2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Karate Diop]

Last year the Nets took the 4th most three-pointers in the league but had the 5th worst efficiency... I'm really looking forward to having guys who can hit the three on the roster this year.

[kamaze]

Nets signed Doyle and Senglin to training camp deals.

Good signings Doyle especially played good.

[Paradise]

Rondae will be playing tomorrow.

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[ChokeFasncists]

We were going to give Reddick 26 million to come off the bench even after the DLo trade. Reddick himself confirmed his salary wouldn't of guaranteed playing time (thus he didn't sign)

Crabbe's contract isn't going to dictate his playing time. There is no counter argument.

That might be true but those two are in quite different situations.

Redick would be closer to a Foye/Scola/Vasquez but a much better player. Whereas Crab was supposed to be underutilized by the Blazers and now would be paid big to have an expanded role on a worse team. It wouldn't make a whole lotta sense to have him still come off the bench. He was dubbed one of the worst contract in the league, if he still averages 10ppg, Marks would look real bad and he probably regrets waiving the trade kicker.

[ChokeFasncists]

Russell isn't going to be coming off of the bench. He's the most talented player on the squad...this idea that he's some scrub is beyond wild on here.

Well, one of Crab, LVJ and DRuss will come off the bench, I don't think any of them is a scrub

[ChokeFasncists]

Russells potential role changed the second we added crabbe... crabbe has to start. Last year marks/kenny had more freedom... all the young guys were low salary. now, Crabbe is 25 and our highest paid player.... this is the first time there will really be any urgency/pressure to develop someone... and you can tell by their quotes:

"There is a limit to how much dead money you can take," Sean Marks said. "You end up with a roster of 21-year-olds and dead salary."

"We need to show progress," Kenny Atkinson said, "out of respect for ownership."

"If you sign the wrong guy to $15 million or $20 million," Marks said before the Crabbe deal, "they might become untradeable."

They know they need to develop crabbe big time... that if crabbe doesnt pan out it could be a tough situation that looks really bad.

not saying they throw everything out the window... but there is no way crabbe sits or doesnt lead us in minutes. it is imperative that he develop into a fringe all-star.

Russell obviously plays a huge role as well. but at 22 and with lin still here he can come off the bench in a 28 minute role for a season. Crabbe turns 26 this season and makes 19 million and will be the most under the radar player from ownership/fans/media all year

Agreed. Crab obviously went from a better team to a worse team to have a bigger role. DRuss could be understood to have gone from a worse team to a better team to gain more proper development and winning experience.

If Crab is most likely gonna start, that could mean it's gonna be a training camp battle between DRuss and LVJ. Kenny's gotta figure out the fits, strategies, best lineups etc. of course.

DRuss's idol is Manu, it just might be his thing.

[Ror1997]

We were going to give Reddick 26 million to come off the bench even after the DLo trade. Reddick himself confirmed his salary wouldn't of guaranteed playing time (thus he didn't sign)

Crabbe's contract isn't going to dictate his playing time. There is no counter argument.

That might be true but those two are in quite different situations.

Redick would be closer to a Foye/Scola/Vasquez but a much better player. Whereas Crab was supposed to be underutilized by the Blazers and now would be paid big to have an expanded role on a worse team. It wouldn't make a whole lotta sense to have him still come off the bench. He was dubbed one of the worst contract in the league, if he still averages 10ppg, Marks would look real bad and he probably regrets waiving the trade kicker.

.

No, its not a different situation. Crabbe is filling the exact same role Reddick would've. Reddick wasn't a Foye/Scola/Vasquez move. You don't give a guy 26M for veteran leadership. We wanted Reddick for his 3Pt shooting.

You can utilize a player better while still having him come off the bench. The Blazers didn't let crabbe do anything but shoot 3's. If you let him do more then just shoot 3's, and he proves himself to be a good scorer, than we already utilized him better than Portland.

[MrDollarBills]

Russells potential role changed the second we added crabbe... crabbe has to start. Last year marks/kenny had more freedom... all the young guys were low salary. now, Crabbe is 25 and our highest paid player.... this is the first time there will really be any urgency/pressure to develop someone... and you can tell by their quotes:

"There is a limit to how much dead money you can take," Sean Marks said. "You end up with a roster of 21-year-olds and dead salary."

"We need to show progress," Kenny Atkinson said, "out of respect for ownership."

"If you sign the wrong guy to $15 million or $20 million," Marks said before the Crabbe deal, "they might become untradeable."

They know they need to develop crabbe big time... that if crabbe doesnt pan out it could be a tough situation that looks really bad.

not saying they throw everything out the window... but there is no way crabbe sits or doesnt lead us in minutes. it is imperative that he develop into a fringe all-star.

Russell obviously plays a huge role as well. but at 22 and with lin still here he can come off the bench in a 28 minute role for a season. Crabbe turns 26 this season and makes 19 million and will be the most under the radar player from ownership/fans/media all year

Agreed. Crab obviously went from a better team to a worse team to have a bigger role. DRuss could be understood to have gone from a worse team to a better team to gain more proper development and winning experience.

If Crab is most likely gonna start, that could mean it's gonna be a training camp battle between DRuss and LVJ. Kenny's gotta figure out the fits, strategies, best lineups etc. of course.

DRuss's idol is Manu, it just might be his thing.

Russell is not coming off of the bench. He is literally the franchise player of this team. We just traded Brook Lopez for this kid, do you seriously think that was done so that he can play back up?

[MrDollarBills]

Russell isn't going to be coming off of the bench. He's the most talented player on the squad...this idea that he's some scrub is beyond wild on here.

Well, one of Crab, LVJ and DRuss will come off the bench, I don't think any of them is a scrub

Russell is better than both Crabbe and LeVert. He is a 15 4 and 5 player at age 21. I'll wager if Crabbe is out there getting cooked defensively he'll be the one getting moved to a bench role first.

The Nets are not going to bring their primary offensive option and top overall talent off of the bench. That makes no sense basketball wise, or business wise since Russell is primed to be a star in this market.

[Ror1997]

"21 year old coming off a 15/5 season. Straight to the bench."

Its just funny after a while. People are always looking so hard for something to be negative about, and always trying to meet an agenda, that they can't see what's right infront of them.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm going to disagree that Crabbe doesnt change things... i posed the question last week asking if this would in fact change things and i think the comments from marks/kenny since the presser from the trade kind of confirm that. they know the investment in this guy and know there is pressure to improve him...

now i dont think that means russell sits, i think it means 1 less spot open for him. i dont see any scenario were crabbe sits unless he got injured (knock on wood).

i think russell would need to start over levert or lin... i also don think they do something drastic to hinder his development... i think he certainly sees 28 minutes either way and closes games. But Crabbe i think starts and leads us in minutes

I agree with you about the investment cost and the pressure to make this guy develop into the level of player that he's being paid at. But, I think Crabbe changes things more for LeVert than anything. We had him pegged at SF. Crabbe is announced to be new SF.

So in theory:

Lin, Russell, Crabbe, RHJ, Mozgov starts. Lin takes the tougher backcourt match up defensively (unless Russell can prove he can defend/play good team D). Crabbe is going to find himself in trouble in a few match ups and he might have to switch on defense with RHJ. Crabbe imo needs to be pushed to defend his position. He's got length...I think he needs to embrace the challenge. Not worried at all about Mozgov.

LeVert will play time and the second ball handler in the backcourt (SG) and time at SF. Carroll plays time at back up SF and stretch 4. Probably toss Whitehead in at combo guard.

Minutes wise, the person who probably is going to get stunted is Whitehead. But then again, I can see Kenny running a Dinwiddie/Whitehead/LeVert/Carroll/Booker small ball 2nd unit that switches on everything and keeps the offensive continuity going with Dinwiddie, LeVert, Whitehead, and Carroll all capable of hitting threes (whitehead/levert obv needs to improve their 3pt %'s but I think that won't be an impossible task in year 2).

This doesn't take into account Kilpatrick, Harris, Acy, Allen, or the idea that the Nets are still looking to acquire a frontcourt player.

I think our development priorities go:
1. Dlo
2. Caris
3. Allen and Crabbe
4. RHJ and Whitehead
5. Everybody else

I think Caris comingb off the bench will be awesome for his development. He'll get to be THE guy on our bench squad, all offense will go through him. He would be the 3rd option as a starter, so I think this will be awesome experience for him. Long term he is the 2. Having Dlo and Caris play the 2 and backup 2 now gives them time to develop until they become the starting 1 and 2 in a season on twos time.

Yes. I mean the plan is probably to eventually just have Russell/LeVert in the backcourt (dual ball handler, both of them can pass) in the future.

I'd be curious to see if Kenny is willing to run a small ball line up at times with Lin/Russell/LeVert/Crabbe with either RHJ, Booker, or possibly Allen playing the 5. I think small ball rotations should be used a lot with this roster. Management also hinted that Crabbe will sometimes play at the 4.

[Prokorov]

We were going to give Reddick 26 million to come off the bench even after the DLo trade. Reddick himself confirmed his salary wouldn't of guaranteed playing time (thus he didn't sign)

Crabbe's contract isn't going to dictate his playing time. There is no counter argument.

That might be true but those two are in quite different situations.

Redick would be closer to a Foye/Scola/Vasquez but a much better player. Whereas Crab was supposed to be underutilized by the Blazers and now would be paid big to have an expanded role on a worse team. It wouldn't make a whole lotta sense to have him still come off the bench. He was dubbed one of the worst contract in the league, if he still averages 10ppg, Marks would look real bad and he probably regrets waiving the trade kicker.

.

No, its not a different situation. Crabbe is filling the exact same role Reddick would've. Reddick wasn't a Foye/Scola/Vasquez move. You don't give a guy 26M for veteran leadership. We wanted Reddick for his 3Pt shooting.

You can utilize a player better while still having him come off the bench. The Blazers didn't let crabbe do anything but shoot 3's. If you let him do more then just shoot 3's, and he proves himself to be a good scorer, than we already utilized him better than Portland.

its not 2 different roles its 2 different circumstances. Reddick would have been brought in as a veteran to help grow the offense. one of the few guys who is elite shooting threes off the dribble and off screens. that really is a huge spacing asset. only 1 or 2 guys create space like reddick (really only curry, klay, and korver). Crabbe doesnt have that gravity, since he is only really a catch and shoot threat and he is easily run off the line. dont get me wrong, he is a catch and shoot threat but he isnt being double teamed off the ball like reddick in screen situations.

Crabbe is a three point shooter like Reddick, but he isnt here to grow the offense so much as he is here to be developed into (hopefully) an allstar. they didnt bring crabbe in for what he is now, they brought him in for what they think he can be.

reddick not starting is a non issue. he'd be on the court enough to evolve the offense... where as crabbe needs to start/play a ton/ get the most focus possible to develop

[Prokorov]

Russells potential role changed the second we added crabbe... crabbe has to start. Last year marks/kenny had more freedom... all the young guys were low salary. now, Crabbe is 25 and our highest paid player.... this is the first time there will really be any urgency/pressure to develop someone... and you can tell by their quotes:



They know they need to develop crabbe big time... that if crabbe doesnt pan out it could be a tough situation that looks really bad.

not saying they throw everything out the window... but there is no way crabbe sits or doesnt lead us in minutes. it is imperative that he develop into a fringe all-star.

Russell obviously plays a huge role as well. but at 22 and with lin still here he can come off the bench in a 28 minute role for a season. Crabbe turns 26 this season and makes 19 million and will be the most under the radar player from ownership/fans/media all year

Agreed. Crab obviously went from a better team to a worse team to have a bigger role. DRuss could be understood to have gone from a worse team to a better team to gain more proper development and winning experience.

If Crab is most likely gonna start, that could mean it's gonna be a training camp battle between DRuss and LVJ. Kenny's gotta figure out the fits, strategies, best lineups etc. of course.

DRuss's idol is Manu, it just might be his thing.

Russell is not coming off of the bench. He is literally the franchise player of this team. We just traded Brook Lopez for this kid, do you seriously think that was done so that he can play back up?

i dont think he sits but i wouldnt rule it out... if lin/levert really play great i think there is a chance. no way crabbe sits. especially if the team is sold. marks jobs is now handcuffed to how crabbe turns out

[MrDollarBills]

"21 year old coming off a 15/5 season. Straight to the bench."

Its just funny after a while. People are always looking so hard for something to be negative about, and always trying to meet an agenda, that they can't see what's right infront of them.

It's baffling and makes zero sense.

[Prokorov]

Russell isn't going to be coming off of the bench. He's the most talented player on the squad...this idea that he's some scrub is beyond wild on here.

Well, one of Crab, LVJ and DRuss will come off the bench, I don't think any of them is a scrub

Russell is better than both Crabbe and LeVert. He is a 15 4 and 5 player at age 21. I'll wager if Crabbe is out there getting cooked defensively he'll be the one getting moved to a bench role first.

The Nets are not going to bring their primary offensive option and top overall talent off of the bench. That makes no sense basketball wise, or business wise since Russell is primed to be a star in this market.

its about development, so basketball sense is less of an issue... russell needs development too, but he would see his 28-plus minutes either way. Crabbe is our highest paid guy and at 25 they probably have less time to develop him. Russell they have mroe time with to both develop and before they give him a huge payday

based off kenny and marks comments, you can tell the urgency they have to develop crabbe

[MrDollarBills]

Agreed. Crab obviously went from a better team to a worse team to have a bigger role. DRuss could be understood to have gone from a worse team to a better team to gain more proper development and winning experience.

If Crab is most likely gonna start, that could mean it's gonna be a training camp battle between DRuss and LVJ. Kenny's gotta figure out the fits, strategies, best lineups etc. of course.

DRuss's idol is Manu, it just might be his thing.

Russell is not coming off of the bench. He is literally the franchise player of this team. We just traded Brook Lopez for this kid, do you seriously think that was done so that he can play back up?

i dont think he sits but i wouldnt rule it out... if lin/levert really play great i think there is a chance. no way crabbe sits. especially if the team is sold. marks jobs is now handcuffed to how crabbe turns out

I think you're weighing Crabbe's contract number way too much into the equation. Just because he's the highest paid doesn't mean he's the primary option. You and I both know who this team's has hitched its wagon to, its Russell.

Neither Lin nor LeVert are better talent wise than Russell.

Also, remember the business aspect of this. The Nets aren't going to have a popular young player that they've miraculously got their hands on run bench unit just because Allen Crabbe is overpaid. Russell is now the face of this team. When has at any time in the NBA a team chosen to bring their top player off of the bench?

Marks' job is handcuffed to how this entire team turns out over the next 3-4 seasons. Not just Allen Crabbe. You're projecting your disdain for Crabbe's deal onto the reality of the overall situation.

[sportscrazy]

DeMarre Carroll for Ryan Anderson?

[MrDollarBills]

Well, one of Crab, LVJ and DRuss will come off the bench, I don't think any of them is a scrub

Russell is better than both Crabbe and LeVert. He is a 15 4 and 5 player at age 21. I'll wager if Crabbe is out there getting cooked defensively he'll be the one getting moved to a bench role first.

The Nets are not going to bring their primary offensive option and top overall talent off of the bench. That makes no sense basketball wise, or business wise since Russell is primed to be a star in this market.

its about development, so basketball sense is less of an issue... russell needs development too, but he would see his 28-plus minutes either way. Crabbe is our highest paid guy and at 25 they probably have less time to develop him. Russell they have mroe time with to both develop and before they give him a huge payday

based off kenny and marks comments, you can tell the urgency they have to develop crabbe

Crabbe's development is a priority. One of many. I'll wager that it doesn't come at the expense of Russell, whose upside blows everyone else's out of the water.

Crabbe is already an elite shooter. They think he can grow into his contract by expanding his game. Not an insane idea. Doesn't mean that Russell takes a backseat to that though.

[MrDollarBills]

DeMarre Carroll for Ryan Anderson?

man hell no

[Prokorov]

I think you're weighing Crabbe's contract number way too much into the equation. Just because he's the highest paid doesn't mean he's the primary option. You and I both know who this team's has hitched its wagon to, its Russell.

Russell has by far the highest ceiling, and is currently our best player. but he is younger with less pressure to develop him, since he is so talented.

Crabbe is a role player we paid like an all-star based on potential, not current production. and i think it does matter he is paid that way and our highest paid guy. being 25 also matters. i cant see how anyone elses development is more urgent for the team right now. if Crabbe doesnt make a big leap forward, its going to sting.

And you can tell from marks and kenny, they know it/think this way

Neither Lin nor LeVert are better talent wise than Russell.

which is why i think russell starts

Also, remember the business aspect of this. The Nets aren't going to have a popular young player that they've miraculously got their hands on run bench unit just because Allen Crabbe is overpaid. Russell is now the face of this team. When has at any time in the NBA a team chosen to bring their top player off of the bench?

Marks' job is handcuffed to how this entire team turns out over the next 3-4 seasons. Not just Allen Crabbe. You're projecting your disdain for Crabbe's deal onto the reality of the overall situation.

im not projecting, read marks and kennys comments.

id prefer crabbe to sit in favor of levert as i think levert has the higher ceiling. i just dont see it happening