vincecarter4pres wrote:CalamityX12 wrote:How high of a ceiling do some view on Gordon?
RHJ learned/learning to make his jumpshots, showed great progress in that area compared to where he started.
The 3pt shot will come, he showed when he puts the work, he has grown.
I've seen more in RHJ to believe in him than Gordon. Keep RHJ(unless for Klay or superstar level).
Yeah, if Marks trades RHJ it has to be something where a young cornerstone player is brought back or a pick high enough/prospect legitimate enough to have near franchise potential.
There's nothing wrong with RHJ. He's a really solid young player who absolutely still has remaining ceiling. A high ceiling. He is flawed, he has nagging injury concerns and he'll be due for a big payday soon, but there is zero wrong with him here for the long haul.
It's an understandable concept to dislike players who can't shoot, but it's not like we're talking MKG here. And although undersized, he can obviously defend at a high level.
There's a lot more that I'd like to contribute to this topic but I gotta jet out for a bit.
A couple of comments and a question:
1) The impact of man-to-man defenders in this eraIMO, the increased pace, spacing, 3PAs, and number of total possessions in games has devalued the importance of having good-to-great wing defenders.
Every team is slowly moving towards the Rockets model of 3s, layups, and no mid-range shot attempts. That philosophy eliminates a lot of the midrange ball activity that we used to see for so many years. Therefore, RHJ's ability to defend ISOs in the 15ft-23ft no longer leaves the kind of impact on the overall game that it would have had he played 5 years ago.
So much of the game's action being generated beyond the arc now either via shot attempts or high screens, just having a player who is willing to go over screens and challenge shot attempts is important.
If you're not playing at the 3pt line, you're dumping it down low to your bigs who can do work quickly. The teams who do play more in the interior usually have a big man who due to their size usually overpower all of our guys including RHJ. We've been getting killed by non-star big men just because the difference in height and weight between them and us is too great for the Nets to overcome. In the paint, every inch and pound makes a difference; becoming taller and bigger at the 4 spot (while maintaining athleticism) would go a long in slowing down the abuse down low.
Gordon's a bit taller, bigger, and stronger. I think he'd give us more resistance down low than RHJ would.
2) Your assessment of RHJ's and Gordon's potentialWhen you say he has a "high ceiling" what do you mean by that? Are you saying he has superstar, allstar, 3rd option on championship team potential? What's "high"?
Also, what do you think Gordon's ceiling is? Whose ceiling is higher in your opinion?
3) My take on Aaron Gordon's potentialI rate RHJ and Gordon roughly the same.
RHJ is definitely a better defender, but as I stated above, I think on-ball defense isn't as important as it used to be.
IMO Gordon's offensive versatility with the ball is better than RHJ's. He's more of a natural ballhandler and scorer.
RHJ is assisted on 54.2% of his 2pt FGs and 100% of his 3pt FGs, while Gordon is assisted 47.8% and 82.3% of his 3s.
One can argue whether Gordon is the #1 option on the Magic, but he's clearly higher on the totem pole for his team compared to RHJ. The former averages the most field attempts on his team (albeit by a 0.1 margin), while the latter is tied for 3rd with Dinwiddie.
Every great team has players who can create offense for themselves. While an offensive system like the Spurs, Warriors, Nets, and others benefits off-the-ball players, there's still nothing like having one who can generate offense on his own on solid efficiency when the system (or the system players) can't.
It was only last year that RHJ's FG% percentages outside of the immediate vicinity of the basket were bad.
3-10ft 29.6%
10-16ft 34.7%
16-23ft 30.8%
3pt 22.4%
48.3% of all of his attempts came in the 0-3ft range (51.7% 3ft or greater). In other words, he was a layup, dunk, or nothing guy.
In one offseason, only 36.2% of his shots come in the 0-3ft range. His percentages outside of the dunk/layup area are much improved:
3-10ft 39.9%
10-16ft 51.4%
16-23ft 45.7%
3pt 27.9%
I want to be fair to RHJ and credit his work ethic. At the same time, we obviously have to give some (a lot of)? credit to the Nets staff for helping him to develop his game. He's shooting better from everywhere on a much higher number of FGAs.
Gordon currently sits at these shooting percentages:
3-10ft 30.9%
10-16ft 37.3%
16-23ft 33.3%
3pt 34.6%
Last year, 39.1% of RHJ's shot attempts were from 3ft and 23ft. This year, 55.3% of his attempts are from this range.
This year, 33.5% of Gordon's shot attempts are from 3ft and 23ft.
Can the Nets help Gordon make similar improvements in Gordon's game as they did to RHJ?
Gordon is already a capable 3pt shooter on high volume. If Gordon improved his 3ft to 23ft shooting game, he'd be an offensive star.
The two questions are 1) whether he can do it? 2) how much will it cost to sign him?
If RHJ and Gordon were signed to similar deals, I'd prefer Gordon because I prefer his size and believe in his greater offensive potential.
But if Gordon is seeking to get paid 2x as much as RHJ, I'd rather keep RHJ.
