Carmelo Anthony Thread (Merging)

[enetric]

You don't think he would've done better with a top scoring option like Melo instead of Simmons or Hassell? In the end, he's a good PG on a good contract that could be a piece in another big deal. Where do you think this 4-way gets us? A championship?

We're not gonna get Melo for nothing, so people need to get over that. I've always defend Harris and i like him, but he is more then expandable. Would he become better next to Melo, probably, but so should Farmar and Augistine and the next are left with enough assess to get a legit pg is needed.

Whats the big deal about giving up Favors? The guy has huge bust potential, every is acting as if he is already Howard. He can still be Darko. We're getting an established star, arguable top6 player in the league for one that maybe might one day become like Howard.....ehh...arguable a top6 player in the league.....or become Darko. And Devin, a guy most people wanted gone bad enough to trade him for nothing. I dont get the sudden change of heart. He doesn't play defense and shoots terrible 3s, TRADE HIM!!!! Anyone remember that? I sure as hell do cause i was defending him for it after dozens of people bashed him.

No one is saying that we're going to get Melo for nothing, YOU just need to understand that we have the best package to offer for Melo without including Favors or Harris, now if you're trying to contend wouldn't want to keep your best players if you can?

Secondly, I've been trying to get this point across for my last 5 posts but you can't seem to process it for some reason. Wouldn't you rather keep Harris/Favors if you can keep them whilst getting Melo and use them as another piece in order to get Paul or Deron?

Also, I hate all this BS that you guys are using saying that we should trade Favors because 'he has huge bust potential', my argument against that is that he also has a huge boom potential, see how naive that argument is? For goodness sake let them play the games first before coming up with conclusions without a shred of evidence to back it up. Lastly, he's a very attractive tradable asset, and that asset can be used to ease the trade in order to acquire a Paul or Deron.

He never processes anything Treiz. There is right, wrong...and then way past that...there is Demens.

[Basileus777]

CAA agent William Wesley - aka Worldwide Wes -- has been the top pitchman working 'Melo on accepting deal to Nets, sources tell Y!

[Rich Rane]

I'll say it...we're outbidding ourselves.

[enetric]

No one is saying that we're going to get Melo for nothing, YOU just need to understand that we have the best package to offer for Melo without including Favors or Harris, now if you're trying to contend wouldn't want to keep your best players if you can?

Secondly, I've been trying to get this point across for my last 5 posts but you can't seem to process it for some reason. Wouldn't you rather keep Harris/Favors if you can keep them whilst getting Melo and use them as another piece in order to get Paul or Deron?

Also, I hate all this BS that you guys are using saying that we should trade Favors because 'he has huge bust potential', my argument against that is that he also has a huge boom potential, see how naive that argument is? For goodness sake let them play the games first before coming up with conclusions without a shred of evidence to back it up. Lastly, he's a very attractive tradable asset, and that asset can be used to ease the trade in order to acquire a Paul or Deron.

We have the best package to offer BECAUSE we are offering Favors, if we dont that we have nothing. And you're not gonna get Melo for nothing.

As to your 2nd point, no its pretty obvious i would like to trade Lopez and Williams too along with Favors and Devin and have Melo play PG SG and Center as well. Of course i'd rather keep them, but its a fair price to pay, they are replaceable.

I just mentioned his "Boom" potential didnt I? And his Boom potential is Howard a player i consider to be on the same tier as Melo and while we can argue that, honestly, do you really....i mean really....think Favors will be as good as Howard.

Its like verbal diharehea...

[treiz]

I hate to say this because i dont like the guys attitude but i have to agree with demens here.

First of all, i want everyone to remember that we are the Nets, not the Knicks nor the Heat. We are not an attractive destination. In fact, as reported, thats the reason why this proposed deal are being dragged on... convincing him to sign the extension. And because we are the Nets, we have to make a more interesting offer than most. If not, sad to say it, then we're not going anywhere.

I am disappointed with you Nets fans. If the rumor about Harris, Favors and the GS pick for Melo and Augustine is true, i would say its a good deal. Its not like we're giving them 2 or 3 picks just for Melo alone. Augustine is a young decent talent who can shoot (which we've been lacking for years in our PG position).

The era when we acquired VC and Kidd were different. This time, teams are built stronger, so we have to make an extra effort to prove that we can stay competitive with other teams. Never say never... After this, we can make other moves to make the team better, for another superstar. As long as Prokhy and his money are available, we can always make things happen.

Im not gonna bash Favors, he can become a really good player but its really something we cannot affors to wait. We have other players that are hungry to win and want a competitive team, and it showed last year. Brook was very frustrated last year and his body language showed it. At one point, he even walked out on practice.

I understand everybody's feelings towards this deal. Believe me, i was also falling in love with Favors (no homo) but we are talking about Melo here. Just think about Melo as a recruitment agency lol.

People are getting the reason why we don't like this trade wrong. It's not because of the value of the trade, it's because of what we ca get away with that makes me unhappy about this. Melo's already pursuing his way out, let's be honest here no matter what whether it's this summer or next summer, he's out of Denver. Now, because of that I believe we can lowball Denver by giving them a deal with less value, also, due to us having significantly more 1st rounders than Chicago and the Knicks, I believe we have a chance to get away with highway robbery here, the opportunity is there to do it.

Now after that, with the pieces we manage to keep (e.g. Favors/Harris/Murphy) we may then be in an even better position to snag a Paul or Deron.

It's not that I don't want this deal to happen, it's that if we play our cards right, we could end up with a line-up of:

Brook/Petro
Hump/Outlaw/James
Melo/Outlaw/James
Morrow/Twill
Paul or Deron/Farmar

We may need to sign a PF with the MLE or even the minimum vet (this squad will attract players) or maybe acquire somebody through trades, if we manage to get a lin-up like this, we're definitely contenders.

[enetric]

I just fear a trade like this leaving us in complete no man's land.

I know all teams view assets and players differently, but if Denver ultimately gets this incredible package for Melo, how does NOH or Utah justify trading Chris Paul without getting a similar package in 2011-12 even if Paul and Williams both let it be known they are not returning?
Especially when they would literally have all the leverage because we and most other teams wouldn't have the caproom to sign either player outright?

Because without adding one of those two or a player of similar caliber to Melo and Brook, we are not going to be able to compete with teams like LAL, the cHeat, Orlando, OKC, etc.

Sigh...

incredible package?

What incredible package? They are getting an exp. and Favor (who is nothing more then a no3 pick) and a pick. So an exp contract and 2 picks. The Nets can offer exactly that for Paul.

The package is a PG with a good contract, a LOTTERY PICK, and 2 first round picks. This is the type of trade you offer to a Paul or Deron, not Melo, especially when Melo has tremendous leverage.

How can we offer this for Paul? Who else on our team has as much trade value as Favors? I can maybe understand that a Murphy and 1st rounders can get the NO management thinking, but a prospect like Favors will seal the deal 100%. If we trade Favors to Denver, we don't have that asset anymore.

Thats the key. When MELO HAS TREMNDOUS LEVERAGE. You are not competing against 28 teams. You are competing against ONLY those on his list. Rumors say Bulls and Knicks. WE beat their offers without Favors. WE ROCK them with him in there...and thats not what you want.

[enetric]

Come on now, Melo doesn't have the same impact on the game as Dwight Howard.

Why? Dwight is almost a non factor on offense. He draws double teams and thats pretty much the extent of his use, he doesnt even know how to pass out of them.

I dont see how Melo is not on the same level.

I hate agreeing with him on anything...but he is right on this point. Dwight is also overrated. Both are in the 15-20 range...maybe 10-15...but they are comparable in that regard.

I think given a choice though...Howard to most seems like the sexier player long term.

[treiz]

1st point, look at what Chicago and NY can offer for Melo, are you telling me it's better than Murphy, James and/or TWill and 2 1st rounders?

2nd point, the point of a trade is to get the best pieces for your team without sacrificing much in order to improve your team without paying a hefty price. A way of doing this is analysing whether the team or player has leverage over the other. If you have leverage on a trade you take it, and since Melo clearly wants out whether it's this year or next, WE HAVE THAT LEVERAGE in which we can offer Denver less just so they can ensure that they can get some value in return. Look at what Boston did with KG, look at what LA did with Gasol, they used the leverage of the player in order to improve their team without sacrificing too many pieces. This has been my point, we can then use the pieces we saved up on the Melo trade and pursue a Paul or Deron. I'm not saying Harris is untouchable, I'm just saying his value as an asset can be used to improve the team that much more.

3rd point, Howard is a tier above Melo IMO. But that's personal opinion, but the way Howard changes a game compared to Melo automatically makes him better than Melo. I'm not saying he'll be as good as Howard, but his trade value seems to believe so, and I'm willing to use that value in order to heist NO of Paul, or Utah for Deron.

Putting aside who can or cant be traded (since i dont know), a package of Gallo, Chandler, AR and an exp. is better then what you suggest we offer. The only problem Knicks are running into is their lack of picks which the Nuggets require.

What did Boston do with KG? They traded Al Jeff, value wise at the time he had more then Harris and they trade 2 1st round picks. I cant find the details but one of the pick were Minnys before, they just got it back, so i bet it was a top lotto pick as well. An exp. and a few decent young players like Gomes. They traded A LOT, way more then we are offering for Melo.

Gasol trade happens once in the blue moon, its not an example to go on.

Ok then, Troy Murphy has an $11million expiring contract, that alone is worth more than Chandler and AR considering that they're in the lux tax. Secondly we can give them 2 1st rounders, we can give them the GS pick, which will be quite valuable considering it's GS, and of course one of ours. Like I said in an earlier post, the Nuggets are going to want two things: Expiring or cash for cap relief, and draft picks, and we can satisfy both criteria.

The part about KG. Like SOUP said, KG was an MVP-caliber player during the trade, Melo is a 2nd tier star, he's not worth what Minny got for KG. And besides what did they offer them. A promising player and draft picks and some cap relief, something we can offer Denver without having to worry about Knicks or Chicago topping.

[enetric]

The stakes are higher for the Nets in this because they know that if they don't get him, he will likely end up with the Knicks. And if they want to compete for attention in NYC, that's a problem.

That a fanboy problem. Not an NBA problem. Every deal has a breaking point, You have to know when to walk away.

[enetric]

1st point, look at what Chicago and NY can offer for Melo, are you telling me it's better than Murphy, James and/or TWill and 2 1st rounders?

2nd point, the point of a trade is to get the best pieces for your team without sacrificing much in order to improve your team without paying a hefty price. A way of doing this is analysing whether the team or player has leverage over the other. If you have leverage on a trade you take it, and since Melo clearly wants out whether it's this year or next, WE HAVE THAT LEVERAGE in which we can offer Denver less just so they can ensure that they can get some value in return. Look at what Boston did with KG, look at what LA did with Gasol, they used the leverage of the player in order to improve their team without sacrificing too many pieces. This has been my point, we can then use the pieces we saved up on the Melo trade and pursue a Paul or Deron. I'm not saying Harris is untouchable, I'm just saying his value as an asset can be used to improve the team that much more.

3rd point, Howard is a tier above Melo IMO. But that's personal opinion, but the way Howard changes a game compared to Melo automatically makes him better than Melo. I'm not saying he'll be as good as Howard, but his trade value seems to believe so, and I'm willing to use that value in order to heist NO of Paul, or Utah for Deron.

Putting aside who can or cant be traded (since i dont know), a package of Gallo, Chandler, AR and an exp. is better then what you suggest we offer. The only problem Knicks are running into is their lack of picks which the Nuggets require.

What did Boston do with KG? They traded Al Jeff, value wise at the time he had more then Harris and they trade 2 1st round picks. I cant find the details but one of the pick were Minnys before, they just got it back, so i bet it was a top lotto pick as well. An exp. and a few decent young players like Gomes. They traded A LOT, way more then we are offering for Melo.

Gasol trade happens once in the blue moon, its not an example to go on.

That is not the only problem...its a major problem. We can give two picks, Twill, And Devin. I will say it again. Rather give up a second pick...and Twill or James...if thats the case than Favors...and that still beats the Knicks package.

[Basileus777]

Dwight Howard, the best defender and rebounder in the league, a center that needs to be double teamed by most teams, is only a top 15-20 player? He's not great at creating his own offense, but he still has a tremendous impact on the game.

That a fanboy problem. Not an NBA problem.

What does this even mean? I can't tell if you are being obtuse or just randomly accusing me being a fanboy.

I wasn't necessarily speaking in favor of this deal. I have heavy reservations about it myself. But if you don't think the business and marketing decisions involved with moving to Brooklyn are related to this deal...well...that's not how the NBA works.

[enetric]

Melo is not a top tier player (top 5), and KG at the time was an MVP caliber player. Not fair to compare them value-wise like that

And one was being brought in at the SAME TIME with Allen and Piece and they had Rondo. a championship was built on that ONE DEAL.

You can overpay when its the LAST big piece. But you dont want to do it when its THE FIRST. Kills your cap, kills you future drafts, kills your felxibility.

Overpay for the LAST piece....

[treiz]

Melo is a Nuggest player with a contract so they DO have leverage. And an offer of Murphy and James is gonna get you nothing, get real.

And Melo expires next year, he could easily leave the Nuggets with nothing in return and move on to a different team next year, that's barely 'having leverage' there.

An offer of Murphy, James, plus 1st round picks satisfies the 2 most important aspects of rebuilding, especially when you're about to trade your star:

Firstly, it gets you an expiring contract, so that some cap relief can be made.

Secondly, it gives gets you youth and potential talent.

This offer satisfies those criteria and is sure as hell a better offer than the Bulls and Knicks could offer.

I think your offer is still a bit low. I think Gallo and one pick beats two picks and James at this point.

Troy treat like an expiring. Yes...more valuable to re-trade than say Curry...but that assumes they want to trade him for more salary commitment. Otherwise...he is just an expiring to them who happens to be a good player.

You have to deal with the rest of it. Upgrade James to Twill lets say. Or Devin over Troy. give them the picks..fine. or Twil and James.

That to me gets it done over these other teams who Melo would take an extension from. Have to beat their offers.

James, Twill doesn't matter, if this does happen, we won't be left with much young players with trade value anyway.

[Basileus777]

Melo's leverage isn't as strong as it's being made it out to be because he either needs to sign an extension with some team this year or risk losing much of that 60 million he won't be getting under a new CBA. His threat of becoming a free agent is in many ways a hollow one.

[treiz]

Lets be honest. Even with another star.....we arent competing with the Heat. We are about to witness a dynasty. The best chance to combat that...take your time and become LOADED with players on your roster. You can do that if you have great talent on rookie contracts. Not by paying ONE 26 year old 22mil, or 40% of your cap. And if the CBA does radically effect max salaries?

Does anyone realize how relatively screwed we would be in the market? There would be teams that could build much better rosters for much less if THEIR top guy was only able to make 10 or 15mil.

Although I do agree with your build through the draft thing, I do, I want us to suck for the next 5 years and pray to God that we get the next Lebron. But for some reason management wants to rush things right now, so, might as well jump on that boat whilst the seats are still available. I'm actually hoping that this deal falls through and he goes to the Knicks, so we can see them get absolutely demolished by the Heat.

[treiz]

Dwight Howard, the best defender and rebounder in the league, a center that needs to be double teamed by most teams, is only a top 15-20 player? He's not great at creating his own offense, but he still has a tremendous impact on the game.

That a fanboy problem. Not an NBA problem.

What does this even mean? I can't tell if you are being obtuse or just randomly accusing me being a fanboy.

I wasn't necessarily speaking in favor of this deal. I have heavy reservations about it myself. But if you don't think the business and marketing decisions involved with moving to Brooklyn are related to this deal...well...that's not how the NBA works.

He wasn't calling you a fanboy, it's just that only fanboys care about getting small picture rather than the bigger picture.

[treiz]

Melo's leverage isn't as strong as it's being made it out to be because he either needs to sign an extension with some team this year or risk losing much of that 60 million he won't be getting under a new CBA. His threat of becoming a free agent is in many ways a hollow one.

Well let's be honest here first and foremost. If he wanted to stay in Denver, he would've signed that extension. Secondly, he does have great leverage mainly because if he doesn't sign that contract, he's out by next year, so Denver has to make sure they're getting something in return otherwise they'll lose their star for nothing. The reason why Melo has great leverage is also because of the fact that since he's expiring, he has to sign a contract with the traded team, if he doesn't want to sign, then the deal is off, and Denver might not get what they coveted.

[Basileus777]

He wasn't calling you a fanboy, it's just that only fanboys care about getting small picture rather than the bigger picture.

Ah. I was talking about of the perspective the Nets management. I guess I should have been more clear on that. It would be pretty wrong for a fan to think in those terms.

Well let's be honest here first and foremost. If he wanted to stay in Denver, he would've signed that extension. Secondly, he does have great leverage mainly because if he doesn't sign that contract, he's out by next year, so Denver has to make sure they're getting something in return otherwise they'll lose their star for nothing. The reason why Melo has great leverage is also because of the fact that since he's expiring, he has to sign a contract with the traded team, if he doesn't want to sign, then the deal is off, and Denver might not get what they coveted.

Well I agree with most of that. Melo certainly has leverage. I just think it's important to remember that he has pressure on him as well, because he really can't risk going to free agency and losing a bunch of money under a new CBA. At a certain point it could become a situation where he would have to choose between going to a less desirable team or losing money.

[treiz]

I'll say it...we're outbidding ourselves.

The sentence that I was looking for the whole day to sum my points up.

Cheers boss!

[treiz]

He wasn't calling you a fanboy, it's just that only fanboys care about getting small picture rather than the bigger picture.

Ah. I was talking about the perspective the Nets management. I guess I should have been more clear on that. It would be pretty wrong for a fan to think that way.

Yeah and to be honest they want as much fans as they want for the move to Brooklyn, which is why I'm not surprised, but I think they're rushing this too much, IMO they should wait until next year to make some moves.