Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[Hello Brooklyn]

I love Spencer to death, but trading him for what you suggest is the absolute correct move. Spencer is not staying and the Nets aren't going to pay him what he's worth.

The concern I have however, is the durability of Kyrie Irving and Caris LeVert.

I love Spencer and he has repped the Nets proudly for so long. Hes a big reason why Kyrie is here.

But I agree that hes not going to be here after next year. Hes gotta cash out.

If so, I think we take a look at the market and see what makes sense. Aaron Gordon would make a ton of sense. I might do it for Josh Richardson too.

Tbh, I just don't see the sense Richardson makes. I don't hate him, but he's not really an upgrade, even in fit.

He has a player option for the 21-22 season as well, and so can and most likely will, just as easily opt out.

And Spencer is the better player, has better size and probably equal athleticism. And much higher BBIQ.

Then add to this the perfect fit Dinwiddie is on the Sixers, so why help them out?

If you're going to deal Spencer, I think it needs to be either part of a bigger deal such as Jrue or Beal, etc., or a clear near-even talent swap on someone locked up longer, or to move up in the draft, or taking a risk on someone whose value is sunk and is in contract year too, like Oladipo.

I think he definitely fits way better. Richardson is a good defender and better shooter than Spencer. We can play him in certain lineups.

I don't know if Dinwiddie has the value to be the centerpiece of an All Star player trade.

[vincecarter4pres]

I love Spencer and he has repped the Nets proudly for so long. Hes a big reason why Kyrie is here.

But I agree that hes not going to be here after next year. Hes gotta cash out.

If so, I think we take a look at the market and see what makes sense. Aaron Gordon would make a ton of sense. I might do it for Josh Richardson too.

Tbh, I just don't see the sense Richardson makes. I don't hate him, but he's not really an upgrade, even in fit.

He has a player option for the 21-22 season as well, and so can and most likely will, just as easily opt out.

And Spencer is the better player, has better size and probably equal athleticism. And much higher BBIQ.

Then add to this the perfect fit Dinwiddie is on the Sixers, so why help them out?

If you're going to deal Spencer, I think it needs to be either part of a bigger deal such as Jrue or Beal, etc., or a clear near-even talent swap on someone locked up longer, or to move up in the draft, or taking a risk on someone whose value is sunk and is in contract year too, like Oladipo.

I think he definitely fits way better. Richardson is a good defender and better shooter than Spencer. We can play him in certain lineups.

I don't know if Dinwiddie has the value to be the centerpiece of an All Star player trade.

I know we've discussed this one a lot, but personally, I still don't see Richardson as such an upgrade even solely as a shooter and defender that I'd swap Spencer for him straight up, when Richardson goes into JR Smith mode too often for my liking. Richardson is a good defender and a solid shooter, but he's not exactly a great defender or even very good shooter. And he's a little on the small/slim side of stature. Dinwiddie has the size, length, foot speed, athleticism and smarts to be just as good a defender and has shown he's solid there. He's also a reasonably good shooter, especially if we're talking about him in a more complementary role and/or roasting bench units, where he's not forcing as many difficult shots out of necessity.

And to mention again, it's not like Richardson is locked up on a long contract, so you don't solve that problem at all either. If Richardson's contract went at least 2 seasons before his player option I'd be more obliged to agree with you. But you're basically saying you'd rather have one season of Richardson over one season of Dinwiddie.

I agree, I doubt Spencer could be the centerpiece of a blockbuster either, but he could be a big piece of one.

If Spencer is dealt I'd prefer Marks uses him to move into the top 10 in this draft if there's a kid he loves that won't be there at 19, or he finds a longer term solution because he knows or feels Dinwiddie is going to bolt next summer.

Even something like Spence and Temple for Eric Gordon could be interesting if Houston liked the idea.

[vincecarter4pres]

Caris LeVert

for

7th overall pick
Tony Snell

Who says no?

[Hello Brooklyn]

Tbh, I just don't see the sense Richardson makes. I don't hate him, but he's not really an upgrade, even in fit.

He has a player option for the 21-22 season as well, and so can and most likely will, just as easily opt out.

And Spencer is the better player, has better size and probably equal athleticism. And much higher BBIQ.

Then add to this the perfect fit Dinwiddie is on the Sixers, so why help them out?

If you're going to deal Spencer, I think it needs to be either part of a bigger deal such as Jrue or Beal, etc., or a clear near-even talent swap on someone locked up longer, or to move up in the draft, or taking a risk on someone whose value is sunk and is in contract year too, like Oladipo.

I think he definitely fits way better. Richardson is a good defender and better shooter than Spencer. We can play him in certain lineups.

I don't know if Dinwiddie has the value to be the centerpiece of an All Star player trade.

I know we've discussed this one a lot, but personally, I still don't see Richardson as such an upgrade even solely as a shooter and defender that I'd swap Spencer for him straight up, when Richardson goes into JR Smith mode too often for my liking. Richardson is a good defender and a solid shooter, but he's not exactly a great defender or even very good shooter. And he's a little on the small/slim side of stature. Dinwiddie has the size, length, foot speed, athleticism and smarts to be just as good a defender and has shown he's solid there. He's also a reasonably good shooter, especially if we're talking about him in a more complementary role and/or roasting bench units, where he's not forcing as many difficult shots out of necessity.

And to mention again, it's not like Richardson is locked up on a long contract, so you don't solve that problem at all either. If Richardson's contract went at least 2 seasons before his player option I'd be more obliged to agree with you. But you're basically saying you'd rather have one season of Richardson over one season of Dinwiddie.

I agree, I doubt Spencer could be the centerpiece of a blockbuster either, but he could be a big piece of one.

If Spencer is dealt I'd prefer Marks uses him to move into the top 10 in this draft if there's a kid he loves that won't be there at 19, or he finds a longer term solution because he knows or feels Dinwiddie is going to bolt next summer.

Even something like Spence and Temple for Eric Gordon could be interesting if Houston liked the idea.

I don't know man. I could easily be convinced to keep Spencer.

I think we can make it work and he can become a really good switchable defender in the right system. He certainly has the size to do it.

I'm more worried about his shooting than you are, but I do think he can improve with more spacing.

Still think the most movable piece is Allen, since we really don't need him. Especially with the NBA getting smaller every year.

[vincecarter4pres]

I think he definitely fits way better. Richardson is a good defender and better shooter than Spencer. We can play him in certain lineups.

I don't know if Dinwiddie has the value to be the centerpiece of an All Star player trade.

I know we've discussed this one a lot, but personally, I still don't see Richardson as such an upgrade even solely as a shooter and defender that I'd swap Spencer for him straight up, when Richardson goes into JR Smith mode too often for my liking. Richardson is a good defender and a solid shooter, but he's not exactly a great defender or even very good shooter. And he's a little on the small/slim side of stature. Dinwiddie has the size, length, foot speed, athleticism and smarts to be just as good a defender and has shown he's solid there. He's also a reasonably good shooter, especially if we're talking about him in a more complementary role and/or roasting bench units, where he's not forcing as many difficult shots out of necessity.

And to mention again, it's not like Richardson is locked up on a long contract, so you don't solve that problem at all either. If Richardson's contract went at least 2 seasons before his player option I'd be more obliged to agree with you. But you're basically saying you'd rather have one season of Richardson over one season of Dinwiddie.

I agree, I doubt Spencer could be the centerpiece of a blockbuster either, but he could be a big piece of one.

If Spencer is dealt I'd prefer Marks uses him to move into the top 10 in this draft if there's a kid he loves that won't be there at 19, or he finds a longer term solution because he knows or feels Dinwiddie is going to bolt next summer.

Even something like Spence and Temple for Eric Gordon could be interesting if Houston liked the idea.

I don't know man. I could easily be convinced to keep Spencer.

I think we can make it work and he can become a really good switchable defender in the right system. He certainly has the size to do it.

I'm more worried about his shooting than you are, but I do think he can improve with more spacing.

Still think the most movable piece is Allen, since we really don't need him. Especially with the NBA getting smaller every year.

Yeah I'd be fine keeping Dinwiddie.

I disagree on Allen though, to me he isn't expendable unless the wing you're bringing back is a primo 3&D guy.
He's exactly the guy you want out there with a 2 guard/2 wing/1 big man lineup. And even if DJ can keep up his high level play, he doesn't play 48 minutes a night, nor 82 games a year. Yes he and Allen duplicate a lot of things, but it's not like you're running them out there together and Allen is a lot more mobile on defense. You have a DJ/Allen combo, then you do have 48 minutes of great play out of the 5 spot where you just put them out there with any combination of guards and wings all the time.

Unless you tell me you're getting one of the best 3&D wings out there for Allen, and somehow landing Ibaka or Favors, or someone like that, I don't like the idea of dealing him just for the sake of.



On topic, but off, we were discussing Covington the other night and I got to say, I hadn't seen him play a lot since he was traded from Philly a couple years ago, but I was definitely underrating him. His man on man D on fast guards isn't great, but as a team and help defender, and man defending 3's and 4's, even some 5, he is a beast. And his shot is nice and his IQ is above average. He really is pretty much the perfect 3&D player within reason, if we're not talking supercharged guys like Klay and Paul George. He can finish, run the break, moves without the ball, has enough handle to get by and is a decent passer.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I know we've discussed this one a lot, but personally, I still don't see Richardson as such an upgrade even solely as a shooter and defender that I'd swap Spencer for him straight up, when Richardson goes into JR Smith mode too often for my liking. Richardson is a good defender and a solid shooter, but he's not exactly a great defender or even very good shooter. And he's a little on the small/slim side of stature. Dinwiddie has the size, length, foot speed, athleticism and smarts to be just as good a defender and has shown he's solid there. He's also a reasonably good shooter, especially if we're talking about him in a more complementary role and/or roasting bench units, where he's not forcing as many difficult shots out of necessity.

And to mention again, it's not like Richardson is locked up on a long contract, so you don't solve that problem at all either. If Richardson's contract went at least 2 seasons before his player option I'd be more obliged to agree with you. But you're basically saying you'd rather have one season of Richardson over one season of Dinwiddie.

I agree, I doubt Spencer could be the centerpiece of a blockbuster either, but he could be a big piece of one.

If Spencer is dealt I'd prefer Marks uses him to move into the top 10 in this draft if there's a kid he loves that won't be there at 19, or he finds a longer term solution because he knows or feels Dinwiddie is going to bolt next summer.

Even something like Spence and Temple for Eric Gordon could be interesting if Houston liked the idea.

I don't know man. I could easily be convinced to keep Spencer.

I think we can make it work and he can become a really good switchable defender in the right system. He certainly has the size to do it.

I'm more worried about his shooting than you are, but I do think he can improve with more spacing.

Still think the most movable piece is Allen, since we really don't need him. Especially with the NBA getting smaller every year.

Yeah I'd be fine keeping Dinwiddie.

I disagree on Allen though, to me he isn't expendable unless the wing you're bringing back is a primo 3&D guy.
He's exactly the guy you want out there with a 2 guard/2 wing/1 big man lineup. And even if DJ can keep up his high level play, he doesn't play 48 minutes a night, nor 82 games a year. Yes he and Allen duplicate a lot of things, but it's not like you're running them out there together and Allen is a lot more mobile on defense. You have a DJ/Allen combo, then you do have 48 minutes of great play out of the 5 spot where you just put them out there with any combination of guards and wings all the time.

Unless you tell me you're getting one of the best 3&D wings out there for Allen, and somehow landing Ibaka or Favors, or someone like that, I don't like the idea of dealing him just for the sake of.



On topic, but off, we were discussing Covington the other night and I got to say, I hadn't seen him play a lot since he was traded from Philly a couple years ago, but I was definitely underrating him. His man on man D on fast guards isn't great, but as a team and help defender, and man defending 3's and 4's, even some 5, he is a beast. And his shot is nice and his IQ is above average. He really is pretty much the perfect 3&D player within reason, if we're not talking supercharged guys like Klay and Paul George. He can finish, run the break, moves without the ball, has enough handle to get by and is a decent passer.

I wouldn't deal him for the sake of. It would have to be for a good 3&D type wing. Not "one of the best" like you're saying, but one who is as talented as he is.

I just don't see us playing both of them a ton in the playoffs. Eventually we will go small like every other team.

I also really don't see us resigning him more so than Dinwiddie. You simply can't tie 20 million + in the Center position. It makes no sense if the modern NBA.

But if no good deal arises, we keep him.

Yeah Covington has been awesome. I agree.

The more I think about this team, the more I'm hoping Nash can transform us into modern teams like the Cs or Rockets.

I would love to experiment with 3 guard lineups like Kyrie/Dinwiddie/Levert.

Maybe if Prince re-commits to defense we can think about playing him at the 5 for certain fast paced lineups.

Kyrie/Levert/Dinwddie/KD/Prince

May not work but just throwing out ideas.

[vincecarter4pres]

I don't know man. I could easily be convinced to keep Spencer.

I think we can make it work and he can become a really good switchable defender in the right system. He certainly has the size to do it.

I'm more worried about his shooting than you are, but I do think he can improve with more spacing.

Still think the most movable piece is Allen, since we really don't need him. Especially with the NBA getting smaller every year.

Yeah I'd be fine keeping Dinwiddie.

I disagree on Allen though, to me he isn't expendable unless the wing you're bringing back is a primo 3&D guy.
He's exactly the guy you want out there with a 2 guard/2 wing/1 big man lineup. And even if DJ can keep up his high level play, he doesn't play 48 minutes a night, nor 82 games a year. Yes he and Allen duplicate a lot of things, but it's not like you're running them out there together and Allen is a lot more mobile on defense. You have a DJ/Allen combo, then you do have 48 minutes of great play out of the 5 spot where you just put them out there with any combination of guards and wings all the time.

Unless you tell me you're getting one of the best 3&D wings out there for Allen, and somehow landing Ibaka or Favors, or someone like that, I don't like the idea of dealing him just for the sake of.



On topic, but off, we were discussing Covington the other night and I got to say, I hadn't seen him play a lot since he was traded from Philly a couple years ago, but I was definitely underrating him. His man on man D on fast guards isn't great, but as a team and help defender, and man defending 3's and 4's, even some 5, he is a beast. And his shot is nice and his IQ is above average. He really is pretty much the perfect 3&D player within reason, if we're not talking supercharged guys like Klay and Paul George. He can finish, run the break, moves without the ball, has enough handle to get by and is a decent passer.

I wouldn't deal him for the sake of. It would have to be for a good 3&D type wing. Not "one of the best" like you're saying, but one who is as talented as he is.

I just don't see us playing both of them a ton in the playoffs. Eventually we will go small like every other team.

I also really don't see us resigning him more so than Dinwiddie. You simply can't tie 20 million + in the Center position. It makes no sense if the modern NBA.

But if no good deal arises, we keep him.

Yeah Covington has been awesome. I agree.

The more I think about this team, the more I'm hoping Nash can transform us into modern teams like the Cs or Rockets.

I would love to experiment with 3 guard lineups like Kyrie/Dinwiddie/Levert.

Maybe if Prince re-commits to defense we can think about playing him at the 5 for certain fast paced lineups.

Kyrie/Levert/Dinwddie/KD/Prince

May not work but just throwing out ideas.

The obvious question is then, for who?

Most all the guys we've been discussing are for Dinwiddie or LeVert.


Maybe a simplification of DarkXaero's idea could happen, a Allen for Derrick White swap?
Thinking more about that one, I'd be good with that, would San An though?
Could we pull off something like Allen/Prince/19 for White/Gay?


How about Allen/Prince/Rodi/Musa/19 for Barnes/12?


Can we do business with Toronto?
Allen/Dinwiddie or LeVert/19 for Og Anunoby/Powell?


Orlando?
Ross/15 for Allen/Temple/Musa?


Can't think of many other deals besides variations on these.

[vincecarter4pres]

Lastly, I don't necessarily see OKC doing this, but...

Lu Dort/Steven Adams for Allen/Claxton/Prince/Temple

[Hello Brooklyn]

Yeah I'd be fine keeping Dinwiddie.

I disagree on Allen though, to me he isn't expendable unless the wing you're bringing back is a primo 3&D guy.
He's exactly the guy you want out there with a 2 guard/2 wing/1 big man lineup. And even if DJ can keep up his high level play, he doesn't play 48 minutes a night, nor 82 games a year. Yes he and Allen duplicate a lot of things, but it's not like you're running them out there together and Allen is a lot more mobile on defense. You have a DJ/Allen combo, then you do have 48 minutes of great play out of the 5 spot where you just put them out there with any combination of guards and wings all the time.

Unless you tell me you're getting one of the best 3&D wings out there for Allen, and somehow landing Ibaka or Favors, or someone like that, I don't like the idea of dealing him just for the sake of.



On topic, but off, we were discussing Covington the other night and I got to say, I hadn't seen him play a lot since he was traded from Philly a couple years ago, but I was definitely underrating him. His man on man D on fast guards isn't great, but as a team and help defender, and man defending 3's and 4's, even some 5, he is a beast. And his shot is nice and his IQ is above average. He really is pretty much the perfect 3&D player within reason, if we're not talking supercharged guys like Klay and Paul George. He can finish, run the break, moves without the ball, has enough handle to get by and is a decent passer.

I wouldn't deal him for the sake of. It would have to be for a good 3&D type wing. Not "one of the best" like you're saying, but one who is as talented as he is.

I just don't see us playing both of them a ton in the playoffs. Eventually we will go small like every other team.

I also really don't see us resigning him more so than Dinwiddie. You simply can't tie 20 million + in the Center position. It makes no sense if the modern NBA.

But if no good deal arises, we keep him.

Yeah Covington has been awesome. I agree.

The more I think about this team, the more I'm hoping Nash can transform us into modern teams like the Cs or Rockets.

I would love to experiment with 3 guard lineups like Kyrie/Dinwiddie/Levert.

Maybe if Prince re-commits to defense we can think about playing him at the 5 for certain fast paced lineups.

Kyrie/Levert/Dinwddie/KD/Prince

May not work but just throwing out ideas.

The obvious question is then, for who?

Most all the guys we've been discussing are for Dinwiddie or LeVert.


Maybe a simplification of DarkXaero's idea could happen, a Allen for Derrick White swap?
Thinking more about that one, I'd be good with that, would San An though?
Could we pull off something like Allen/Prince/19 for White/Gay?


How about Allen/Prince/Rodi/Musa/19 for Barnes/12?


Can we do business with Toronto?
Allen/Dinwiddie or LeVert/19 for Og Anunoby/Powell?


Orlando?
Ross/15 for Allen/Temple/Musa?


Can't think of many other deals besides variations on these.

Derrick White is not a bad idea. Makes sense for SA too if they are looking to move on from Aldridge.

Barnes I'm less excited about with that contract.

I would love that Toronto swap, but they would never do it.

Orlando deal I actually like a lot. Terrence Ross is kind of perfect. But does it make sense for them? I'm not so sure.

How about Buddy Hield? Is Allen/Musa/1st enough to get it done?

I think he is the exact type of player we need.

Another thought would be Kelly Oubre Jr. Would Phoenix do him for Allen straight up?

Larry Nance Jr? Would they taken a flyer on him for Allen + fillers?

[Hello Brooklyn]

Lastly, I don't necessarily see OKC doing this, but...

Lu Dort/Steven Adams for Allen/Claxton/Prince/Temple

No way are they trading Dort

[ecuhus1981]

Still think the most movable piece is Allen, since we really don't need him. Especially with the NBA getting smaller every year.

I don't mind moving Jarrett in the right deal, but I think he's better suited to today's NBA than most centers. Defensively, Allen can switch screens and decently guard on the perimeter, yet he has the length and timing to alter shots at the rim. All of this, AND his foul rate is low for a bigman, so his production and impact are scalable (as we saw in the bubble).

This offseason, in order to make the leap from promising project to indispensable, he needs to:

-- add a mean streak. We see the stars who have made a difference this postseason, and the ones who are watching the action on TV like you and I. The difference has been teams that have players with a chip on their shoulder. I refuse to believe this is a baked-in trait that you either have or don't. Guys like Gobert and Giannis came into the league as timid, low-ceiling physical marvels like Jarrett; having the audacity to assert themselves aggressively has made all the difference in their games. He needs to do the same.

-- add lower body strength. He gets uprooted too easily. His instincts to establish inside position are solid, but I've noticed that even when he does, opponents push him around and discard him for rebounds and loose balls. An increase as little as 5lbs of lean muscle in his lower kinetic chain could cancel all of that, and make him a 50/50 magnet.

-- add a go-to shot at all 3 levels. Jarrett is no alpha. I'm not trying to turn him into Hakeem, or Dirk. Too often, JA will catch the ball outside of 4 feet from the basket, and opposing teams clearly do not play him for the drive or the shot. His triple-threat is limited to one option (pass), which is part of why so many of his passes are either retreating passes, or get intercepted. I don't think Jarrett will ever face-up and blow by guys off the dribble, but with practice, he can be a stand-still shooter in the mold of Jonas Valanciunas or Gorgui Dieng. Those guys came into the league more limited offensively than Allen, and adding mid-range and the hint of a 3-point stroke made them harder to scout. This not only would improve Jarrett himself, but keep defenses from overloading his teammates.

[Paradise]

Caris LeVert

for

7th overall pick
Tony Snell

Who says no?

We all do lol

That’s absolutely highway robbery for Detroit. This draft sucks. You can’t trade LeVert for anything less than Top 5.

[MrDollarBills]

these trade ideas are pretty...how should I say it...

[GTR11]

Caris LeVert

for

7th overall pick
Tony Snell

Who says no?

We all do lol

That’s absolutely highway robbery for Detroit. This draft sucks. You can’t trade LeVert for anything less than Top 5.

Draft picks right now has least value than ever. Not trading Caris for top five pick either. We in a win now mode. How exactly that pick helping us?

[DarkXaero]

Let's discuss another set of circumstances, because this other stuff is getting beaten to death and has become stale.

The Nets decide to keep both Caris and Dinwiddie.

It's draft day and they're determined to make a move. Whether it's to move up in the draft, or to acquire an established player, they've said all the spare parts, all the prospects and all the draft picks are on the table, including future ones, with varying degrees of protection on those depending on return, and Allen is available, but only in a deal where it makes immense sense on court AND the value is proper, subjectively and objectively speaking.

The off the table players are:

KD
Kyrie
LeVert
Dinwiddie
DeAndre Jordan


The sort of off the table player is:

Allen


The totally in play assets are:

19th pick
All future picks
Claxton
Rodi
Musa


The salary filler:

Temple
Prince


What do you have?

Possible targets (PF options only):
Maxi Kleber
Dwight Powell
Larry Nance Jr.
Rudy Gay (imo a buyout candidate midseason anyway)
Thad Young
Lauri Markannen
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Justise Winslow
Nemanja Bjelica
Aaron Gordon
James Johnson
Georges Niang
PJ Washington

+

Possible S&Ts?:
Danilo Gallinari
Davis Bertans

Some of those trade options are highly unlikely (like PJ Washington), but I decided to include them anyway. I really like Bjelica, and Nance Jr. as realistic trade targets. Aaron Gordon is probably difficult to get now because Isaac is out for the whole year, and Magic lack PF options. Oubre Jr, as stated previously, imo, he'd be a solid PF option, if we're trading Prince + assets. Kleber, and Powell are also solid, but probably difficult to acquire as they're signed on friendly deals, and Mavs likely looking to preserve cap space. I think basically all the names listed above are possible (with what you listed), with the exception of PJ Washington perhaps.

I think S&Ts are highly unlikely for us, assuming that Marks will avoid the team from getting hard capped, but I think Gallo can make a lot of sense for us in a S&T. Offensively, he's a really good fit on this team with his shooting and high IQ, and defensively, he's not a great defender by any means, but he's solid and uses his length well. Bertans would be an even better fit offensively, but he's not as good as Gallo defensively, and Wizards have prioritized re-signing him.

[DarkXaero]

these trade ideas are pretty...how should I say it...

Say it.

[DarkXaero]

I have a couple trade ideas that I want to share. Not necessarily moves that I fully endorse but I think a direction that can work for us.




Follow up trade:



Rotation:

Kyrie/Dinwiddie/Chiozza
White/Tyler Johnson/Temple
KD/Harris/Crawford
Oubre/Kurucs/TLC
DJ/Dedmon/Claxton

+ #10 pick + tax payer MLE still available


I think the most contentious part of the trade is Suns throwing in the #10 pick, but my reasoning is that Levert has higher value than Oubre Jr currently, and Levert has 3 years left on his deal while Oubre Jr is an expiring. If needed, Kurucs and/or the 2nd round pick from Spurs can be throw in as sweetener. It is a really weak draft class, and I think for this draft, teams are more willing than ever to part with lotto picks. Oubre Jr gives us a 6'8" tweener forward option with 3pt shooting, and capable of solid defense (not consistent though).

The Allen for Derrick White trade is more than fair value for Spurs, and if anything, a better deal for Spurs imo, with Allen being 4 years younger, and the same caliber player. Their contract situations are identical too, with White also in his last year of rookie deal. White fits perfectly next to Kyrie as a low usage, efficient 3&D guard. The Hawks trade is a more simple one as I think they get a better/much younger fit in Prince, and Capela should be their starting C anyway (with Collins splitting time at 4 and 5). For us, Dedmon replaces Allen as a backup C here, and could potentially give us a stretch 5 option ("potentially" because he was awful this year). Anyway, just an idea, don't kill me.

I don't hate the on paper value, but I certainly don't love it.

I think you can much more easily and cheaply get Oubre and I like White a lot, but Idk.

I prefer something where we keep Allen, You send out Dinwiddie, Prince, Claxton, the 19 and get back Oubre/Rubio and maybe the 10th. Or maybe forget the 10th, we keep the 19th and throw in the '21 1st, Rodi and multiple 2nd's?

Dedmon looked like a dead man last season as well. Not that you're even sending out a lot of value for him, but he might be completely useless and planted to the bench and you find out the hard way over 30+ games of struggle shop.

Fair enough, I don't love it either, but it's an attempt to deviate from the usual names, while maintaining a balanced lineup. I think you're right that it can be easier to get Oubre Jr., but I wanted to unload one of Levert/Dinwiddie, as we'd be getting Derrick White in the rotation, and I also thought that getting an asset back (#10 pick) is a nice incentive. I don't particularly care about any of the lottery picks in this draft class, but it's worth something.

I don't think there's a way to get White without giving up Allen. They're both essentially in the same contract situation, and the deal makes sense for Spurs as they look ahead to a rebuild (moving on from LMA), and Poetl is backup C material. It's not easy for teams to give up good 3&D players, and White happens to be one of them. I think with Allen likely relegated to a backup C role behind DJ, there is logic to moving on. Maybe Dedmon is not the answer (you're right, he was trash this year), but there are other options available out there.

I also don't see the point of swapping Dinwiddie for Rubio. Rubio is a decent PG, but if you're using him in a backup PG role, you're underutilizing him. If Rubio is going elsewhere in a three team trade, I'd be open to that.

[DarkXaero]

With the total collapse of Milwaukee and the likely breakup of Toronto are we the clear favorites in the East next year?

I like Jimmy Butler and Tatum, but neither of those guys are in the same class as KD. I think we would beat both of those teams.

This is the beginning for this Heat team, they have ambitious plans about adding another legitimate star either through a trade or in FA. Tatum is also an uptrending young star, who has established himself as one of the best players in the East. He'll be better next year. KD is coming off from the worst injury in pro sports in his 30s, there are justifiably huge question marks about what level he can return to.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Still think the most movable piece is Allen, since we really don't need him. Especially with the NBA getting smaller every year.

I don't mind moving Jarrett in the right deal, but I think he's better suited to today's NBA than most centers. Defensively, Allen can switch screens and decently guard on the perimeter, yet he has the length and timing to alter shots at the rim. All of this, AND his foul rate is low for a bigman, so his production and impact are scalable (as we saw in the bubble).

This offseason, in order to make the leap from promising project to indispensable, he needs to:

-- add a mean streak. We see the stars who have made a difference this postseason, and the ones who are watching the action on TV like you and I. The difference has been teams that have players with a chip on their shoulder. I refuse to believe this is a baked-in trait that you either have or don't. Guys like Gobert and Giannis came into the league as timid, low-ceiling physical marvels like Jarrett; having the audacity to assert themselves aggressively has made all the difference in their games. He needs to do the same.

-- add lower body strength. He gets uprooted too easily. His instincts to establish inside position are solid, but I've noticed that even when he does, opponents push him around and discard him for rebounds and loose balls. An increase as little as 5lbs of lean muscle in his lower kinetic chain could cancel all of that, and make him a 50/50 magnet.

-- add a go-to shot at all 3 levels. Jarrett is no alpha. I'm not trying to turn him into Hakeem, or Dirk. Too often, JA will catch the ball outside of 4 feet from the basket, and opposing teams clearly do not play him for the drive or the shot. His triple-threat is limited to one option (pass), which is part of why so many of his passes are either retreating passes, or get intercepted. I don't think Jarrett will ever face-up and blow by guys off the dribble, but with practice, he can be a stand-still shooter in the mold of Jonas Valanciunas or Gorgui Dieng. Those guys came into the league more limited offensively than Allen, and adding mid-range and the hint of a 3-point stroke made them harder to scout. This not only would improve Jarrett himself, but keep defenses from overloading his teammates.

Allen is suited better than most Centers. But the NBA is moving away from traditional Centers anyway.

Look at how Golden State plays. How Boston, Houston and LAC play.

Once the playoffs come, you don't need 40 minutes+ of a traditional center.

We are forced to have Jordan who can play well enough. We are not going to need Allen as well.

And next off season I don't see the wisdom of paying Allen. I think it makes little sense to have 20 mill+ invest in the C position.

Boston/LAC/GS basically play with mediocre Centers. Houston doesn't even have one on the roster. This is the way the league is moving.

We need to get equal value back. But Steve Nash understands the modern NBA better than anyone.

I think we need more help on the wing.

[Claud]

Still hasn't fully sunk in that Steve effing Nash will be our coach... WTF?!

I'm honestly more excited for a fresh face than some recycled coach. I was genuinely only excited for Pop but the rest were meh.

Curious to see what type of philosophy coach Nash will implement and how it compares to our offensive/defensive principles of the last few seasons. I think having a close relationship with KD and Marks should be a great starting point for him, not to mention he's an NBA legend which should command respect of our star players.

Marks hardly ever disapoints. This was way out of left field. Excited for next season.

I think we have a legit shot at a chip with some luck + health going our way for once.