Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[MrDollarBills]

I'd have to say absolutely no to this.

Porter's defense has always been immensely overrated and exaggerated and he's lost a step athletically from the average one he was.

Dipo as a player overall has been overrated as well and his defense has been average or so since all the injuries and overall he's looked terrible coming back this year.

I wouldn't mind either on the cheap, but compared to getting Jrue it's not close. It's like comparing a used M3 in near perfect shape to a used Hyundai Elantra Sport that has never been properly maintained and has 100k extra miles, and a used Honda Civic Si that was used on Autocross courses every weekend for 2 years and every time it had an accident or broke down, it was repaired by a suspect backyard mechanic with crappy budget aftermarket parts.

Like sure, for the right price those 2 could be fun beaters and if you're lucky, reliable, but they're not even in the same conversation. You want the thoroughbred you pony up for the Bimmer.

Sim simma!:)

Otto's athleticism is not the driving force behind his above average defense. He's long, smart and knows angles. Similar to Tayshaun, he'll be able to lock down opponents of all sizes for several more years, despite not having elite run-jump ability. Also, his shooting splits and razor-thin usage would be perfect. He be our Danny Green, only a decade younger.

You're right, Dipo hasn't looked good defensively since his injury. Even his offense hadn't come all the way back. That's why he'd be a buy-low investment.

In a vacuum, sure, I would prefer my BMW over a Civic. But the beamer would cost us Dinwiddie, Allen and the #19 pick at minimum. The Civic may only cost us Dinwiddie and Prince. I'd rather park my beat-up commuter car in the garage of my mansion, than sell my house to live out of a luxury vehicle.

Eh, KD and Kyrie are the mansion, Allen and the 19 are the jet ski and the dirt bike haha.

I don't mean to minimize Allen, cause i love him for the long term potential and like him a lot as a current product, but if you're talking the difference between getting Jrue to either of Dipo or Porter is him and the 19, personally I'm going for Jrue every time.

If you told me Jrue cost Dinwiddie/Allen/19/'21 1st, but Dipo only cost Prince and the 19, then you'd have my attention. Still probably go for Jrue though and try signing his brother for the MLE.

I'm not a fan of trading Dinwiddie at this point. I think for a championship run next season, we will need both Dinwiddie and Harris.

if we can get Victor Oladipo at a reduced cost, you absolutely make that trade.

[MrDollarBills]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

[vincecarter4pres]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

This.

If we’re defining wide open 3’s as 4-6 feet open, he’s around 37%.

If we’re talking 6’+, he’s over 40%. This is on almost 3 attempts per game. This is also for last year.

Averaging out the last 3 years he’s about 36% on everything 4-6’, maybe 38 and change from 6’ and beyond of defenders.

[vincecarter4pres]

Sim simma!:)

Otto's athleticism is not the driving force behind his above average defense. He's long, smart and knows angles. Similar to Tayshaun, he'll be able to lock down opponents of all sizes for several more years, despite not having elite run-jump ability. Also, his shooting splits and razor-thin usage would be perfect. He be our Danny Green, only a decade younger.

You're right, Dipo hasn't looked good defensively since his injury. Even his offense hadn't come all the way back. That's why he'd be a buy-low investment.

In a vacuum, sure, I would prefer my BMW over a Civic. But the beamer would cost us Dinwiddie, Allen and the #19 pick at minimum. The Civic may only cost us Dinwiddie and Prince. I'd rather park my beat-up commuter car in the garage of my mansion, than sell my house to live out of a luxury vehicle.

Eh, KD and Kyrie are the mansion, Allen and the 19 are the jet ski and the dirt bike haha.

I don't mean to minimize Allen, cause i love him for the long term potential and like him a lot as a current product, but if you're talking the difference between getting Jrue to either of Dipo or Porter is him and the 19, personally I'm going for Jrue every time.

If you told me Jrue cost Dinwiddie/Allen/19/'21 1st, but Dipo only cost Prince and the 19, then you'd have my attention. Still probably go for Jrue though and try signing his brother for the MLE.

I'm not a fan of trading Dinwiddie at this point. I think for a championship run next season, we will need both Dinwiddie and Harris.

if we can get Victor Oladipo at a reduced cost, you absolutely make that trade.

I don’t think it matters so much if you keep LeVert.

I’d probably keep Dinwiddie if I had the choice and he was willing to sign long term, but all signs are pointing towards them attempting to keep Caris between the two.

But regardless, I don’t think it matters so much if you keep LeVert. Jrue takes that starting 2 spot, someone not currently even on the roster is the starting 3 and whoever is left of Din and Caris leads the bench with Harris.

[ecuhus1981]

I can't wait for the big reveal, when we find out that 7fM and Prok are the same person, just bickering with each other for our amusement. KD would approve.

[vincecarter4pres]

I can't wait for the big reveal, when we find out that 7fM and Prok are the same person, just bickering with each other for our amusement. KD would approve.

[MrDollarBills]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

This.

If we’re defining wide open 3’s as 4-6 feet open, he’s around 37%.

If we’re talking 6’+, he’s over 40%. This is on almost 3 attempts per game. This is also for last year.

Averaging out the last 3 years he’s about 36% on everything 4-6’, maybe 38 and change from 6’ and beyond of defenders.

So he's hitting open threes at an excellent clip, and we will be bringing him onto a team that will see plenty of open looks based on the fact that defenses will be pissing their pants over KD and Kyrie. We need threes and defense from our starting SG. Sounds like he's the guy.

I think the solution is clear here. If NO is willing to engage, we should consider it. I vastly disagree on the notion that we will have to pay Jrue max dollars to stay here.

[MrDollarBills]

I can't wait for the big reveal, when we find out that 7fM and Prok are the same person, just bickering with each other for our amusement. KD would approve.

The running gag was that 7Foot is KD's RealGm Burner account

[ProspectPark]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

The NBA describes it as closest defender is within:

2-4 feet = tight
4-6 feet = open
6+ feet = wide open

Jrue Holiday on OPEN shots (No defender within 4-6 feet):

2019-2020 - 32% on 2.5 attempts
2018-2019 - 30.3% on 2.1 attempts
2017-2018 - 31.3% on 1.6 attempts

You’re not getting wide open shots in the playoffs especially in the half court in the last 5 minutes of a close when teams have AD, LeBron, Kawhi, and PG, to guard KD and Kyrie.

[ProspectPark]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

This.

If we’re defining wide open 3’s as 4-6 feet open, he’s around 37%.

If we’re talking 6’+, he’s over 40%. This is on almost 3 attempts per game. This is also for last year.

Averaging out the last 3 years he’s about 36% on everything 4-6’, maybe 38 and change from 6’ and beyond of defenders.

All of this wrong lol

4-6 feet is not considered “wide open”.

[ProspectPark]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

This.

If we’re defining wide open 3’s as 4-6 feet open, he’s around 37%.

If we’re talking 6’+, he’s over 40%. This is on almost 3 attempts per game. This is also for last year.

Averaging out the last 3 years he’s about 36% on everything 4-6’, maybe 38 and change from 6’ and beyond of defenders.

So he's hitting open threes at an excellent clip, and we will be bringing him onto a team that will see plenty of open looks based on the fact that defenses will be pissing their pants over KD and Kyrie. We need threes and defense from our starting SG. Sounds like he's the guy.

I think the solution is clear here. If NO is willing to engage, we should consider it. I vastly disagree on the notion that we will have to pay Jrue max dollars to stay here.

How much did DLo and Kemba just get?

[ProspectPark]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

This.

If we’re defining wide open 3’s as 4-6 feet open, he’s around 37%.

If we’re talking 6’+, he’s over 40%. This is on almost 3 attempts per game. This is also for last year.

Averaging out the last 3 years he’s about 36% on everything 4-6’, maybe 38 and change from 6’ and beyond of defenders.

So he's hitting open threes at an excellent clip, and we will be bringing him onto a team that will see plenty of open looks based on the fact that defenses will be pissing their pants over KD and Kyrie. We need threes and defense from our starting SG. Sounds like he's the guy.

I think the solution is clear here. If NO is willing to engage, we should consider it. I vastly disagree on the notion that we will have to pay Jrue max dollars to stay here.

How is shooting 30% on open 3’s (no defender within 4-6 feet) “excellent”??

[MGrand15]

Watch on YouTube

Jrue is great but if NO is looking for a bunch of future picks or trying to get us to overpay, I'd probably pass.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I've warmed to the idea of Jrue. He's a first class person, a great leader and locker room presence and is probably ready for a contending environment. We have discussed his middling shooting splits, but he's going to have better looks as a 3rd option.

I liken the combination of him and Kyrie to Thomas and Dumars. Joe wasn't tall either, but long, smart and determined as a defender of anyone 1 through 3. Holiday has the same mentality and versatility. If he becomes a 38% shooter from 3 in a reduced role, great. But even if he doesn't, he adds a ton of value.

FWIW, I don't think we would need to offer him a max deal in order to keep him. It may be 3 years, $84mil or something, but as many 2021 free agents as are available, I think we could retain him without getting into a bidding war.

Putting that much money into 3 players long term seems like a dumb idea though.

We all agree we need some defensive pieces. Why not invest in a couple players through the draft, trade, FA which give us some versatility.

Makes more sense than betting the farm on Holiday.

because we have a 2 year window to win a title with a top 3 player in his prime. its been 20 years since we had the last top 3-ish player with prime kidd. it may be another 20 years before we see the next one. you dont pass on that so you can "keep the farm" when the farm is a bunch of bench/role players and C level prospects/picks.

dinwiddie/levert/allen/kurucs/musa/claxton and non lotto picks are extremely replaceable.

Dinwiddie/Levert/Allen are not at all replaceable. They are all great young pieces which give us depth and versatility.

Worth more than one player who isn't even an All Star.

The league is going big and you want to go smaller.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Sim simma!:)

Otto's athleticism is not the driving force behind his above average defense. He's long, smart and knows angles. Similar to Tayshaun, he'll be able to lock down opponents of all sizes for several more years, despite not having elite run-jump ability. Also, his shooting splits and razor-thin usage would be perfect. He be our Danny Green, only a decade younger.

You're right, Dipo hasn't looked good defensively since his injury. Even his offense hadn't come all the way back. That's why he'd be a buy-low investment.

In a vacuum, sure, I would prefer my BMW over a Civic. But the beamer would cost us Dinwiddie, Allen and the #19 pick at minimum. The Civic may only cost us Dinwiddie and Prince. I'd rather park my beat-up commuter car in the garage of my mansion, than sell my house to live out of a luxury vehicle.

Eh, KD and Kyrie are the mansion, Allen and the 19 are the jet ski and the dirt bike haha.

I don't mean to minimize Allen, cause i love him for the long term potential and like him a lot as a current product, but if you're talking the difference between getting Jrue to either of Dipo or Porter is him and the 19, personally I'm going for Jrue every time.

If you told me Jrue cost Dinwiddie/Allen/19/'21 1st, but Dipo only cost Prince and the 19, then you'd have my attention. Still probably go for Jrue though and try signing his brother for the MLE.

I'm not a fan of trading Dinwiddie at this point. I think for a championship run next season, we will need both Dinwiddie and Harris.

if we can get Victor Oladipo at a reduced cost, you absolutely make that trade.

You really want Oladipo?

He has serious injury issues and will basically demand a max contract next off season. He also hasn't really played like an All Star outside of one season and a half.

I personally have no interest in taking a gamble on a guy like that.

[MGrand15]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

The NBA describes it as closest defender is within:

2-4 feet = tight
4-6 feet = open
6+ feet = wide open

Jrue Holiday on OPEN shots (No defender within 4-6 feet):

2019-2020 - 32% on 2.5 attempts
2018-2019 - 30.3% on 2.1 attempts
2017-2018 - 31.3% on 1.6 attempts

You’re not getting wide open shots in the playoffs especially in the half court in the last 5 minutes of a close when teams have AD, LeBron, Kawhi, and PG, to guard KD and Kyrie.

This is flawed premise. Of course you get wide open shots in the playoffs.

Defense has to give up something when you have KD + Kyrie on the floor. This isn't street ball - AD and Bron aren't guarding them straight up, they need to deal with helping when Joe Harris is coming off a screen, DeAndre/JA diving in for a lob, Jrue/Caris/Dinwiddie attacking off a PNR on their weakest defender, etc.

[vincecarter4pres]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

This.

If we’re defining wide open 3’s as 4-6 feet open, he’s around 37%.

If we’re talking 6’+, he’s over 40%. This is on almost 3 attempts per game. This is also for last year.

Averaging out the last 3 years he’s about 36% on everything 4-6’, maybe 38 and change from 6’ and beyond of defenders.

All of this wrong lol

4-6 feet is not considered “wide open”.

Not all of this is wrong, but I did mess up the data, it was totally unintentional, I just wrote it out wrong after talking about it over and over.

4-6' is 32%
6'+ is 40%+

Combined is about 37% on anything outside 4'.

That is for this year.

But the last 3 years it's all similar.

So my averages are correct, as are my 6'+, but I was way off on 4-6'. Instead of 37% on 4-6' I should have had 32%.

[vincecarter4pres]

I can't wait for the big reveal, when we find out that 7fM and Prok are the same person, just bickering with each other for our amusement. KD would approve.

The running gag was that 7Foot is KD's RealGm Burner account

Yeah, if he didn't hate Jrue so much I'd still feel like it might be true.

[vincecarter4pres]

This.

If we’re defining wide open 3’s as 4-6 feet open, he’s around 37%.

If we’re talking 6’+, he’s over 40%. This is on almost 3 attempts per game. This is also for last year.

Averaging out the last 3 years he’s about 36% on everything 4-6’, maybe 38 and change from 6’ and beyond of defenders.

So he's hitting open threes at an excellent clip, and we will be bringing him onto a team that will see plenty of open looks based on the fact that defenses will be pissing their pants over KD and Kyrie. We need threes and defense from our starting SG. Sounds like he's the guy.

I think the solution is clear here. If NO is willing to engage, we should consider it. I vastly disagree on the notion that we will have to pay Jrue max dollars to stay here.

How is shooting 30% on open 3’s (no defender within 4-6 feet) “excellent”??

I wish I could tell you that 7footMONSTER trolled the good troll and the statistics let him be. I wish I could tell you that. But RealGM is no fairy tale world.

No matter what, he is not shooting open 3's at 30%. It's an average of 37% on open 3's on almost 5 attempts a game the last 3 seasons.

You cannot remove the 6'+ open 3's, at 2 and a half to 3 attempts per game from that distance the last 3 years from the equation, it literally doesn't work like that.

The funny part is, you are the one with the classic Trump/GOP playbook. Remove facts, remove numbers, remove expert analysis, replace with lies, conjecture, opinion based on removal of hard data that proves the direct opposite of said opinion, keep repetitively yelling all the debunked BS and flat out lies until you speak it into existence for people too trustworthy, or too lazy to do the research themselves, or those who are tired of fact checking everything.

You also always feel the need to cheat even the "legitimate" statistics you provide. Turning 31.5 and 32%+ with 30, cheat 40% down to 37, cheat 30 years old to 31, cheating 34 to 36 years old. etc.

[ProspectPark]

So he's hitting open threes at an excellent clip, and we will be bringing him onto a team that will see plenty of open looks based on the fact that defenses will be pissing their pants over KD and Kyrie. We need threes and defense from our starting SG. Sounds like he's the guy.

I think the solution is clear here. If NO is willing to engage, we should consider it. I vastly disagree on the notion that we will have to pay Jrue max dollars to stay here.

How is shooting 30% on open 3’s (no defender within 4-6 feet) “excellent”??

I wish I could tell you that 7footMONSTER trolled the good troll and the statistics let him be. I wish I could tell you that. But RealGM is no fairy tale world.

No matter what, he is not shooting open 3's at 30%. It's an average of 37% on open 3's on almost 5 attempts a game the last 3 seasons.

You cannot remove the 6'+ open 3's, at 2 and a half to 3 attempts per game from that distance the last 3 years from the equation, it literally doesn't work like that.

The funny part is, you are the one with the classic Trump/GOP playbook. Remove facts, remove numbers, remove expert analysis, replace with lies, conjecture, opinion based on removal of hard data that proves the direct opposite of said opinion, keep repetitively yelling all the debunked BS and flat out lies until you speak it into existence for people too trustworthy, or too lazy to do the research themselves, or those who are tired of fact checking everything.

You also always feel the need to cheat even the "legitimate" statistics you provide. Turning 31.5 and 32%+ with 30, cheat 40% down to 37, cheat 30 years old to 31, cheating 34 to 36 years old. etc.

NBA makes these terms, not me.

NBA has a definition for open and wide open.

If I want to discuss specific aspects of his shot profile, specifully the shots he takes when the defender is within 4-6 feet (open), what term should I use?