2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[MrDollarBills]

I think you're weighing Crabbe's contract number way too much into the equation. Just because he's the highest paid doesn't mean he's the primary option. You and I both know who this team's has hitched its wagon to, its Russell.

Russell has by far the highest ceiling, and is currently our best player. but he is younger with less pressure to develop him, since he is so talented.

Crabbe is a role player we paid like an all-star based on potential, not current production. and i think it does matter he is paid that way and our highest paid guy. being 25 also matters. i cant see how anyone elses development is more urgent for the team right now. if Crabbe doesnt make a big leap forward, its going to sting.

And you can tell from marks and kenny, they know it/think this way

Neither Lin nor LeVert are better talent wise than Russell.

which is why i think russell starts

Also, remember the business aspect of this. The Nets aren't going to have a popular young player that they've miraculously got their hands on run bench unit just because Allen Crabbe is overpaid. Russell is now the face of this team. When has at any time in the NBA a team chosen to bring their top player off of the bench?

Marks' job is handcuffed to how this entire team turns out over the next 3-4 seasons. Not just Allen Crabbe. You're projecting your disdain for Crabbe's deal onto the reality of the overall situation.

im not projecting, read marks and kennys comments.

id prefer crabbe to sit in favor of levert as i think levert has the higher ceiling. i just dont see it happening

agreed regarding Levert vs. Crabbe.

I also agree that if Crabbe doesn't develop, that is a critical blow.

which is why i balked at the trade at first.

[ChokeFasncists]

We were going to give Reddick 26 million to come off the bench even after the DLo trade. Reddick himself confirmed his salary wouldn't of guaranteed playing time (thus he didn't sign)

Crabbe's contract isn't going to dictate his playing time. There is no counter argument.

That might be true but those two are in quite different situations.

Redick would be closer to a Foye/Scola/Vasquez but a much better player. Whereas Crab was supposed to be underutilized by the Blazers and now would be paid big to have an expanded role on a worse team. It wouldn't make a whole lotta sense to have him still come off the bench. He was dubbed one of the worst contract in the league, if he still averages 10ppg, Marks would look real bad and he probably regrets waiving the trade kicker.

.

No, its not a different situation. Crabbe is filling the exact same role Reddick would've. Reddick wasn't a Foye/Scola/Vasquez move. You don't give a guy 26M for veteran leadership. We wanted Reddick for his 3Pt shooting.

It's more like both

You can utilize a player better while still having him come off the bench. The Blazers didn't let crabbe do anything but shoot 3's. If you let him do more then just shoot 3's, and he proves himself to be a good scorer, than we already utilized him better than Portland.

Possibly but very risky.

[ChokeFasncists]

Russells potential role changed the second we added crabbe... crabbe has to start. Last year marks/kenny had more freedom... all the young guys were low salary. now, Crabbe is 25 and our highest paid player.... this is the first time there will really be any urgency/pressure to develop someone... and you can tell by their quotes:



They know they need to develop crabbe big time... that if crabbe doesnt pan out it could be a tough situation that looks really bad.

not saying they throw everything out the window... but there is no way crabbe sits or doesnt lead us in minutes. it is imperative that he develop into a fringe all-star.

Russell obviously plays a huge role as well. but at 22 and with lin still here he can come off the bench in a 28 minute role for a season. Crabbe turns 26 this season and makes 19 million and will be the most under the radar player from ownership/fans/media all year

Agreed. Crab obviously went from a better team to a worse team to have a bigger role. DRuss could be understood to have gone from a worse team to a better team to gain more proper development and winning experience.

If Crab is most likely gonna start, that could mean it's gonna be a training camp battle between DRuss and LVJ. Kenny's gotta figure out the fits, strategies, best lineups etc. of course.

DRuss's idol is Manu, it just might be his thing.

Russell is not coming off of the bench. He is literally the franchise player of this team. We just traded Brook Lopez for this kid, do you seriously think that was done so that he can play back up?

Remember Brook could be had for two first rounders? Not top five first rounders mind you. Those two or one of them's gonna be a franchise player cuz of that? He's gotta earn it.

[ChokeFasncists]

Russell isn't going to be coming off of the bench. He's the most talented player on the squad...this idea that he's some scrub is beyond wild on here.

Well, one of Crab, LVJ and DRuss will come off the bench, I don't think any of them is a scrub

Russell is better than both Crabbe and LeVert. He is a 15 4 and 5 player at age 21. I'll wager if Crabbe is out there getting cooked defensively he'll be the one getting moved to a bench role first.

The Nets are not going to bring their primary offensive option and top overall talent off of the bench. That makes no sense basketball wise, or business wise since Russell is primed to be a star in this market.

Jury's still out on talent. It's not like DRuss has anything off the chart that's measurable like speed, leaping ability, size, efficiency, hustle, strength. His main attribute is shooting but Crab is probably better and LVJ could become real good.

Haha, I don't know about business wise. I'm not sure the FO care that much about it coming from the Spurs culture. If they think coming off the bench is best for DRuss' development, I don't know if they would sacrifice that for selling stuff in the short run.

[ChokeFasncists]

That might be true but those two are in quite different situations.

Redick would be closer to a Foye/Scola/Vasquez but a much better player. Whereas Crab was supposed to be underutilized by the Blazers and now would be paid big to have an expanded role on a worse team. It wouldn't make a whole lotta sense to have him still come off the bench. He was dubbed one of the worst contract in the league, if he still averages 10ppg, Marks would look real bad and he probably regrets waiving the trade kicker.

.

No, its not a different situation. Crabbe is filling the exact same role Reddick would've. Reddick wasn't a Foye/Scola/Vasquez move. You don't give a guy 26M for veteran leadership. We wanted Reddick for his 3Pt shooting.

You can utilize a player better while still having him come off the bench. The Blazers didn't let crabbe do anything but shoot 3's. If you let him do more then just shoot 3's, and he proves himself to be a good scorer, than we already utilized him better than Portland.

its not 2 different roles its 2 different circumstances. Reddick would have been brought in as a veteran to help grow the offense. one of the few guys who is elite shooting threes off the dribble and off screens. that really is a huge spacing asset. only 1 or 2 guys create space like reddick (really only curry, klay, and korver). Crabbe doesnt have that gravity, since he is only really a catch and shoot threat and he is easily run off the line. dont get me wrong, he is a catch and shoot threat but he isnt being double teamed off the ball like reddick in screen situations.

Crabbe is a three point shooter like Reddick, but he isnt here to grow the offense so much as he is here to be developed into (hopefully) an allstar. they didnt bring crabbe in for what he is now, they brought him in for what they think he can be.

reddick not starting is a non issue. he'd be on the court enough to evolve the offense... where as crabbe needs to start/play a ton/ get the most focus possible to develop

Well said. I imagine they'll try to turn Crab into Redick like off screens.

[ChokeFasncists]

Russell started on a 28 win team. Why wouldn't he start for a 20 win team with the likelihood of finishing 28-30 wins? He'd be insulted and rightfully so. Yeah, it's about who fits but I think our problem is talent, not fit.

Not sure that should be the prime reason, last year we were injury plagued, this year we are gunning for the playoffs.

[ChokeFasncists]

Why would they want to trade Lin? he's their leader.

To get value for him before he opts out and to get players/assets on their timeline to seriously compete... like they did with Young and Lopez.

Those two were seriously flawed remnants from the previous regime, not so with Lin.

There will be leaders around like DMC, Booker and others. Lin is here for now to mentor and being excitement. But he's a luxury and probably not part of the future.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll have to see what happens on the court first.

[MrDollarBills]

Agreed. Crab obviously went from a better team to a worse team to have a bigger role. DRuss could be understood to have gone from a worse team to a better team to gain more proper development and winning experience.

If Crab is most likely gonna start, that could mean it's gonna be a training camp battle between DRuss and LVJ. Kenny's gotta figure out the fits, strategies, best lineups etc. of course.

DRuss's idol is Manu, it just might be his thing.

Russell is not coming off of the bench. He is literally the franchise player of this team. We just traded Brook Lopez for this kid, do you seriously think that was done so that he can play back up?

Remember Brook could be had for two first rounders? Not top five first rounders mind you. Those two or one of them's gonna be a franchise player cuz of that? He's gotta earn it.

He's the best player on the team. It's not a question of earning it. He has to show up and play hard obviously, but just realistically everything for the Nets going forward depends a lot on Russell continuing to trend upwards. He's the team's centerpiece.

[MrDollarBills]

Well, one of Crab, LVJ and DRuss will come off the bench, I don't think any of them is a scrub

Russell is better than both Crabbe and LeVert. He is a 15 4 and 5 player at age 21. I'll wager if Crabbe is out there getting cooked defensively he'll be the one getting moved to a bench role first.

The Nets are not going to bring their primary offensive option and top overall talent off of the bench. That makes no sense basketball wise, or business wise since Russell is primed to be a star in this market.

Jury's still out on talent. It's not like DRuss has anything off the chart that's measurable like speed, leaping ability, size, efficiency, hustle, strength. His main attribute is shooting but Crab is probably better and LVJ could become real good.

Haha, I don't know about business wise. I'm not sure the FO care that much about it coming from the Spurs culture. If they think coming off the bench is best for DRuss' development, I don't know if they would sacrifice that for selling stuff in the short run.

The jury isn't out. Russell is the most talented player on this roster. He wasn't a 2nd overall pick two years ago for no reason. Crabbe is not better than him overall, and neither is LeVert. 15 4 and 5 at age 21 isn't something to sneeze at. He's got to improve turnover wise and up his efficiency and defense, but from where I'm sitting its not even close to being questionable.

Basketball is still a business. Nets need to sell tickets, merch, get people engaged. You produce a fun, young team that works hard with a guy like Russell who has fans already as the main guy, that will not only go a long way in building a fanbase in New York but also around the country.

If Russell ends up coming off of the bench for any reason, that is a sign that things have gone horribly wrong. This team won 21 games last year. We're not benching the most talented player that we just traded our franchise's all time scoring leader for.

[Ror1997]

That might be true but those two are in quite different situations.

Redick would be closer to a Foye/Scola/Vasquez but a much better player. Whereas Crab was supposed to be underutilized by the Blazers and now would be paid big to have an expanded role on a worse team. It wouldn't make a whole lotta sense to have him still come off the bench. He was dubbed one of the worst contract in the league, if he still averages 10ppg, Marks would look real bad and he probably regrets waiving the trade kicker.

.

No, its not a different situation. Crabbe is filling the exact same role Reddick would've. Reddick wasn't a Foye/Scola/Vasquez move. You don't give a guy 26M for veteran leadership. We wanted Reddick for his 3Pt shooting.

It's more like both

You can utilize a player better while still having him come off the bench. The Blazers didn't let crabbe do anything but shoot 3's. If you let him do more then just shoot 3's, and he proves himself to be a good scorer, than we already utilized him better than Portland.

Possibly but very risky.

Risky? That response doesn't even make sense. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to shut it down and pretend you're still right. You do this stupid **** all the time. Stick to the lin thread, and stop trying to be a know it all.

[Paradise]

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[Claud]

I know it won't happen right away but I look forward to Dlo-Crabbe-CL-RHJ-Allen line-up. I think we will close the season that way.

I like Lin and DMC but I'm focused on the future and want our core to gel and get as much time together as possible.

[tonman]

I know it won't happen right away but I look forward to Dlo-Crabbe-CL-RHJ-Allen line-up. I think we will close the season that way.

I like Lin and DMC but I'm focused on the future and want our core to gel and get as much time together as possible.

Lin is going to start and if he plays .like the end of.last season. He will finish the season as the unquestioned starting pg. End of debate. He could get traded then you can have your lineup of the future but if he's on this team he's starting.

Of.course the h are going to rebuild around Russell. Rebuilding is going to take time. But the nets are going to rebuild by trying to win. They may not win many games and their decisions may be tied to development but they aren't going to throw out a lineup and hope things work out. You really think if playoffs are a possibility that they would turn that down just to develop?

[treiz]

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Open and shut case.

Everyone has to work for their spot. Personally i dont care for the face of the franchise hoopla that's for the media, pr team to worry about.
All I care about is the front of the jersey Brooklyn.

Anyone can start as long as they're willing to work.
Crabbe and DLO have to get better on defense.

You might not care about the PR stuff, but best believe ownership and management will.

[Claud]

I know it won't happen right away but I look forward to Dlo-Crabbe-CL-RHJ-Allen line-up. I think we will close the season that way.

I like Lin and DMC but I'm focused on the future and want our core to gel and get as much time together as possible.

Lin is going to start and if he plays .like the end of.last season. He will finish the season as the unquestioned starting pg. End of debate. He could get traded then you can have your lineup of the future but if he's on this team he's starting.

Of.course the h are going to rebuild around Russell. Rebuilding is going to take time. But the nets are going to rebuild by trying to win. They may not win many games and their decisions may be tied to development but they aren't going to throw out a lineup and hope things work out. You really think if playoffs are a possibility that they would turn that down just to develop?

When did I say Lin wasn't starting? I expect Lin-Dlo-Crabbe-RHJ-Moz as our starters on opening night...

I love Lin the player/person but some of his fans are just

I was a Nets fan before Lin and will be long after. Lin has been a journeyman/role player so far in his career so I doubt Marks will based his long term decisions around him.

[steady]

Nets could go into training camp with one roster spot unfilled. Its strange but I would not be surprised if they started season with only 14 players on roster - so they can retain max flexibility.

(13 is mandated minimum number)

[kamaze]

Why would they want to trade Lin? he's their leader.

Because leaders can be replaced.

We already have his PG replacement on the roster.

Also he can be traded for assets that can't leave for nothing this year/next and don't turn 30 in 2018.

LA traded DLO away because "players didn't want to play with" as Magic said. Dont know how true that is only DLOs
actions can prove him right or wrong.
I think he's more of a combo guard best utilized next to another ball handler/distributor but didn't follow him so we'll see.

You still didnt give a good reason to trade Lin... Just bc they have another good (?) player doesn't make Lin expendible. They need more talent not less.

I question if DLO is good only because I haven't saw him play yet. Hopefully he becomes better than good. #toughlove

[kamaze]

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Open and shut case.

Everyone has to work for their spot. Personally i dont care for the face of the franchise hoopla that's for the media, pr team to worry about.
All I care about is the front of the jersey Brooklyn.

Anyone can start as long as they're willing to work.
Crabbe and DLO have to get better on defense.

You might not care about the PR stuff, but best believe ownership and management will.

I hope it's not more important than basketball that's where the past regime failed.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Why would they want to trade Lin? he's their leader.

Because leaders can be replaced.

We already have his PG replacement on the roster.

Also he can be traded for assets that can't leave for nothing this year/next and don't turn 30 in 2018.

LA traded DLO away because "players didn't want to play with" as Magic said. Dont know how true that is only DLOs
actions can prove him right or wrong.
I think he's more of a combo guard best utilized next to another ball handler/distributor but didn't follow him so we'll see.

You still didnt give a good reason to trade Lin... Just bc they have another good (?) player doesn't make Lin expendible. They need more talent not less.

I question if DLO is good only because I haven't saw him play yet. Hopefully he becomes better than good. #toughlove

I gave a bunch of good reasons to trade Lin such as clearing up our guard logjam, getting assets that fit our timeline and trading him before he leaves for nothing. Also another reason is that it opens up more playing time and scoring/creating opportunities for our young guys so that they can improve and develop chemistry.

Our other ball handler/distributor is LeVert who played tons of PG in college and is also a dynamic ball handler/passer/playmaker/shot creator.

That wasn't the Magic Johnson quote actually, that's very nitpicked and incorrectly nitpicked. Also Magic Johnson wasn't GM last season and his commentary and tweets before he had the job make me strongly question is ability to evaluate talent despite being the greatest PG ever. He also seems to have an irrational goal of trying to find his replacement and prefers pass first guards over scorers even though scoring guards are where the league is going.

Lin is most valuable to this team as a trade chip IMO, if we can get a solid prospect that better fits the young core or a mid 1st this season I'd do it in a heart beat.

[MrDollarBills]

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Yet, I'm supposed to sit here and believe the notion being stated on here that he's going to take a back seat to Jeremy Lin, Allen Crabbe due to the size of his contract, and Caris LeVert by coming off the bench.