Around the NBA, 2016-17 Season thread

[Sleepyazn]

what is lazy about it? we have bottom 3 talent, will have to integreat 3 or 4 new starters and 5-6 new rotation players and like last year dont have the depth to sustain injury to a starter.

we might suprise, but this is still a sun 30 win team on paper right now. and dpending how bad injuries hit (and they hit everyone to some degree) we could be a sub 25 win team.

I think you're entitled to your view but it's on the pessimistic side.

Last season, ESPN's final season prediction was 29 wins. The average prediction from my prediction thread in the Nets board was about 29 wins. If we extrapolate the Nets' winning percentage (.378) when Lin played over 82 games, it'd give us 31 wins.

For 2017-18, ESPN's "early" season prediction is 30 wins. The average prediction from the Nets board is 33 wins (and would be higher if not for KSwiss's trollish low win prediction). So arguably, on paper, we're a 30+ win team, not a sub-30 win team. You are definitely on the pessimistic side of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that.

We have better depth this year than last. Last year, we had Scola, Bennett, rookie Whitehead, Dinwiddie, rookie/coming off injury Levert, Vasquez. This year, Booker and Levert are bench players, and Skil will be strictly bench, and Whitehead and Dinwiddie have another year of experience. We can sustain an injury to any player though it'll hurt big if we lose Mozgov or Lin.

On paper we're a low 30 wins team, and if things gel, we're going to contend for the playoffs.

Were not a 30+ win team on paper. and while kwsiss total is trolling, the 40+ win predictions are equally as delusional as his.

We are deeper then last year, but that doesnt say much. we still lack starting calibur talent. we have like 2 legit nba starter and really have 4-6 guys who are better suited as 6th men then starters. we still lack 2 way players.

there arent more then 2 or 3 teams that have as little talent as we have. being better then last yeats 20 win team doesnt say much.

this is a sub 30 win team on paper who if overachieve couls suprise at 32-34 wins

I would argue we have 4 NBA level starters. Lin, DLo, Carrol, and Mosgod. We got some good backups and this team hungry. Honestly if we could bomb 3's, I could see some lucky wins here and there. Plus no incentive to tank and we might have a year like the Suns or early Rockets where they outperform expectations by alot. Really depends if Dlo can take a massive leap in his 3rd year.

[Prokorov]

I think you're entitled to your view but it's on the pessimistic side.

Last season, ESPN's final season prediction was 29 wins. The average prediction from my prediction thread in the Nets board was about 29 wins. If we extrapolate the Nets' winning percentage (.378) when Lin played over 82 games, it'd give us 31 wins.

For 2017-18, ESPN's "early" season prediction is 30 wins. The average prediction from the Nets board is 33 wins (and would be higher if not for KSwiss's trollish low win prediction). So arguably, on paper, we're a 30+ win team, not a sub-30 win team. You are definitely on the pessimistic side of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that.

We have better depth this year than last. Last year, we had Scola, Bennett, rookie Whitehead, Dinwiddie, rookie/coming off injury Levert, Vasquez. This year, Booker and Levert are bench players, and Skil will be strictly bench, and Whitehead and Dinwiddie have another year of experience. We can sustain an injury to any player though it'll hurt big if we lose Mozgov or Lin.

On paper we're a low 30 wins team, and if things gel, we're going to contend for the playoffs.

Were not a 30+ win team on paper. and while kwsiss total is trolling, the 40+ win predictions are equally as delusional as his.

We are deeper then last year, but that doesnt say much. we still lack starting calibur talent. we have like 2 legit nba starter and really have 4-6 guys who are better suited as 6th men then starters. we still lack 2 way players.

there arent more then 2 or 3 teams that have as little talent as we have. being better then last yeats 20 win team doesnt say much.

this is a sub 30 win team on paper who if overachieve couls suprise at 32-34 wins

I would argue we have 4 NBA level starters. Lin, DLo, Carrol, and Mosgod. We got some good backups and this team hungry. Honestly if we could bomb 3's, I could see some lucky wins here and there. Plus no incentive to tank and we might have a year like the Suns or early Rockets where they outperform expectations by alot. Really depends if Dlo can take a massive leap in his 3rd year.

Dlo is the wildcard... if he can ahve a harden like brealout we can win mid 30's.

lin carroll, mozgov... they have all started... but are really more fringe starters/5th starter/6th man types. not gusy who carry the load for you ever night

[Paradise]

Were not a 30+ win team on paper. and while kwsiss total is trolling, the 40+ win predictions are equally as delusional as his.

We are deeper then last year, but that doesnt say much. we still lack starting calibur talent. we have like 2 legit nba starter and really have 4-6 guys who are better suited as 6th men then starters. we still lack 2 way players.

there arent more then 2 or 3 teams that have as little talent as we have. being better then last yeats 20 win team doesnt say much.

this is a sub 30 win team on paper who if overachieve couls suprise at 32-34 wins

I would argue we have 4 NBA level starters. Lin, DLo, Carrol, and Mosgod. We got some good backups and this team hungry. Honestly if we could bomb 3's, I could see some lucky wins here and there. Plus no incentive to tank and we might have a year like the Suns or early Rockets where they outperform expectations by alot. Really depends if Dlo can take a massive leap in his 3rd year.

Dlo is the wildcard... if he can ahve a harden like brealout we can win mid 30's.

lin carroll, mozgov... they have all started... but are really more fringe starters/5th starter/6th man types. not gusy who carry the load for you ever night

It's not like the Raptors had any better luck when they acquired Patterson, Vasquez, Hayes, Salmons. You those were fringe starters, backups back then and their team all mindset helped upstart the chemistry between Lowry, who was certainly around Lin's level then. A young Derozan, Ross and JV.

Guys like Carroll, Moz, Lin won't ball out scoring the ball on a nightly basis but they play team ball and are capable of playing off each other. Also, more defensive possessions.


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[Aussienet3]

I'm not saying it's a slight. I'm saying these 80-90% of folks don't know the Nets like the Nets fans who watched 82 games of Brooklyn ball last year. And if I'm betting money, I'm gonna trust my instincts after watching the Nets last year rather than the jackoffs who think the Nets pick will give Bagley to the Cavs.

It's Just laziness by the so called experts to predict another terrible season from us.

what is lazy about it? we have bottom 3 talent, will have to integreat 3 or 4 new starters and 5-6 new rotation players and like last year dont have the depth to sustain injury to a starter.

we might suprise, but this is still a sun 30 win team on paper right now. and dpending how bad injuries hit (and they hit everyone to some degree) we could be a sub 25 win team.

It's just easy for them to say we will suck again this season. Just as you went on the negative part (you still made the effort to put your case forward) these 'experts' just look at our last seasons record. Know for a fact we don't have our pick next year. So they just assume we will be crappy next year. Thats what is lazy about it. There are a lot of intangibles that went into our bad season last year. There are a lot of intangibles that go into our season this year.

I think the players we have gotten this off season are all purposely chosen for our system. Are they the best for our system? No. But they where the best available. I don't see them having anywhere near as much trouble fitting in/integrating as you do.

By the way. I think we are on the same page with the Nets not giving the Cavs the number 1 pick. I just happen to think it may not even be a top 10 pick if teams sleep on us or 'mail it in'. Not saying its going to happen 100%. I believe it's a possibility.

[Paradise]

The problem I have with it is nobody factors in good health, internal growth or mid-season deals.

I can understand the hesitation to think we could grow and develop two legit prospects prior to the Lopez deal but we seriously have Russell, LeVert, Allen all with legitimate upside and most folks choose to ignore it to further a narrative.



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[ChokeFasncists]

Were not a 30+ win team on paper. and while kwsiss total is trolling, the 40+ win predictions are equally as delusional as his.

We are deeper then last year, but that doesnt say much. we still lack starting calibur talent. we have like 2 legit nba starter and really have 4-6 guys who are better suited as 6th men then starters. we still lack 2 way players.

there arent more then 2 or 3 teams that have as little talent as we have. being better then last yeats 20 win team doesnt say much.

this is a sub 30 win team on paper who if overachieve couls suprise at 32-34 wins

I would argue we have 4 NBA level starters. Lin, DLo, Carrol, and Mosgod. We got some good backups and this team hungry. Honestly if we could bomb 3's, I could see some lucky wins here and there. Plus no incentive to tank and we might have a year like the Suns or early Rockets where they outperform expectations by alot. Really depends if Dlo can take a massive leap in his 3rd year.

Dlo is the wildcard... if he can ahve a harden like brealout we can win mid 30's.

lin carroll, mozgov... they have all started... but are really more fringe starters/5th starter/6th man types. not gusy who carry the load for you ever night

Sounds like you're talking about star players?

[MrDollarBills]

As I read responses to the Kyrie trade in other team threads, it seems like 80-90% of folks think that the Nets will suck and provide a top lottery pick.

There's a handful of those who think the Nets will surprise like Fratello, Haberstroh, and Panda Friend.

Can't wait for the Vegas over under to come out. Willing to put 1K on over if at 25 wins. Assuming this prop pays off, might as well throw $100 at the Nets winning the EC at 400/1 odds.

can you blame fans from other teams?

on paper they saw us finish dead last in the NBA and then trade our best player.

i think we will be better but i dont think its some slight for anyone to think we will be awful

Agreed. We follow this team closely so expecting us to be a better based off of the personnel changes and assumed improvement from the young players is reasonable. People who don't watch this team or know little will just look at last year's record and assume we are completely terrible....can't really blame them.

I think we will be a team that shocks fans of other teams. Especially those nights when we win a game we have no business winning. Like the games versus the Clippers and the Grizzlies. Last season when we beat the Knicks in MSG it was hilarious to me because the fans there were stunned with the way we were outworking their team. People just assume we've got a bunch of bums on our roster....they will be in for a rude awakening.

That being said...the talk about winning 40 games...a +20 swing in the standings...is unrealistic, and frankly unfair to the team. The same people placing outrageous expectations on this team will be trashing each and every one of the players when they can't live up to it. I think its trolling honestly to say that this team can have that kind of turnaround.

[MrDollarBills]

The problem I have with it is nobody factors in good health, internal growth or mid-season deals.

I can understand the hesitation to think we could grow and develop two legit prospects prior to the Lopez deal but we seriously have Russell, LeVert, Allen all with legitimate upside and most folks choose to ignore it to further a narrative.



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I think in 3-4 years we will be kicking serious ass. Not exaggerating either. I think we've got some serious dynamite on our hands assuming everyone maintains good health and can meet their upside expectations. Russell and LeVert could become lethal.

[Roy Tarpley]

That being said...the talk about winning 40 games...a +20 swing in the standings...is unrealistic, and frankly unfair to the team. The same people placing outrageous expectations on this team will be trashing each and every one of the players when they can't live up to it. I think its trolling honestly to say that this team can have that kind of turnaround.

40 wins is not unrealistic. It's certainly optimistic but it's not trollish level nonsense. Why?

(1) A relatively healthy team last year should have won around 30 games:

Record with Lin during first five games 2-3
Record without Lin during next 18 games 5-13
Record with Lin during his next stint back 1-6
Record without Lin during next 26 games 1-25
Record with Lin during his next stint back and RHJ at PF, and Levert getting solid minutes 11-14
Record without Lin during last game when starters sat 0-1

With Lin 14-23 (.378)
w/o Lin 6-39 (.133)

If you extrapolate a .378 win percentage over 82 games, that's 31 wins.

(2) Framed this way, a 40 win prediction is just a +10 game swing, which is entirely plausible. And if it does happen, there will be plenty of explanations for why it happened. We won't be dumbfounded, saying, "How the hell did this happen?!"

(3) The real question is whether the changes made this offseason turn the Nets from a 30 to 40 win team. This may be a tougher argument but I think we'll definitely make gains based on (1) greater depth; (2) annual development; (3) and addition of players that fit our scheme better.

If the Nets don't win 40, I won't be disappointed as long as they play up to their potential and demonstrate effort. The Nets would have to win less than, say 30, for me to be disappointed.

And every player should be up for a reasonable level of criticism if they're not hustling or playing to their potential. Also, I can guarantee you that there will be tons of hot takes. This is an online anonymous sports forum, this is to be expected, and we shouldn't take these so seriously. Someone WILL criticize RHJ at some point about an out of control drive or the fact that he has reached his peak. IMO, these can be ignored unless it becomes a pattern (i.e., multiple posters making similar posts multiple times).

[shakendfries]

That being said...the talk about winning 40 games...a +20 swing in the standings...is unrealistic, and frankly unfair to the team. The same people placing outrageous expectations on this team will be trashing each and every one of the players when they can't live up to it. I think its trolling honestly to say that this team can have that kind of turnaround.

40 wins is not unrealistic. It's certainly optimistic but it's not trollish level nonsense. Why?

(1) A relatively healthy team last year should have won around 30 games:

Record with Lin during first five games 2-3
Record without Lin during next 18 games 5-13
Record with Lin during his next stint back 1-6
Record without Lin during next 26 games 1-25
Record with Lin during his next stint back and RHJ at PF, and Levert getting solid minutes 11-14
Record without Lin during last game when starters sat 0-1

With Lin 14-23 (.378)
w/o Lin 6-39 (.133)

If you extrapolate a .378 win percentage over 82 games, that's 31 wins.

(2) Framed this way, a 40 win prediction is just a +10 game swing, which is entirely plausible. And if it does happen, there will be plenty of explanations for why it happened. We won't be dumbfounded, saying, "How the hell did this happen?!"

(3) The real question is whether the changes made this offseason turn the Nets from a 30 to 40 win team. This may be a tougher argument but I think we'll definitely make gains based on (1) greater depth; (2) annual development; (3) and addition of players that fit our scheme better.

If the Nets don't win 40, I won't be disappointed as long as they play up to their potential and demonstrate effort. The Nets would have to win less than, say 30, for me to be disappointed.

And every player should be up for a reasonable level of criticism if they're not hustling or playing to their potential. Also, I can guarantee you that there will be tons of hot takes. This is an online anonymous sports forum, this is to be expected, and we shouldn't take these so seriously. Someone WILL criticize RHJ at some point about an out of control drive or the fact that he has reached his peak. IMO, these can be ignored unless it becomes a pattern (i.e., multiple posters making similar posts multiple times).

but Jeremy Lin is gonna get tra....nvm

[Roy Tarpley]

but Jeremy Lin is gonna get tra....nvm

He very well could be. If the Nets are on pace for 28 wins, as many people seem to think, then it'd be obvious by All-Star break and the rationale for keeping Lin just isn't as robust.

[shakendfries]

but Jeremy Lin is gonna get tra....nvm

He very well could be. If the Nets are on pace for 28 wins, as many people seem to think, then it'd be obvious by All-Star break and the rationale for keeping Lin just isn't as robust.

the same could be said for the opposite. If the Nets are on pace for 35+ wins, as the optimists among us seem to think, then it'd be obvious that the rationale for keeping Lin just isn't as robust as the potential reward for moving him a la George Hill San Antonio style

(not a lin hater btw, just a pragmatist. Lin is in his prime, and deserves to be on a team that's competing for more than the marginal improvement the Nets are working towards right now)

[MrDollarBills]

That being said...the talk about winning 40 games...a +20 swing in the standings...is unrealistic, and frankly unfair to the team. The same people placing outrageous expectations on this team will be trashing each and every one of the players when they can't live up to it. I think its trolling honestly to say that this team can have that kind of turnaround.

40 wins is not unrealistic. It's certainly optimistic but it's not trollish level nonsense. Why?

(1) A relatively healthy team last year should have won around 30 games:

Record with Lin during first five games 2-3
Record without Lin during next 18 games 5-13
Record with Lin during his next stint back 1-6
Record without Lin during next 26 games 1-25
Record with Lin during his next stint back and RHJ at PF, and Levert getting solid minutes 11-14
Record without Lin during last game when starters sat 0-1

With Lin 14-23 (.378)
w/o Lin 6-39 (.133)

If you extrapolate a .378 win percentage over 82 games, that's 31 wins.

(2) Framed this way, a 40 win prediction is just a +10 game swing, which is entirely plausible. And if it does happen, there will be plenty of explanations for why it happened. We won't be dumbfounded, saying, "How the hell did this happen?!"

(3) The real question is whether the changes made this offseason turn the Nets from a 30 to 40 win team. This may be a tougher argument but I think we'll definitely make gains based on (1) greater depth; (2) annual development; (3) and addition of players that fit our scheme better.

If the Nets don't win 40, I won't be disappointed as long as they play up to their potential and demonstrate effort. The Nets would have to win less than, say 30, for me to be disappointed.

And every player should be up for a reasonable level of criticism if they're not hustling or playing to their potential. Also, I can guarantee you that there will be tons of hot takes. This is an online anonymous sports forum, this is to be expected, and we shouldn't take these so seriously. Someone WILL criticize RHJ at some point about an out of control drive or the fact that he has reached his peak. IMO, these can be ignored unless it becomes a pattern (i.e., multiple posters making similar posts multiple times).

I don't think anyone is above criticism, but what on last season wasn't criticism when you have people (not you) saying that someone should be sent to the d league so that they can "develop" or claiming that they are not cut out to play in the pros within the first 72 hrs of their NBA career.

You frame it in a decent way, but I still think a 20 game swing is still way out there. I think 32-35 wins isn't far fetched though.

Next season will be the time to talk about 40 wins imo.

[Paradise]

Read on Twitter

Larkin and Robinson reunited?


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[Ror1997]

TRob was so frustrating because he was exactly what we needed but he himself never saw his role. If he had just realized that his job on the team was rebound and score on second chances he would've been a 10&12 player next to brook. Dude thought he was Magic Johnson.

[Prokorov]

The problem I have with it is nobody factors in good health, internal growth or mid-season deals.

I can understand the hesitation to think we could grow and develop two legit prospects prior to the Lopez deal but we seriously have Russell, LeVert, Allen all with legitimate upside and most folks choose to ignore it to further a narrative.



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i think the 25-30 win prediction is assuming health. if we get hit with injuries its low 20s i would think

[tonman]

The problem I have with it is nobody factors in good health, internal growth or mid-season deals.

I can understand the hesitation to think we could grow and develop two legit prospects prior to the Lopez deal but we seriously have Russell, LeVert, Allen all with legitimate upside and most folks choose to ignore it to further a narrative.



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i think the 25-30 win prediction is assuming health. if we get hit with injuries its low 20s i would think

I am on board for this team to be a 28-32 win team. However, this was a 20 win team last year with Lin out over half the season and playing restricted minutes for some games. A 25 win total last year with a healthy Lin is easily believable. Therefore a +3 win total is not that big a leap.

People discount the loss of Lopez. If we had Lopez instead of Mozgov I'd not blink at a 40 win season especially with Indiana losing George and Atlanta dropping.

[ChokeFasncists]

The problem I have with it is nobody factors in good health, internal growth or mid-season deals.

I can understand the hesitation to think we could grow and develop two legit prospects prior to the Lopez deal but we seriously have Russell, LeVert, Allen all with legitimate upside and most folks choose to ignore it to further a narrative.



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i think the 25-30 win prediction is assuming health. if we get hit with injuries its low 20s i would think

I am on board for this team to be a 28-32 win team. However, this was a 20 win team last year with Lin out over half the season and playing restricted minutes for some games. A 25 win total last year with a healthy Lin is easily believable. Therefore a +3 win total is not that big a leap.

Losing Vasquez was huge as well

People discount the loss of Lopez. If we had Lopez instead of Mozgov I'd not blink at a 40 win season especially with Indiana losing George and Atlanta dropping.

Lets see what Moz can do, if he can hit threes, we might not have lost much.

[Paradise]

The problem I have with it is nobody factors in good health, internal growth or mid-season deals.

I can understand the hesitation to think we could grow and develop two legit prospects prior to the Lopez deal but we seriously have Russell, LeVert, Allen all with legitimate upside and most folks choose to ignore it to further a narrative.



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i think the 25-30 win prediction is assuming health. if we get hit with injuries its low 20s i would think

I am on board for this team to be a 28-32 win team. However, this was a 20 win team last year with Lin out over half the season and playing restricted minutes for some games. A 25 win total last year with a healthy Lin is easily believable. Therefore a +3 win total is not that big a leap.

People discount the loss of Lopez. If we had Lopez instead of Mozgov I'd not blink at a 40 win season especially with Indiana losing George and Atlanta dropping.

Lin missed 46 games, LeVert missed 26 games, Whitehead started 26 games, and Foye started 40 games. We also didn't have Dinwiddie until December.

- We're starting the season earlier. Less preseason injuries.
- Starting the season w/ Lin, LeVert and Dinwiddie all in a defined role.
- No Bogdanovic, No Foye, No Bennett, No Scola.


I get losing Brook will impact us at some point but are we gonna act like we didn't take a leap up compared to some of the guys we had before? We signed Foye, Scola, Bennett when we sung and missed with Tyler Johnson and Crabbe. Now, we have Crabbe and we have a Russell instead of TJ.

I think that's a significant improvement to a Randy Foye (61st in DRPM; 36% FG, 33% 3pt), Bojan Bogdanovic tandem (85th in 3pt%; 98th in DRPM)




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[MrDollarBills]

the team who shoots a high volume of 3s brought in guys who can all knock down the deep ball including an elite shooter in Crabbe. They replace Lopez with two centers who won't be as much of a liability on pick and roll/pick and pop plays on defense.
We now have a backcourt player who has shown he is capable of going on scoring explosions and can knock down the deep ball.

I'm not projecting the team will be a playoff team, but I see no reason for doom and gloom either. 28-32 wins would not be anything to be ashamed of in year 2 of our rebuild.

This team is going to surprise people. Defensively I have questions. Offensively? I don't think we'll miss Lopez one bit.