Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn

[CalamityX12]

Top stuff post NI.... it seems you are the Sage of Realgm...

[N Ireland Nets]

Top stuff post NI.... it seems you are the Sage of Realgm...

No far from it Calamity, I know next to nothing in all reality. I just thought it was an interesting discussion to talk about but thanks

[JMaine518]

Wow. Great job on this post NIN, I agree 100% about Teletovic starting and hopefully the coaching staff can see it too.

[vincecarter4pres]

Yo! Who made the Mirza sigs?

[Rollydog]

great post NIN, this looks like something that should be on netsdaily or bkgame...

A point should be made that Hump has especially regressed this season, mostly his midrange game... in 11-12 from 16 feet out he was making 44% on 2 attempts per game (52-117). He is 6-21 this season, which is totally inexplicable given he should have way more open looks now with the addition of Lopez and Johnson. This is why he isn't starting anymore, which is good, but Evans is a bad alternative: here's a guy who we picked up only because we wanted more frontcourt depth, he was last in the rotation coming into the season and slated to play utility minutes only, especially with Blatche's emergence.

That said we have two options... 1) is to play it safe, go with the guys who we know can play NBA ball; they have limited to no upside but they have "veteran savvy", the most elusive of talents. Evans fits this bill, Bogans and Stack as well. If we continue playing these guys we don't get better, we don't expand significantly the scope of this team, and our potential (basically semis or conference finals). The thing we lack above everything else is a dynamic offense, which I think everyone thought we would have but we really don't. The elite teams shoot over 47% from the field. We are 19th in the league at 44%. Since we are not, and never will be (even with Evans hah) a defensive juggernaut this is unacceptable.

2) We play Mirza, Marshon, TOKO?? whoever. We see what works. We take some losses maybe, but the goal is to win a championship right, and no one thinks we're gonna have home court in the finals anyway. Mirza is someone who can take that starting unit to the next level, right with OKC and Miami. The main question mark is defensive rebounding. I think the perception is he will get butchered but it didn't really happen when Crash was the starting 4, why should it happen now? What pisses me off about the rotations is how conservative the coaches are being, Mirza has been used as a "last option" when nothing else is working well. At this rate he doesn't start until we're down 3-1 against the Heat, who wants that to happen?

[jerseyjac]

To jerseyjac, you can definitely view some clips from a difference perspective. I think it's obvious that as my post got longer and longer I got more and more tired and basically picked a couple of things out of each image of Humps and Evans possessions rather than break it down a bit better like I did for Tele.

Reason being I had been writing this from about 7pm uk time till 1:20am or something so I basically was wrecked.

Next time I do something like this I would probably do it over a few days some time when the Nets have an extended break to give each player a fairer breakdown.

nah man, you did a good job, I don't want you to think I was being over critical, just agreed w/ speedy, but the message was very clear, etc...

[624]

awesome stuff.

I agree with everything you said.


Tele has also shown flashes of being a great passer. That kind of spacing with 4 players who can pass in JJ, DWill, Gerald, and Tele would be very dangerous on offense. Imagine once they get more chemistry together.

[PetroNet]

It makes no sense to keep him out of the starting lineup... if we arent going to defend we might as well try and outscore people. i can see going with humphries if we play a team we think we can pound on the glass as well. either way, evans need to go back to a 15mpg bench player

[SpeedyG]

It makes no sense to keep him out of the starting lineup... if we arent going to defend we might as well try and outscore people. i can see going with humphries if we play a team we think we can pound on the glass as well. either way, evans need to go back to a 15mpg bench player

This is something that we seriously need to consider. Certain teams we can go with Evans and Wallace with the starting unit because their offense is not good enough to overwhelm our defense. In fact, against some teams, this has worked wonders for our favor.

But the Heat are too good for us to play 3-on-5.

One of the things that was talked about was how versatile this team is. And that really hasn't changed. The problem is we keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. We keep trying to be this tough-grind-it-out defensive team, when we're simply not.

Our best wins and best games have been when we were playing up-tempo, moving the ball, and shooting well. Not when we're playing slow down, grind it out offense and defense.

[Brooklyn_Knight]

Just curious what everyone might think about this.

Do you think that Mirza could play the 3 spot instead of the 4?
When I watch him play he looks to be more of a wing player.
I remember reading a while back that he added around 20 pounds in order to play the pf in the nba.
Maybe not this season but next, he cuts down his weight so he is quicker and either starts or comes of the bench behind Wallace.
I just don't see him ever being a great complementary pf, beside Lopez.

[SpeedyG]

No way can Mirz play 3. As a stretch player on offense sure, but defensively it would be an incredible liability.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

SMH

Mirza is not a good player. You can spend as much time as you want to diagram how he helps the offense. It only takes about 2-3 possessions defensively to see why he why he isnt a rotational player let alone a starter.

He doesnt know how to play PnR defense. He stays far too long on his hedge and completely loses his man when he is suppose to recover. This forces someone else to pick his guy up which completely ruins the defensive set.

If teams choose to attack Lopez instead of Mirza in PnR, he still is a liabilty. He cant rebound vs PFs and most SFs and gives up easy put backs off of offensive rebounds.

How do I support my view? Look at his numbers vs opposing PFs

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN14.HTM

Scoring wise he holds his own vs opposing PFs
Mirza: 21.5 Pts per 48
Opp: 22.3 Pts per 48

But defensively he is a sieve
Opp average 58% eFG -AWEFUL

And on the glass he gets molested
Opp average 16.6 Reb per 48
Mirza: 8.9 Reb per 48

The scariest part of these numbers is that they come vs bad teams back in garbage time. Like Avery, PJ has no intention of playing Tele vs good teams. He didnt put Tele in vs Miami until we were getting thumped. You would think he would have played vs Mephis who is the best defensive team in the NBA but he didnt. He did the same vs Indy. The Nets hide Mirza like Mickey hid Rocky from real competition in Rocky 3 because they know it wont end well.

Mirza is like Tim Tebow. It's sounds nice to say he should be playing over the underwhelming options ahead of him but we all know he wont do any better.

It's not hard to figure out who sho be starting at PF. It's Blatche. Nets should have signed Birdman to be the backup C and let Blatche play his natural position. There are still some decent backup centers who can be had. Hammed Haddadi is likely to be bought out by Toronto. Jerome Jordan also would be a good option.

Sorry to break up the Mirza love fest but he is far from the answer.

[Keith Van Horn]

Can you give me those numbers using Humphries and Evans?

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

Can you give me those numbers using Humphries and Evans?

Reb per 48
Hump 16.2
Hump Opp 10.4

Evans 18.6
Evans Opp 8.4

Tele 8.9
Tele 16.6

Opp eFG%
Hump Opp 50%
Evans Opp 51.3%
Tele Opp 58%

[N Ireland Nets]

SMH

Mirza is not a good player. You can spend as much time as you want to diagram how he helps the offense. It only takes about 2-3 possessions defensively to see why he why he isnt a rotational player let alone a starter.

He doesnt know how to play PnR defense. He stays far too long on his hedge and completely loses his man when he is suppose to recover. This forces someone else to pick his guy up which completely ruins the defensive set.

If teams choose to attack Lopez instead of Mirza in PnR, he still is a liabilty. He cant rebound vs PFs and most SFs and gives up easy put backs off of offensive rebounds.

How do I support my view? Look at his numbers vs opposing PFs

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN14.HTM

Scoring wise he holds his own vs opposing PFs
Mirza: 21.5 Pts per 48
Opp: 22.3 Pts per 48

But defensively he is a sieve
Opp average 58% eFG -AWEFUL

And on the glass he gets molested
Opp average 16.6 Reb per 48
Mirza: 8.9 Reb per 48

The scariest part of these numbers is that they come vs bad teams back in garbage time. Like Avery, PJ has no intention of playing Tele vs good teams. He didnt put Tele in vs Miami until we were getting thumped. You would think he would have played vs Mephis who is the best defensive team in the NBA but he didnt. He did the same vs Indy. The Nets hide Mirza like Mickey hid Rocky from real competition in Rocky 3 because they know it wont end well.

Mirza is like Tim Tebow. It's sounds nice to say he should be playing over the underwhelming options ahead of him but we all know he wont do any better.

It's not hard to figure out who sho be starting at PF. It's Blatche. Nets should have signed Birdman to be the backup C and let Blatche play his natural position. There are still some decent backup centers who can be had. Hammed Haddadi is likely to be bought out by Toronto. Jerome Jordan also would be a good option.

Sorry to break up the Mirza love fest but he is far from the answer.

You make me laugh, I take it you were banned from NetsDaily then?

I mean your using per 48 minute numbers for someone averaging 8.3 mpg and thats a joke. Actually it's not even 8.3mins becauses he's only appeared in 26 games while only being sick for 1 game.

Teletovic has barely played this season, at all, any meaningful minutes apart from a few games in January. I used one of only a handful of games where Teletovic was given real minutes while the game was still undecided rather than in a blow out of us winning or losing by 20.

Your using stats for a player you've already said plays mostly garbage minutes to back up your argument. Yet Tele has only took part in 26 games and played 216mins overall with nearly half those minutes being played at center..(8% floor time with 3% at C 5% at PF mins using the link you provided).

Compare that to Hump who has played in 38 games and played 782mins. Or Evans 45 games 994 mins. How can you use such a small sample size for stats to judge performance when as you've said before, it's been mostly garbage minutes?

So 46 games in and Teletovic has played in 26 a total of 216mins and you deem that enough to gauge how good or bad he is when he has barely played??

[SpeedyG]

Wait, we're really going to extrapolate stats on a guy who's barely played 190 mins combined, most of which are on garbage time?

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

Wait, we're really going to extrapolate stats on a guy who's barely played 190 mins combined, most of which are on garbage time?

No but we are going to start a guy who is underperforming in 190 minutes. That sound way more rediculous

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

SMH

Mirza is not a good player. You can spend as much time as you want to diagram how he helps the offense. It only takes about 2-3 possessions defensively to see why he why he isnt a rotational player let alone a starter.

He doesnt know how to play PnR defense. He stays far too long on his hedge and completely loses his man when he is suppose to recover. This forces someone else to pick his guy up which completely ruins the defensive set.

If teams choose to attack Lopez instead of Mirza in PnR, he still is a liabilty. He cant rebound vs PFs and most SFs and gives up easy put backs off of offensive rebounds.

How do I support my view? Look at his numbers vs opposing PFs

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN14.HTM

Scoring wise he holds his own vs opposing PFs
Mirza: 21.5 Pts per 48
Opp: 22.3 Pts per 48

But defensively he is a sieve
Opp average 58% eFG -AWEFUL

And on the glass he gets molested
Opp average 16.6 Reb per 48
Mirza: 8.9 Reb per 48

The scariest part of these numbers is that they come vs bad teams back in garbage time. Like Avery, PJ has no intention of playing Tele vs good teams. He didnt put Tele in vs Miami until we were getting thumped. You would think he would have played vs Mephis who is the best defensive team in the NBA but he didnt. He did the same vs Indy. The Nets hide Mirza like Mickey hid Rocky from real competition in Rocky 3 because they know it wont end well.

Mirza is like Tim Tebow. It's sounds nice to say he should be playing over the underwhelming options ahead of him but we all know he wont do any better.

It's not hard to figure out who sho be starting at PF. It's Blatche. Nets should have signed Birdman to be the backup C and let Blatche play his natural position. There are still some decent backup centers who can be had. Hammed Haddadi is likely to be bought out by Toronto. Jerome Jordan also would be a good option.

Sorry to break up the Mirza love fest but he is far from the answer.

You make me laugh, I take it you were banned from NetsDaily then?

I mean your using per 48 minute numbers for someone averaging 8.3 mpg and thats a joke. Actually it's not even 8.3mins becauses he's only appeared in 26 games while only being sick for 1 game.

Teletovic has barely played this season, at all, any meaningful minutes apart from a few games in January. I used one of only a handful of games where Teletovic was given real minutes while the game was still undecided rather than in a blow out of us winning or losing by 20.

Your using stats for a player you've already said plays mostly garbage minutes to back up your argument. Yet Tele has only took part in 26 games and played 216mins overall with nearly half those minutes being played at center..(8% floor time with 3% at C 5% at PF mins using the link you provided).

Compare that to Hump who has played in 38 games and played 782mins. Or Evans 45 games 994 mins. How can you use such a small sample size for stats to judge performance when as you've said before, it's been mostly garbage minutes?

So 46 games in and Teletovic has played in 26 a total of 216mins and you deem that enough to gauge how good or bad he is when he has barely played??

So lets start the guy who has sucked in his limited role?

And you were a professional athlete? LOL OK.

Is playing time earned in soccer or do you reward poor performance?

His guy outrebounds him by 2x. FACT. Limited minutes or not. That isnt good incase you didnt know. Giving up 58% shooting isnt either.

Yet you want to start him. LOL OK buddy.

[N Ireland Nets]

SMH

Mirza is not a good player. You can spend as much time as you want to diagram how he helps the offense. It only takes about 2-3 possessions defensively to see why he why he isnt a rotational player let alone a starter.

He doesnt know how to play PnR defense. He stays far too long on his hedge and completely loses his man when he is suppose to recover. This forces someone else to pick his guy up which completely ruins the defensive set.

If teams choose to attack Lopez instead of Mirza in PnR, he still is a liabilty. He cant rebound vs PFs and most SFs and gives up easy put backs off of offensive rebounds.

How do I support my view? Look at his numbers vs opposing PFs

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN14.HTM

Scoring wise he holds his own vs opposing PFs
Mirza: 21.5 Pts per 48
Opp: 22.3 Pts per 48

But defensively he is a sieve
Opp average 58% eFG -AWEFUL

And on the glass he gets molested
Opp average 16.6 Reb per 48
Mirza: 8.9 Reb per 48

The scariest part of these numbers is that they come vs bad teams back in garbage time. Like Avery, PJ has no intention of playing Tele vs good teams. He didnt put Tele in vs Miami until we were getting thumped. You would think he would have played vs Mephis who is the best defensive team in the NBA but he didnt. He did the same vs Indy. The Nets hide Mirza like Mickey hid Rocky from real competition in Rocky 3 because they know it wont end well.

Mirza is like Tim Tebow. It's sounds nice to say he should be playing over the underwhelming options ahead of him but we all know he wont do any better.

It's not hard to figure out who sho be starting at PF. It's Blatche. Nets should have signed Birdman to be the backup C and let Blatche play his natural position. There are still some decent backup centers who can be had. Hammed Haddadi is likely to be bought out by Toronto. Jerome Jordan also would be a good option.

Sorry to break up the Mirza love fest but he is far from the answer.

You make me laugh, I take it you were banned from NetsDaily then?

I mean your using per 48 minute numbers for someone averaging 8.3 mpg and thats a joke. Actually it's not even 8.3mins becauses he's only appeared in 26 games while only being sick for 1 game.

Teletovic has barely played this season, at all, any meaningful minutes apart from a few games in January. I used one of only a handful of games where Teletovic was given real minutes while the game was still undecided rather than in a blow out of us winning or losing by 20.

Your using stats for a player you've already said plays mostly garbage minutes to back up your argument. Yet Tele has only took part in 26 games and played 216mins overall with nearly half those minutes being played at center..(8% floor time with 3% at C 5% at PF mins using the link you provided).

Compare that to Hump who has played in 38 games and played 782mins. Or Evans 45 games 994 mins. How can you use such a small sample size for stats to judge performance when as you've said before, it's been mostly garbage minutes?

So 46 games in and Teletovic has played in 26 a total of 216mins and you deem that enough to gauge how good or bad he is when he has barely played??

So lets start the guy who has sucked in his limited role?

And you were a professional athlete? LOL OK.

Is playing time earned in soccer or do you reward poor performance?

His guy outrebounds him by 2x. FACT. Limited minutes or not. That isnt good incase you didnt know. Giving up 58% shooting isnt either.

Yet you want to start him. LOL OK buddy.

You know absolutely nothing at all about me and my personal life, so why are you trying to have a go at my profession??

There are plenty of examples of players in football who have under performed until given an opportunity, Thierry Henry is one.

A player is judged on game time over a large enough sample period to deem if he is capable of playing. Footballers would never be judged off a sub that comes on for less than the last 10 minutes because it is understood it's hard to get involved in the rhyme of the game and up to speed to make a telling contribution.

You need to start games to be evaluated in football because it gives a player the best opportunity to succeed playing with the best team mates available. This is achieved through starting the game and playing the majority of minutes at your personally preferred strongest position.

So thanks for bringing up my profession which is totally unrelated in anyway to the topic at hand.

Back to the point, your judging someone who has barely played, and when he has played its been mainly garbage minutes.

[SpeedyG]

Wait, we're really going to extrapolate stats on a guy who's barely played 190 mins combined, most of which are on garbage time?

No but we are going to start a guy who is underperforming in 190 minutes. That sound way more rediculous

When Mirza plays with starters: Williams, JJ, and Lopez:

This line-up gives us a 1.63 OFF rating, even if it gives up 1.26 DEF.

Meanwhile, our most used lineup is of Deron, JJ, Crash, Evans, and Lopez has a 1.12 OFF and 1.08 DEF.

I rather take the 1.63 OFF/1.26 DEF than the 1.12 OFF/1.08 DEF with Evans.

By the way, that 1.63 OFF rating would be OFF THE CHARTS compared to other line-ups, even with the lineups of the Heat, Spurs, Nuggets, Warriors, and OKC.

So CLEARLY, we need to use this line-up more.