Shaq To Suns?

[halfHAVOC]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png

[aussienet]

Hey Rich, always respect your posts. Heck I wet lmao at 90% percent of them (in a good way of course) but I think your missing the point on this.

1) JKIDD is contracted until the end of 08/09 season (no cap relief this summer)
2) Why are we sitting around doin nothin?
3) check out a trade thread I made it shows who we would have to give up
4) Shaq is goin to be high risk/high return regardless who gets him (well phx got him officially now) I just think it is worth the risk to get us long suffering nets fan a title.
5) Keep KIDD happy here first then if no chance trade him.

If JKIDD want's out why the secret negotiations? Thorn should come out and say this is what we want for him and anyone who wants him has to meet the criteria. If JKIDD cracks the poops and doesn't like it and won't play he is only hurtin his own legacy.

It just seems that everyone is doin something but we aren't trying to make this team better.

In the words of C Montgomery Burns "Smithers i'm startin to think that Homer Simpson (Thorn) is not quite the negotiator I made him out to be"
(cut to thorn looking at news clippings of Jordan Draft and VC trade with that silly lookin smile on his Face .......... screen fades to black)

Cheers!!


Go Nets!!!

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm starting to think Rod is gonna come up with some kind of 3 team trade in the offseason to either get rid of Kidd, RJ or VC and bring in Brand.

[G_MoNeY]

While I think Marion is a good player, I also think he's a product of the system he was in. I don't expect him to have near the numbers he's had in past years with PHX.

As far as Shaq goes, I can just say we'll see. I think PHX is favorites to win the championship now. Shaq has at least 2 years left. Many factors could go into his declining play over the past 2 years. Injuries, yes, but what about the situation Miami has been in? He had probably checked out mentally anyways. You don't go from being THAT dominant to just being terrible. This trade would've helped us tremendously, sad management wasn't more active in a deal like this. The only other legit big out there that's somewhat interesting is back to JO, and his contract isn't great and he's more injured than Shaq and less dominant.

[Serpo]

Phoenix biggest Problem is they just have 7-8 maybe at best 9 useful players and a bunch of scrubs . This was before the trade and it hasn't gotten better with this trade .

If Shaq or anybody else gets hurt , they get serious problems . If you look at the age of some of the players and their injury history it's not that unlikely someone will be out .

Although if they manage to stay healthy they've got a better chance then they had with Marion .

[jerseyjac]

I'll agree that you need a dominant big, but to say PHX won in this trade? Shaq is a rapidly declining deadweight that has and will continue to take punishment on his body as long as he's on the court. In the West, you have guys like Duncan, Yao, Boozer, Camby, and Gasol waiting for him while there are more fast paced teams in the West that could burn his huge frame. Not to mention his conditioning won't be as great coming off injury...Oh yeah! His hip! How's that going to affect him?

You're saying we should've traded for him? Shaq could hardly handle 30 minutes as is with a coach like Riley. What the hell makes you think he can handle ~40 with a coach like Frank? Even from a financial perspective, have you seen his contract? Do I dare ask how any of you plan to cover his contract in a trade?

Marion is still one of the most underrated players in the league. He is the most versatile defensive player in the league. The guy does pretty much everything a coach would want a player to do on the court. Not to mention, have you seen his contract? Who plays C for the Heat now? They couldn't care less. Now they too have a great shot of staying at the bottom. In two years, you'll have Marion (if he decides to stay), Wade, and two top 5 picks.

Did PHX bomb completely in this trade? I don't think so considering the pieces and staff in PHX. With Amare and Shaq, they perhaps could possibly play a better slower pace than other teams in the playoffs. But to say we should've traded for him? Entirely different story.

And Nets fans, holy crap...I've said this before and I'll say it again from enetric's words...you can't make a trade for the sake of making a trade. Look at the Knicks. Understand that there are two aspects in this sport to making a trade. The team itself both presently and the future and the business aspect. This isn't as simple as playing Live or 2K where if a trade doesn't pan out, we could cut him or load a saved file. Shaq doesn't fit these two aspects here.

I agree w. Rich 100%...you guys want a trade so bad, Thorn dropping the ball...blblablblblbla BLAH!...

If Thorn could get Gasol, he would of...come on, you think these type of basic phone calls werent made...

Shaq to the Suns, insane yes...but its pretty simple...Kerr takes a gamble on an aging Shaq to team up with Amare and Nash, w/ a roster that has some quality role players...(Barbosa sees an increase role, Diaw gets more PT and w/ /the likes of Bell and Hill--healthy, they'll team up well w/ Disel)...

If the question is how healthy is Shaq, I'm sure the Suns know (25-30min probably)...and yes the best running game in the NBA was just dismantled...but I think the Suns, as much as they are gambling on Shaq, just dont believe they didnt have enough on their front line to win a NBA title...combined w. the Marion's frustration...you see the shocker of a deal...

As far as the Matrix...he's a flat out stud...his numbers will most definitely will go up, how high is the only question...defensively and offensively he is one of the most balanced players...through in his physical attributes and its a no brainer for Heat...D-Wade and the Matrix will be sick...

[jerseyjac]

I think PHX has come to the realization that to win a title you need a dominant big who can score on the block and defend in the post. Look at the past champions, all the teams have one. I like the deal for PHX, I expect Marion to struggle elsewhere.

I'm just jealous of all these teams being active yet we're just sitting here.

G...I really dont think its that simple in reference to the Nets...and we're not just sitting here cause we did get Stro for Collins...that actually makes us an active NBA front office...

Its a fact our players are out on the market, but its still a matter of finding the RIGHT trade...

for the record...I wanted nothing to do w. Shaq...sorry, I dont care what angle you draw it from, I'm passing...

and another thing to note as far as making a trade some have touched on...it has to be financially feasible...

The only aspect I feel thats truly up in the air, is our front office's course of action or direction as a franchise...I believe we're still treading water and playing the wait and see game...

[G_MoNeY]

I mentioned the Swift/Collins trade, but if that's us being "active".. then we're all in for big trouble. As much as I wanted Collins to go, if we're content with treading water, then we have no hopes for a ring.

I personally just feel Thorn isn't willing to give up pieces to get better ones. He's offering players who haven't made an impact here and hoping to get a steal. It's not going to happen. I understand if teams are low-balling us for Kidd right now, because we're kind of desperate as far as contending. GMs know we're in a win-now mode, and with Kidd demanding out, it made Thorn's job even tougher. Magloire didn't get a chance under Frank, Wright just sucks, Nachbar is inconsistent, all 3 of which are expiring deals. Our starting 5 is the only attractive players on this team, talent-wise. Is Thorn REALLY willing to give up on them yet? I think the experiment has gone on long enough, and I'm not saying make a trade for the sake of making one, I'm saying this isn't working. Whether it be the coach, the chemistry, the talent not meshing, whatever. For us to be content and have someone preach patience when it clearly isn't working is disappointing. We're so close, yet so far away.

To touch on the Shaq situation ONE last time. I realize many may be hesitant to take on such a deal for a soon-to-be 36 year old. His presence alone will cause problems for opponents. I still feel he has 2 years left in him. He'll finish out his contract. I think PHX is favorites to win it all now, because of that move. Their current lineup, before the Shaq deal, has been tested in the playoffs many times, it has not worked. Shaq frees up their shooters, because of double teams on the block. Shaq's presence frees up Stoudemire's ability to finish around the rim and hit the 17 foot jump shot. Shaq's presence keeps Amare out of foul trouble and allows the perimeter to sag off a bit more from their defenders because they have TWO shot-blocking presences in the paint now.

How would he help us? Frees up Carter, Nachbar to get their shots. Makes Kidds job easier on rebounds, which allows us to run more because we're not a team-rebounding team anymore. Basically everything I mentioned above about PHX, would be the same for us. We don't have the luxury of a player like Amare, but everyone would've benefited from his presence. Lastly, the Shaq deal truly showed how serious we are about contending. If we wanted to give it one last shot, we could've made the deal and I seriously think we would've been favorites in the East. We would've matched up better in the West and it would've allowed everyone to play their game, not something they're not comfortable doing. Frank's problems would've been masked by a Shaq addition. That is if Frank would've played him, knowing Frank, who knows.

[netsforever]

Kidd by the summer is a $20 million expiring. Worth much more than he is right now. Even if Kidd doesn't ever get traded, we have $20 million off the books and we become great bidders in Top 10 drafts. RJ will be worth a lot to other teams by draft time who are looking for a slasher. VC is virtually untradeable. Only he could help his stock.

Completely agree. That's why we shouldn't even be considering moving him. We won't get anything in return except for mid 1st round picks and long contracts, which we do not want. I'd rather stick him on the end of the bench then move him.

[aussienet]

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Completely agree. That's why we shouldn't even be considering moving him. We won't get anything in return except for mid 1st round picks and long contracts, which we do not want. I'd rather stick him on the end of the bench then move him.

Am i missing something? JKIDD is contracted for 21 million through to 08/09. He is not a free agent this summer. We will not lose 20 million off our books this year. If JKIDD has an opt out after this year i will stand corrected.

[G_MoNeY]

I don't believe he has a player option. I think what most are trying to stress, which I agree with, is that he sticks around until the summer. Plays in the Olympics and hopefully puts on a show, increases his stock, and teams will give up more to get him.

Or, Thorn makes a move, changes this team and Kidd will stay. I think a lot of this depends on the extension that's been referred to. Teams may be hesitant to give him the extension and that's a factor in deciding if they want to deal for him.

[S.I.C. GM]

At first I thought this trade was going to destroy the Suns, but as I look deeper, this is a risky but very good trade for the Suns.

If Shaq and Amare get touches in the post, this is going to get ugly. Shaq and Amare are going to score in the post and they are going to find open men when doubled. This is going to be a crazy in an out game by the Suns. They are also going to run.

G. Money before you go off with the usual - We should have trade RJ for Shaq or every other person not named VC. This works because of all the shooters on this team, Nash, Bell, Barbosa, Hill, Piatkowski (Next Kerr), and Diaw (?). Shaq or any low post player would never work here. Trade RJ then we have who to shoot, VC (inconsistent), Boki (inconsistent), and Kidd (No Shot at all).

This trade is going to work. They have the right pieces. Marion, one of my favorite players, was just the scape goat. Kerr knows what he is doing even though it is risky.

[G_MoNeY]

SIC, I agree it was a good trade for PHX, thus why I predicted them as the favorites now.

I also mentioned that if this deal were to happen, we'd have to make ANOTHER move to acquire a consistent shooter. The players we currently have would have open looks more often, which means the shots would fall more often, at least you'd hope.

[netsforever]

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Am i missing something? JKIDD is contracted for 21 million through to 08/09. He is not a free agent this summer. We will not lose 20 million off our books this year. If JKIDD has an opt out after this year i will stand corrected.

You're correct. He's a free agent after next summer, which I thought I had mentioned.

The 20 million comes off our books after next season.

[Rich Rane]

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Am i missing something? JKIDD is contracted for 21 million through to 08/09. He is not a free agent this summer. We will not lose 20 million off our books this year. If JKIDD has an opt out after this year i will stand corrected.

He's not a FA this summer. He becomes an expiring this summer.

[Rich Rane]

I also mentioned that if this deal were to happen, we'd have to make ANOTHER move to acquire a consistent shooter. The players we currently have would have open looks more often, which means the shots would fall more often, at least you'd hope.

I just want to know your blueprints for such moves.

[G_MoNeY]

I've suggested Matt Carroll for Magloire + Wright

Mike Miller and Wally Sczerbiak make sense, but I don't like their contracts.

Damon Jones? Salim Stoudamire? JJ Redick? Mike James? All players who have fallen out of favor with their respective teams and could help us. All of them provide us a scoring punch off the bench.

Rasual Butler, JR Smith, Quincy Douby. All of these guys are shooters. And are better shooters than we currently have.

[netsforever]

I've suggested Matt Carroll for Magloire + Wright

Mike Miller and Wally Sczerbiak make sense, but I don't like their contracts.

Damon Jones? Salim Stoudamire? JJ Redick? Mike James? All players who have fallen out of favor with their respective teams and could help us. All of them provide us a scoring punch off the bench.

Rasual Butler, JR Smith, Quincy Douby. All of these guys are shooters. And are better shooters than we currently have.

None of those guys push us over the top. You're rearranging chairs at this point.

[G_MoNeY]

I was referring to them if we made a deal for Shaq, and how they would help us.

I agree none would put us over the top by themselves, but pair them with a legit big man.

They all provide something we lack, which is consistent scoring when given minutes, especially off the bench.

[Rich Rane]

I was referring to them if we made a deal for Shaq, and how they would help us.

I agree none would put us over the top by themselves, but pair them with a legit big man.

They all provide something we lack, which is consistent scoring when given minutes, especially off the bench.

And what should've we traded for Shaq?