Harden-watch 2020

[MGrand15]

I'm losing hope in this happening. If it doesn't happen by draft night, i feel like we don't have a shot. Our offer can't change lol.

Houston going into training camp hoping to trade him early in the season is a mistake. Contenders aren't going to sit around and wait for Harden. His value is at a high right now. Draft picks are unused and not traded yet. Off-season hasn't started. He hasn't really caused any trouble yet.

[3pt_chucker]

While I would want Harden here,I really don't think we should trade all our assets for him considering that KD and Kyrie are both injury risks. There is a strong possibility this goes sideways and we should def keep our long term stability. We already have a very good roster, so making smart moves not desperate/mortgaging ones is the right/smart thing to do.

Bradley Beal will def be an option, history shows other great players will be disgruntled and want to be traded. No need to lock in an make a enormous Harden trade, especially with an unfriendly trade market(Thanks OKC and New Orleans smh)

Doesn't the injury risk of Kyrie and KD make the opposite argument actually? It emphasizes the importance of a 3rd star as insurance, especially someone like Harden who is an MVP candidate type player on his own.

Except that we will be depleting your depth, we won't be that great if KD/Kyrie goes down. Rather keep depth and flexibility.

[StepBackCrack]

I'm losing hope in this happening. If it doesn't happen by draft night, i feel like we don't have a shot. Our offer can't change lol.

Houston going into training camp hoping to trade him early in the season is a mistake. Contenders aren't going to sit around and wait for Harden. His value is at a high right now. Draft picks are unused and not traded yet. Off-season hasn't started. He hasn't really caused any trouble yet.

Totally agree with this. Rockets thinking they are so smart but dragging this to the season will only lessens Harden's value and their season will be a huge mess with a pissed-off Harden.

Btw, can the Nets trade for a young tar and use that star to get Harden? Not sure it's a good idea tho.

[Papi_swav]

Likely that Houston is trying to start a bidding war for Harden before pulling the trigger on a Harden trade with us. It's true, it's a relatively weak package for a player of Harden's caliber, and all it takes is for Ainge or Morey to offer Brown or Simmons with some picks and it's a wrap for us, since those two are much better than anyone we can offer.

But the fact that nothing like that is even being reported and the fact that the only reports indicate that Houston is leaning towards a deal with us tells me that those players are not on the table as of right now. And maybe those options have already been explored and turned down.

Harden said he wants Brooklyn and only Brooklyn. Those other teams know it will only be a one year rental or maybe less before he wants out. It could get ugly. Teams wouldn't want to give up a bunch of assets for just one year. Kind of Like the Kyrie Irving situation in Boston. And you know those Boston ppl are still salty about that one.

[StepBackCrack]

I also feel that it's very likely that Harden will force his way to the Nets in a year. These other teams will be taking a huge risk going for him imo. This depends on how bad Harden wants the Nets obviously and I feel he really really wants only the Nets. This really is the main thing that is going for the Nets in this Harden Saga because they don't have the young star to trade unfortunately.

[oldshoolballer]

The Celtics jumping in might have screwed everything up. Now the Rockets are trying to play hard ball. This could get ugly.

[DarkXaero]

While I would want Harden here,I really don't think we should trade all our assets for him considering that KD and Kyrie are both injury risks. There is a strong possibility this goes sideways and we should def keep our long term stability. We already have a very good roster, so making smart moves not desperate/mortgaging ones is the right/smart thing to do.

Bradley Beal will def be an option, history shows other great players will be disgruntled and want to be traded. No need to lock in an make a enormous Harden trade, especially with an unfriendly trade market(Thanks OKC and New Orleans smh)

Doesn't the injury risk of Kyrie and KD make the opposite argument actually? It emphasizes the importance of a 3rd star as insurance, especially someone like Harden who is an MVP candidate type player on his own.

Except that we will be depleting your depth, we won't be that great if KD/Kyrie goes down. Rather keep depth and flexibility.

Depth is overrated and easy to figure out if we have Harden. Kyrie/Harden/Harris/KD/DJ + Bruce Brown is a very nice start anyway. We'd still have the tax payer MLE, the ability to re-sign Tyler Johnson, and make shrewd veteran signings, in addition to whatever bench pieces are left post-Harden trade.

[DarkXaero]

The Celtics jumping in might have screwed everything up. Now the Rockets are trying to play hard ball. This could get ugly.

Celtics didn't jump in, it was sources with no credibility reporting it, and then it was refuted by a Boston reporter.

[DarkXaero]

I'll say one thing, this is likely not going to happen as quickly as we want it to (if it happens). We're not going to play all our cards right away, and we're seeing posturing from Houston in the media right now. Houston basically used ESPN as PR tonight, and showed their leverage for posturing purposes. Meanwhile, our FO doesn't do deliberate leaks so we're not seeing stories from our end. Bobby Marks said on a podcast today that Sean Marks is not going to offer everything at once, he'll play this out. And that's a natural part of negotiations such as these, no one is going to say right away that "here, we'll give you whatever you want". Here's what Bobby Marks had to say on this:

“I don’t know if there’s that much of an appetite where you’re Brooklyn and you’re basically telling Houston, ‘Pick what you want on our roster and our draft picks,’ ” ex-Nets assistant GM and current ESPN analyst Bobby Marks said on Sportsnet 590 The FAN. “I don’t think there’s an appetite for that where you’re giving up Spencer Dinwiddie, Jarrett Allen and Caris LeVert and basically say hey if you want 2022, ’24, ’26 pick swaps and all that stuff.

“I don’t think we’re there, and I don’t think the Nets will ever be there. Knowing [GM] Sean Marks’ DNA, he’s a high-risk player, but not to that extent. So now it’s a matter of who blinks first. Would that package get shrunk a little bit as far as from a picks standpoint? So I don’t think we’re [where] this is imminent here. I think this is kind of in a waiting game where each team will probably wait each other out.”

Bobby Marks has experience in monster deals before, having been part of the Nets’ trade with Boston that brought back Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce, and he — like most around the league — don’t think the Nets GM will be rash in gutting his team for Harden.

[Prokorov]

While I would want Harden here,I really don't think we should trade all our assets for him considering that KD and Kyrie are both injury risks. There is a strong possibility this goes sideways and we should def keep our long term stability. We already have a very good roster, so making smart moves not desperate/mortgaging ones is the right/smart thing to do.

Bradley Beal will def be an option, history shows other great players will be disgruntled and want to be traded. No need to lock in an make a enormous Harden trade, especially with an unfriendly trade market(Thanks OKC and New Orleans smh)

Doesn't the injury risk of Kyrie and KD make the opposite argument actually? It emphasizes the importance of a 3rd star as insurance, especially someone like Harden who is an MVP candidate type player on his own.

Except that we will be depleting your depth, we won't be that great if KD/Kyrie goes down. Rather keep depth and flexibility.

Harden + 4 D-leaguers >>>> Dinwiddie/levert/prince/allen

[therealbig3]

Yeah, I think more and more that Pooch jumped the gun, and this isn't anywhere close to happening.

I have no hard feelings towards Houston at all, they're doing what they think is best for their team, can't blame them. Harden doesn't want to be there, but they have him signed for another 2 years. His value might not go up, but it's still likely he'll command a monster trade package regardless of when he gets dealt. Doing it now rather than later would mainly be to get started on their rebuild sooner rather than later, and if there's any good will on their end towards Harden for what he's given them and accommodating his request.

Also, we shouldn't get too invested in getting Harden as if we're doomed if we don't get him. It started off as a pipe dream that's now closer to reality than we initially thought. But without Harden, we still have two of the premier stars in the league and a deep, talented roster. We can go in a million different directions if the Harden plan falls through. Obviously we have to go for it if we can get him, but if we don't, we still have plenty of options.

[Prokorov]

I'll say one thing, this is likely not going to happen as quickly as we want it to (if it happens). We're not going to play all our cards right away, and we're seeing posturing from Houston in the media right now. Houston basically used ESPN as PR tonight, and showed their leverage for posturing purposes. Meanwhile, our FO doesn't do deliberate leaks so we're not seeing stories from our end. Bobby Marks said on a podcast today that Sean Marks is not going to offer everything at once, he'll play this out. And that's a natural part of negotiations such as these, no one is going to say right away that "here, we'll give you whatever you want". Here's what Bobby Marks had to say on this:

“I don’t know if there’s that much of an appetite where you’re Brooklyn and you’re basically telling Houston, ‘Pick what you want on our roster and our draft picks,’ ” ex-Nets assistant GM and current ESPN analyst Bobby Marks said on Sportsnet 590 The FAN. “I don’t think there’s an appetite for that where you’re giving up Spencer Dinwiddie, Jarrett Allen and Caris LeVert and basically say hey if you want 2022, ’24, ’26 pick swaps and all that stuff.

“I don’t think we’re there, and I don’t think the Nets will ever be there. Knowing [GM] Sean Marks’ DNA, he’s a high-risk player, but not to that extent. So now it’s a matter of who blinks first. Would that package get shrunk a little bit as far as from a picks standpoint? So I don’t think we’re [where] this is imminent here. I think this is kind of in a waiting game where each team will probably wait each other out.”

Bobby Marks has experience in monster deals before, having been part of the Nets’ trade with Boston that brought back Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce, and he — like most around the league — don’t think the Nets GM will be rash in gutting his team for Harden.

I tend to think otherwise. i think its insulting to offer anything less then spencer/levert/allen + 5 picks. i think even that is highway robbery for harden. i think its out there. i think houston knows it. its just a matter of them doing it, which isnt easy. harden is a top 3-5 player in prime. hard to pull a trigger on him for anyone nto named lebron or giannis

[Prokorov]

Yeah, I think more and more that Pooch jumped the gun, and this isn't anywhere close to happening.

I have no hard feelings towards Houston at all, they're doing what they think is best for their team, can't blame them. Harden doesn't want to be there, but they have him signed for another 2 years. His value might not go up, but it's still likely he'll command a monster trade package regardless of when he gets dealt. Doing it now rather than later would mainly be to get started on their rebuild sooner rather than later, and if there's any good will on their end towards Harden for what he's given them and accommodating his request.

Also, we shouldn't get too invested in getting Harden as if we're doomed if we don't get him. It started off as a pipe dream that's now closer to reality than we initially thought. But without Harden, we still have two of the premier stars in the league and a deep, talented roster. We can go in a million different directions if the Harden plan falls through. Obviously we have to go for it if we can get him, but if we don't, we still have plenty of options.

We are obviously fine without harden. but we arent clear favorites. we still need to make moves. one of levert/dinwiddie has to go. and we need to bring in defenders

[Papi_swav]

I guess it's Harden or nothing but FA at this point, which isn't bad at all. Jrue was the guy many of us wanted but he's gone and from the looks of it Beal is staying put. So who else is left to go after other than Harden? I'm good on Oladipo, Blake Griffin and Kevin Love. Aaron Gordon I guess.

[therealbig3]

Our offer only looks better as time goes on though, because with less and less time on his contract, Harden's ability to dictate where he goes gets a lot stronger. If he tells teams that he's leaving them for nothing in free agency unless he goes to the Nets, that's going to really prevent other teams from beating the Nets offer. It's going to end up being that we have the best offer standing, because we're the only ones willing to give up anything of legit value for him the longer this goes on. And even if he gets traded elsewhere...again, we can still trade for him eventually, if he tells that new team he's leaving in free agency unless they trade him here.

So yeah, we may not get him for this year, but typically, if stars want to go somewhere, they'll end up there.

[StepBackCrack]

Beal staying put for what exactly? WASH will be trash. Does he value winning?

[StepBackCrack]

If Harden's desire to join the Nets is so big as reported, BOS and Sixers will be so stupid taking the bait from the Rockets and giving them a young star + picks in return. Harden ultimately will end up where he wants in a year. Rockets are just delaying it a year max. That's all. It still sucks obviously but I will try to get over this now and move on. Let's wait and see.

[NyCeEvO]

Our offer only looks better as time goes on though, because with less and less time on his contract, Harden's ability to dictate where he goes gets a lot stronger. If he tells teams that he's leaving them for nothing in free agency unless he goes to the Nets, that's going to really prevent other teams from beating the Nets offer. It's going to end up being that we have the best offer standing, because we're the only ones willing to give up anything of legit value for him the longer this goes on. And even if he gets traded elsewhere...again, we can still trade for him eventually, if he tells that new team he's leaving in free agency unless they trade him here.

So yeah, we may not get him for this year, but typically, if stars want to go somewhere, they'll end up there.

Dinwiddie is an expiring contract. If the Nets don't trade him this season, they'll most undoubtedly lose him as an asset because I don't expect him to re-sign.

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[therealbig3]

Our offer only looks better as time goes on though, because with less and less time on his contract, Harden's ability to dictate where he goes gets a lot stronger. If he tells teams that he's leaving them for nothing in free agency unless he goes to the Nets, that's going to really prevent other teams from beating the Nets offer. It's going to end up being that we have the best offer standing, because we're the only ones willing to give up anything of legit value for him the longer this goes on. And even if he gets traded elsewhere...again, we can still trade for him eventually, if he tells that new team he's leaving in free agency unless they trade him here.

So yeah, we may not get him for this year, but typically, if stars want to go somewhere, they'll end up there.

Dinwiddie is an expiring contract. If the Nets don't trade him this season, they'll most undoubtedly lose him as an asset because I don't expect him to re-sign.

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We can maneuver things where we can trade Dinwiddie for a pick and a player making comparable money to a team that wants cap relief at the deadline. It's really not that big of a deal to hold onto Dinwiddie for now. That's basically what he is at this point to any team willing to trade for him: cap relief.

I don't see it as a big deal to hold onto our assets if Houston wants to wait longer, and move Dinwiddie in a separate deal. We can still rework things to make it work salary-wise. If we re-sign Joe Harris, he can be included instead of Dinwiddie at that point. As long as Kyrie and KD are still on the team post-trade, it doesn't matter, everyone else is expendable.

[therealbig3]

BTW Woj also said earlier today on one of those ESPN shows that there's no trade imminent as of right now, and that there have only been preliminary talks, nothing of real substance yet, and that Houston is in no rush to trade right now, and still feel like they can repair the relationship, especially since they have 2 years to work with here.

Wonder if Pooch has made any sort of follow up statement, since it's looking more and more likely that he dropped the ball here by announcing that the deal was basically done. More reports are coming out saying that Harden is likely staying with the team through training camp at least.