***Official 2021-22 Offseason Thread***

[gigantes]

Kyrie is gone, and it's not about the money. There is no mutual trust anymore, and if the club doesn't want Kyrie back, they are entitled to that. But KD won't be happy with this, that's for sure. His championship window has closed in one year basically.

Gone where? Who is backing up the truck to give a 4 year max?

The Nets want him to pick up his option. They might give him an extra year or two, but that it. If he's willing to walk for less money because he feels disrespected, so be it.

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Seems like you're kind of forgetting that KI prefers to play in his hometown and prefers to play with his best friend.

Sure, he'll predictably feel 'disrespected' by the Nets treating him as the lunatic-narcissist that he is, but that's something that puts him in his feels, not something that automatically causes him to bounce. Because for him, BRK and KD is his dream. CLE and BOS were entirely different situations, by comparison.

Both sides are kinda stuck with each other, so they're going to have to figure something out.

[Gooner]

Gone where? Who is backing up the truck to give a 4 year max?

The Nets want him to pick up his option. They might give him an extra year or two, but that it. If he's willing to walk for less money because he feels disrespected, so be it.

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Seems like you're kind of forgetting that KI prefers to play in his hometown and prefers to play with his best friend.

Sure, he'll predictably feel 'disrespected' by the Nets treating him as the lunatic-narcissist that he is, but that's something that puts him in his feels, not something that automatically causes him to bounce. Because for him, BRK and KD is his dream. CLE and BOS were entirely different situations, by comparison.

Both sides are kinda stuck with each other, so they're going to have to figure something out.

He is not a lunatic or a narcissist, he is just different. He is liked by real people who know him in real life. All players respect Kyrie. Journalists, corporations and fans who only see him as a product don't matter.

The disrespect from the organization could cause Kyrie to bounce because he values respect and integrity more than his basketball career. I mean, he showed it in this vaccine situation. He can get a 1-2 year deal somewhere else and that's all it takes for him to leave.

[gigantes]

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Seems like you're kind of forgetting that KI prefers to play in his hometown and prefers to play with his best friend.

Sure, he'll predictably feel 'disrespected' by the Nets treating him as the lunatic-narcissist that he is, but that's something that puts him in his feels, not something that automatically causes him to bounce. Because for him, BRK and KD is his dream. CLE and BOS were entirely different situations, by comparison.

Both sides are kinda stuck with each other, so they're going to have to figure something out.

He is not a lunatic or a narcissist, he is just different. He is liked by real people who know him in real life. All players respect Kyrie. Journalists, corporations and fans who only see him as a product don't matter.

The disrespect from the organization could cause Kyrie to bounce because he values respect and integrity more than his basketball career. I mean, he showed it in this vaccine situation. He can get a 1-2 year deal somewhere else and that's all it takes for him to leave.

TBH, sounds like Kyrie's teammates like him well enough, so that's a good sign. As for others who like him in real life, so what? We're not talking about a popularity contest here, we're talking about someone paid a fortune to DO THEIR JOB.

The Nets have done nothing but bend over backwards to accommodate Kyrie since he got here, and he's been a PITA literally from day one, when he was asked to wear some physical tracking equipment that everyone else on the team was wearing. He refused, and I imagine the main reason we didn't hear more of those stories over the years is that Marks made a huge internal point not to leak anymore of that stuff.

Kyrie a huge narcissist? You betcha, for a wide range of seasons going back years, but it was his nonsensical anti-mandate stuff that really sealed the deal for me. Not only was it 1) intensely stupid, misguided and useless, 2) it made no rational sense anyway in the mandate-filled world we already live in, like wearing seatbelts, kids and military folks getting properly vaxxed, living in accordance to local laws, and a million other examples, 3) it was hugely reckless in terms of not taking CV19 seriously, which directly created an active, ongoing danger not only to himself, his immediate family, his circle of contacts, but his local area, and even the USA in general. Just like other plenty of other folks, of course, except that when you're rich and famous, both your pros and cons tend to stand out more.

"He can get a 1-2 year deal somewhere else and that's all it takes for him to leave."

Sure, in a parallel fantasy-world, yes, where his dream home isn't BRK and his best friend isn't Kevin Durant. At the very least it would be a major crisis for him. Not that it probably matters too much when you're not even sure how gravity works, or how to call in sick when you randomly decide to take a chunk of the season off, or think that a dark cabal of nefarious interests is secretly injecting you with bio-powered microchips because they want to know... *something* about you.

Honestly, if I'm in the Nets, I'd be absolutely thrilled to S&T something of equal value for him and not have to put up with Kyrie's lunacy ever again. If Durant demands a trade, then let's get some nice assets in return and start the inevitable rebuild sooner rather than later.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2172585

[Gooner]

Seems like you're kind of forgetting that KI prefers to play in his hometown and prefers to play with his best friend.

Sure, he'll predictably feel 'disrespected' by the Nets treating him as the lunatic-narcissist that he is, but that's something that puts him in his feels, not something that automatically causes him to bounce. Because for him, BRK and KD is his dream. CLE and BOS were entirely different situations, by comparison.

Both sides are kinda stuck with each other, so they're going to have to figure something out.

He is not a lunatic or a narcissist, he is just different. He is liked by real people who know him in real life. All players respect Kyrie. Journalists, corporations and fans who only see him as a product don't matter.

The disrespect from the organization could cause Kyrie to bounce because he values respect and integrity more than his basketball career. I mean, he showed it in this vaccine situation. He can get a 1-2 year deal somewhere else and that's all it takes for him to leave.

TBH, sounds like Kyrie's teammates like him well enough, so that's a good sign. As for others who like him in real life, so what? We're not talking about a popularity contest here, we're talking about someone paid a fortune to DO THEIR JOB.

The Nets have done nothing but bend over backwards to accommodate Kyrie since he got here, and he's been a PITA literally from day one, when he was asked to wear some physical tracking equipment that everyone else on the team was wearing. He refused, and I imagine the main reason we didn't hear more of those stories over the years is that Marks made a huge internal point not to leak anymore of that stuff.

Kyrie a huge narcissist? You betcha, for a wide range of seasons going back years, but it was his nonsensical anti-mandate stuff that really sealed the deal for me. Not only was it 1) intensely stupid, misguided and useless, 2) it made no rational sense anyway in the mandate-filled world we already live in, like wearing seatbelts, kids and military folks getting properly vaxxed, living in accordance to local laws, and a million other examples, 3) it was hugely reckless in terms of not taking CV19 seriously, which directly created an active, ongoing danger not only to himself, his immediate family, his circle of contacts, but his local area, and even the USA in general. Just like other plenty of other folks, of course, except that when you're rich and famous, both your pros and cons tend to stand out more.

"He can get a 1-2 year deal somewhere else and that's all it takes for him to leave."

Sure, in a parallel fantasy-world, yes, where his dream home isn't BRK and his best friend isn't Kevin Durant. At the very least it would be a major crisis for him. Not that it probably matters too much when you're not even sure how gravity works, or how to call in sick when you randomly decide to take a chunk of the season off, or think that a dark cabal of nefarious interests is secretly injecting you with bio-powered microchips because they want to know... *something* about you.

Honestly, if I'm in the Nets, I'd be absolutely thrilled to S&T something of equal value for him and not have to put up with Kyrie's lunacy ever again. If Durant demands a trade, then let's get some nice assets in return and start the inevitable rebuild sooner rather than later.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2172585

Not gonna get into this whole vaccine debate, becuase you and I have the exact opposite position, but here is the fact: Kyrie refused to take the vaccine and he wasn't allowed to play home games because of it and Nets didn't want him to play as a part time player away from home. And then what happened? They allowed Kyrie to come back and play because of what? Because of covid. All these vaccinated players were getting infected day by day, and they had to bring unvaccinated Kyrie to help them. Ironic isn't it?

[GTR11]

Kyrie is gone, and it's not about the money. There is no mutual trust anymore, and if the club doesn't want Kyrie back, they are entitled to that. But KD won't be happy with this, that's for sure. His championship window has closed in one year basically.

Gone where? Who is backing up the truck to give a 4 year max?

The Nets want him to pick up his option. They might give him an extra year or two, but that it. If he's willing to walk for less money because he feels disrespected, so be it.

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Hold on, isn’t it what Nets saying to him right now. I think you clearly missing importance of CBA and secured money aspect. Next CBA can/will look a lot different.

2. I remember Nets not offering Kyrie extension due to uncertainty of his vaccine status. I remember Harden not signing it and not picking option.
I really wonder why Tsai/Marks were willing to give Harden extension, who literally quit on a team but not Kyrie who wants to be here. Isn't it odd?

[flow]

dlo(Irving to Min for Dlo, McDaniels, Naz Reid and couple 1sts)
Joe Harris
Jaden McDaniels
Ben Simmons
AD(KD to for AD)

Seth curry
Patty Mills
Bruce Brown
Claxton/Griffin
Drummonds/Naz Reid

Would be awesome to watch...good balance of 3 pt shooting and rebding and defense.

Minny's not doing that. They finally have things pointing in the right direction. Why would they sabotage it? They need only look to the Nets experience. Plus, they're high on McDaniels. There are less destructive ways to trade Dlo.

[NetsWorld]

Kyrie is gone, and it's not about the money. There is no mutual trust anymore, and if the club doesn't want Kyrie back, they are entitled to that. But KD won't be happy with this, that's for sure. His championship window has closed in one year basically.

Gone where? Who is backing up the truck to give a 4 year max?

The Nets want him to pick up his option. They might give him an extra year or two, but that it. If he's willing to walk for less money because he feels disrespected, so be it.

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Ah so let's pretend he was not pulling any antics in the 20-21 season and 19-20 season. And he is a huge reason this past season was derailed. Kyrie disrespected the Nets organization and has disrespected plenty of fanbases already and shown his true colors. If Marks has to rebuild, so be it. Rebuilding is not a five year process anymore like it used to be; Rebuilding now happens within two years. Marks can salvage PLENTY of value for KD if he doesn't want to be here; the coaching staff should improve. Simmons still has plenty of potential. Of course, this is all presuming Kyrie/KD are goners.

[gigantes]

Not gonna get into this whole vaccine debate, becuase you and I have the exact opposite position, but here is the fact: Kyrie refused to take the vaccine and he wasn't allowed to play home games because of it and Nets didn't want him to play as a part time player away from home. And then what happened? They allowed Kyrie to come back and play because of what? Because of covid. All these vaccinated players were getting infected day by day, and they had to bring unvaccinated Kyrie to help them. Ironic isn't it?

There is no "vaccine debate" that I know of. The overwhelming body of medical and science experts, from the top on down, agree that vaccines are safe & effective, and that we're still in the middle of the worst global pandemic in ~100 years. If you have a belief system that says otherwise, then you probably want to ask yourself who manipulated you in to believing that, or what's causing you to fail to understand basic science.

Also, you do understand that the NBA wasn't holding players out because they were getting ill with CV19, right? They were holding them out because they were contagious, in order to prevent the spread of the disease. Because you can be vaccinated and still briefly catch one of the mutations, only lasting in your system a few hours or days. It happens all the time.

See, the point of getting the vaccinations isn't to become totally immune to all future strains of CV19; the point is to greatly enhance your immune system's ability to fight repeat infections off. Very few (if any?) vaccinated players have fallen significantly ill with covid, in fact. IIRC Jason Tatum and DWiddie got significantly sick last summer, but I don't know if they'd had their shots yet.

I think you need to do some proper research, my man. Recommend starting with legit sources, like encyclopedias and such.

[TheNetsFan]

Looking around the league I noticed that there's more than enough teams that can create cap space. Here's few of them that do it:
1. Duh nix -> can move Obi with Rose to Det/Indy/San An/OKC. Couple 2nd rounders if to make sure they stay happy.
2. ATL-> can move Collins/Gallo combo. There will be takers for sure.
3. CAVS -> Love is expiring. Teams take type contracts.
4. Charlotte-> can dump Oubre 12m for couple 2nd rounders. Sign him up straight up.
5. Kings -> just don't pick DiVichenzo option.
6. Raps -> move FVV for a pick, gives them max slot.
7. PHX -> move Bridges with filler. Sign straight up.
Another 5 teams can just sign him outright without any moves. Than we have teams like Lakers/Nuggets/Miami who going to need our help.

Better question is. What GM willing to give Kyrie max. That contract can easily get them fired. Knowing Kyrie reputation, not many GM's will take that chance.

I think most realistic chance here is LA and NY. Dolan and Buss can take that gamble.

Try again.

1) Shedding Rose & Obi only gets the Knicks to $12mil in space. Not nearly enough for a $42mil max.
2) ATL dumping both Collins & Gallo, while renouncing every FA only gets them to $6mil in space.
3) CLE dumping Love for nothing & renouncing all FAs including Sexton only gets them to $21mil in cap space.
4) CHA dumping Oubre & renouncing every FA including Miles Bridges (not happening) only gets them to $16mil in cap space.
5) SAC renouncing all FAs including DDV gets them to about $6.5mil in cal space.
6) Raps trading FVV for no salary back & renouncing every FA gets them to about $25mil in space.
7) PHX moving Bridges for no salary & renouncing every FA including Ayton gets them to about $10mil in cap space.

[TheNetsFan]

Gone where? Who is backing up the truck to give a 4 year max?

The Nets want him to pick up his option. They might give him an extra year or two, but that it. If he's willing to walk for less money because he feels disrespected, so be it.

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Hold on, isn’t it what Nets saying to him right now. I think you clearly missing importance of CBA and secured money aspect. Next CBA can/will look a lot different.

2. I remember Nets not offering Kyrie extension due to uncertainty of his vaccine status. I remember Harden not signing it and not picking option.
I really wonder why Tsai/Marks were willing to give Harden extension, who literally quit on a team but not Kyrie who wants to be here. Isn't it odd?

Exactly. Is he really going to leave for a 1-2 year deal elsewhere instead of staying here on a 1-2 year deal? The Nets don't want to get rid of him. They just don't want to commit to a long-term deal with him.

[MGrand15]

It sucks but do you honestly see this situation working out? Kyrie is unstable, Ben is scared to get back on the court, and KD is going to be 34 next season. Nash is completely inept.

This has been a failure. I'm not sure how this will turnaround.

We were the best team in the league last year before injuries. I'm not ready to blow it up because we had 1 disaster year. KD is 34 and he was so good last year he was All NBA 2nd team while missing 30 games. If Marks builds a roster that actually makes sense, we're right back in the mix. It's not rocket science - literally every single team in the playoffs was built better than we were. That includes the Pelicans who made it only cause of the play-in. Marks was spectacularly bad last off-season + this season.

I honestly think some fans (not you specifically) forget what rebuilding is. We had the ONE fun year with Kenny, DLo, etc. Every year before that in Brooklyn was straight up miserable. We go from potential contender to a 25 win team hoping that Cam Thomas turns into an all star. I could watch the Knicks if I want to see that kind of stuff.

The rebuilding Nets under Kenny were barely even a 'rebuilding team' the first through second seasons, so that's not a fair assessment IMO. To be me they were more like a mismatched collection of oddballs & stray parts, heavy on discards by other teams.

By contrast, most rebuilding teams actually start with some pretty good drafted prospects, which may or may not work out. But either way, there's at least a decent ceiling. Those Nets teams must have had one of the lowest ceilings in NBA history.

But even so, watching Kenny transform them in to a hard-nosed team that consistently stole games from much better teams was fun for me to watch even by season two. Or maybe that's just me, because I've never been one of those pouters who was only happy if a team had title aspirations.

Anyway, moving ahead, I disagree with you again that we only had 'one disaster season.' Even Harden's first year was a disaster in all kinds of avoidable ways, such as Nash chronically overplaying Harden, leading to an almost inevitable injury, to Kyrie deciding to play whenever the hell he felt like it, notifying the team whenever the hell he felt like it, to Marks installing a complete amateur of a HC.

So that's two disaster seasons in a row, looking pretty good to go 3 for 3 now, locked in to an aging, overplayed star who's at a growing risk to get injured, a borderline cancer as his running mate, a HC still way over his head, a mediocre coaching staff, a third star who even if he gets healthy, has question marks everywhere about his game, and barely the cap space to sign useful players to fit around them. All hail Bruce Brown, of course.

I would be 100% okay blowing this team sky-high for whatever draft assets were available, hiring a real coach, then doing a proper rebuild this time, and not panicking like last time.

Or would you prefer wasting yet more time only to keep dreaming futile teams?

Last year we were 4th in the league with the best offense of all time and we crushed all the elite teams + teams over .500. That was while battling injuries all year. I wasn't a fan of the minute distribution or Steve Nash but calling it a DISASTER is a huge stretch. If it wasn't for injuries in the playoffs, we were the favorite to win it all and we had the champs on the ropes. This board was pretty damn confident in the team on a daily basis.

If you think actually trying to compete for a chip is a waste of time, cool - I disagree. Championship windows in the NBA are small. We've seen teams easily start a rebuild that lasts forever before they have to settle for mediocrity. Then they have to rebuild again. If you have a chance, you need to squeeze the life out of it before you give up. I personally think a team with KD, Kyrie, Ben, and Joe Harris absolutely has a chance if you build correctly. If we fail, I'd rather go out swinging. Not give up before we actually give the trio 1 game together.

Golden State obviously has a better organization and coach than we do but they're a pretty clear example of what a smart summer + some development + health can do. They missed the playoffs last year with 3 of their top 4 mostly healthy. Curry played in 63 out of 72 games. They didn't panic. They waited for Klay to get healthy. They signed some minimum/fringe guys that fit the team perfectly in Gary Payton, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Igoudala. They empowered their young guys. Got rid of negative players. Now they're a powerhouse.

[MrDollarBills]

We were the best team in the league last year before injuries. I'm not ready to blow it up because we had 1 disaster year. KD is 34 and he was so good last year he was All NBA 2nd team while missing 30 games. If Marks builds a roster that actually makes sense, we're right back in the mix. It's not rocket science - literally every single team in the playoffs was built better than we were. That includes the Pelicans who made it only cause of the play-in. Marks was spectacularly bad last off-season + this season.

I honestly think some fans (not you specifically) forget what rebuilding is. We had the ONE fun year with Kenny, DLo, etc. Every year before that in Brooklyn was straight up miserable. We go from potential contender to a 25 win team hoping that Cam Thomas turns into an all star. I could watch the Knicks if I want to see that kind of stuff.

The rebuilding Nets under Kenny were barely even a 'rebuilding team' the first through second seasons, so that's not a fair assessment IMO. To be me they were more like a mismatched collection of oddballs & stray parts, heavy on discards by other teams.

By contrast, most rebuilding teams actually start with some pretty good drafted prospects, which may or may not work out. But either way, there's at least a decent ceiling. Those Nets teams must have had one of the lowest ceilings in NBA history.

But even so, watching Kenny transform them in to a hard-nosed team that consistently stole games from much better teams was fun for me to watch even by season two. Or maybe that's just me, because I've never been one of those pouters who was only happy if a team had title aspirations.

Anyway, moving ahead, I disagree with you again that we only had 'one disaster season.' Even Harden's first year was a disaster in all kinds of avoidable ways, such as Nash chronically overplaying Harden, leading to an almost inevitable injury, to Kyrie deciding to play whenever the hell he felt like it, notifying the team whenever the hell he felt like it, to Marks installing a complete amateur of a HC.

So that's two disaster seasons in a row, looking pretty good to go 3 for 3 now, locked in to an aging, overplayed star who's at a growing risk to get injured, a borderline cancer as his running mate, a HC still way over his head, a mediocre coaching staff, a third star who even if he gets healthy, has question marks everywhere about his game, and barely the cap space to sign useful players to fit around them. All hail Bruce Brown, of course.

I would be 100% okay blowing this team sky-high for whatever draft assets were available, hiring a real coach, then doing a proper rebuild this time, and not panicking like last time.

Or would you prefer wasting yet more time only to keep dreaming futile teams?

Last year we were 4th in the league with the best offense of all time and we crushed all the elite teams + teams over .500. That was while battling injuries all year. I wasn't a fan of the minute distribution or Steve Nash but calling it a DISASTER is a huge stretch. If it wasn't for injuries in the playoffs, we were the favorite to win it all and we had the champs on the ropes. This board was pretty damn confident in the team on a daily basis.

If you think actually trying to compete for a chip is a waste of time, cool - I disagree. Championship windows in the NBA are small. We've seen teams easily start a rebuild that lasts forever before they have to settle for mediocrity. Then they have to rebuild again. If you have a chance, you need to squeeze the life out of it before you give up. I personally think a team with KD, Kyrie, Ben, and Joe Harris absolutely has a chance if you build correctly. If we fail, I'd rather go out swinging. Not give up before we actually give the trio 1 game together.

Golden State obviously has a better organization and coach than we do but they're a pretty clear example of what a smart summer + some development + health can do. They missed the playoffs last year with 3 of their top 4 mostly healthy. Curry played in 63 out of 72 games. They didn't panic. They waited for Klay to get healthy. They signed some minimum/fringe guys that fit the team perfectly in Gary Payton, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Igoudala. They empowered their young guys. Got rid of negative players. Now they're a powerhouse.

Yes, because they have good management. Sean Marks has yet to prove he's remotely within sniffing distance of being on that level, especially after he let KD and Kyrie come in here and run this ship into the ground.

[gigantes]

Last year we were 4th in the league with the best offense of all time and we crushed all the elite teams + teams over .500. That was while battling injuries all year. I wasn't a fan of the minute distribution or Steve Nash but calling it a DISASTER is a huge stretch. If it wasn't for injuries in the playoffs, we were the favorite to win it all and we had the champs on the ropes. This board was pretty damn confident in the team on a daily basis.

Certainly agree, and to be sure-- "disaster" far more describes the loss of what 'could have been' far more than outright poor record, disappointing offense, etc.

Still, my point remains that at the end of the day, 3-4 critical problems of Nets team or player philosophy are arguably what caused things to fall short the way they did. So, yes-- that specific variety of disaster. One which essentially threw away a title favorite's best chances.

If you think actually trying to compete for a chip is a waste of time, cool - I disagree. Championship windows in the NBA are small. We've seen teams easily start a rebuild that lasts forever before they have to settle for mediocrity. Then they have to rebuild again. If you have a chance, you need to squeeze the life out of it before you give up. I personally think a team with KD, Kyrie, Ben, and Joe Harris absolutely has a chance if you build correctly. If we fail, I'd rather go out swinging. Not give up before we actually give the trio 1 game together.

Of course I don't believe 'actually competing for a chip is a waste of time.' Let's not be too insane now, alright? My idea is moreso to do it smartly, under control, in the realm of real possibility, and not via over-reaching, over-spending picks, and hiring bad fits. So here we are, by no means 'a lock' type of contender, now inhabiting space somehow between the middle of those two poles.

Look, here's the thing about mediocre rebuilds-- they don't really have to go on *forever* as you seem to fear. Because with a top destination as we have, an owner who spends, and a smart GM, yours are more small-market, bad exec fears to my mind. Plus like I say, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a good fun rebuild, assuming the actual talent. It can still be a super-fun experience for the fans.

Like-- imagine going out with a date, and the only way you're happy is if you scored at the end of the night. Like, what about the enjoyment of getting to know each other better, what about just the fun of enjoying whatever it is you two did that night, what about holding hands, making out a little, etc, without actually going all the way? Because like it or not, in sports, even out of all the contenders, only one guy is going to score.

Golden State obviously has a better organization and coach than we do but they're a pretty clear example of what a smart summer + some development + health can do. They missed the playoffs last year with 3 of their top 4 mostly healthy. Curry played in 63 out of 72 games. They didn't panic. They waited for Klay to get healthy. They signed some minimum/fringe guys that fit the team perfectly in Gary Payton, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Igoudala. They empowered their young guys. Got rid of negative players. Now they're a powerhouse.

Totally agreed. For sure, there's no locked-in reason a team *HAS* to go on a rollercoaster, sin/cosine, rebuild / contender ride just to avoid being a treadmill.

In fact, I super-admire the classic Spurs, Heat, Dubs and a few others for being able to build great cultures, with superb coaching leadership such that they could all sort of make their own path, free of the standard definitions above.

Even though most of us may be furiously disagreeing with each right about now about how to proceed, etc, I think we can all agree that Sean Marks has hopefully learned a *tonne* over the last few years. Bonus pts for being a Pop student, who HOPEFULLY talks to Pop and his fellow alumni on a regular basis.

*fingers crossed* haha

[mademan]

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Hold on, isn’t it what Nets saying to him right now. I think you clearly missing importance of CBA and secured money aspect. Next CBA can/will look a lot different.

2. I remember Nets not offering Kyrie extension due to uncertainty of his vaccine status. I remember Harden not signing it and not picking option.
I really wonder why Tsai/Marks were willing to give Harden extension, who literally quit on a team but not Kyrie who wants to be here. Isn't it odd?

Exactly. Is he really going to leave for a 1-2 year deal elsewhere instead of staying here on a 1-2 year deal? The Nets don't want to get rid of him. They just don't want to commit to a long-term deal with him.

I mean some team will offer him years. You dont think Klutch/Lakers arent gonna talk to Kyrie behind closed doors and tell him they'll extend him if he goes for an opt-in and trade scenario? Miami would likely do the same, as would perhaps even the Clippers. There are teams who have strong personalities and are desperate for a title, and Kyrie raises all of their ceilings.

We're talking about what Kyrie would do tho, and who tf knows. But if he wants a long term contract and Marks tells him to shove it, i just cant see it going well. Kyrie is pretty open about the power that management has and how he loathes it; i dont think he's willing to play on a "prove it" deal, but ive been wrong before.

[TheNetsFan]

Hold on, isn’t it what Nets saying to him right now. I think you clearly missing importance of CBA and secured money aspect. Next CBA can/will look a lot different.

2. I remember Nets not offering Kyrie extension due to uncertainty of his vaccine status. I remember Harden not signing it and not picking option.
I really wonder why Tsai/Marks were willing to give Harden extension, who literally quit on a team but not Kyrie who wants to be here. Isn't it odd?

Exactly. Is he really going to leave for a 1-2 year deal elsewhere instead of staying here on a 1-2 year deal? The Nets don't want to get rid of him. They just don't want to commit to a long-term deal with him.

I mean some team will offer him years. You dont think Klutch/Lakers arent gonna talk to Kyrie behind closed doors and tell him they'll extend him if he goes for an opt-in and trade scenario? Miami would likely do the same, as would perhaps even the Clippers. There are teams who have strong personalities and are desperate for a title, and Kyrie raises all of their ceilings.

We're talking about what Kyrie would do tho, and who tf knows. But if he wants a long term contract and Marks tells him to shove it, i just cant see it going well. Kyrie is pretty open about the power that management has and how he loathes it; i dont think he's willing to play on a "prove it" deal, but ive been wrong before.

But the Nets are not going to be willing to take back Russ, Herro or whatever pieces those teams are willing to discard so that they can be viable contenders.

[mademan]

Exactly. Is he really going to leave for a 1-2 year deal elsewhere instead of staying here on a 1-2 year deal? The Nets don't want to get rid of him. They just don't want to commit to a long-term deal with him.

I mean some team will offer him years. You dont think Klutch/Lakers arent gonna talk to Kyrie behind closed doors and tell him they'll extend him if he goes for an opt-in and trade scenario? Miami would likely do the same, as would perhaps even the Clippers. There are teams who have strong personalities and are desperate for a title, and Kyrie raises all of their ceilings.

We're talking about what Kyrie would do tho, and who tf knows. But if he wants a long term contract and Marks tells him to shove it, i just cant see it going well. Kyrie is pretty open about the power that management has and how he loathes it; i dont think he's willing to play on a "prove it" deal, but ive been wrong before.

But the Nets are not going to be willing to take back Russ, Herro or whatever pieces those teams are willing to discard so that they can be viable contenders.

ofc not. This is a chit situation, but telling Kyrie to suck it up and play isnt exactly a viable option either. Thats kinda begging for another dysfunctional season. Last time a team tried to handle him, he threatened to have an optional surgery and miss the entire season. Again, the dude gave up 17 mill last year.

If Kyrie's on board with this for some reason, then great. If he's not, i dont see how Marks/Tsai think it will end any better than the Harden situation, except teams will give less for Kyrie given he's even more unpredictable.

[Paradise]

Gone where? Who is backing up the truck to give a 4 year max?

The Nets want him to pick up his option. They might give him an extra year or two, but that it. If he's willing to walk for less money because he feels disrespected, so be it.

It doesn't have to be a 4 year max. Somebody would take a chance with Kyrie on a 1 or 2 year deal to see how it works. I don't think he is desperate for a big deal. Year to year approach is probably the best for him too at this point. He will leave because he was disrespected by Nets organisation, and that's not because he didn't get the max, it's because he is being thrown under the bus for that vaccine decision. Remember, before vaccine mandate they were offering him an extension.

Seems like you're kind of forgetting that KI prefers to play in his hometown and prefers to play with his best friend.

Sure, he'll predictably feel 'disrespected' by the Nets treating him as the lunatic-narcissist that he is, but that's something that puts him in his feels, not something that automatically causes him to bounce. Because for him, BRK and KD is his dream. CLE and BOS were entirely different situations, by comparison.

Both sides are kinda stuck with each other, so they're going to have to figure something out.

Exactly. No logic is being used in any of these arguments. Just the pure nonsense and emotion I am constantly used to here. No level handed logic ever used.

It’s up to KD, Kyrie, Sean and Tsai to figure out the relationship. They wouldn’t take an extension off the table knowing it will piss off their best player.

[azee2890]

Nobody is 100x the problem Kyrie is/has been. He is completely unreliable. He left the team last year. Then he got hurt against Milwaukee - which isn't his fault but health unreliability is no different than any other kind of unreliability.

This year he created the entire **** with the vax. Think whatever you want about the stupidity of the mandate (which it was) but there was an easy solution that 99.9% of the other players in the league were able to accommodate.

I'm not blaming Kyrie entirely - KD wants him here, they both were likely part of the Harden decision. Nash is a downstream result of them also. I dont for a second believe Marks would keep Nash if KD didn't want him here any more.

but the original flaw in this roster is Kyrie. if KD was best friends with Jimmy Butler they'd be playing for a second banner right now.

Ha, when Kyrie was traded to the Nets I questioned if he was more elite than Jimmy Butler (given Jimmy's leadership qualities and two way capabilities). I got understandably raked across the coals. Fast forward to now and Jimmy Buckets probably has more value now.

[3pt_chucker]

All of this over a rumor article/twitter . I get that we as fans are on edge after last season but all of this over reaction is ridiculous.

Fact of the matter is, the Nets has a ton of leverage over KAI.

1. We know that KD might be fine with trading Kyrie since the Nets put feelers out there for a Kyrie trade during last season and they got crickets. The Lakers are probably the only team that would genuinely want him and there would have mutual interest but it's almost impossible unless they trade AD/LBJ.
2. As mentioned, teams don't even have cap space this offseason/can trade for him and the ones that do either won't want Kyrie or would be scared to trade for him since he might quit/retire/be unreliable/destroy culture.
3. Kyrie has simply not played enough games for the Nets. Full stop. Who cares how great he is if he never plays? It's bad for culture, chemistry etc. It's fine if he has rest days but simply not showing up is UNACCEPTABLE. The team has to draw a line in the sand and not continue to be f*** over. In the history of the NBA, no team has won with a star player that's not fully committed. Nets are better off with a committed lesser player + KD + Simmons/Trade Simmons for multiple good pieces.

That said, I'm really sure Kyrie and the Nets will figure something out. It's still MAY ffs. I'd only worry if it's July and nothing has changed.

[MrDollarBills]

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lol. who on earth is going to trade for this guy?

Kyrie needs to opt in.