2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

[demens]

Pritchard has proven capable of trading his team into good draft position, but his ability to make good draft choices is mediocre.

Do you care to dispute that statement demens?

That depends if you insist on making a distinction between actual picks and actual players he walked away with. Do you consider that Kevin Pritchard drafted Randy Foye and Tyrus Thomas? Those are his actual picks but i'm pretty sure noone looks at it that way. He got Aldridge and Roy in that draft, those are his picks.

So in the 5 years in charge, he started with 3 lottery picks. Through his trading and maneuvering he managed to walk away with Aldridge, Roy, Oden, Bayless, and Batum. He also got rights to players that other teams picked but they never played for in Rodriguez and Fernandez. He used picks he already had, a trade exception and cash to acquire those guys. You can't really judge this years draft yet, but most experts give him As for drafting Babbitt and Elliot WIlliams.

As for finding quality in later picks, Blazers, a 50 win team had 2 guys picked by Pritchard in the 2nd round in their rotation. Cunningham and Pendergraph. Nothing special, but what more do you want from 2nd rounders? And lets not discount the 3 guys he has stashed in europe who are 21,22,23 years old. 2 of them are rated in top 10 in the rights held category by DX, the 3rd is ranked 25th.

So in 4 drafts, he got his team 4 legit starters (Oden,Roy,Aldridge,Batum), 2 quality back-ups (Fernandez,Bayless), 3 other rotation guys (Rodriguez , Cunningham, Pendergraph), 3 prospects stashed overseas, and 2 more highly rated rookies in his 5th years.

This guy is a genius. Name me anyone that has gotten this much value out of the draft in the last 5 years.

[deviljets7]

^^^^
I would be very careful with praising the depth of picks/prospects. Let's be honest, how many owners other than Paul Allen would be willing to authorize the spending it took to purchase picks/prospects the way he did, especially when POR was in the luxury tax for most of those years? Heck, even this year he was allowed to spend $2 million just to move from 44 to 34.

Does he deserve credit for discovering Batum late in the 1st round? Absolutely. But how many places would he have been able to spend $3 million to draft guys that won't come over to the US for years if at all?

[enetric]

There are 2-3 different summer leagues I believe the one you have to pay for is the Vegas summer league, the Nets are likely competing in the Orlando Summer League again (which is free to watch).

Do we have a link yet?

[enetric]

I have no interest in getting involved but I just wanted to say that Thorn never wanted Eddie Griffin, he just drafted him because he knew Houston wanted him. Eddie Griffin was never going to be a Net even though we did draft him, so it's irrelevant to the conversation AND the point force... oops I mean mikhailjordan wanted to make.

Well, it kind of is relevant to the point he was trying to make, I just don't think Demens worded it correctly.

Is relavent really the issue when his points are continuously way off the mark?

[mikhailjordan]

There are 2-3 different summer leagues I believe the one you have to pay for is the Vegas summer league, the Nets are likely competing in the Orlando Summer League again (which is free to watch).

Do we have a link yet?

Oh damn this is all that's up right now:

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/summerlea ... 60910.html

And it's looking like that along with a change in summer league name, these games might not be broadcast live

Here's the facebook page for the two guys who have done the announcing for the Orlando SL the last few years:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Magic-Ove ... 9511745422

When I get the time I'll shoot them a message and see if they respond...

[enetric]

Pritchard has proven capable of trading his team into good draft position, but his ability to make good draft choices is mediocre.

Do you care to dispute that statement demens?

That depends if you insist on making a distinction between actual picks and actual players he walked away with. Do you consider that Kevin Pritchard drafted Randy Foye and Tyrus Thomas? Those are his actual picks but i'm pretty sure noone looks at it that way. He got Aldridge and Roy in that draft, those are his picks.

So in the 5 years in charge, he started with 3 lottery picks. Through his trading and maneuvering he managed to walk away with Aldridge, Roy, Oden, Bayless, and Batum. He also got rights to players that other teams picked but they never played for in Rodriguez and Fernandez. He used picks he already had, a trade exception and cash to acquire those guys. You can't really judge this years draft yet, but most experts give him As for drafting Babbitt and Elliot WIlliams.

As for finding quality in later picks, Blazers, a 50 win team had 2 guys picked by Pritchard in the 2nd round in their rotation. Cunningham and Pendergraph. Nothing special, but what more do you want from 2nd rounders? And lets not discount the 3 guys he has stashed in europe who are 21,22,23 years old. 2 of them are rated in top 10 in the rights held category by DX, the 3rd is ranked 25th.

So in 4 drafts, he got his team 4 legit starters (Oden,Roy,Aldridge,Batum), 2 quality back-ups (Fernandez,Bayless), 3 other rotation guys (Rodriguez , Cunningham, Pendergraph), 3 prospects stashed overseas, and 2 more highly rated rookies in his 5th years.

This guy is a genius. Name me anyone that has gotten this much value out of the draft in the last 5 years.

While I like what Pritchard has done...(taking Oden over Durant aside....a pretty massive oops)...you cant just glaze over the lottery picks Portland had in the Pritchard era by percentage..to how many we have had in the Thorn era. We were in the playoffs for 6 years straight and had a vast majority of our picks in the late teens to early 20's. Its reasonable not to find the 1 in 10 needle in a haystack picks...and even so...Rod did find a couple of pretty decent guys low.

But his lottery picks...Kmart, Brook, Twill and Favors. Too soon to know if we got it right with Favors...and Twill didn't show his worth until late last year. But honestly? That's pretty good picking among the high picks. And...when you consider how awful our team was when he first got here, and for how long...Rod is the guy that took us from nothing to two NBA finals with the moves he made the call on. How anyone isnt wowed by the job Rod has done is bizarre. When cash got tight and yet another team sale was at hand....he parlayed losing Kmart into three first round picks that got us Vince Carter later....which of course was far better than it would have turned out in the years to follow had we signed Kmart to that awful contract he never lived up to.

And, I hapen to believe strongly...that with a bit of luck...its us who landed KG. Had Boston who had the 2nd worst record in the league not ended up with the 5th pick...but 1st or 2nd...they go after Oden or Durant rather than trade for Ray Allen. Had they not traded for Ray...no way KG approves the trade to Minny...and they wouldnt have made that deal without the extension. They were running out of teams in the East to deal him to. I trully believe RJ/Nenad and some picks...and KG is playing wth Kidd and Carter instead of Pierce and Allen. Now...of course its speculation...but the point is...while you cant guarantee anything in this league...you build to something smart. Rod knew when to build, and when to drop back. Demens is a guy who is impatient. Every move he prefers is about dragging us permanently to the middle.

This guy has a problem with Rod Thorn that makes little sense to anyone. But my problem is...the arguments are always faulty and one sided. That is why I say...in his world 2+2=5 and we are all the ones who don't know what we are talking about. If your logic is severely off the mark...the argument you make will be as well.

At some point, I imagine we will hear a Demens angle as to why Michael Jordan in fact sucked.


And the best part? He has no real defense against his nonsense. If he did he would man up and actually answer the challenges made to him. He would say something that draws a handful of readers of his post to say...hmmm...interesting point. But he wont because HE CANT. He would rather act indignant. Now, the ignore feature exists for a keep the peace mentality. I know it makes life easier for the mods....I get that. But my opinion? MAN UP. If you can actually change minds...and make an interesting point...MAN UP. Answer the challenge rather than hiding.

[enetric]

There are 2-3 different summer leagues I believe the one you have to pay for is the Vegas summer league, the Nets are likely competing in the Orlando Summer League again (which is free to watch).

Do we have a link yet?

Oh damn this is all that's up right now:

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/summerlea ... 60910.html

And it's looking like that along with a change in summer league name, these games might not be broadcast live

Here's the facebook page for the two guys who have done the announcing for the Orlando SL the last few years:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Magic-Ove ... 9511745422

When I get the time I'll shoot them a message and see if they respond...

Enetric gold star for you. Stepping up the last couple of days...nice job.

[demens]

^^^^
I would be very careful with praising the depth of picks/prospects. Let's be honest, how many owners other than Paul Allen would be willing to authorize the spending it took to purchase picks/prospects the way he did, especially when POR was in the luxury tax for most of those years? Heck, even this year he was allowed to spend $2 million just to move from 44 to 34.

Does he deserve credit for discovering Batum late in the 1st round? Absolutely. But how many places would he have been able to spend $3 million to draft guys that won't come over to the US for years if at all?

Ok, that a valid point. He was in a situation that gave him extra resources and he took advantage of them. That shouldn't be a determent to the job he did though. It just shows he is a stop GM that knows how to run a financially stable team. Doesn't mean he would fall off the edge of the earth on a team in cost cutting mode. And beside, the Nets are becoming more like the Blazers in that regard, so him having that experience is more valuable then if he would have worked under any other circumstances.

[Jersey Generals]

the Nets are becoming more like the Blazers in that regard.

News to me. I haven't seen anything that would warrant that kind of claim just yet.

[demens]

the Nets are becoming more like the Blazers in that regard.

News to me. I haven't seen anything that would warrant that kind of claim just yet.

How about hiring one of the most expensive assistant coaches?

[Jersey Generals]

How about hiring one of the most expensive assistant coaches?

Hiring/paying coaches does not equate to spending 2 million dollars just to trade up ten picks in the second round, which is the direct reference you were making to the Blazers spending practices under Kevin Pritchard's reign.

[demens]

Hiring/paying coaches does not equate to spending 2 million dollars just to trade up ten picks in the second round, which is the direct reference you were making to the Blazers spending practices under Kevin Pritchard's reign.

No, i wasn't making any direct reference to anything specific. People want to take credit away from Pritch because he had an owner that gave him resources most teams dont have. Well, the Nets do. Hiring Mitchell certainly doesn't look like a move we'd be making with Ratner in charge. Failing to acquire another 2nd rounder is a show of Thorns incompetence, not Prokhys cheapness. I'm sure if he wanted to, those resources would have been available to him. Instead he thought there wasn't any talent in the 2nd round, so he didn't bother. Half assing it right before retirement.

[treiz]

^LOL, so just because Thorn didn't get a 2nd rounder, he's incompetent?

Wait, since when did 2nd rounders become so valuable? Since when was there a need to get a 2nd rounder (that 99.9% at best) that would result into a 9/10th man off the bench? Since when did the demand for these kinds of players shoot up? I know you have E on ignore but I'm going to put up a good point that he made on why Thorn was a great GM for us.

"While I like what Pritchard has done...(taking Oden over Durant aside....a pretty massive oops)...you cant just glaze over the lottery picks Portland had in the Pritchard era by percentage..to how many we have had in the Thorn era. We were in the playoffs for 6 years straight and had a vast majority of our picks in the late teens to early 20's. Its reasonable not to find the 1 in 10 needle in a haystack picks...and even so...Rod did find a couple of pretty decent guys low.

But his lottery picks...Kmart, Brook, Twill and Favors. Too soon to know if we got it right with Favors...and Twill didn't show his worth until late last year. But honestly? That's pretty good picking among the high picks. And...when you consider how awful our team was when he first got here, and for how long...Rod is the guy that took us from nothing to two NBA finals with the moves he made the call on. How anyone isnt wowed by the job Rod has done is bizarre. When cash got tight and yet another team sale was at hand....he parlayed losing Kmart into three first round picks that got us Vince Carter later....which of course was far better than it would have turned out in the years to follow had we signed Kmart to that awful contract he never lived up to. "

And it's not half assing, it's just how pointless the move is. Even if we had a 2nd rounder, what would that guy have done to prove his spot? He most likely would've gained 8-10mpg on the FREAKIN SUMMER LEAGUE, and in a suit come regular season if he isn't cut for roster space. There's always talent in the 2nd round, but you have to ask is it NBA talent? Can they manage to play with and against the top athletes in the world? If the success rate for low 1st rounders is low enough why would try to get a 2nd rounder? I've got a feeling that you're going to say "Well we were a 12-win team, we might as well have taken risks", if you're going to take risks, then you should do it via trades or free agency, not the F****** 2nd round of the draft.

[demens]

^LOL, so just because Thorn didn't get a 2nd rounder, he's incompetent?

He is incompetent for many reasons. That probably being the least of it.

As for the other post. What couple of guys did Thorn find in the 20s? Boone? Kristic? CDR? Please.

Blazers have been a 41+ win team the past 3 seasons, take a look what Pritchard has done in the draft since then. Its not easy getting it right with the late picks, thats why accumulating more of them is the smart thing since it improves your chances. I listed all the guys he got through the draft before so i'm not gonna keep doing it, his list is much better then Thorns.

I dont even know why we're comparing the 2 anyway. Thorn brought this team to the finals, great, that was 7 8 years ago, people need to get over that. He then proceeded to run that championship contender into the ground. And no, it wasn't cost cutting that did that, it was Thorns failed draft picks and failed free agent signings that wasted away Jason Kidds prime years.

And it's not half assing, it's just how pointless the move is. Even if we had a 2nd rounder, what would that guy have done to prove his spot? He most likely would've gained 8-10mpg on the FREAKIN SUMMER LEAGUE, and in a suit come regular season if he isn't cut for roster space. There's always talent in the 2nd round, but you have to ask is it NBA talent? Can they manage to play with and against the top athletes in the world? If the success rate for low 1st rounders is low enough why would try to get a 2nd rounder? I've got a feeling that you're going to say "Well we were a 12-win team, we might as well have taken risks", if you're going to take risks, then you should do it via trades or free agency, not the F****** 2nd round of the draft.

Yes, there is NBA talent in the 2nd round always. Take a look at the drafts. There about 8 guys on average picked in the 2nd round that are top 8 in thier teams rotation. What makes you think that person wouldn't get minutes in freaking summer league? We have 8 guys on the roster for Gods sake, its not like we have limited space, we're not gonna sign 5 Lebrons.

[treiz]

^LOL, so just because Thorn didn't get a 2nd rounder, he's incompetent?

He is incompetent for many reasons. That probably being the least of it.

As for the other post. What couple of guys did Thorn find in the 20s? Boone? Kristic? CDR? Please.

Blazers have been a 41+ win team the past 3 seasons, take a look what Pritchard has done in the draft since then. Its not easy getting it right with the late picks, thats why accumulating more of them is the smart thing since it improves your chances. I listed all the guys he got through the draft before so i'm not gonna keep doing it, his list is much better then Thorns.

I dont even know why we're comparing the 2 anyway. Thorn brought this team to the finals, great, that was 7 8 years ago, people need to get over that. He then proceeded to run that championship contender into the ground. And no, it wasn't cost cutting that did that, it was Thorns failed draft picks and failed free agent signings that wasted away Jason Kidds prime years.

And it's not half assing, it's just how pointless the move is. Even if we had a 2nd rounder, what would that guy have done to prove his spot? He most likely would've gained 8-10mpg on the FREAKIN SUMMER LEAGUE, and in a suit come regular season if he isn't cut for roster space. There's always talent in the 2nd round, but you have to ask is it NBA talent? Can they manage to play with and against the top athletes in the world? If the success rate for low 1st rounders is low enough why would try to get a 2nd rounder? I've got a feeling that you're going to say "Well we were a 12-win team, we might as well have taken risks", if you're going to take risks, then you should do it via trades or free agency, not the F****** 2nd round of the draft.

Yes, there is NBA talent in the 2nd round always. Take a look at the drafts. There about 8 guys on average picked in the 2nd round that are top 8 in thier teams rotation. What makes you think that person wouldn't get minutes in freaking summer league? We have 8 guys on the roster for Gods sake, its not like we have limited space, we're not gonna sign 5 Lebrons.

Who did Pritch find in the late stages of the draft (20s and beyond)? These are all Kevin Pritchard's late picks throughout his tenure.

Actual picks that could've had contributed:
Rudy
Batum
Koponen
Josh McRoberts
Taurean Green

Jury still out there:
Dante Cunningham
Babbitt
Elliot Williams
Victor Claver
Patrick Mills
Armon Johnson

From those picks: he got 2/5 correct, that's a 0.4 success rate. None of these guys are great players, they're role players who contributes off the bench. The same type of players that Thorn has picked up in the late stages of the draft. With the exception of Krstic, he was actually a great find, but injuries IMO ruined him, even now he's making a decent comeback.

I agree that their is talent in the 2nd round, but like I said are they "NBA talent". An example of this is James White, his athleticism is freaking ridiculous but can he play in the NBA, another example is a Nets pick Hassan Adams, he was a good player in SL, but he was out of the league in 3 years (IIRC). Also, I find that "8 draft picks picked in the 2nd round" statement a bit false. If you're saying that 8 players per draft end up in the top 8 rotation in the league, I will simply laugh in your face unless you prove otherwise. If what I think your saying, which is 8 active players from the 2nd round in general since the first ever draft are in the top 8 rotation in the league today, then what kind of success rate is that? That's atrocious. Even then, they're bench players, no point in investing when the odds indicates there's not going to be much(if any) return.

You have to keep in mind we share the same summer league team as Philly, they too have players whom they want to develop, if we had a 2nd round pick I can almost guarantee unless he somehow ends being completely badass and a stud for some god forsaken reason, then he'll get 8-10mpg. GUARANTEED

[deviljets7]

^LOL, so just because Thorn didn't get a 2nd rounder, he's incompetent?

He is incompetent for many reasons. That probably being the least of it.

As for the other post. What couple of guys did Thorn find in the 20s? Boone? Kristic? CDR? Please.

Weren't you the one in your endless praise of Pritchard who brought up the likes of Sergio Rodriguez and Jeff Pendergraph? Quite hypocritical.

[enetric]

Funny how he forgot Nenad.

[Morthello]

Hiring/paying coaches does not equate to spending 2 million dollars just to trade up ten picks in the second round, which is the direct reference you were making to the Blazers spending practices under Kevin Pritchard's reign.

No, i wasn't making any direct reference to anything specific. People want to take credit away from Pritch because he had an owner that gave him resources most teams dont have. Well, the Nets do. Hiring Mitchell certainly doesn't look like a move we'd be making with Ratner in charge. Failing to acquire another 2nd rounder is a show of Thorns incompetence, not Prokhys cheapness. I'm sure if he wanted to, those resources would have been available to him. Instead he thought there wasn't any talent in the 2nd round, so he didn't bother. Half assing it right before retirement.

Calm down; as far as im concerned Rod did excellent in the draft. The more i read about James i honestly feel like we got 2 lottery players in this draft. If your so obseesed with 2nd rounders in this draft( where talent looked sparce to begin with), you should look at all the undrafted rookies we're bringin in to workout.

[lurkingobeiscity]

I love the Zoubek pickup. He's the perfect guy for Brook to go against every practice. He's got size and he's extremely active. Reminds me of Zaza Pachulia.

[demens]

From those picks: he got 2/5 correct, that's a 0.4 success rate. None of these guys are great players, they're role players who contributes off the bench. The same type of players that Thorn has picked up in the late stages of the draft. With the exception of Krstic, he was actually a great find, but injuries IMO ruined him, even now he's making a decent comeback.

Batum is a much better player then anyone Thorn has picked and 0.4 success rate is much higher then Thorns.

I agree that their is talent in the 2nd round, but like I said are they "NBA talent". An example of this is James White, his athleticism is freaking ridiculous but can he play in the NBA, another example is a Nets pick Hassan Adams, he was a good player in SL, but he was out of the league in 3 years (IIRC).

Yes, there IS "NBA Talent". Just because you list 2 scrubs that didn't make it doesn't mean there aren't tons of players that did.

Also, I find that "8 draft picks picked in the 2nd round" statement a bit false. If you're saying that 8 players per draft end up in the top 8 rotation in the league, I will simply laugh in your face unless you prove otherwise.

Thats what i'm saying, so laugh all you want or not. Take a look at the drafts, if you dont recognize about 8 or so 2nd round guys (on average) as useful rotation players (most top 8) then maybe you dont know that many NBA players.

You have to keep in mind we share the same summer league team as Philly, they too have players whom they want to develop, if we had a 2nd round pick I can almost guarantee unless he somehow ends being completely badass and a stud for some god forsaken reason, then he'll get 8-10mpg. GUARANTEED

What does Philly have to do with anything. We're not suppose to draft players because of Philly, you're joking? Plus we were sharing a team because of Ratner and everyone thought the idea is a mockery, they are not doing that again this year as far as i know.