin as a top 5 PG so I don't think it's unreasonable to say he will vastly improve the team. However, I think playoffs may take around 44 wins so while possible that's a pretty steep jump for a 21 win team to take in one year. 40 wins would still be outstanding. I'm optimistic that this team will surprise people especially when we are playing our best lineups and trying to win games come regular season. The backup PG is our only glaring hole that's far below league average. Other than that, we have (in my opinion) an elite PG and top 5-10 center along with hard-noses complimentary role players and a mostly solid bench. That's really not as grim as many people make it out to be but at the same time, a lot is gonna have to break right for this team to make the playoffs.

[13th Man]

Atkinson did come out and say Lin was too much just part of the motion offense rather than be the quarterback.

I agree, it'd be good to have Lin initiate basically every possession cuz none of the other starters is very good at it

If so, his stats would be pretty good, both scoring and assist

This is the reason why I have more modest expectations of Lin, everybody is assuming that his usage rate will be like during Linsanity but Atkinson doesn't want that he wants a more balanced offense that flows through everybody.

I'm predicting 17/8 for Lin, with the Nets winning 23-28 games. None of this MVP, HOF BS talk.

[hood30]

Let's keep the expectation low bud. Success is much sweeter when you least expect it.

Agree 100% with this..Don't understand why Lin fan want to raise the bar so high on Lin.

I can see why a guy who doesn't think much of Lin, wanting to raise the bar so that when he fails to reach it, he could say Lin had a bad year...but I don't get why would a true fan of Lin go out there and guaranty an all-star year from Lin.

My expectation is 16ppg and 5...5 assist is low, but it's based on how persistent Kenny will be in running the motion offense which equal to less PnR action for Lin.

If Lin was under Mike D'Antoni's system, I'd be a bit more confident of a big year..Under the motion offense, it will depend much more on how good can Lin shoot the 3PT shot...anything about 37% will probably be very good for Lin as for Production.

But keep expectation realistic..No need for Lin fan to themselves raise the bar.

[bws94]

Atkinson did come out and say Lin was too much just part of the motion offense rather than be the quarterback.

I agree, it'd be good to have Lin initiate basically every possession cuz none of the other starters is very good at it

If so, his stats would be pretty good, both scoring and assist

This is the reason why I have more modest expectations of Lin, everybody is assuming that his usage rate will be like during Linsanity but Atkinson doesn't want that he wants a more balanced offense that flows through everybody.

I'm predicting 17/8 for Lin, with the Nets winning 23-28 games. None of this MVP, HOF BS talk.

Those would be excellent numbers for Lin. I hope the Nets win the higher end of 23-28. I really hope 30 games or better.

[hood30]

Makes sense, but that's not the point I've been trying to make. I expect success and I see it coming for this team this season a mile away in the form of a playoff birth.

I'm pretty certain Lin is going to help this team make the playoffs. I've explained the logic in previous posts. If and when they make it, I'm hoping those who didn't see it coming or view it as a long shot look back and wonder what they missed and why others like myself were so certain.

After all this is a Nets based Jeremy Lin thread. Like the Op said, I speak for myself and nobody else.

If the Nets don't make the playoffs, in my opinion, Jeremy Lin is just a decent backup PG who isn't good enough to be starting on a good NBA team as Matt Moore of CBS Sports recently wrote last month. In fact, if the Nets don't make it, and Lin plays almost all the games, I'll be the first to admit I have terrible basketball analytical skills and that I completely missed the boat on Jeremy Lin and that he isn't that good or the PG savior I predicted him to be for this franchise.

This post right here is exactly why some people think you're a troll.

So basically, you are saying that unless Lin lead the Brooklyn Nets to the playoff and then proceed in having an All-Star year himself, he's a scrub?...This is a team that won 21 games last year with only Lopez as a legitimate NBA starter..

You are basically setting up Lin to fail with huge expectation with low chance of him reaching it...Sound like something a Lin hater would do....

At Cluthfan, there's many Lin haters who insist that unless Lin make the All-Star, he's a scrub simply because only Lopez can score, but you fail to see that Lin will attract more attention from defenses and team will concentrate on taking away his drives to the basket and PnR...With no court-spacing, it could get ugly for Lin unless he can shoot 40% from 3point....Booker, RHJ and Foye will not spread the floor for Lin, making his job harder.

First of all, we all agree that Brooklyn, talent-wize, is not stocked...and Lin, himself, does not have top 5 PG abilities..but yet, you've stated that unless he carries this team in the playoff and proceed in having an All Star year, you will admit that he's nothing more than an average PG??....Even Curry would find it hard to carry Brooklyn to the playoff

If Lin can win 30 games with this team, he should get a lot of credit since it would easily pass media expectation of 21 games.

Teague, Rubio, Dragic, Holliday, Collison are all seen as good PG by the media....Lin needs to reach their level of play first before even expecting him to be put on par with guys like Paul, Curry, Lillard, Westbrook.

If Lin reaches your expectation, he should be MVP solely based on getting Brooklyn to the playoff.

As for me, I'm fine with 17/5 for Lin..43%FG and 35% 3PTFG...and Brooklyn winning about 30 games.

My prediction for Brooklyn is to win 41 games and make the playoff, but I admit this prediction is based on my heart and what I'm hoping to see..But I would not bet house money or my life on Lin making the All-Star and Brooklyn making the playoff..Only fools with money to lose would bet on this to happen.

[13th Man]

Atkinson did come out and say Lin was too much just part of the motion offense rather than be the quarterback.

I agree, it'd be good to have Lin initiate basically every possession cuz none of the other starters is very good at it

If so, his stats would be pretty good, both scoring and assist

This is the reason why I have more modest expectations of Lin, everybody is assuming that his usage rate will be like during Linsanity but Atkinson doesn't want that he wants a more balanced offense that flows through everybody.

I'm predicting 17/8 for Lin, with the Nets winning 23-28 games. None of this MVP, HOF BS talk.

Those would be excellent numbers for Lin. I hope the Nets win the higher end of 23-28. I really hope 30 games or better.

Come to think of it, the 8 assists is a bit optimistic. I would love for the Nets to win over 30 games as well, we'll see how they fare after 20 games or so.

[KungFuJoe]

The difference between Lin getting 16ppg and 20ppg is his 3 point shot. If he can get it anywhere near 40%, he will definitely get up there...if not...then not.

Teams that have a good shot blocking big (Miami, Clippers, etc) usually limit his scoring because they limit his drives and he hasn't really been able to fall back on a reliable 3pt shot.

[KungFuJoe]

As far as assists are concerned...don't expect too many. 6-7pg is probably where he'll be at. During Linsanity, he was around 8 or 9 but his usage rate was ridiculous. He will have the ball much less in a motion offense.

He was around 6 a game with Houston, even with Harden commanding the ball so much, but my god that team could score like no other...especially when they had Delfino and Patterson, both who were perfect for Lin to drive and kick to. Parsons was great off the ball, hell even Asik was a decent roll man back then. Lin had a LOT of options.

Nets just don't have the guys who can really score the ball for Lin to rack up a lot of assists.

[reelsgm]

As far as assists are concerned...don't expect too many. 6-7pg is probably where he'll be at.

Nets just don't have the guys who can really score the ball for Lin to rack up a lot of assists.

Past 2 games Lin's racked up 12 assists in 50 min. to an assortment of guys. You can say pre-season etc... but those ast numbers are right there with the best PGs in the league so far.

Regardless, Lin has played with many guys who weren't known for "scoring the ball". An incomplete list of guys who either had their best eFG% in at least a 4 yr window or of their entire careers when playing with Lin, some are from your Houston team:

Steve Novak
Tyson Chandler
Jared Jeffries
Terrence Jones
Omer Asik
Marcus Morris
Patrick Patterson
Carlos Delfino
Omri Casspi
Ed Davis
Chandler Parsons
Tarik Black
Marvin Williams
Jeremy Lamb
Cody Zeller

I'm sure you can explain away and attribute some other reason. As a Lin fan I like to believe the preponderance of the evidence is that Lin makes his teammates (even non-superstars) better by setting them up to make easy baskets in the spots they like.

[KungFuJoe]

Lin is a willing passer, but I don't know if he makes things any easier for his teammates. But honestly, those types of PGs are rare these days. You got Chris Paul, Rubio and Rondo....and everyone else. So not a big knock on him.

[bws94]

Lin is a willing passer, but I don't know if he makes things any easier for his teammates. But honestly, those types of PGs are rare these days. You got Chris Paul, Rubio and Rondo....and everyone else. So not a big knock on him.

Lin's talent is drawing defenses and getting it to the open man. The open man converts or not. So, of course, you need to have guys that can knock down perimeter shots or finish at the rim. Or are athletic enough to run out and receive Lin's football passes and finish. That's where he had more talent on previous teams, but maybe he gets the chemistry with RHJ, SKil when they play together because they surely are athletic. And Bogs and Hamilton can shoot the perimeter J.

I think Lin is still more combo guard than PG. Most PGs in today's game are scoring PGs. I would encourage Lin to just play his natural game, don't worry about quarterbacking anything. He's naturally inclined to want to get teammates going, but one of the guys he should make sure he gets going is himself in terms of scoring the ball. I still think at times he could "go to the ball" more once the motion offense starts. Like he did in game 1.

[GoodDayLa]

So under your logic I guess John Wall who couldn't get his team in the playoffs last year sucks and much of the rest of the NBA experts who see him as a top 5 NBA PG are all wrong, since Lin will be judged as nothing more than a decent backup if he can't get this very weak roster into the playoffs.

I think John Wall has gotten poor coaching from Randy Whitman and whomever his development team is. He still tends to play inefficiently and his outside shot is not strong enough.

Now that he's getting older and his body is breaking down, he'll struggle even more as his athleticism fades.

Just my opinion.

Wall is 26.

yeah but didn't he had knee surgery on both knees this summer? You can be 16, 26, or 36, that's not a good sign.

He was very good and efficient the season they made the playoffs. Perhaps its just his body gave out last season (which is what the media articles claim - knee pain robbing him of his game and focus) so he couldn't do what he did the season before where he looked much better and more focused as a PG.

People respond to knee pain and different surgeries differently. Look at RB Adrian Peterson who rebounded so well. Impossible to tell.

[GoodDayLa]

Makes sense, but that's not the point I've been trying to make. I expect success and I see it coming for this team this season a mile away in the form of a playoff birth.

I'm pretty certain Lin is going to help this team make the playoffs. I've explained the logic in previous posts. If and when they make it, I'm hoping those who didn't see it coming or view it as a long shot look back and wonder what they missed and why others like myself were so certain.

After all this is a Nets based Jeremy Lin thread. Like the Op said, I speak for myself and nobody else.

If the Nets don't make the playoffs, in my opinion, Jeremy Lin is just a decent backup PG who isn't good enough to be starting on a good NBA team as Matt Moore of CBS Sports recently wrote last month. In fact, if the Nets don't make it, and Lin plays almost all the games, I'll be the first to admit I have terrible basketball analytical skills and that I completely missed the boat on Jeremy Lin and that he isn't that good or the PG savior I predicted him to be for this franchise.

This post right here is exactly why some people think you're a troll.

So basically, you are saying that unless Lin lead the Brooklyn Nets to the playoff and then proceed in having an All-Star year himself, he's a scrub?...This is a team that won 21 games last year with only Lopez as a legitimate NBA starter..

You are basically setting up Lin to fail with huge expectation with low chance of him reaching it...Sound like something a Lin hater would do....

At Cluthfan, there's many Lin haters who insist that unless Lin make the All-Star, he's a scrub simply because only Lopez can score, but you fail to see that Lin will attract more attention from defenses and team will concentrate on taking away his drives to the basket and PnR...With no court-spacing, it could get ugly for Lin unless he can shoot 40% from 3point....Booker, RHJ and Foye will not spread the floor for Lin, making his job harder.

First of all, we all agree that Brooklyn, talent-wize, is not stocked...and Lin, himself, does not have top 5 PG abilities..but yet, you've stated that unless he carries this team in the playoff and proceed in having an All Star year, you will admit that he's nothing more than an average PG??....Even Curry would find it hard to carry Brooklyn to the playoff

If Lin can win 30 games with this team, he should get a lot of credit since it would easily pass media expectation of 21 games.

Teague, Rubio, Dragic, Holliday, Collison are all seen as good PG by the media....Lin needs to reach their level of play first before even expecting him to be put on par with guys like Paul, Curry, Lillard, Westbrook.

If Lin reaches your expectation, he should be MVP solely based on getting Brooklyn to the playoff.

As for me, I'm fine with 17/5 for Lin..43%FG and 35% 3PTFG...and Brooklyn winning about 30 games.

My prediction for Brooklyn is to win 41 games and make the playoff, but I admit this prediction is based on my heart and what I'm hoping to see..But I would not bet house money or my life on Lin making the All-Star and Brooklyn making the playoff..Only fools with money to lose would bet on this to happen.

Let's just let the games play out and we'll revisit when the season nears or the Nets are eliminated from the playoffs. We need the games to play out.

[GoodDayLa]

[

Lin has Brook Lopez, Bojan, and vets like Scola Booker and some shooters in Harris and Hamilton. Plus all the roster are team first guys with a capable coaching staff. Lin has no excuses because this team is basically built for him and Brook.
.

the nets have less talent then any other team in the NBA.

to suggest that lin should be judged based on the nets record is absurd.

half the nets team is second rounders, undrafted players, and guys who werent in the NBA last year. our best player is a 1 time all star. we had the worst defense in the NBA last year. these arent things you turn around with just a new PG, unless that point gaurd is like westbrook or chris paul.

and if you thought lin was on the paul/westbrook level then your problem lies there.

This is a fantastic post and this is where the foundation of our disagreements lie. Let's revisit when the season ends.

[Roy Tarpley]

[

Lin has Brook Lopez, Bojan, and vets like Scola Booker and some shooters in Harris and Hamilton. Plus all the roster are team first guys with a capable coaching staff. Lin has no excuses because this team is basically built for him and Brook.
.

the nets have less talent then any other team in the NBA.

to suggest that lin should be judged based on the nets record is absurd.

half the nets team is second rounders, undrafted players, and guys who werent in the NBA last year. our best player is a 1 time all star. we had the worst defense in the NBA last year. these arent things you turn around with just a new PG, unless that point gaurd is like westbrook or chris paul.

and if you thought lin was on the paul/westbrook level then your problem lies there.

This is a fantastic post and this is where the foundation of our disagreements lie. Let's revisit when the season ends.

LOL, I think Prokorov expertly identified that GoodDayLa is not a troll but rather a super Lin fan whose world will come crashing down if the Nets can't make the playoffs.

[ChokeFasncists]

To the regular, moderate Lin posters that I recognize from my time lurking on the CHA forums (e.g. 13th Man, bws94, ChokeFasncists, Roy Tarpley, TinmanZBoy, etc.), I would suggest not bothering to reply to posters with really extreme opinions.

It seems that contents in posts of a handful of posters are written to provoke responses from the more moderate Lin fans (and the long-time Brooklyn fans as well) for their personal entertainment. Do not feed these posts.

Cheers!

Sorry man, but I do find this pretty entertaining as well.......

(of course, that's until someone comes in and be like, since a guy who makes outrageous claims is a Lin fan, all Lin fans are like this. That's no fun)

[KungFuJoe]

Saying [player] is a scrub if [team] doesn't make the playoffs makes you either a troll, or not very knowledgeable in basketball..or team sports in general.

Take your pick.

[GoodDayLa]

the nets have less talent then any other team in the NBA.

to suggest that lin should be judged based on the nets record is absurd.

half the nets team is second rounders, undrafted players, and guys who werent in the NBA last year. our best player is a 1 time all star. we had the worst defense in the NBA last year. these arent things you turn around with just a new PG, unless that point gaurd is like westbrook or chris paul.

and if you thought lin was on the paul/westbrook level then your problem lies there.

This is a fantastic post and this is where the foundation of our disagreements lie. Let's revisit when the season ends.

LOL, I think Prokorov expertly identified that GoodDayLa is not a troll but rather a super Lin fan whose world will come crashing down if the Nets can't make the playoffs.

My world? No not at all.

If a healthy Lin and Brook miss the playoffs, it would lead me to believe i have very poor basketball analysis skills and we're talking a lot of basketball through the years at this point. It would also tell me I had blinders on for Jlin and was reaching way too far. However either way the result will be interesting for me personally and it'll be fun.

Now I did say Lin & Brook have to stay healthy. They've both got to play in at least 70+ games.