The Official Should We Have Signed Thad Thread

[Universe]

You understand that Memphis is only where its at because of the emergence of Marc Gasol right? Who they traded their borderline superstar power forward for?

And Atlanta is faux contender. If you wanna be Memphis or Atlanta fine. Then your strategy could work. But I guarantee you that neither Memphis nor Atlanta will win a championship as currently constructed.

But I only care about the Nets being a championship level team.

And again youre right about the slim odds. But now youre using the Pistons as an example? Thats beyond slim odds, its microscopic. I would love for us to become the Pistons. But it would be 100x easier for us to draft a superstar. Because I don't think there has been any other NBA champion since I was born (93), which didn't draft their superstar.

I think we can both agree that drafting a superstar is very hard to do and requires luck. But personally, I am willing to take the chance and do that rather than become the next Atlanta Hawks.

There has also been only nine teams since 1984 who have won a championship. Within those teams, most had multiple superstars so we'll have to do a lot of tanking to get to that level. Maybe Philly has it right?

Would love to be one of those teams bro. Maybe we should emulate them.

You're making it seem like half of the NBA doesn't want to win a championship. Every fanbase, ownership group and I would assume players, would love to win a championship. That's what sports is all about.

[MrDollarBills]

I love how a 60 win team is "mediocre".

Do they have any chance of winning an NBA championship? Overachieving in one of the worst Eastern Conferences ever does not make you a contender.

You can aim for being the Atlanta Hawks. Winning 60 games and getting eviscerated like little boys in the ECF is not impressive to me. They're honestly lucky Wall wasn't there to beat them in the the 2nd round. And that PP's buzzer beater didn't count.

They even had some trouble with the joke of a team we have. LOL.

They got the East Finals, were decimated by injuries and lost to a team that has the best player on the planet...there's no shame in that. Trying to put an asterisk about how they got their is pretty weak too, would you put an asterisk next to the Warriors' championship because they beat a decimated Cavs team? Come on. Winning 60 games in the NBA is winning 60 games, doesn't matter the conference especially since they were pounding West teams too all season long. It's amazing to sit here and read a fan of a team that has only won more than 50 games ONCE in its 38 years in the NBA just scoff that kind of season off.

Does anyone have a chance in the East winning a championship with Lebron James in this conference?

Do you think that guys like that grow on trees? You seem to think so the way you're carrying on with this stuff.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I love how a 60 win team is "mediocre".

Do they have any chance of winning an NBA championship? Overachieving in one of the worst Eastern Conferences ever does not make you a contender.

You can aim for being the Atlanta Hawks. Winning 60 games and getting eviscerated like little boys in the ECF is not impressive to me. They're honestly lucky Wall wasn't there to beat them in the the 2nd round. And that PP's buzzer beater didn't count.

They even had some trouble with the joke of a team we have. LOL.

They got the East Finals, were decimated by injuries and lost to a team that has the best player on the planet...there's no shame in that. Trying to put an asterisk about how they got their is pretty weak too, would you put an asterisk next to the Warriors' championship because they beat a decimated Cavs team? Come on. Winning 60 games in the NBA is winning 60 games, doesn't matter the conference especially since they were pounding West teams too all season long. It's amazing to sit here and read a fan of a team that has only won more than 50 games ONCE in its 38 years in the NBA just scoff that kind of season off.

Does anyone have a chance in the East winning a championship with Lebron James in this conference?

Do you think that guys like that grow on trees? You seem to think so the way you're carrying on with this stuff.

They got to the East finals after the team they were vsing lost their best player and the got lucky cause Pierce's buzzer beat was too late. But yea they barely made it to the ECF. And the Warriors beat a bunch of really good teams to get to the Finals at least. What did the Hawks do?

Making the ECF does not make you a title contender when the east sucks. Yea it sounds great on paper, but in reality the East is just a terrible conference. And nobody outside of the Cavs has any shot of contending with western teams. I would prob take the 1-6 West teams in a 7 game series vs the Hawks last year.

As far as being "decimated" by injuries. No. Horford and Milsap their two best players were both healthy. They were still getting destroyed by the Cavs before Krover went down. And the Cavs were missing Love and barely had Kyrie, which I would argue are just as big if not bigger losses.

Look win totals are cute, but if you're not a legit contender I don't care. They were really well coached and played in one of the worst eastern conferences and they did manage to win 60 games. And I'm not taking that away from them.

But theyre not a championship contender and if you think they are, youre kidding yourself. No team is going to win in the NBA without a superstar. I'm sorry.

The Nets only won 49 games in 03. But they were also a great team that made the NBA Finals and gave the best Spurs of all time, cause for pause. So win totals aren't everything. Its the makeup of your team that really matters.

[Universe]

I love how a 60 win team is "mediocre".

Do they have any chance of winning an NBA championship? Overachieving in one of the worst Eastern Conferences ever does not make you a contender.

You can aim for being the Atlanta Hawks. Winning 60 games and getting eviscerated like little boys in the ECF is not impressive to me. They're honestly lucky Wall wasn't there to beat them in the the 2nd round. And that PP's buzzer beater didn't count.

They even had some trouble with the joke of a team we have. LOL.

They got the East Finals, were decimated by injuries and lost to a team that has the best player on the planet...there's no shame in that. Trying to put an asterisk about how they got their is pretty weak too, would you put an asterisk next to the Warriors' championship because they beat a decimated Cavs team? Come on. Winning 60 games in the NBA is winning 60 games, doesn't matter the conference especially since they were pounding West teams too all season long. It's amazing to sit here and read a fan of a team that has only won more than 50 games ONCE in its 38 years in the NBA just scoff that kind of season off.

Does anyone have a chance in the East winning a championship with Lebron James in this conference?

Do you think that guys like that grow on trees? You seem to think so the way you're carrying on with this stuff.

That's the thing. Hawks were in a position to win. Say if the injury happened to LeBron instead of Kevin Love, the Hawks could have made the Finals. Hawks also went 1-1 against the Warriors this year so who knows what could have happened. The same thing happened to the Warriors on their journey there. Not to discredit their championship, but you can't deny a little luck went into getting that ring.

The only teams that have a zero percent chance of winning a championship are the ones who don't make the playoffs.

[MrDollarBills]

You understand that Memphis is only where its at because of the emergence of Marc Gasol right? Who they traded their borderline superstar power forward for?

And Atlanta is faux contender. If you wanna be Memphis or Atlanta fine. Then your strategy could work. But I guarantee you that neither Memphis nor Atlanta will win a championship as currently constructed.

But I only care about the Nets being a championship level team.

And again youre right about the slim odds. But now youre using the Pistons as an example? Thats beyond slim odds, its microscopic. I would love for us to become the Pistons. But it would be 100x easier for us to draft a superstar. Because I don't think there has been any other NBA champion since I was born (93), which didn't draft their superstar.

I think we can both agree that drafting a superstar is very hard to do and requires luck. But personally, I am willing to take the chance and do that rather than become the next Atlanta Hawks.

There has also been only nine teams since 1984 who have won a championship. Within those teams, most had multiple superstars so we'll have to do a lot of tanking to get to that level. Maybe Philly has it right?

Would love to be one of those teams bro. Maybe we should emulate them.

this is ridiculous. If it was so easy to emulate those teams then there would be more than 9 teams laying claim to the title of NBA champion in the last 31 years. Let's keep it modern era, so we can start in the 90s:

Bulls: Had the greatest player of all **** ing TIME fall into their laps. HE FELL INTO THEIR LAPS. Odds of that happening to the Nets even if they TANK for 20 years STRAIGHT is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. And then, the Sonics traded them one of the sport's greatest small forwards ever in 1987 for Olden Polynice and a JUNK future pick. I'm sure Billy King can pull off that kind of stuff blindfolded, right???

Lakers: Let's see...oh, just happened to have in one summer in 1996 acquire TWO OF THE LEAGUE'S TOP 25 PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. Shaq had openly spoke about going to the Lakers in the middle of the 95-96 season, god knows how much tampering was happening there at that time. The most physically dominating player in the history of the sport just waltzes right over to them. Okay. Then...then somehow, the 2nd best SG and one of the top 3 players of the 21st century thus far just somehow plummets to the 13th pick in the draft to be drafted by the Hornets, who then trade this player to the Lakers...and by all accounts, this player's reps had threatened teams including our Nets that he wanted to play for the LAKERS. Again, in one summer they acquire two once in a life time generational talents. Chances of this kind of **** happening to the Nets within a 5-7 year period? ZERO.

Houston Rockets: Draft the most skilled center to play the sport since Abdul-Jabar, manages to acquire a top 5 SG at the time...oh yeah, and Michael Jordan is retired at this time, opening the window for someone who otherwise would have lost to win...wanna guess the odds of anything like that happening for the Nets? At least this scenario could be plausible...if you manage to land the #1 pick, and a hall of famer is waiting there for the taking. Slim to **** ing NONE.

San Antonio Spurs: They are forced to tank it due to losing their HOF center and their starting SF in a year where the greatest PF of all time is on the board, lands the #1 pick despite not having the league's worst record...then go on to draft two hall of famers in the late 1st rd and 2nd round. LOL. Yeah, good luck emulating that.

Detroit Pistons: Builds a talented team of B-Tier and C-Tier players, with only their starting SF as being their only draftee, established a defensive identity and all the parts clicked and for a good period were a team that no one wanted to play because of the grinding style of play, the brute force inside with Rasheed and Ben Wallace, deadeye shooting and top tier leadership from Chauncey Billups, acquired possibly the best midrange jump shooter I've ever seen in Rip Hamilton, and had a HOF coach. This team was built through the method I've advocated...but chances of winning a title in this manner? SLIM as ****.

Miami Heat: Has one of the best SGs of all time/first ballot HOF fall into their laps because Joe Dumars had a hard on for Darko....and then TWICE within less than 10 years to manages to acquire SEVERAL HALL OF FAME PLAYERS via either trade(Shaq) or free agency (Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Gary Payton)...I'm not even going to bother.

Emulating this stuff is next to goddamn impossible...and none of the teams(unless you wanna consider Dallas?) followed the Sixers method. Not a single one. You know who followed the Sixers method? The Kings, the Clippers, and the NETS. Sucking every year doesn't mean you're gonna build jack ****.

[Hello Brooklyn]

There has also been only nine teams since 1984 who have won a championship. Within those teams, most had multiple superstars so we'll have to do a lot of tanking to get to that level. Maybe Philly has it right?

Would love to be one of those teams bro. Maybe we should emulate them.

this is ridiculous. If it was so easy to emulate those teams then there would be more than 9 teams laying claim to the title of NBA champion in the last 31 years. Let's keep it modern era, so we can start in the 90s:

Bulls: Had the greatest player of all **** ing TIME fall into their laps. HE FELL INTO THEIR LAPS. Odds of that happening to the Nets even if they TANK for 20 years STRAIGHT is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. And then, the Sonics traded them one of the sport's greatest small forwards ever in 1987 for Olden Polynice and a JUNK future pick. I'm sure Billy King can pull off that kind of stuff blindfolded, right???

Lakers: Let's see...oh, just happened to have in one summer in 1996 acquire TWO OF THE LEAGUE'S TOP 25 PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. Shaq had openly spoke about going to the Lakers in the middle of the 95-96 season, god knows how much tampering was happening there at that time. The most physically dominating player in the history of the sport just waltzes right over to them. Okay. Then...then somehow, the 2nd best SG and one of the top 3 players of the 21st century thus far just somehow plummets to the 13th pick in the draft to be drafted by the Hornets, who then trade this player to the Lakers...and by all accounts, this player's reps had threatened teams including our Nets that he wanted to play for the LAKERS. Again, in one summer they acquire two once in a life time generational talents. Chances of this kind of **** happening to the Nets within a 5-7 year period? ZERO.

Houston Rockets: Draft the most skilled center to play the sport since Abdul-Jabar, manages to acquire a top 5 SG at the time...oh yeah, and Michael Jordan is retired at this time, opening the window for someone who otherwise would have lost to win...wanna guess the odds of anything like that happening for the Nets? At least this scenario could be plausible...if you manage to land the #1 pick, and a hall of famer is waiting there for the taking. Slim to **** ing NONE.

San Antonio Spurs: They are forced to tank it due to losing their HOF center and their starting SF in a year where the greatest PF of all time is on the board, lands the #1 pick despite not having the league's worst record...then go on to draft two hall of famers in the late 1st rd and 2nd round. LOL. Yeah, good luck emulating that.

Detroit Pistons: Builds a talented team of B-Tier and C-Tier players, with only their starting SF as being their only draftee, established a defensive identity and all the parts clicked and for a good period were a team that no one wanted to play because of the grinding style of play, the brute force inside with Rasheed and Ben Wallace, deadeye shooting and top tier leadership from Chauncey Billups, acquired possibly the best midrange jump shooter I've ever seen in Rip Hamilton, and had a HOF coach. This team was built through the method I've advocated...but chances of winning a title in this manner? SLIM as ****.

Miami Heat: Has one of the best SGs of all time/first ballot HOF fall into their laps because Joe Dumars had a hard on for Darko....and then TWICE within less than 10 years to manages to acquire SEVERAL HALL OF FAME PLAYERS via either trade(Shaq) or free agency (Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Gary Payton)...I'm not even going to bother.

Emulating this stuff is next to goddamn impossible...and none of the teams(unless you wanna consider Dallas?) followed the Sixers method. Not a single one. You know who followed the Sixers method? The Kings, the Clippers, and the NETS. Sucking every year doesn't mean you're gonna build jack ****.

LOL. There you go bringing up the Sixers. I have told you a thousand times that I don't want to do what the Sixers are doing. Why don't you get it? How many times do I have to tell you the exact same thing before you understand. Do you want me to come to your **** house and do a little dance for you?

All of those teams sans the Pistons drafted a superstar and built around him. So if thats what they did, then I think thats what we should try to do.

Your alternative is to stick with Thad and Lopez, hope that some second tier free agent like Mike Conely comes here. And somehow we get vaulted into contending status without any superstar players.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Do they have any chance of winning an NBA championship? Overachieving in one of the worst Eastern Conferences ever does not make you a contender.

You can aim for being the Atlanta Hawks. Winning 60 games and getting eviscerated like little boys in the ECF is not impressive to me. They're honestly lucky Wall wasn't there to beat them in the the 2nd round. And that PP's buzzer beater didn't count.

They even had some trouble with the joke of a team we have. LOL.

They got the East Finals, were decimated by injuries and lost to a team that has the best player on the planet...there's no shame in that. Trying to put an asterisk about how they got their is pretty weak too, would you put an asterisk next to the Warriors' championship because they beat a decimated Cavs team? Come on. Winning 60 games in the NBA is winning 60 games, doesn't matter the conference especially since they were pounding West teams too all season long. It's amazing to sit here and read a fan of a team that has only won more than 50 games ONCE in its 38 years in the NBA just scoff that kind of season off.

Does anyone have a chance in the East winning a championship with Lebron James in this conference?

Do you think that guys like that grow on trees? You seem to think so the way you're carrying on with this stuff.

That's the thing. Hawks were in a position to win. Say if the injury happened to LeBron instead of Kevin Love, the Hawks could have made the Finals. Hawks also went 1-1 against the Warriors this year so who knows what could have happened. The same thing happened to the Warriors on their journey there. Not to discredit their championship, but you can't deny a little luck went into getting that ring.

The only teams that have a zero percent chance of winning a championship are the ones who don't make the playoffs.

I guess we just have different perspectives on the Hawks then. I don't care how they did in the regular season. We beat the Heat 3-0 in 2014 before getting man handled in the playoffs.

All I know is based on the NBA I watch, you need a superstar player to win in 99% of cases I have watched. Hawks were not in a position to win. Not even close.

In my eyes there are 6 western conference teams better than the Hawks, that would beat them in a playoff series. I also think the Cavs AND Bulls would probably beat the Hawks in a playoff series. So to me they're not even a top 8 team in the NBA. I think they merely got lucky because they play in the eastern conference and avoided the Bulls and Cavs. Personally, I don't even think the Hawks will make it past the 2nd round next year.

And no if the Cavs had Kevin Love and Kyrie, I think they could have beaten the Hawks easily. Or the Bulls would have beaten them and the Hawks.

[MrDollarBills]

Would love to be one of those teams bro. Maybe we should emulate them.

this is ridiculous. If it was so easy to emulate those teams then there would be more than 9 teams laying claim to the title of NBA champion in the last 31 years. Let's keep it modern era, so we can start in the 90s:

Bulls: Had the greatest player of all **** ing TIME fall into their laps. HE FELL INTO THEIR LAPS. Odds of that happening to the Nets even if they TANK for 20 years STRAIGHT is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. And then, the Sonics traded them one of the sport's greatest small forwards ever in 1987 for Olden Polynice and a JUNK future pick. I'm sure Billy King can pull off that kind of stuff blindfolded, right???

Lakers: Let's see...oh, just happened to have in one summer in 1996 acquire TWO OF THE LEAGUE'S TOP 25 PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. Shaq had openly spoke about going to the Lakers in the middle of the 95-96 season, god knows how much tampering was happening there at that time. The most physically dominating player in the history of the sport just waltzes right over to them. Okay. Then...then somehow, the 2nd best SG and one of the top 3 players of the 21st century thus far just somehow plummets to the 13th pick in the draft to be drafted by the Hornets, who then trade this player to the Lakers...and by all accounts, this player's reps had threatened teams including our Nets that he wanted to play for the LAKERS. Again, in one summer they acquire two once in a life time generational talents. Chances of this kind of **** happening to the Nets within a 5-7 year period? ZERO.

Houston Rockets: Draft the most skilled center to play the sport since Abdul-Jabar, manages to acquire a top 5 SG at the time...oh yeah, and Michael Jordan is retired at this time, opening the window for someone who otherwise would have lost to win...wanna guess the odds of anything like that happening for the Nets? At least this scenario could be plausible...if you manage to land the #1 pick, and a hall of famer is waiting there for the taking. Slim to **** ing NONE.

San Antonio Spurs: They are forced to tank it due to losing their HOF center and their starting SF in a year where the greatest PF of all time is on the board, lands the #1 pick despite not having the league's worst record...then go on to draft two hall of famers in the late 1st rd and 2nd round. LOL. Yeah, good luck emulating that.

Detroit Pistons: Builds a talented team of B-Tier and C-Tier players, with only their starting SF as being their only draftee, established a defensive identity and all the parts clicked and for a good period were a team that no one wanted to play because of the grinding style of play, the brute force inside with Rasheed and Ben Wallace, deadeye shooting and top tier leadership from Chauncey Billups, acquired possibly the best midrange jump shooter I've ever seen in Rip Hamilton, and had a HOF coach. This team was built through the method I've advocated...but chances of winning a title in this manner? SLIM as ****.

Miami Heat: Has one of the best SGs of all time/first ballot HOF fall into their laps because Joe Dumars had a hard on for Darko....and then TWICE within less than 10 years to manages to acquire SEVERAL HALL OF FAME PLAYERS via either trade(Shaq) or free agency (Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Gary Payton)...I'm not even going to bother.

Emulating this stuff is next to goddamn impossible...and none of the teams(unless you wanna consider Dallas?) followed the Sixers method. Not a single one. You know who followed the Sixers method? The Kings, the Clippers, and the NETS. Sucking every year doesn't mean you're gonna build jack ****.

LOL. There you go bringing up the Sixers. I have told you a thousand times that I don't want to do what the Sixers are doing. Why don't you get it? How many times do I have to tell you the exact same thing before you understand. Do you want me to come to your **** house and do a little dance for you?

All of those teams sans the Pistons drafted a superstar and built around him. So if thats what they did, then I think thats what we should try to do.

Your alternative is to stick with Thad and Lopez, hope that some second tier free agent like Mike Conely comes here. And somehow we get vaulted into contending status without any superstar players.

How many years are you willing to squander away waiting to do what those teams did? You act like all it takes is one or two tank jobs and we'll have the next Michael Jordan wearing black and white.

[MrDollarBills]

They got the East Finals, were decimated by injuries and lost to a team that has the best player on the planet...there's no shame in that. Trying to put an asterisk about how they got their is pretty weak too, would you put an asterisk next to the Warriors' championship because they beat a decimated Cavs team? Come on. Winning 60 games in the NBA is winning 60 games, doesn't matter the conference especially since they were pounding West teams too all season long. It's amazing to sit here and read a fan of a team that has only won more than 50 games ONCE in its 38 years in the NBA just scoff that kind of season off.

Does anyone have a chance in the East winning a championship with Lebron James in this conference?

Do you think that guys like that grow on trees? You seem to think so the way you're carrying on with this stuff.

That's the thing. Hawks were in a position to win. Say if the injury happened to LeBron instead of Kevin Love, the Hawks could have made the Finals. Hawks also went 1-1 against the Warriors this year so who knows what could have happened. The same thing happened to the Warriors on their journey there. Not to discredit their championship, but you can't deny a little luck went into getting that ring.

The only teams that have a zero percent chance of winning a championship are the ones who don't make the playoffs.

I guess we just have different perspectives on the Hawks then. I don't care how they did in the regular season. We beat the Heat 3-0 in 2014 before getting man handled in the playoffs.

All I know is based on the NBA I watch, you need a superstar player to win in 99% of cases I have watched. Hawks were not in a position to win. Not even close.

In my eyes there are 6 western conference teams better than the Hawks, that would beat them in a playoff series. I also think the Cavs AND Bulls would probably beat the Hawks in a playoff series. So to me they're not even a top 8 team in the NBA. I think they merely got lucky because they play in the eastern conference and avoided the Bulls and Cavs. Personally, I don't even think the Hawks will make it past the 2nd round next year.

And no if the Cavs had Kevin Love and Kyrie, I think they could have beaten the Hawks easily. Or the Bulls would have beaten them and the Hawks.

LOL @ a 60 win team not being in the top 8. Who outside of Golden State, Houston, Memphis, Clippers, and the Spurs can you remotely argue is better than Atlanta in the West???

I love how stuff like winning 60 games, getting to the conf finals, and drafting hall of famers is a piece of cake to you.

[Net Sentence]

Having a top 5-8 player in their prime is what wins championships. We might already have that player on the team in Lopez. IMO, Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan have been the best true bigs in the NBA over the last decade. Dirk and KG dont qualify since they were/are perimeter players on offense. Both Gasol and Duncan were bigs you could run your offense through and give the ball to in the 4th quarter in a close game. This is what separates a franchise level big from the Dwights, Noahs and DeAndres of the NBA.

Even in his comeback from injury, Lopez was arguably the best big in the NBA last season. The only other big who can score on Lopez's level is Cousins who does so at the teams expense, 34.1% Usage rate, 16.3% TO rate compared to Lopez's 26.3% Usage rate and 8.6% TO rate. Cousins is also one dimensional in his scoring. He does most of his scoring at the rim. When you look at their FG% from each level you will see Cousins is not in Lopez's class. Im going to include Marc Gasol's numbers also because these are the top 3 bigs going into the next 4-6 years IMO.

0-3 feet
Lopez 66.2% FG (30.9% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 63.3% FG (41.9% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 69.9% FG (23.9% of Gasol's shots)

3-10 feet
Lopez 45.8% FG (34% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 31.8% FG (25.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 46.9% FG (28.3% of Gasol's shots)

10-16 feet
Lopez 47% FG (15.3% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 34.9% FG (7.8% of Lopez's shots)
Marc Gasol 43% FG (22.1% of Gasol's shots)

16 feet to just inside 3
Lopez 42.2% FG (18.7% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 38.3% FG (23.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 40.2% FG (24.2% of Gasol's shots)

As you can see Marc Gasol is probably the only other center in the argument for best center other then Lopez.

The thing that can change the perception of how Lopez is viewed in the NBA is adding the 3 pointer to his arsenal this year. I see no reason why he wouldnt be successful shooting 3s. He has always been a good shooter at every other level so expecting him to shoot at least 34% doesnt seem out of the question. Having him stay out on the perimeter is a good way to get Lopez extra minutes without tiring him out. The addition of Bargnani TRob and Reed lead me to believe this will be a big part of the offense this year. Bargnani doesnt have Lopez's inside game but he is very good on 3 pointers and mid range shots. Reed and TRob can both hit the offensive glass with our bigs out on the perimeter. With the anticipation of the Nets running more PnR and a bigger push on the analytics this year I can see Lopez turning one or two of those long 2s into 3s.

The other thing that can raise Lopez's stock is the changes we will likely see on defense. This is the first time we have surrounded Lopez with rangy defenders who can wreak havoc in the passing lanes and cover the PnR. Thad has already proven he is one of the best players in the NBA at getting steals despite playing PF. I fully expect RHJ to also be a beast at forcing TOs. This should funnel more plays inside where Lopez can be a presence with his shot blocking. I can easily see him getting 3 blocks a game this year.

If Lopez is a 24 pts / 9 reb / 2.5-3 blocks a game player wouldnt that make him a top 10 player?

[Hello Brooklyn]

this is ridiculous. If it was so easy to emulate those teams then there would be more than 9 teams laying claim to the title of NBA champion in the last 31 years. Let's keep it modern era, so we can start in the 90s:

Bulls: Had the greatest player of all **** ing TIME fall into their laps. HE FELL INTO THEIR LAPS. Odds of that happening to the Nets even if they TANK for 20 years STRAIGHT is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. And then, the Sonics traded them one of the sport's greatest small forwards ever in 1987 for Olden Polynice and a JUNK future pick. I'm sure Billy King can pull off that kind of stuff blindfolded, right???

Lakers: Let's see...oh, just happened to have in one summer in 1996 acquire TWO OF THE LEAGUE'S TOP 25 PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. Shaq had openly spoke about going to the Lakers in the middle of the 95-96 season, god knows how much tampering was happening there at that time. The most physically dominating player in the history of the sport just waltzes right over to them. Okay. Then...then somehow, the 2nd best SG and one of the top 3 players of the 21st century thus far just somehow plummets to the 13th pick in the draft to be drafted by the Hornets, who then trade this player to the Lakers...and by all accounts, this player's reps had threatened teams including our Nets that he wanted to play for the LAKERS. Again, in one summer they acquire two once in a life time generational talents. Chances of this kind of **** happening to the Nets within a 5-7 year period? ZERO.

Houston Rockets: Draft the most skilled center to play the sport since Abdul-Jabar, manages to acquire a top 5 SG at the time...oh yeah, and Michael Jordan is retired at this time, opening the window for someone who otherwise would have lost to win...wanna guess the odds of anything like that happening for the Nets? At least this scenario could be plausible...if you manage to land the #1 pick, and a hall of famer is waiting there for the taking. Slim to **** ing NONE.

San Antonio Spurs: They are forced to tank it due to losing their HOF center and their starting SF in a year where the greatest PF of all time is on the board, lands the #1 pick despite not having the league's worst record...then go on to draft two hall of famers in the late 1st rd and 2nd round. LOL. Yeah, good luck emulating that.

Detroit Pistons: Builds a talented team of B-Tier and C-Tier players, with only their starting SF as being their only draftee, established a defensive identity and all the parts clicked and for a good period were a team that no one wanted to play because of the grinding style of play, the brute force inside with Rasheed and Ben Wallace, deadeye shooting and top tier leadership from Chauncey Billups, acquired possibly the best midrange jump shooter I've ever seen in Rip Hamilton, and had a HOF coach. This team was built through the method I've advocated...but chances of winning a title in this manner? SLIM as ****.

Miami Heat: Has one of the best SGs of all time/first ballot HOF fall into their laps because Joe Dumars had a hard on for Darko....and then TWICE within less than 10 years to manages to acquire SEVERAL HALL OF FAME PLAYERS via either trade(Shaq) or free agency (Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Gary Payton)...I'm not even going to bother.

Emulating this stuff is next to goddamn impossible...and none of the teams(unless you wanna consider Dallas?) followed the Sixers method. Not a single one. You know who followed the Sixers method? The Kings, the Clippers, and the NETS. Sucking every year doesn't mean you're gonna build jack ****.

LOL. There you go bringing up the Sixers. I have told you a thousand times that I don't want to do what the Sixers are doing. Why don't you get it? How many times do I have to tell you the exact same thing before you understand. Do you want me to come to your **** house and do a little dance for you?

All of those teams sans the Pistons drafted a superstar and built around him. So if thats what they did, then I think thats what we should try to do.

Your alternative is to stick with Thad and Lopez, hope that some second tier free agent like Mike Conely comes here. And somehow we get vaulted into contending status without any superstar players.

How many years are you willing to squander away waiting to do what those teams did? You act like all it takes is one or two tank jobs and we'll have the next Michael Jordan wearing black and white.

IDK what you mean by willing to wait. I'm willing to rebuild through the draft because it has a chance of working. What youre advocating has NO CHANCE or working. Why is it even a debate?

[Hello Brooklyn]

That's the thing. Hawks were in a position to win. Say if the injury happened to LeBron instead of Kevin Love, the Hawks could have made the Finals. Hawks also went 1-1 against the Warriors this year so who knows what could have happened. The same thing happened to the Warriors on their journey there. Not to discredit their championship, but you can't deny a little luck went into getting that ring.

The only teams that have a zero percent chance of winning a championship are the ones who don't make the playoffs.

I guess we just have different perspectives on the Hawks then. I don't care how they did in the regular season. We beat the Heat 3-0 in 2014 before getting man handled in the playoffs.

All I know is based on the NBA I watch, you need a superstar player to win in 99% of cases I have watched. Hawks were not in a position to win. Not even close.

In my eyes there are 6 western conference teams better than the Hawks, that would beat them in a playoff series. I also think the Cavs AND Bulls would probably beat the Hawks in a playoff series. So to me they're not even a top 8 team in the NBA. I think they merely got lucky because they play in the eastern conference and avoided the Bulls and Cavs. Personally, I don't even think the Hawks will make it past the 2nd round next year.

And no if the Cavs had Kevin Love and Kyrie, I think they could have beaten the Hawks easily. Or the Bulls would have beaten them and the Hawks.

LOL @ a 60 win team not being in the top 8. Who outside of Golden State, Houston, Memphis, Clippers, and the Spurs can you remotely argue is better than Atlanta in the West???

I love how stuff like winning 60 games, getting to the conf finals, and drafting hall of famers is a piece of cake to you.

Golden State
Houston
Memphis
Clippers
Spurs
Portland (last year I mean)
Cleveland
Chicago

Yea, they could all beat Atlanta in a 7 game series. I also think Washington would beat them if they had Wall.

Winning 60 games is not a piece of cake, but it doesn't make you a title contender. And if they were they wouldn't have been embarrassed vs the Cavs like they did. They couldn't win one game. What a joke.

And no getting a hall of famer isnt easy. But its the only way were gonna win a championship. And I'd rather take a chance on doing something hard to rather than having no chance and do what you wanna do.

[lkitt0804]

Having a top 5-8 player in their prime is what wins championships. We might already have that player on the team in Lopez. IMO, Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan have been the best true bigs in the NBA over the last decade. Dirk and KG dont qualify since they were/are perimeter players on offense. Both Gasol and Duncan were bigs you could run your offense through and give the ball to in the 4th quarter in a close game. This is what separates a franchise level big from the Dwights, Noahs and DeAndres of the NBA.

Even in his comeback from injury, Lopez was arguably the best big in the NBA last season. The only other big who can score on Lopez's level is Cousins who does so at the teams expense, 34.1% Usage rate, 16.3% TO rate compared to Lopez's 26.3% Usage rate and 8.6% TO rate. Cousins is also one dimensional in his scoring. He does most of his scoring at the rim. When you look at their FG% from each level you will see Cousins is not in Lopez's class. Im going to include Marc Gasol's numbers also because these are the top 3 bigs going into the next 4-6 years IMO.

0-3 feet
Lopez 66.2% FG (30.9% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 63.3% FG (41.9% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 69.9% FG (23.9% of Gasol's shots)

3-10 feet
Lopez 45.8% FG (34% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 31.8% FG (25.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 46.9% FG (28.3% of Gasol's shots)

10-16 feet
Lopez 47% FG (15.3% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 34.9% FG (7.8% of Lopez's shots)
Marc Gasol 43% FG (22.1% of Gasol's shots)

16 feet to just inside 3
Lopez 42.2% FG (18.7% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 38.3% FG (23.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 40.2% FG (24.2% of Gasol's shots)

As you can see Marc Gasol is probably the only other center in the argument for best center other then Lopez.

The thing that can change the perception of how Lopez is viewed in the NBA is adding the 3 pointer to his arsenal this year. I see no reason why he wouldnt be successful shooting 3s. He has always been a good shooter at every other level so expecting him to shoot at least 34% doesnt seem out of the question. Having him stay out on the perimeter is a good way to get Lopez extra minutes without tiring him out. The addition of Bargnani TRob and Reed lead me to believe this will be a big part of the offense this year. Bargnani doesnt have Lopez's inside game but he is very good on 3 pointers and mid range shots. Reed and TRob can both hit the offensive glass with our bigs out on the perimeter. With the anticipation of the Nets running more PnR and a bigger push on the analytics this year I can see Lopez turning one or two of those long 2s into 3s.

The other thing that can raise Lopez's stock is the changes we will likely see on defense. This is the first time we have surrounded Lopez with rangy defenders who can wreak havoc in the passing lanes and cover the PnR. Thad has already proven he is one of the best players in the NBA at getting steals despite playing PF. I fully expect RHJ to also be a beast at forcing TOs. This should funnel more plays inside where Lopez can be a presence with his shot blocking. I can easily see him getting 3 blocks a game this year.

If Lopez is a 24 pts / 9 reb / 2.5-3 blocks a game player wouldnt that make him a top 10 player?

I don't think we can say Brook is a top 10 player yet. He just doesn't seem to have that nasty side that comes out in some of these other players during crunch time. He has all the tools to become that player I think but it's mental right now. Hopefully Hollins can piss him off enough and he gets a different mind set. Also I think we would be a lot better off if Brook doesn't shoot outside of 18 feet. I think in the paint is where he is most effective for us.

As far as how we should rebuild I think we need to get lucky with these late first rounders and sign a few all star level players. So it's going to have to be a combination of both.

[jbeachboy]

Having a top 5-8 player in their prime is what wins championships. We might already have that player on the team in Lopez. IMO, Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan have been the best true bigs in the NBA over the last decade. Dirk and KG dont qualify since they were/are perimeter players on offense. Both Gasol and Duncan were bigs you could run your offense through and give the ball to in the 4th quarter in a close game. This is what separates a franchise level big from the Dwights, Noahs and DeAndres of the NBA.

Even in his comeback from injury, Lopez was arguably the best big in the NBA last season. The only other big who can score on Lopez's level is Cousins who does so at the teams expense, 34.1% Usage rate, 16.3% TO rate compared to Lopez's 26.3% Usage rate and 8.6% TO rate. Cousins is also one dimensional in his scoring. He does most of his scoring at the rim. When you look at their FG% from each level you will see Cousins is not in Lopez's class. Im going to include Marc Gasol's numbers also because these are the top 3 bigs going into the next 4-6 years IMO.

0-3 feet
Lopez 66.2% FG (30.9% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 63.3% FG (41.9% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 69.9% FG (23.9% of Gasol's shots)

3-10 feet
Lopez 45.8% FG (34% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 31.8% FG (25.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 46.9% FG (28.3% of Gasol's shots)

10-16 feet
Lopez 47% FG (15.3% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 34.9% FG (7.8% of Lopez's shots)
Marc Gasol 43% FG (22.1% of Gasol's shots)

16 feet to just inside 3
Lopez 42.2% FG (18.7% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 38.3% FG (23.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 40.2% FG (24.2% of Gasol's shots)

As you can see Marc Gasol is probably the only other center in the argument for best center other then Lopez.

The thing that can change the perception of how Lopez is viewed in the NBA is adding the 3 pointer to his arsenal this year. I see no reason why he wouldnt be successful shooting 3s. He has always been a good shooter at every other level so expecting him to shoot at least 34% doesnt seem out of the question. Having him stay out on the perimeter is a good way to get Lopez extra minutes without tiring him out. The addition of Bargnani TRob and Reed lead me to believe this will be a big part of the offense this year. Bargnani doesnt have Lopez's inside game but he is very good on 3 pointers and mid range shots. Reed and TRob can both hit the offensive glass with our bigs out on the perimeter. With the anticipation of the Nets running more PnR and a bigger push on the analytics this year I can see Lopez turning one or two of those long 2s into 3s.

The other thing that can raise Lopez's stock is the changes we will likely see on defense. This is the first time we have surrounded Lopez with rangy defenders who can wreak havoc in the passing lanes and cover the PnR. Thad has already proven he is one of the best players in the NBA at getting steals despite playing PF. I fully expect RHJ to also be a beast at forcing TOs. This should funnel more plays inside where Lopez can be a presence with his shot blocking. I can easily see him getting 3 blocks a game this year.

If Lopez is a 24 pts / 9 reb / 2.5-3 blocks a game player wouldnt that make him a top 10 player?

I don't think we can say Brook is a top 10 player yet. He just doesn't seem to have that nasty side that comes out in some of these other players during crunch time. He has all the tools to become that player I think but it's mental right now. Hopefully Hollins can piss him off enough and he gets a different mind set. Also I think we would be a lot better off if Brook doesn't shoot outside of 18 feet. I think in the paint is where he is most effective for us.

As far as how we should rebuild I think we need to get lucky with these late first rounders and sign a few all star level players. So it's going to have to be a combination of both.

what is trob and willie reed offensive game, trob looked like he had a real developed offensive game in college, willie reed looked much improved in summer league with new moves

[Hello Brooklyn]

Having a top 5-8 player in their prime is what wins championships. We might already have that player on the team in Lopez. IMO, Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan have been the best true bigs in the NBA over the last decade. Dirk and KG dont qualify since they were/are perimeter players on offense. Both Gasol and Duncan were bigs you could run your offense through and give the ball to in the 4th quarter in a close game. This is what separates a franchise level big from the Dwights, Noahs and DeAndres of the NBA.

Even in his comeback from injury, Lopez was arguably the best big in the NBA last season. The only other big who can score on Lopez's level is Cousins who does so at the teams expense, 34.1% Usage rate, 16.3% TO rate compared to Lopez's 26.3% Usage rate and 8.6% TO rate. Cousins is also one dimensional in his scoring. He does most of his scoring at the rim. When you look at their FG% from each level you will see Cousins is not in Lopez's class. Im going to include Marc Gasol's numbers also because these are the top 3 bigs going into the next 4-6 years IMO.

0-3 feet
Lopez 66.2% FG (30.9% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 63.3% FG (41.9% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 69.9% FG (23.9% of Gasol's shots)

3-10 feet
Lopez 45.8% FG (34% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 31.8% FG (25.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 46.9% FG (28.3% of Gasol's shots)

10-16 feet
Lopez 47% FG (15.3% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 34.9% FG (7.8% of Lopez's shots)
Marc Gasol 43% FG (22.1% of Gasol's shots)

16 feet to just inside 3
Lopez 42.2% FG (18.7% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 38.3% FG (23.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 40.2% FG (24.2% of Gasol's shots)

As you can see Marc Gasol is probably the only other center in the argument for best center other then Lopez.

The thing that can change the perception of how Lopez is viewed in the NBA is adding the 3 pointer to his arsenal this year. I see no reason why he wouldnt be successful shooting 3s. He has always been a good shooter at every other level so expecting him to shoot at least 34% doesnt seem out of the question. Having him stay out on the perimeter is a good way to get Lopez extra minutes without tiring him out. The addition of Bargnani TRob and Reed lead me to believe this will be a big part of the offense this year. Bargnani doesnt have Lopez's inside game but he is very good on 3 pointers and mid range shots. Reed and TRob can both hit the offensive glass with our bigs out on the perimeter. With the anticipation of the Nets running more PnR and a bigger push on the analytics this year I can see Lopez turning one or two of those long 2s into 3s.

The other thing that can raise Lopez's stock is the changes we will likely see on defense. This is the first time we have surrounded Lopez with rangy defenders who can wreak havoc in the passing lanes and cover the PnR. Thad has already proven he is one of the best players in the NBA at getting steals despite playing PF. I fully expect RHJ to also be a beast at forcing TOs. This should funnel more plays inside where Lopez can be a presence with his shot blocking. I can easily see him getting 3 blocks a game this year.

If Lopez is a 24 pts / 9 reb / 2.5-3 blocks a game player wouldnt that make him a top 10 player?

LOL I stopped reading there.

Youre delusional bro. I love Lopez. But hes probably not even a top 5 Center, let alone NBA player. And he can't stay healthy.

[MrDollarBills]

LOL. There you go bringing up the Sixers. I have told you a thousand times that I don't want to do what the Sixers are doing. Why don't you get it? How many times do I have to tell you the exact same thing before you understand. Do you want me to come to your **** house and do a little dance for you?

All of those teams sans the Pistons drafted a superstar and built around him. So if thats what they did, then I think thats what we should try to do.

Your alternative is to stick with Thad and Lopez, hope that some second tier free agent like Mike Conely comes here. And somehow we get vaulted into contending status without any superstar players.

How many years are you willing to squander away waiting to do what those teams did? You act like all it takes is one or two tank jobs and we'll have the next Michael Jordan wearing black and white.

IDK what you mean by willing to wait. I'm willing to rebuild through the draft because it has a chance of working. What youre advocating has NO CHANCE or working. Why is it even a debate?

I love how you say what I wanna do has no chance of working, yet you're convinced that a HOF will fall into the Nets laps with a decade of tanking. Agree to disagree.

[Hello Brooklyn]

No I'm not convinced that it will happen. I'd rather take a chance than no chance. To me that just common sense.

[MrDollarBills]

It's not common sense, its a flawed strategy with slim %'s of working.

[Universe]

They got the East Finals, were decimated by injuries and lost to a team that has the best player on the planet...there's no shame in that. Trying to put an asterisk about how they got their is pretty weak too, would you put an asterisk next to the Warriors' championship because they beat a decimated Cavs team? Come on. Winning 60 games in the NBA is winning 60 games, doesn't matter the conference especially since they were pounding West teams too all season long. It's amazing to sit here and read a fan of a team that has only won more than 50 games ONCE in its 38 years in the NBA just scoff that kind of season off.

Does anyone have a chance in the East winning a championship with Lebron James in this conference?

Do you think that guys like that grow on trees? You seem to think so the way you're carrying on with this stuff.

That's the thing. Hawks were in a position to win. Say if the injury happened to LeBron instead of Kevin Love, the Hawks could have made the Finals. Hawks also went 1-1 against the Warriors this year so who knows what could have happened. The same thing happened to the Warriors on their journey there. Not to discredit their championship, but you can't deny a little luck went into getting that ring.

The only teams that have a zero percent chance of winning a championship are the ones who don't make the playoffs.

I guess we just have different perspectives on the Hawks then. I don't care how they did in the regular season. We beat the Heat 3-0 in 2014 before getting man handled in the playoffs.

All I know is based on the NBA I watch, you need a superstar player to win in 99% of cases I have watched. Hawks were not in a position to win. Not even close.

In my eyes there are 6 western conference teams better than the Hawks, that would beat them in a playoff series. I also think the Cavs AND Bulls would probably beat the Hawks in a playoff series. So to me they're not even a top 8 team in the NBA. I think they merely got lucky because they play in the eastern conference and avoided the Bulls and Cavs. Personally, I don't even think the Hawks will make it past the 2nd round next year.

And no if the Cavs had Kevin Love and Kyrie, I think they could have beaten the Hawks easily. Or the Bulls would have beaten them and the Hawks.

And the chances of us getting a superstar are probably around 00.7% so both ways look great. Plus, you are severely underrating LeBron James if you think the Cavs would have done anything without him.

[Net Sentence]

Having a top 5-8 player in their prime is what wins championships. We might already have that player on the team in Lopez. IMO, Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan have been the best true bigs in the NBA over the last decade. Dirk and KG dont qualify since they were/are perimeter players on offense. Both Gasol and Duncan were bigs you could run your offense through and give the ball to in the 4th quarter in a close game. This is what separates a franchise level big from the Dwights, Noahs and DeAndres of the NBA.

Even in his comeback from injury, Lopez was arguably the best big in the NBA last season. The only other big who can score on Lopez's level is Cousins who does so at the teams expense, 34.1% Usage rate, 16.3% TO rate compared to Lopez's 26.3% Usage rate and 8.6% TO rate. Cousins is also one dimensional in his scoring. He does most of his scoring at the rim. When you look at their FG% from each level you will see Cousins is not in Lopez's class. Im going to include Marc Gasol's numbers also because these are the top 3 bigs going into the next 4-6 years IMO.

0-3 feet
Lopez 66.2% FG (30.9% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 63.3% FG (41.9% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 69.9% FG (23.9% of Gasol's shots)

3-10 feet
Lopez 45.8% FG (34% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 31.8% FG (25.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 46.9% FG (28.3% of Gasol's shots)

10-16 feet
Lopez 47% FG (15.3% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 34.9% FG (7.8% of Lopez's shots)
Marc Gasol 43% FG (22.1% of Gasol's shots)

16 feet to just inside 3
Lopez 42.2% FG (18.7% of Lopez's shots)
Cousins 38.3% FG (23.7% of Cousin's shots)
Marc Gasol 40.2% FG (24.2% of Gasol's shots)

As you can see Marc Gasol is probably the only other center in the argument for best center other then Lopez.

The thing that can change the perception of how Lopez is viewed in the NBA is adding the 3 pointer to his arsenal this year. I see no reason why he wouldnt be successful shooting 3s. He has always been a good shooter at every other level so expecting him to shoot at least 34% doesnt seem out of the question. Having him stay out on the perimeter is a good way to get Lopez extra minutes without tiring him out. The addition of Bargnani TRob and Reed lead me to believe this will be a big part of the offense this year. Bargnani doesnt have Lopez's inside game but he is very good on 3 pointers and mid range shots. Reed and TRob can both hit the offensive glass with our bigs out on the perimeter. With the anticipation of the Nets running more PnR and a bigger push on the analytics this year I can see Lopez turning one or two of those long 2s into 3s.

The other thing that can raise Lopez's stock is the changes we will likely see on defense. This is the first time we have surrounded Lopez with rangy defenders who can wreak havoc in the passing lanes and cover the PnR. Thad has already proven he is one of the best players in the NBA at getting steals despite playing PF. I fully expect RHJ to also be a beast at forcing TOs. This should funnel more plays inside where Lopez can be a presence with his shot blocking. I can easily see him getting 3 blocks a game this year.

If Lopez is a 24 pts / 9 reb / 2.5-3 blocks a game player wouldnt that make him a top 10 player?

LOL I stopped reading there.

Youre delusional bro. I love Lopez. But hes probably not even a top 5 Center, let alone NBA player. And he can't stay healthy.

No offense, I stopped reading your post a couple of pages ago.

Lopez isnt a top 5 center now?