Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Netaman]

scanning FA lists the next 2 years the big issue is there's simply not much out there. Maybe they like either raptor guard enough FVV/GTJ to try for a S&T with dinwiddie/pick(s) but im not sure that works. im a big FVV fan and i would no have issue paying him more than dinwiddie. maybe that's how they consolidate 1 of their wings (Dinwiddie + wing = FVV?).

fvv is much more the floor general the roster needs.

finding the right bad contract to swap simmons for (with other assets included) is kind of the whole ball game. like the joe johnson trade you would think it's only going to be possible for other contracts viewed as 'worst in the sport'. beal, lavine, tobias, collins, hayward.

maybe a big enough overpay for FVV gets matched with a simmons and pick s&t?

[Keith Van Horn]

Wanted to comment on the Ben Simmons issue. Never seen a guy in basketball so deferring to attack the rim or go at it to put points on the board. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's like a soccer player passing up kicking into the open net n passed to a player to take on the burden. like wtf dude....

It's not good for the team to play under those conditions. His value ain't growing when he's doing that... idk, it's so bizarre while guys who give a sh*t and try, limited or not, are forced to watch. please.

Read on Twitter

[CalamityX12]

Wanted to comment on the Ben Simmons issue. Never seen a guy in basketball so deferring to attack the rim or go at it to put points on the board. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's like a soccer player passing up kicking into the open net n passed to a player to take on the burden. like wtf dude....

It's not good for the team to play under those conditions. His value ain't growing when he's doing that... idk, it's so bizarre while guys who give a sh*t and try, limited or not, are forced to watch. please.

Read on Twitter

lol i literally came back to post that same tweet video.....


who da F is that guy? looks like Ben Simmons from our team....

[Netaman]

Wanted to comment on the Ben Simmons issue. Never seen a guy in basketball so deferring to attack the rim or go at it to put points on the board. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's like a soccer player passing up kicking into the open net n passed to a player to take on the burden. like wtf dude....

It's not good for the team to play under those conditions. His value ain't growing when he's doing that... idk, it's so bizarre while guys who give a sh*t and try, limited or not, are forced to watch. please.

Read on Twitter

lol i literally came back to post that same tweet video.....


who da F is that guy? looks like Ben Simmons from our team....

when confidence gets shattered anything can happen. as bad as he has been p36 ben is still averaging almost a triple double THIS YEAR.

with kd/kyrie it made sense to shelter him and try to carve out some kind of low usage front court role.

it no longer makes any sense at all to do that. they need to just embrace him with the ultimate green light and 35 mpg with the ball in his hands making things happen like he did in philly. it's the only play left and with 2 years left on his contract, a janky roster, and nothing to play for this year it's the perfect time to do it.

[Eatgreenz]

Wanted to comment on the Ben Simmons issue. Never seen a guy in basketball so deferring to attack the rim or go at it to put points on the board. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's like a soccer player passing up kicking into the open net n passed to a player to take on the burden. like wtf dude....

It's not good for the team to play under those conditions. His value ain't growing when he's doing that... idk, it's so bizarre while guys who give a sh*t and try, limited or not, are forced to watch. please.

Read on Twitter

Smfh I really hope its the back injury thats stopping him from being that guy again. Where closing into the time(12-18 months) were most people heal from from it. If that Ben returns we can be back to contending with just one more piece needed.

[Netaman]

here are his per 36's over his whole career.

we all know his shooting has been down (which was expected playing with KD/Kyrie).

his fouls are up, probably because he's trying to play big.

his rebounds, assists, steals, and shooting% are all at their prior norms.



put the ball in his hands and let him run the offense however he's comfortable. he should get bridges/cj/dinwiddie a lot of catch and shoot 3's. hopefully some more looks for claxton too (who has also gotten lost with the new group).

he's averaged 26 mpg this year, i get why JV dislikes his demeanor because that seems to be a recurring problem, but Ben needs some Kenny Atkinson good vibes and opportunity right now.

[3pt_chucker]

We can talk about Simmons all we want but just look at how JV is treating him. He has no faith in him and has repeatedly called him out in the media. Obviously his play has been far far from expectations and all his flaws are have been talked about to death.

Right now his current role with the team is not going to make him better. Playing him 3rd string Center and having him just be a screen and roller, handoff guy is not gonna magically make him feel or play better.

How about we lean into his strengths. He wants to play more like a PG than a C and he has shown he can be the primary ball handler. Why not make him the actual PG (Not fake PG/C). Give him the responsibility to set up the offense full time and see how responds. His entire time as a Net, he looks best when he can push the pace and set up others. Why force him to play a role he doesn't like while his confidence is at its lowest. I'm not asking to build the roster around him but more play to his strengths instead of his weaknesses. The goal should be develop the strengths of his game and slowly build on the weaknesses, so that the team can sell his upside to another talent depleted team.

Right now his value has zero hope of going up to even being a neutral asset because he just doesn't have a proper role with the team.

[Netaman]

We can talk about Simmons all we want but just look at how JV is treating him. He has no faith in him and has repeatedly called him out in the media. Obviously his play has been far far from expectations and all his flaws are have been talked about to death.

Right now his current role with the team is not going to make him better. Playing him 3rd string Center and having him just be a screen and roller, handoff guy is not gonna magically make him feel or play better.

How about we lean into his strengths. He wants to play more like a PG than a C and he has shown he can be the primary ball handler. Why not make him the actual PG (Not fake PG/C). Give him the responsibility to set up the offense full time and see how responds. His entire time as a Net, he looks best when he can push the pace and set up others. Why force him to play a role he doesn't like while his confidence is at its lowest. I'm not asking to build the roster around him but more play to his strengths instead of his weaknesses. The goal should be develop the strengths of his game and slowly build on the weaknesses, so that the team can sell his upside to another talent depleted team.

Right now his value has zero hope of going up to even being a neutral asset because he just doesn't have a proper role with the team.

when he was still here and acting crazy or having bad games, did JV call out kyrie publicly? that guy was just as bad of a teammate and probably even more mentally ill, but because he was talented enough and could compartmentalize it enough to still shoot lights out he got coddled.

i trust there is 100% a valid reason why JV doesn't like the way simmons carries himself. way too much smoke for there to not be an issue with that. but that's besides the point. the franchise is in a very different place now. simmons is now our new deangelo russell after getting called out by magic johnson. he is jalil okafor. he is a rehab situation where the only priority is giving him a chance to increase his value. there is nothing left to be gained from 'teaching him a lesson' this year.

next year is a different story but they will have a full summer to put together the roster they want a full camp to set up the team how they want to. this roster was pasted together within 48 hours at a trade deadline.

to be clear there are no good options to choose right now, only the best of bad options. like a hook and ladder at the end of a football game. ben simmons is our best hook and ladder right now because he's the only legitimate playmaker on the roster, and just like jv with kyrie the upside is worth some coddling because just a few years ago he was one of the best in the nba.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

lol i literally came back to post that same tweet video.....


who da F is that guy? looks like Ben Simmons from our team....

when confidence gets shattered anything can happen. as bad as he has been p36 ben is still averaging almost a triple double THIS YEAR.

with kd/kyrie it made sense to shelter him and try to carve out some kind of low usage front court role.

it no longer makes any sense at all to do that. they need to just embrace him with the ultimate green light and 35 mpg with the ball in his hands making things happen like he did in philly. it's the only play left and with 2 years left on his contract, a janky roster, and nothing to play for this year it's the perfect time to do it.

Ben doesn't even remotely look physically the same. Look at the burst off of the dribble...that's not there. dude can't even dribble past anyone.

He needs to be shut down.

[Born_Ready]

lol i literally came back to post that same tweet video.....


who da F is that guy? looks like Ben Simmons from our team....

when confidence gets shattered anything can happen. as bad as he has been p36 ben is still averaging almost a triple double THIS YEAR.

with kd/kyrie it made sense to shelter him and try to carve out some kind of low usage front court role.

it no longer makes any sense at all to do that. they need to just embrace him with the ultimate green light and 35 mpg with the ball in his hands making things happen like he did in philly. it's the only play left and with 2 years left on his contract, a janky roster, and nothing to play for this year it's the perfect time to do it.

Ben doesn't even remotely look physically the same. Look at the burst off of the dribble...that's not there. dude can't even dribble past anyone.

He needs to be shut down.

Agreed and it really sucks that this is the version of Ben Simmons we as fans are subjected to. I feel sorry for the organization having to deal with this nonsense and that they are sadly contractually obligated to this dude.

His love for basketball left when Kendal moved on to Booker. Ben was probably like f her, f basketball, and f Devin Booker all in one swoop. I wish DFS or Day Day would slap the chit out of him and tell him to snap out of this funk, however, it's not a funk, he is done all together I feel like.

The sooner he is out of the lineup the less stress on all parties that have to deal with him and watch his lackluster effort to compete.

[3pt_chucker]

We can talk about Simmons all we want but just look at how JV is treating him. He has no faith in him and has repeatedly called him out in the media. Obviously his play has been far far from expectations and all his flaws are have been talked about to death.

Right now his current role with the team is not going to make him better. Playing him 3rd string Center and having him just be a screen and roller, handoff guy is not gonna magically make him feel or play better.

How about we lean into his strengths. He wants to play more like a PG than a C and he has shown he can be the primary ball handler. Why not make him the actual PG (Not fake PG/C). Give him the responsibility to set up the offense full time and see how responds. His entire time as a Net, he looks best when he can push the pace and set up others. Why force him to play a role he doesn't like while his confidence is at its lowest. I'm not asking to build the roster around him but more play to his strengths instead of his weaknesses. The goal should be develop the strengths of his game and slowly build on the weaknesses, so that the team can sell his upside to another talent depleted team.

Right now his value has zero hope of going up to even being a neutral asset because he just doesn't have a proper role with the team.

when he was still here and acting crazy or having bad games, did JV call out kyrie publicly? that guy was just as bad of a teammate and probably even more mentally ill, but because he was talented enough and could compartmentalize it enough to still shoot lights out he got coddled.

i trust there is 100% a valid reason why JV doesn't like the way simmons carries himself. way too much smoke for there to not be an issue with that. but that's besides the point. the franchise is in a very different place now. simmons is now our new deangelo russell after getting called out by magic johnson. he is jalil okafor. he is a rehab situation where the only priority is giving him a chance to increase his value. there is nothing left to be gained from 'teaching him a lesson' this year.

next year is a different story but they will have a full summer to put together the roster they want a full camp to set up the team how they want to. this roster was pasted together within 48 hours at a trade deadline.

to be clear there are no good options to choose right now, only the best of bad options. like a hook and ladder at the end of a football game. ben simmons is our best hook and ladder right now because he's the only legitimate playmaker on the roster, and just like jv with kyrie the upside is worth some coddling because just a few years ago he was one of the best in the nba.

Oh great analogy. DLo had a close to negative value when he got traded to the Nets. Kenny and co did a great job turning him into a positive with a mix of letting him be himself but still giving him constructive criticism and tough love.(Remember that stretch when he didn't close games?). Nets let him lean into his want to ball handle (be a PG) but also slowly worked on him improving being effective off ball(catch and shoot), reducing turnovers and not being a black hole on defense.

Right now I don't really get what JV is doing. Maybe he is slow at pivoting with what he has now but he has to realize the goal is development, while teaching good habits.

Kenny showed that development does not have to come with constant loosing. Heck this roster is far more talented than what Kenny had.

[3pt_chucker]

lol i literally came back to post that same tweet video.....


who da F is that guy? looks like Ben Simmons from our team....

when confidence gets shattered anything can happen. as bad as he has been p36 ben is still averaging almost a triple double THIS YEAR.

with kd/kyrie it made sense to shelter him and try to carve out some kind of low usage front court role.

it no longer makes any sense at all to do that. they need to just embrace him with the ultimate green light and 35 mpg with the ball in his hands making things happen like he did in philly. it's the only play left and with 2 years left on his contract, a janky roster, and nothing to play for this year it's the perfect time to do it.

Ben doesn't even remotely look physically the same. Look at the burst off of the dribble...that's not there. dude can't even dribble past anyone.

He needs to be shut down.

Orrr, we focus on using him in a way that does not requiring him being his old athletic self.

Nash sucked but I liked that he wanted to get him into being more of a PG. Once Nash got fired, JV didn't like that and changed his role to be a screener, screen and roll, hand off etc etc. That made sense with the previous roster but right now the team should go back to that. He doesn't have to jump out of the gym to be a better PG. I saw flashes in the recent Bulls game that he can do it if given a chance. Making him 3rd string center is just silly. He's never been that type of player.

Giving him a consistent defined PG role in a set amount of mins is way better than whatever tf it is now. It's the best chance to developing him to be a non-negative player and asset.

Doubt this happens tho since its seems clear JV does not like him and will def cut his mins to zero. (Unless Marks steps in)

[Netaman]

Oh great analogy. DLo had a close to negative value when he got traded to the Nets. Kenny and co did a great job turning him into a positive with a mix of letting him be himself but still giving him constructive criticism and tough love.(Remember that stretch when he didn't close games?). Nets let him lean into his want to ball handle (be a PG) but also slowly worked on him improving being effective off ball(catch and shoot), reducing turnovers and not being a black hole on defense.

Right now I don't really get what JV is doing. Maybe he is slow at pivoting with what he has now but he has to realize the goal is development, while teaching good habits.

Kenny showed that development does not have to come with constant loosing. Heck this roster is far more talented than what Kenny had.

I think you're right that JV is still adjusting to the new reality. Early on he led the turnaround by raising the compete level around KD and riding the team harder. It was understandable to marginalize Ben at that point and make him earn any minutes he got. it was a team going for a championship.

So far post-trade I think JV wants to have a lineup of junkyard dogs and make up for the talent loss by riding the defense even more. Good in theory - but when you are getting lit up by Randle/Brunson the weakness of relying on defense becomes clear. It's hard to build a cohesive defense on the fly with all new pieces.

The 800 pound gorilla is that this team has no central playmaker. Dinwiddie is an ok complimentary guard. The front court is really interesting. There's nobody who can carry an offense. Simmons may not be that guy either but he's the only one on the team with the talent to do it and done it before. There's no reason to not give him a shot.

[TheNetsFan]

lol i literally came back to post that same tweet video.....


who da F is that guy? looks like Ben Simmons from our team....

when confidence gets shattered anything can happen. as bad as he has been p36 ben is still averaging almost a triple double THIS YEAR.

with kd/kyrie it made sense to shelter him and try to carve out some kind of low usage front court role.

it no longer makes any sense at all to do that. they need to just embrace him with the ultimate green light and 35 mpg with the ball in his hands making things happen like he did in philly. it's the only play left and with 2 years left on his contract, a janky roster, and nothing to play for this year it's the perfect time to do it.

Ben doesn't even remotely look physically the same. Look at the burst off of the dribble...that's not there. dude can't even dribble past anyone.

He needs to be shut down.

Why shut him down? He needs to work his way back into that kind of shape. If he's not hurting let him work through it.

[Marvin Martian]

Honestly I don't want Trae or KAT. I would be ok with KAT but I much rather a 2 way star or a star that can try and compete on defense at the least. Those 2 guys don't even try on that side of the floor, thee absolute worst defenders in the NBA. I get that we can cover for them with everybody else being good defensively but I rather not have any big holes on defense like those guys are. I definitely don't want Trae, dude is shooting horribly this year and he just isn't that great. We should have our sights on SGA

I get your point on trae but out of the three him, kat, sga. Trae looks like the most attainable. We literally built a perfect team for someone like him, plus no way he wouldn't love to play against knicks in the garden 2 times a year.

Trae would make this team a top 10 offense instantly. Yes there are concerns about his defense but CLE has a bad defensive backcourt and yet they are number one in defense. With Trae and a solid defense, you have a foundation for a 1A star to want to play for the Nets. And unlike the Kyrie era, that player will not own the team and take over the culture

[Karate Diop]

I'm not expecting much from Simmons the rest of this year - but despite the frustration with watching him play I'm willing to give him one more year... If he's like this next year, then my optimism that he'll ever regain his form will be significantly diminished if not gone entirely...

[Papi_swav]

Honestly I don't want Trae or KAT. I would be ok with KAT but I much rather a 2 way star or a star that can try and compete on defense at the least. Those 2 guys don't even try on that side of the floor, thee absolute worst defenders in the NBA. I get that we can cover for them with everybody else being good defensively but I rather not have any big holes on defense like those guys are. I definitely don't want Trae, dude is shooting horribly this year and he just isn't that great. We should have our sights on SGA

I get your point on trae but out of the three him, kat, sga. Trae looks like the most attainable. We literally built a perfect team for someone like him, plus no way he wouldn't love to play against knicks in the garden 2 times a year.

Trae would make this team a top 10 offense instantly. Yes there are concerns about his defense but CLE has a bad defensive backcourt and yet they are number one in defense. With Trae and a solid defense, you have a foundation for a 1A star to want to play for the Nets. And unlike the Kyrie era, that player will not own the team and take over the culture

Nah I'm cool on Trae, dude is not it. He has a really good team and he's leading them to under .500 , that's not good. he had one good year where he went far in the playoffs and ppl think he's something special, he's just not that guy. Dude is shooting under 40% in this analytical stat era, alot worse than A.I .

Hawks fans would rather Murray take over then to keep him so that should tell you something. I don't see how Cavs have a bad defensive backcourt at all. Garland is not terrible on defense and neither is Mitchell. But Trae is the worst in the whole NBA on defense by far.

[Papi_swav]

scanning FA lists the next 2 years the big issue is there's simply not much out there. Maybe they like either raptor guard enough FVV/GTJ to try for a S&T with dinwiddie/pick(s) but im not sure that works. im a big FVV fan and i would no have issue paying him more than dinwiddie. maybe that's how they consolidate 1 of their wings (Dinwiddie + wing = FVV?).

fvv is much more the floor general the roster needs.

finding the right bad contract to swap simmons for (with other assets included) is kind of the whole ball game. like the joe johnson trade you would think it's only going to be possible for other contracts viewed as 'worst in the sport'. beal, lavine, tobias, collins, hayward.

maybe a big enough overpay for FVV gets matched with a simmons and pick s&t?

I've already stated this like 5 times, 2025 is the big FA year. We can be patient until then. Only guy I want from 2024 is Jaylen Brown.

[TheNetsFan]

scanning FA lists the next 2 years the big issue is there's simply not much out there. Maybe they like either raptor guard enough FVV/GTJ to try for a S&T with dinwiddie/pick(s) but im not sure that works. im a big FVV fan and i would no have issue paying him more than dinwiddie. maybe that's how they consolidate 1 of their wings (Dinwiddie + wing = FVV?).

fvv is much more the floor general the roster needs.

finding the right bad contract to swap simmons for (with other assets included) is kind of the whole ball game. like the joe johnson trade you would think it's only going to be possible for other contracts viewed as 'worst in the sport'. beal, lavine, tobias, collins, hayward.

maybe a big enough overpay for FVV gets matched with a simmons and pick s&t?

I've already stated this like 5 times, 2025 is the big FA year. We can be patient until then. Only guy I want from 2024 is Jaylen Brown.

This. 2025 can be an all time great FA class. It coincides with a potential cap spike. We know Marks supposedly had Mitchell at the top of his draft board the year he was drafted & tried to get up as high as he could to draft him. I could see him be a top target for us in 2025.

[Papi_swav]

I got my sights on bigger fish than Mitchell. Tatum, Ingram, Giannis.