Official Fire Nash thread - Part II

[ArksNetsSince99]

Btw , whats wrong with this people on netsdaily ? Lots of posters but they actually praising Nash in there and lots of Nash apologists, is this run by Nash or what ? LOL

[MrDollarBills]

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Willie Green cried after getting his team to take the fight to the Suns. Meanwhile, Nash shrugged his shoulders and made excuses about why he got thrown in a dumpster by Ime Udoka.

[ArksNetsSince99]

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Willie Green cried after getting his team to take the fight to the Suns. Meanwhile, Nash shrugged his shoulders and made excuses about why he got thrown in a dumpster by Ime Udoka.

I wish we have a coach like him , he is passionate he cares and he will improve every year , total opposite from what i saw from Nash so far

And you know loosing with coach like Willie it’s easier, at least fan’s doesn’t have a feeling they got punked

[gigantes]

I wish we have a coach like him , he is passionate he cares and he will improve every year , total opposite from what i saw from Nash so far

So... I'm not remotely a Nash-apologist, but one thing I think it's always good to keep in mind, it's that different people across different cultures can care almost the exact-same amount about something, yet act & react in hugely different ways.

Steve Nash is Canadian, for example. That's a major tell right there. Like, if you're familiar with the meaning of "Minnesota Nice," most Canadians seem to function in a highly-similar way. Kinda like trying to play pinball in a straightjacket, forced to talk about the weather, heh.

Oof, but yes-- all that's on TOP of the fact that sports fans in general have an awful, foolish, dreadful habit of drawing quick conclusions based on the most limited of information & evidence. Not saying that's you matey, in particular, not saying we're *ever* going to know even a light fraction of the behind-the-scenes story, but IMO if your aim is to be an informed, rational fan, I think it's better to be cautious about quick takes, hot cakes, and all that sort of thang. FWTW.

IMO Sean Marks is a fupping idiot in a variety of ways, but I'll give him credit for this part of the hire-- Steve Nash isn't *really* a dunce, does has strong principles, and maybe even quite the secret fire inside him. Unfortunately, little of that shizzle is the actual issue. The real problem IMO is that he was wildly-tasked with being an underling-style HC, while not having a shred of head-coaching experience. No, Steve Nash was clearly intended to be a yes-man sort of Marks-extension, while Kenny Atkinson was evidently far-more vocal and assertive about how he thought the team should be run. Indeed, there's a serious aspect of the overall calculus, suggesting that Kevin Durant & Kyrie Irving were never going to co-exist productively with Kenny, starting from day one.

To my mind, all that's... not a real good look, particularly when it comes to a team sport.

Bah. In any case, these 'KD-KI Nets,' top-to-bottom, are one of the most mismatched bags I've ever seen in my life. Unfortunately, Marks evidently believes that simply throwing more money and draft picks down the same drain is somehow going to solve the puzzle.

It really is some cra-cra shizzle. As in-- Sean Marks began his career by being one of the most gifted GM's I've seen across all of sports history, startlingly & sadly right up until the KD-KI brake-slam signings, later cruelly emphasized by the complete, nuclear-disaster of the James Harden trade... easily visible & predictable from right around Neptune's orbit, approximately.

Yeah so-- hate to say it, but since Sean Marks' glory days, I'm pretty sure my little sister's guinea pig could manage rings around Marks, and that little wheeker-squeaker knows even less about basketball than the average guinea pig. *reet!*

[ArksNetsSince99]

I wish we have a coach like him , he is passionate he cares and he will improve every year , total opposite from what i saw from Nash so far

So... I'm not remotely a Nash-apologist, but one thing I think it's always good to keep in mind, it's that different people across different cultures can care almost the exact-same amount about something, yet act & react in hugely different ways.

Steve Nash is Canadian, for example. That's a major tell right there. Like, if you're familiar with the meaning of "Minnesota Nice," most Canadians seem to function in a highly-similar way. Kinda like trying to play pinball in a straightjacket, forced to talk about the weather, heh.

Oof, but yes-- all that's on TOP of the fact that sports fans in general have an awful, foolish, dreadful habit of drawing quick conclusions based on the most limited of information & evidence. Not saying that's you matey, in particular, not saying we're *ever* going to know even a light fraction of the behind-the-scenes story, but IMO if your aim is to be an informed, rational fan, I think it's better to be cautious about quick takes, hot cakes, and all that sort of thang. FWTW.

IMO Sean Marks is a fupping idiot in a variety of ways, but I'll give him credit for this part of the hire-- Steve Nash isn't *really* a dunce, does has strong principles, and maybe even quite the secret fire inside him. Unfortunately, little of that shizzle is the actual issue. The real problem IMO is that he was wildly-tasked with being an underling-style HC, while not having a shred of head-coaching experience. No, Steve Nash was clearly intended to be a yes-man sort of Marks-extension, while Kenny Atkinson was evidently far-more vocal and assertive about how he thought the team should be run. Indeed, there's a serious aspect of the overall calculus, suggesting that Kevin Durant & Kyrie Irving were never going to co-exist productively with Kenny, starting from day one.

To my mind, all that's... not a real good look, particularly when it comes to a team sport.

Bah. In any case, these 'KD-KI Nets,' top-to-bottom, are one of the most mismatched bags I've ever seen in my life. Unfortunately, Marks evidently believes that simply throwing more money and draft picks down the same drain is somehow going to solve the puzzle.

It really is some cra-cra shizzle. As in-- Sean Marks began his career by being one of the most gifted GM's I've seen across all of sports history, startlingly & sadly right up until the KD-KI brake-slam signings, later cruelly emphasized by the complete, nuclear-disaster of the James Harden trade... easily visible & predictable from right around Neptune's orbit, approximately.

Yeah so-- hate to say it, but since Sean Marks' glory days, I'm pretty sure my little sister's guinea pig could manage rings around Marks, and that little wheeker-squeaker knows even less about basketball than the average guinea pig. *reet!*

What about Jevon Carter who performs in Celtics series on high level and supposedly last nine games yet he was trash on nets , whos responsibility it was ?

[3pt_chucker]

Nash just doesn't maximize the available talent and put everyone in the best position to win. This much is clear. He needs a 100% healthy roster to get regular season wins and even then he rides the stars way too hard.

Now, he might improve but can the team really afford to wait for him to develop?

I can already see the the team having a nasty losing streak and Nash gets fired. Fully expecting another season full of drama if he's not gone, which it looks like he's here to stay. Sigh.

[gigantes]

Now, he might improve but can the team really afford to wait for him to develop?

Bah. The Nets haven't been a 'team' for years, now.

We stopped making team-oriented decisions once Marks thoroughly enslaved himself to KI & KD's chains.

I also want to make clear that I'm in total, loser / arsehole / 'rant mode' as a fan, right now. May the lord help my pathetic, Sleestak arse.

[NyCeEvO]

Nash just doesn't maximize the available talent and put everyone in the best position to win. This much is clear. He needs a 100% healthy roster to get regular season wins and even then he rides the stars way too hard.

Now, he might improve but can the team really afford to wait for him to develop?

I can already see the the team having a nasty losing streak and Nash gets fired. Fully expecting another season full of drama if he's not gone, which it looks like he's here to stay. Sigh.

This is my biggest issue with Nash. We play so far below our capabilities as a team, it’s mind blowing that the organization tolerates it.

When we traded for Harden, virtually everyone agreed (Nets and non-Nets fans together) that we had assembled the greatest offensive trio in NBA history. Based on that alone, my expectation was that any competent coach would coast this team to a minimum of 60 wins; and that accounts for Marks not optimizing the roster and surrounding the Big 3 with lengthy, athletic 3&D specialists. If Marks had done the job he should’ve done, we should’ve been a shout for challenging the regular season wins record. Instead, we don’t even reach 50 wins.

We’re then fed the narrative that the regular season doesn’t really matter, and that we just need to be healthy for the playoffs. Granted, I do believe that if Kyrie and Harden finished the Bucks series healthy, that we’d have won; but I don’t assume like everyone else that we’d have definitely won the title. We’ve repeatedly seen how Nash struggles to adapt to changes presented by good opposing coaches. I don’t think there’s any guarantee we’d have beat the Suns with Nash at the helm.

This is the first time as a fan where I’m disappointed with all facets of the organization: from the constant PR spin of the Nets brass, to drama and acceptance of mediocrity from the star players, and to the subpar management of the roster by Marks, to even the medical staff for no longer being able to keep our players healthy for a sustained period of time.

But back to Nash…I’ve never heard a coach give so many excuses implicitly suggesting that they should lose. Coaches have always been responsible for team performances, even when it wasn’t their fault. We’ve done the opposite, and have looked for every excuse in the book to justify and explain why Nash isn’t responsible and why it was virtually impossible to win. Anyone who gives the amount of excuses Nash gives isn’t fit to lead a team, especially one that has championship aspirations.

[MrDollarBills]

Nash just doesn't maximize the available talent and put everyone in the best position to win. This much is clear. He needs a 100% healthy roster to get regular season wins and even then he rides the stars way too hard.

Now, he might improve but can the team really afford to wait for him to develop?

I can already see the the team having a nasty losing streak and Nash gets fired. Fully expecting another season full of drama if he's not gone, which it looks like he's here to stay. Sigh.

This is my biggest issue with Nash. We play so far below our capabilities as a team, it’s mind blowing that the organization tolerates it.

When we traded for Harden, virtually everyone agreed (Nets and non-Nets fans together) that we had assembled the greatest offensive trio in NBA history. Based on that alone, my expectation was that any competent coach would coast this team to a minimum of 60 wins; and that accounts for Marks not optimizing the roster and surrounding the Big 3 with lengthy, athletic 3&D specialists. If Marks had done the job he should’ve done, we should’ve been a shout for challenging the regular season wins record. Instead, we don’t even reach 50 wins.

We’re then fed the narrative that the regular season doesn’t really matter, and that we just need to be healthy for the playoffs. Granted, I do believe that if Kyrie and Harden finished the Bucks series healthy, that we’d have won; but I don’t assume like everyone else that we’d have definitely won the title. We’ve repeatedly seen how Nash struggles to adapt to changes presented by good opposing coaches. I don’t think there’s any guarantee we’d have beat the Suns with Nash at the helm.

This is the first time as a fan where I’m disappointed with all facets of the organization: from the constant PR spin of the Nets brass, to drama and acceptance of mediocrity from the star players, and to the subpar management of the roster by Marks, to even the medical staff for no longer being able to keep our players healthy for a sustained period of time.

But back to Nash…I’ve never heard a coach give so many excuses implicitly suggesting that they should lose. Coaches have always been responsible for team performances, even when it wasn’t their fault. We’ve done the opposite, and have looked for every excuse in the book to justify and explain why Nash isn’t responsible and why it was virtually impossible to win. Anyone who gives the amount of excuses Nash gives isn’t fit to lead a team, especially one that has championship aspirations.

Let's also not absolve Joe Tsai here. This ship started to go down the moment he went over Marks' head in regards to Atkinson.

He enables this culture of failure and no accountability. Kyrie should have been sent packing the moment he lied to the Nets about going to get vaccinated.

[NyCeEvO]

Nash just doesn't maximize the available talent and put everyone in the best position to win. This much is clear. He needs a 100% healthy roster to get regular season wins and even then he rides the stars way too hard.

Now, he might improve but can the team really afford to wait for him to develop?

I can already see the the team having a nasty losing streak and Nash gets fired. Fully expecting another season full of drama if he's not gone, which it looks like he's here to stay. Sigh.

This is my biggest issue with Nash. We play so far below our capabilities as a team, it’s mind blowing that the organization tolerates it.

When we traded for Harden, virtually everyone agreed (Nets and non-Nets fans together) that we had assembled the greatest offensive trio in NBA history. Based on that alone, my expectation was that any competent coach would coast this team to a minimum of 60 wins; and that accounts for Marks not optimizing the roster and surrounding the Big 3 with lengthy, athletic 3&D specialists. If Marks had done the job he should’ve done, we should’ve been a shout for challenging the regular season wins record. Instead, we don’t even reach 50 wins.

We’re then fed the narrative that the regular season doesn’t really matter, and that we just need to be healthy for the playoffs. Granted, I do believe that if Kyrie and Harden finished the Bucks series healthy, that we’d have won; but I don’t assume like everyone else that we’d have definitely won the title. We’ve repeatedly seen how Nash struggles to adapt to changes presented by good opposing coaches. I don’t think there’s any guarantee we’d have beat the Suns with Nash at the helm.

This is the first time as a fan where I’m disappointed with all facets of the organization: from the constant PR spin of the Nets brass, to drama and acceptance of mediocrity from the star players, and to the subpar management of the roster by Marks, to even the medical staff for no longer being able to keep our players healthy for a sustained period of time.

But back to Nash…I’ve never heard a coach give so many excuses implicitly suggesting that they should lose. Coaches have always been responsible for team performances, even when it wasn’t their fault. We’ve done the opposite, and have looked for every excuse in the book to justify and explain why Nash isn’t responsible and why it was virtually impossible to win. Anyone who gives the amount of excuses Nash gives isn’t fit to lead a team, especially one that has championship aspirations.

Let's also not absolve Joe Tsai here. This ship started to go down the moment he went over Marks' head in regards to Atkinson.

He enables this culture of failure and no accountability. Kyrie should have been sent packing the moment he lied to the Nets about going to get vaccinated.

I have no reason to doubt you, but have the reports about Tsai’s involvement been confirmed?

If what you’re saying is true, that’s huge because it could mean that Marks has become a puppet GM who merely does the bidding of the owner and the stars that the owner wants.

[therealbig3]

I'll tell you this much, give me Nash the player over Kyrie or Durant anyday. Dude would not have been embarrassed by the Celtics like they were.

[Claud]

We can't win a chip with Nash as our coach.

Marks **** up. Nash should have been an assistant or something else first.

Our offense is super predictable and our defense keeps switching even when it isn't favorable to switch.

MDA and Udoka saved our bacon last season. Unless Nash makes a huge jump I just don't see it.

To win you need elite players, top coaching + management.

This is still an issue.

Even with a top 5 roster, I don't have high hopes the coaching staff will maximize what we have.

[gigantes]

This is my biggest issue with Nash. We play so far below our capabilities as a team, it’s mind blowing that the organization tolerates it.

When we traded for Harden, virtually everyone agreed (Nets and non-Nets fans together) that we had assembled the greatest offensive trio in NBA history. Based on that alone, my expectation was that any competent coach would coast this team to a minimum of 60 wins; and that accounts for Marks not optimizing the roster and surrounding the Big 3 with lengthy, athletic 3&D specialists. If Marks had done the job he should’ve done, we should’ve been a shout for challenging the regular season wins record. Instead, we don’t even reach 50 wins.

We’re then fed the narrative that the regular season doesn’t really matter, and that we just need to be healthy for the playoffs. Granted, I do believe that if Kyrie and Harden finished the Bucks series healthy, that we’d have won; but I don’t assume like everyone else that we’d have definitely won the title. We’ve repeatedly seen how Nash struggles to adapt to changes presented by good opposing coaches. I don’t think there’s any guarantee we’d have beat the Suns with Nash at the helm.

This is the first time as a fan where I’m disappointed with all facets of the organization: from the constant PR spin of the Nets brass, to drama and acceptance of mediocrity from the star players, and to the subpar management of the roster by Marks, to even the medical staff for no longer being able to keep our players healthy for a sustained period of time.

But back to Nash…I’ve never heard a coach give so many excuses implicitly suggesting that they should lose. Coaches have always been responsible for team performances, even when it wasn’t their fault. We’ve done the opposite, and have looked for every excuse in the book to justify and explain why Nash isn’t responsible and why it was virtually impossible to win. Anyone who gives the amount of excuses Nash gives isn’t fit to lead a team, especially one that has championship aspirations.

Let's also not absolve Joe Tsai here. This ship started to go down the moment he went over Marks' head in regards to Atkinson.

He enables this culture of failure and no accountability. Kyrie should have been sent packing the moment he lied to the Nets about going to get vaccinated.

I have no reason to doubt you, but have the reports about Tsai’s involvement been confirmed?

If what you’re saying is true, that’s huge because it could mean that Marks has become a puppet GM who merely does the bidding of the owner and the stars that the owner wants.

Good question, although it's really hard for me to resolve that compared to the same guy who was super-bold enough to make a genius-level series of swaps & signings to take the Nets from the absolute gutter (with barely any future) all the way to a team almost everyone adored (Brooklyn Grit) across only a couple years. To me it was an astonishing job of GM'ing, the likes I'd never seen before.

Personally, I think Marks then got a bit drunk on his own flatulence, and when he fluffed up jumped for the prize in signing KI&KD, he started down a path with loads of consequences, not unlike a poker player who raises big on a good-but-not-great hand, then suffers a load of re-raises, hoping to hit that final card. Certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened across... way more than just poker.

Also, looking at pictures..
is it just me, or does Sean look seriously older than he did just five years ago?
Stress-biscuits, or..?

We can't win a chip with Nash as our coach.

Marks **** up. Nash should have been an assistant or something else first.

Our offense is super predictable and our defense keeps switching even when it isn't favorable to switch.

MDA and Udoka saved our bacon last season. Unless Nash makes a huge jump I just don't see it.

To win you need elite players, top coaching + management.

This is still an issue.

Even with a top 5 roster, I don't have high hopes the coaching staff will maximize what we have.

Yup. Now if only Dem-voters could get that kind of plurality, meanwhile democracy itself being torn down, brick by brick, mainly for the sake of big money. But I digress.

So, anyway.. what's Sean Marks' single-biggest screw-up of all time? Is it the Harden trade with HOU, or the Nash hire? Or something else?

Just spitballing, but... the latter was totally baffling, and didn't make a shred of sense, while the former was like tripling-down on a losing cause. Both of them again, like totally overplaying one's hand.

[Karate Diop]

Let's also not absolve Joe Tsai here. This ship started to go down the moment he went over Marks' head in regards to Atkinson.

He enables this culture of failure and no accountability. Kyrie should have been sent packing the moment he lied to the Nets about going to get vaccinated.

I have no reason to doubt you, but have the reports about Tsai’s involvement been confirmed?

If what you’re saying is true, that’s huge because it could mean that Marks has become a puppet GM who merely does the bidding of the owner and the stars that the owner wants.

Good question, although it's really hard for me to resolve that compared to the same guy who was super-bold enough to make a genius-level series of swaps & signings to take the Nets from the absolute gutter (with barely any future) all the way to a team almost everyone adored (Brooklyn Grit) across only a couple years. To me it was an astonishing job of GM'ing, the likes I'd never seen before.

Personally, I think Marks then got a bit drunk on his own flatulence, and when he fluffed up jumped for the prize in signing KI&KD, he started down a path with loads of consequences, not unlike a poker player who raises big on a good-but-not-great hand, then suffers a load of re-raises, hoping to hit that final card. Certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened across... way more than just poker.

Also, looking at pictures..
is it just me, or does Sean look seriously older than he did just five years ago?
Stress-biscuits, or..?

We can't win a chip with Nash as our coach.

Marks **** up. Nash should have been an assistant or something else first.

Our offense is super predictable and our defense keeps switching even when it isn't favorable to switch.

MDA and Udoka saved our bacon last season. Unless Nash makes a huge jump I just don't see it.

To win you need elite players, top coaching + management.

This is still an issue.

Even with a top 5 roster, I don't have high hopes the coaching staff will maximize what we have.

Yup. Now if only Dem-voters could get that kind of plurality, meanwhile democracy itself being torn down, brick by brick, mainly for the sake of big money. But I digress.

So, anyway.. what's Sean Marks' single-biggest screw-up of all time? Is it the Harden trade with HOU, or the Nash hire? Or something else?

Just spitballing, but... the latter was totally baffling, and didn't make a shred of sense, while the former was like tripling-down on a losing cause. Both of them again, like totally overplaying one's hand.

Harden trade you make 100 out of 100 times. Nobody knew he was going to fall off this quick and that he'd demand a trade after originally demanding a trade here....

[GTR11]

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Finally we can put this ludacris talks about Ayton away. Giving him contract that he seeks is utter stupidity. He's not even good enough to be 3rd wheel.

[gigantes]

I have no reason to doubt you, but have the reports about Tsai’s involvement been confirmed?

If what you’re saying is true, that’s huge because it could mean that Marks has become a puppet GM who merely does the bidding of the owner and the stars that the owner wants.

Good question, although it's really hard for me to resolve that compared to the same guy who was super-bold enough to make a genius-level series of swaps & signings to take the Nets from the absolute gutter (with barely any future) all the way to a team almost everyone adored (Brooklyn Grit) across only a couple years. To me it was an astonishing job of GM'ing, the likes I'd never seen before.

Personally, I think Marks then got a bit drunk on his own flatulence, and when he fluffed up jumped for the prize in signing KI&KD, he started down a path with loads of consequences, not unlike a poker player who raises big on a good-but-not-great hand, then suffers a load of re-raises, hoping to hit that final card. Certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened across... way more than just poker.

Also, looking at pictures..
is it just me, or does Sean look seriously older than he did just five years ago?
Stress-biscuits, or..?

We can't win a chip with Nash as our coach.

Marks **** up. Nash should have been an assistant or something else first.

Our offense is super predictable and our defense keeps switching even when it isn't favorable to switch.

MDA and Udoka saved our bacon last season. Unless Nash makes a huge jump I just don't see it.

To win you need elite players, top coaching + management.

This is still an issue.

Even with a top 5 roster, I don't have high hopes the coaching staff will maximize what we have.

Yup. Now if only Dem-voters could get that kind of plurality, meanwhile democracy itself being torn down, brick by brick, mainly for the sake of big money. But I digress.

So, anyway.. what's Sean Marks' single-biggest screw-up of all time? Is it the Harden trade with HOU, or the Nash hire? Or something else?

Just spitballing, but... the latter was totally baffling, and didn't make a shred of sense, while the former was like tripling-down on a losing cause. Both of them again, like totally overplaying one's hand.

Harden trade you make 100 out of 100 times. Nobody knew he was going to fall off this quick and that he'd demand a trade after originally demanding a trade here....

lol

[Netaman]

1 key point about whoever the Brooklyn coach is:

Kyrie was willing to give up $30m+ and a prime year of his career on a roster with his best friend because of his craziness.

there are no words from any coach or gm that are going to fix the problems he created last year and no words that will stop him from doing so in the future. he was rumored to be considering giving up another $30m to get out of here.

i think nash sucks too but it's like complaining about a bandaid not being a good enough solution to stopping the blood from your amputated leg. the bandaid isn't the issue. go ahead and fire nash but we are still bleeding out because kyrie made this place toxic.

[TheNetsFan]

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Finally we can put this ludacris talks about Ayton away. Giving him contract that he seeks is utter stupidity. He's not even good enough to be 3rd wheel.

The Nets "almost certainly" cannot field a team of KD+Kyrie+Simmons+Ayton. They sure as hell can acquire Ayton if Kyrie, Simmons or KD are moved & return less money.

There's A LOT of Ayton to Brooklyn smoke. Reporters, Vegas, etc. There's the reports that KD isn't engaged & isn't recruiting FAs. I don't think a reset is off the table. You could do much worse than rebuilding around Simmons (25), Ayton (23) & the hauls you get back for KD & Kyrie.

[Netaman]

Read on Twitter

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Finally we can put this ludacris talks about Ayton away. Giving him contract that he seeks is utter stupidity. He's not even good enough to be 3rd wheel.

The Nets "almost certainly" cannot field a team of KD+Kyrie+Simmons+Ayton. They sure as hell can acquire Ayton if Kyrie, Simmons or KD are moved & return less money.

There's A LOT of Ayton to Brooklyn smoke. Reporters, Vegas, etc. There's the reports that KD isn't engaged & isn't recruiting FAs. I don't think a reset is off the table. You could do much worse than rebuilding around Simmons (25), Ayton (23) & the hauls you get back for KD & Kyrie.

what would need to get accomplished with a kyrie trade that puts an Ayton max on the table?

i.e. if the nets trade him for dinwiddie and salary filler that saves $6m or so, does that get them close or do they need to do more maneuvering than that?

[TheNetsFan]

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?s=20&t=xVIHIP8DeaaAAItPo2ICLA

Finally we can put this ludacris talks about Ayton away. Giving him contract that he seeks is utter stupidity. He's not even good enough to be 3rd wheel.

The Nets "almost certainly" cannot field a team of KD+Kyrie+Simmons+Ayton. They sure as hell can acquire Ayton if Kyrie, Simmons or KD are moved & return less money.

There's A LOT of Ayton to Brooklyn smoke. Reporters, Vegas, etc. There's the reports that KD isn't engaged & isn't recruiting FAs. I don't think a reset is off the table. You could do much worse than rebuilding around Simmons (25), Ayton (23) & the hauls you get back for KD & Kyrie.

what would need to get accomplished with a kyrie trade that puts an Ayton max on the table?

i.e. if the nets trade him for dinwiddie and salary filler that saves $6m or so, does that get them close or do they need to do more maneuvering than that?

It depends on whether we're filling out the roster with minimums or actually wanting to bring back Brown and use some exceptions.