WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's

[Prokorov]

Won't comment on anything else but since I've seen it mentioned a few times I wouldn't get your hopes up for a small ball C Simmons. Sixers would've loved to have used him in that way and it just didn't work. Can't anchor the defense in the same way that somebody like an undersized Draymond Green can. And frankly isn't that good at guarding people similar-sized/bigger than him. His best defensive traits are being able to guard most SFs/smaller PFs while also being able to stay in front of almost all smaller guards well due to his very quick feet.

I agree with you.

Simmons at small ball C is a dumb idea.

Simmons is at his best at PG with shooters around him. We saw this in Philly when Embiid was hurt.

The best position for Simmons is not to have one...

You move him all over based on who is in your lineup and who you are playing. To start have him at PG. let kyrie/KD just be attackers off ball. get it and score.

opponent goes small? switch Ben to PF or C in that draymond roll.

Opponent has an elite wing? Bring in LMA and have ben be one of the 1.5 non-shooters and shut down the opposing wing as he plays SF.

He is super versatile. a smart coach uses that based on situation.

but we have nash so i guess PG who spends most of his time off ball

[Prokorov]

I never wanted Harden on the team (I have personally hated watching him play for years) so I’m glad I don’t have to root for him anymore.

Simmons is a perfect combo with Kyrie and KD so that the third star isn’t expected to take late game half court shots. He can bring the ball up, run the fast break, and focus on being DPOY so that KD/Kyrie save energy to close late in the postseason

Sounds exactly how the Sixers tried to use him. However, you aren't going to take the ball out of Irving's hand to give it to Simmons for drive and dish opportunities mostly because teams have figured out that Simmons isn't shooting jumpers so they sag off him and other defenders just stay with their men. Once Brooklyn gets into their halfcourt offense, Simmons has no place. Simmons standing on the outside will allow his man to help or double because he isn't a threat to shoot when the ball gets kicked to him which allows the defense time to recover. The Sixers tried him moving under the basket and posting up but he isn't really great at that either. His best offense is in transition where he's unstoppable. He also is an absolute zero at the end of games because he's scared to touch the ball for fear of getting fouled and having to shoot foul shots. Having him and Drummond in there in the final 4 minutes of a close game would be a bad idea for Brooklyn.

I dont think drummond will play or dress for most games. so thats a non-factor.

Also we have played with 3-4 non shooters all year. having ONE non shooter on the floor wont be a problem. not matter where he is on the floor.

KD scored 50 points twice in 3 games vs the bucks in the playoffs with Bruce brown at PG and blake at center.

[MrDollarBills]

Won't comment on anything else but since I've seen it mentioned a few times I wouldn't get your hopes up for a small ball C Simmons. Sixers would've loved to have used him in that way and it just didn't work. Can't anchor the defense in the same way that somebody like an undersized Draymond Green can. And frankly isn't that good at guarding people similar-sized/bigger than him. His best defensive traits are being able to guard most SFs/smaller PFs while also being able to stay in front of almost all smaller guards well due to his very quick feet.

I agree with you.

Simmons at small ball C is a dumb idea.

Simmons is at his best at PG with shooters around him. We saw this in Philly when Embiid was hurt.

The best position for Simmons is not to have one...

You move him all over based on who is in your lineup and who you are playing. To start have him at PG. let kyrie/KD just be attackers off ball. get it and score.

opponent goes small? switch Ben to PF or C in that draymond roll.

Opponent has an elite wing? Bring in LMA and have ben be one of the 1.5 non-shooters and shut down the opposing wing as he plays SF.

He is super versatile. a smart coach uses that based on situation.

but we have nash so i guess PG who spends most of his time off ball

Nash will absolutely have no clue how to use him. He'll probably have Ben sitting in the corner instead of having him operate out of the post in the half court.

Ben's only chance is to rebound like an animal and take off on every missed shot.

[MrDollarBills]

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[Jailblazers7]

Just a Sixers fan popping in to read y’all’s reaction to the deal. I think it’s a win-win (although I do like it more for Philly but we’ll see). I think there’s a chance that it works great for both teams but also risks that it blows up in everyone’s face given the personalities involved.

But mostly, I hope we play each other in the playoffs every year for the next 3-4 seasons. The fireworks and drama will be can’t miss tv.

[Netaman]

Just a Sixers fan popping in to read y’all’s reaction to the deal. I think it’s a win-win (although I do like it more for Philly but we’ll see). I think there’s a chance that it works great for both teams but also risks that it blows up in everyone’s face given the personalities involved.

But mostly, I hope we play each other in the playoffs every year for the next 3-4 seasons. The fireworks and drama will be can’t miss tv.

I see it similarly. I saw someone say that the best thing the nets accomplished was diversifying and I agree with that entirely. they didn't need to open a championship window they needed to reinforce the one already open and make it a little less volatile. I think it's a big win for the nets to add 2 years of Curry and 4 of Simmons, plus whatever they do with the picks, but i'd also agree it's hard for it to not be a bigger win for a team that probably went from not having a championship window to having one now.

i do think there are valid concerns re: what harden is at this point. last year he was intentionally out of shape and still looked a lot better than he has at any time this year. beyond the nets situation he has clearly been frustrated with how the game is getting called now and his lack of FT. but for Embiid the time is now and you would think there will be a honeymoon period where Harden is on his best behavior like he was with the nets last year.

[MrDollarBills]

Just a Sixers fan popping in to read y’all’s reaction to the deal. I think it’s a win-win (although I do like it more for Philly but we’ll see). I think there’s a chance that it works great for both teams but also risks that it blows up in everyone’s face given the personalities involved.

But mostly, I hope we play each other in the playoffs every year for the next 3-4 seasons. The fireworks and drama will be can’t miss tv.

It was good doing business with you guys. very fair deal imo

[Claud]

The reason we've lost so much in 2022 is due to lack of spacing + really awful defense.

Even though he's great at taking charges, playing Blake at the 5 makes us horrendous defensively.
Aldridge, Sharpe and Claxton are just slightly better than him in that department.

I read some people don't think we should play Drummond much, but I think he should be our starting 5.(At least to see how it works)
He gives us much needed size and rebounding. He should improve us in that department.
Offensively he can't shoot but getting offensive rebounds is always a plus.

Curry gives us Joe Harris insurance. Curry can open up the court for Kyrie/KD + adds another reliable 12-15ppg which we've sorely needed with Joe out most of the season.

Whenever Simmons is ready to ball, this offense will look completely different when compared with the way Harden ran it.
I expect us to play much faster, better defense, more passes/movements. Should be more enjoyable to watch as a fan.

The 2 1st round picks were just the cherry on top. Marks was able to fix some of our weaknesses + replenish our draft picks.
Very good trade for us. Harden had been doggin it for a while now so why waste everyone's time? I'm glad it's over.

For Philly my biggest concern is Harden wants to dominate the ball and excels with PnRs big while Joel doesn't really like to be the roll man in those situations, so does that mean Joel becomes just a spot up shooter when Harden handles the rock for 22 seconds?

I think Phily lost depth, but adding Harden definitely makes them a tough out come playoffs time.
I can already imagine the amount of free throws with Embiid/Harden on the court.

Overall, I feel like it's one of those rare win/win trades. Everyone's happy + improved their team.
Would be epic to face them in the playoffs with all the storylines surrounding both teams.

[Jay555]

The reason we've lost so much in 2022 is due to lack of spacing + really awful defense.

Even though he's great at taking charges, playing Blake at the 5 makes us horrendous defensively.
Aldridge, Sharpe and Claxton are just slightly better than him in that department.

I read some people don't think we should play Drummond much, but I think he should be our starting 5.(At least to see how it works)
He gives us much needed size and rebounding. He should improve us in that department.
Offensively he can't shoot but getting offensive rebounds is always a plus.

Curry gives us Joe Harris insurance. Curry can open up the court for Kyrie/KD + adds another reliable 12-15ppg which we've sorely needed with Joe out most of the season.

Whenever Simmons is ready to ball, this offense will look completely different when compared with the way Harden ran it.
I expect us to play much faster, better defense, more passes/movements. Should be more enjoyable to watch as a fan.

The 2 1st round picks were just the cherry on top. Marks was able to fix some of our weaknesses + replenish our draft picks.
Very good trade for us. Harden had been doggin it for a while now so why waste everyone's time? I'm glad it's over.

For Philly my biggest concern is Harden wants to dominate the ball and excels with PnRs big while Joel doesn't really like to be the roll man in those situations, so does that mean Joel becomes just a spot up shooter when Harden handles the rock for 22 seconds?

I think Phily lost depth, but adding Harden definitely makes them a tough out come playoffs time.
I can already imagine the amount of free throws with Embiid/Harden on the court.

Overall, I feel like it's one of those rare win/win trades. Everyone's happy + improved their team.
Would be epic to face them in the playoffs with all the storylines surrounding both teams.

Agreed with the win/win trades which you rarely see.

[SelfishPlayer]

I don't see anyone concerned about defensive deficiencies in a Kyrie/Seth backcourt as well as the incredibly poor free throw shooting of Drummond and Simmons. There will be two players on the floor to intentionally hack in order to slow down Durant and Kyrie if they get hot offensively. You combine that with a small backcourt that doesn't defend and it looks like Brooklyn has punted on the season trading Harden away.

[MrDollarBills]

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FACTS. Marks and Tsai need to get slapped for this. This might be the worst move of the Marks era. Bembry was a good player.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't see anyone concerned about defensive deficiencies in a Kyrie/Seth backcourt as well as the incredibly poor free throw shooting of Drummond and Simmons. There will be two players on the floor to intentionally hack in order to slow down Durant and Kyrie if they get hot offensively. You combine that with a small backcourt that doesn't defend and it looks like Brooklyn has punted on the season trading Harden away.

Are you new here or something? You think we care about that? We had Harden and Kyrie/Mills in the backcourt. Kyrie/Mills were the best defender out of the two pairings.

You must be a Philly troll. Who are the two players that will be hacked to slow down Durant and Kyrie? Bitch we might run 4 shooters + Ben at any time. Go ahead and hack. Put yourself in the penalty. We will then ISO Durant and send you home.

[MrDollarBills]

The reason we've lost so much in 2022 is due to lack of spacing + really awful defense.

Even though he's great at taking charges, playing Blake at the 5 makes us horrendous defensively.
Aldridge, Sharpe and Claxton are just slightly better than him in that department.

I read some people don't think we should play Drummond much, but I think he should be our starting 5.(At least to see how it works)
He gives us much needed size and rebounding. He should improve us in that department.
Offensively he can't shoot but getting offensive rebounds is always a plus.

Curry gives us Joe Harris insurance. Curry can open up the court for Kyrie/KD + adds another reliable 12-15ppg which we've sorely needed with Joe out most of the season.

Whenever Simmons is ready to ball, this offense will look completely different when compared with the way Harden ran it.
I expect us to play much faster, better defense, more passes/movements. Should be more enjoyable to watch as a fan.

The 2 1st round picks were just the cherry on top. Marks was able to fix some of our weaknesses + replenish our draft picks.
Very good trade for us. Harden had been doggin it for a while now so why waste everyone's time? I'm glad it's over.

For Philly my biggest concern is Harden wants to dominate the ball and excels with PnRs big while Joel doesn't really like to be the roll man in those situations, so does that mean Joel becomes just a spot up shooter when Harden handles the rock for 22 seconds?

I think Phily lost depth, but adding Harden definitely makes them a tough out come playoffs time.
I can already imagine the amount of free throws with Embiid/Harden on the court.

Overall, I feel like it's one of those rare win/win trades. Everyone's happy + improved their team.
Would be epic to face them in the playoffs with all the storylines surrounding both teams.

The Nets have 3 of the league's most elite shooters on the roster. Getting Seth was huge.

[Hello Brooklyn]

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FACTS. Marks and Tsai need to get slapped for this. This might be the worst move of the Marks era. Bembry was a good player.

I still don't get it all. Makes no sense.

We should have released Carter, Brown and Johnson before Bembry.

What a stupid move.

[Jay555]

The reason we've lost so much in 2022 is due to lack of spacing + really awful defense.

Even though he's great at taking charges, playing Blake at the 5 makes us horrendous defensively.
Aldridge, Sharpe and Claxton are just slightly better than him in that department.

I read some people don't think we should play Drummond much, but I think he should be our starting 5.(At least to see how it works)
He gives us much needed size and rebounding. He should improve us in that department.
Offensively he can't shoot but getting offensive rebounds is always a plus.

Curry gives us Joe Harris insurance. Curry can open up the court for Kyrie/KD + adds another reliable 12-15ppg which we've sorely needed with Joe out most of the season.

Whenever Simmons is ready to ball, this offense will look completely different when compared with the way Harden ran it.
I expect us to play much faster, better defense, more passes/movements. Should be more enjoyable to watch as a fan.

The 2 1st round picks were just the cherry on top. Marks was able to fix some of our weaknesses + replenish our draft picks.
Very good trade for us. Harden had been doggin it for a while now so why waste everyone's time? I'm glad it's over.

For Philly my biggest concern is Harden wants to dominate the ball and excels with PnRs big while Joel doesn't really like to be the roll man in those situations, so does that mean Joel becomes just a spot up shooter when Harden handles the rock for 22 seconds?

I think Phily lost depth, but adding Harden definitely makes them a tough out come playoffs time.
I can already imagine the amount of free throws with Embiid/Harden on the court.

Overall, I feel like it's one of those rare win/win trades. Everyone's happy + improved their team.
Would be epic to face them in the playoffs with all the storylines surrounding both teams.

The Nets have 3 of the league's most elite shooters on the roster. Getting Seth was huge.

The shooting is god mode if you add Harris.

Tho Nash is still the weakest link that needs to be addressed. I hope he does not run KD into the ground when he's back. I can see Simmons getting 40 mins a game down the road lol. (It's an important one because the 76ers are already talking about load management for Harden).

[jigga_man]

I don't see anyone concerned about defensive deficiencies in a Kyrie/Seth backcourt as well as the incredibly poor free throw shooting of Drummond and Simmons. There will be two players on the floor to intentionally hack in order to slow down Durant and Kyrie if they get hot offensively.

Simmons & Kyrie is the starting back court, at least for away games. It's not even a guarantee Curry will start at all and may back Patty up. Drummond and Simmons won't even start together much less finish games.

You combine that with a small backcourt that doesn't defend and it looks like Brooklyn has punted on the season trading Harden away.

Harden is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the entire league and was barely playing above Fred Vanvleet level offensively. The season was punted unless Harden started playing like a top 5/mvp candidate again.

[TheNetsFan]

Just a Sixers fan popping in to read y’all’s reaction to the deal. I think it’s a win-win (although I do like it more for Philly but we’ll see). I think there’s a chance that it works great for both teams but also risks that it blows up in everyone’s face given the personalities involved.

But mostly, I hope we play each other in the playoffs every year for the next 3-4 seasons. The fireworks and drama will be can’t miss tv.

At this point, it's a win-win because there are too many unknowns. The Nets are hedging their bet. The value of Curry, Drummond & 2 first rounders are pretty quantifiable. Half their bet is still on the table in the form of Simmons. He's a big unknown. Is he in the right mental state? Has he stayed in shape? Has he worked on his shot? The Nets will treat him with kid gloves to ensure he does not crater his trade value between now & the offseason. This is a trial period though. If the fit works, he stays. If not, they'll flip him & hedge some more.

On the Philly/Harden side, the biggest question to me is whether Harden & Embiid can co-exist beyond this season. Harden has had issues with Paul, Westbrook, Wall, Howard, and now KD, Kyrie, Griffin, Mills & probably more than I can recall. Harden wants everything on the court to revolve around him, and he wants to be able to have influence over the GM to ensure that happens. Can Embiid deal with that? Embiid has been the alpha in Philly for years. Harden will adjust for the rest of the year. Short-term the fit will be great. That honeymoon period may not last though. He seemingly lacks the discipline and work ethic to keep himself in shape, which at his age will be harder & harder to recover from & potentially cause him to become more and more injury-prone. Also, if Harden doesn't get the Sixers to at least the finals in the next 2 years, the back half of effective 5 years, $270mil will be a killer.

I favor the Nets side of the deal, because I think it's side of the deal with less downside. I also don't think Harden makes Philly better than Milwaukee, Miami or the 2023 Brooklyn team. He definitely improves Philly, but I still wouldn't view them as post-season favorites.

[SuperDeluxe]

I thought you guys made out like bandits. Sam Mitchell said so too after the Celtics-Nuggets game.

If Marks is able to get a similar loot in the offseason for a Kyrie/Prokhorov package, you'll be in the elite for a long time (as a team and as a forum).

[SelfishPlayer]

I don't see anyone concerned about defensive deficiencies in a Kyrie/Seth backcourt as well as the incredibly poor free throw shooting of Drummond and Simmons. There will be two players on the floor to intentionally hack in order to slow down Durant and Kyrie if they get hot offensively.

Simmons & Kyrie is the starting back court, at least for away games. It's not even a guarantee Curry will start at all and may back Patty up. Drummond and Simmons won't even start together much less finish games.

You combine that with a small backcourt that doesn't defend and it looks like Brooklyn has punted on the season trading Harden away.

Harden is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the entire league and was barely playing above Fred Vanvleet level offensively. The season was punted unless Harden started playing like a top 5/mvp candidate again.

Joe Harris was a starter. Harden is gone. I don't see the Nets adding a non shooter in Simmons, losing two starting shooters to trade and injury, and deciding not to start a newly acquired shooter in Curry.

[LOUiS-D]

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