GT: Utah Jazz @ Barclays Center - Monday, 1/2/17. 7:30pm. Joe Jesus returns

[Prokorov]

What's the definition for FG% at rim? Is it the field goal of the opposition when Brook is standing within 2 feet of the basket?

Even if that was the metric I can see why he'd look good there. He's fine when he's that close but he's usually not in a stationary position that close to the basket.

Where do you find the "defense in PnR" stat? That's also flaky because that wouldn't account for plays like Heyward setting up JJ for the wide open 3 at the end of the game. If Brook hedges that pick on PnR, Joe's man stays with him and he's never that wide open for a shot.

I agree with you. I don't care what those stats say. We've seen it every game countless times and we've called it out too often for me to believe that he's actually the decent PnR defender that the stats suggest.



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Synergy and NBA.com track those stats with little to no explanation of either. so its a real grey area.

How is FG% against factored if you send the guy to the FT line? its not a made FG so it doesnt hurt the percentage. how does it factor when the guy misses but someone had to help you cause you got beat so bad and his man got an easy put back or wide open 3? how does it factor if brooks guy gets his own rebound twice before dunking it? is that 33% on 1 of 3 even though the guy dominated brook on the possession?

to me its a completely unreliable stat with alot of flaws.

I want to post these videos because its SO obvious wathcing it. DVR all the games and watch alot of them a second time with fast forward to look at pick and roll situations and some other things that interest me. whent eams DONT score on us in the pick and roll its suprising, and usually due to an il advised decision by the offense.

[Curns13]

you say that like we have some other guys to put in where it wont be loss after loss after loss. we have 14 bench players + lopez. there is no good lineup to start or close with.

I can handle loss after loss if its getting minutes into our kids. The Seives don't have it in them to win us games, so why is RHJ and LeVert playing 14 minutes each? If we lost by 15 and those 2 both played 25 minutes I couldn't care less. What does the team get out of a double digit loss at the hands of the same closing unit who have brought us so many losses when our 2 best kids don't touch the floor in the 4th?

I think Levert is still on a minutes restriction (and rightly so IMO). We're still trying to take it easy with him.

Also, we're still not even half way through the season yet. Usually teams don't officially commit to 100% development until after the allstar game if they have vets on the team.

I have no explanation for RHJ's benching other than KA possibly thinking that there's a small chance Bogs and Skil could shoot us back into the game while RHJ wouldn't be able to.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

LeVert played 24 minutes the game before and 20 minutes the game before that. 14 minutes after 3 days rest doesn't make sense to me. And imo RHJ has just as much of a chance of getting stops to get us back in the game as the Seives do at shooting us back in.

[Paradise]

you say that like we have some other guys to put in where it wont be loss after loss after loss. we have 14 bench players + lopez. there is no good lineup to start or close with.

Yeah but it's a lot worse losing with guys who clearly don't learn from their mistakes and don't offer much upside either. The most upside we will see from Bojan is more scoring.

Joe Harris is an example. He isn't a talented defender or particularly great in any area but he competes. He went into the paint and dunked inside which he rarely ever does, Whitehead stuffed Gobert at the rim. It's effort. Toughness. Fearless basketball. Some have it. Some don't. Bojan doesn't and this is not anything new.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

i think bojan plays hard. he just isnt athletic. he is competitive and emotional just like those guys. Harris shot was way off. he was liek 3 feet short on an airball. also coming off injury. cant argue much with him not on the floor. Kilpatrick has sparked some late 4th quarter surges for us, i dont see any issue with him on the floor late.

i think this is just a grass is greener thing. if harris or whitehead close the game, turn it over a ton they would be getting heat just the same.

Whitehead did make mistakes that cost us but again, that's something to live with because he is learning. Same with Harris and it's not about closing. It's the bigger picture.

You got torched by Trey Burke replacing Bradley Beal. You should be embarrassed, individually speaking. Bogie has always had a knack for disappearing. Dating back to the days we were tracking him as a euro-stash in 2012.

[Curns13]

I can handle loss after loss if its getting minutes into our kids. The Seives don't have it in them to win us games, so why is RHJ and LeVert playing 14 minutes each? If we lost by 15 and those 2 both played 25 minutes I couldn't care less. What does the team get out of a double digit loss at the hands of the same closing unit who have brought us so many losses when our 2 best kids don't touch the floor in the 4th?

I think Levert is still on a minutes restriction (and rightly so IMO). We're still trying to take it easy with him.

Also, we're still not even half way through the season yet. Usually teams don't officially commit to 100% development until after the allstar game if they have vets on the team.

I have no explanation for RHJ's benching other than KA possibly thinking that there's a small chance Bogs and Skil could shoot us back into the game while RHJ wouldn't be able to.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Why Bogs on Hayward and not RHJ though in the 4th? Didn't he also put Bogs on Butler when we played the Bulls too?

It seems Kenny has decided that even though RHJ is our best perimeter defender by a long way (Whitehead is getting closer) that he can only play as a small ball 4 and cannot defend wings anymore. Just weird.

[TinmanZBoy]

Not sure Whitehead is a PG to tell you the truth but he's shown flashes as a finisher at the rim and some ability to get in the lane.

yeah... and he is probably a career backup, so his position doesnt matter as much. combo gaurd off the bench is a role he can make a long career out of. i thought he was our best player other then booker tonight

He reminds me of Stuckey with better D.

Stuckey is way better offensively at this point

[NyCeEvO]

What's the definition for FG% at rim? Is it the field goal of the opposition when Brook is standing within 2 feet of the basket?

Even if that was the metric I can see why he'd look good there. He's fine when he's that close but he's usually not in a stationary position that close to the basket.

Where do you find the "defense in PnR" stat? That's also flaky because that wouldn't account for plays like Heyward setting up JJ for the wide open 3 at the end of the game. If Brook hedges that pick on PnR, Joe's man stays with him and he's never that wide open for a shot.

I agree with you. I don't care what those stats say. We've seen it every game countless times and we've called it out too often for me to believe that he's actually the decent PnR defender that the stats suggest.



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Synergy and NBA.com track those stats with little to no explanation of either. so its a real grey area.

How is FG% against factored if you send the guy to the FT line? its not a made FG so it doesnt hurt the percentage. how does it factor when the guy misses but someone had to help you cause you got beat so bad and his man got an easy put back or wide open 3? how does it factor if brooks guy gets his own rebound twice before dunking it? is that 33% on 1 of 3 even though the guy dominated brook on the possession?

to me its a completely unreliable stat with alot of flaws.

I want to post these videos because its SO obvious wathcing it. DVR all the games and watch alot of them a second time with fast forward to look at pick and roll situations and some other things that interest me. whent eams DONT score on us in the pick and roll its suprising, and usually due to an il advised decision by the offense.

I'm glad I don't have DVR cuz I'd probably notice it even more and go crazy.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Prokorov]

I can handle loss after loss if its getting minutes into our kids. The Seives don't have it in them to win us games, so why is RHJ and LeVert playing 14 minutes each? If we lost by 15 and those 2 both played 25 minutes I couldn't care less. What does the team get out of a double digit loss at the hands of the same closing unit who have brought us so many losses when our 2 best kids don't touch the floor in the 4th?

I think Levert is still on a minutes restriction (and rightly so IMO). We're still trying to take it easy with him.

Also, we're still not even half way through the season yet. Usually teams don't officially commit to 100% development until after the allstar game if they have vets on the team.

I have no explanation for RHJ's benching other than KA possibly thinking that there's a small chance Bogs and Skil could shoot us back into the game while RHJ wouldn't be able to.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

LeVert played 24 minutes the game before and 20 minutes the game before that. 14 minutes after 3 days rest doesn't make sense to me. And imo RHJ has just as much of a chance of getting stops to get us back in the game as the Seives do at shooting us back in.

Unless RHJ was going to play center he wasnt going to help get stops. Jazz went pick and roll or horns all but 1 half court possession the last 5 minutes. our only real shot was to rain threes or have someone get hot

[NyCeEvO]

I can handle loss after loss if its getting minutes into our kids. The Seives don't have it in them to win us games, so why is RHJ and LeVert playing 14 minutes each? If we lost by 15 and those 2 both played 25 minutes I couldn't care less. What does the team get out of a double digit loss at the hands of the same closing unit who have brought us so many losses when our 2 best kids don't touch the floor in the 4th?

I think Levert is still on a minutes restriction (and rightly so IMO). We're still trying to take it easy with him.

Also, we're still not even half way through the season yet. Usually teams don't officially commit to 100% development until after the allstar game if they have vets on the team.

I have no explanation for RHJ's benching other than KA possibly thinking that there's a small chance Bogs and Skil could shoot us back into the game while RHJ wouldn't be able to.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

LeVert played 24 minutes the game before and 20 minutes the game before that. 14 minutes after 3 days rest doesn't make sense to me. And imo RHJ has just as much of a chance of getting stops to get us back in the game as the Seives do at shooting us back in.

Levert has nothing to do with bodily rest and everything to do with getting his foot adjusted to handling more and more minutes. He was out for a long time. You don't want to shock his body and especially his movement by going from no activity to 30 mpg. I have zero issues with how they're handling him.

And who knows...maybe RHJ is in the doghouse for all of those wild whirling dervish layups he would take in trying to force a shot at the basket lol.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Prokorov]

Yeah but it's a lot worse losing with guys who clearly don't learn from their mistakes and don't offer much upside either. The most upside we will see from Bojan is more scoring.

Joe Harris is an example. He isn't a talented defender or particularly great in any area but he competes. He went into the paint and dunked inside which he rarely ever does, Whitehead stuffed Gobert at the rim. It's effort. Toughness. Fearless basketball. Some have it. Some don't. Bojan doesn't and this is not anything new.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

i think bojan plays hard. he just isnt athletic. he is competitive and emotional just like those guys. Harris shot was way off. he was liek 3 feet short on an airball. also coming off injury. cant argue much with him not on the floor. Kilpatrick has sparked some late 4th quarter surges for us, i dont see any issue with him on the floor late.

i think this is just a grass is greener thing. if harris or whitehead close the game, turn it over a ton they would be getting heat just the same.

Whitehead did make mistakes that cost us but again, that's something to live with because he is learning. Same with Harris and it's not about closing. It's the bigger picture.

You got torched by Trey Burke replacing Bradley Beal. You should be embarrassed, individually speaking. Bogie has always had a knack for disappearing. Dating back to the days we were tracking him as a euro-stash in 2012.

Burke going off was us going under on everything and helping on the pick and roll. thats not on our gaurds... we stopped doing that second half and burke disappeared. (20 at half with 0 missed, 7 second half). but that led to a dunk fest when we didnt help on every 1-5 pick and roll.

i dont think whitehead did anything to cost us... if anything he sparked our 2 big runs. a layup, block on gobert, and a 3 put us up 8. he didnt play mistake free but dont think he hurt us. also alot to ask any gaurd to fight through every high screen

[Prokorov]

I think Levert is still on a minutes restriction (and rightly so IMO). We're still trying to take it easy with him.

Also, we're still not even half way through the season yet. Usually teams don't officially commit to 100% development until after the allstar game if they have vets on the team.

I have no explanation for RHJ's benching other than KA possibly thinking that there's a small chance Bogs and Skil could shoot us back into the game while RHJ wouldn't be able to.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Why Bogs on Hayward and not RHJ though in the 4th? Didn't he also put Bogs on Butler when we played the Bulls too?

It seems Kenny has decided that even though RHJ is our best perimeter defender by a long way (Whitehead is getting closer) that he can only play as a small ball 4 and cannot defend wings anymore. Just weird.

gotta look big picture. forget the wins... RHJ's offense has been the best its been all year at the 4 spot. they need to take a look at him and see where he can and cant help us so we are ahead of the curve down the road

[Prokorov]

What's the definition for FG% at rim? Is it the field goal of the opposition when Brook is standing within 2 feet of the basket?

Even if that was the metric I can see why he'd look good there. He's fine when he's that close but he's usually not in a stationary position that close to the basket.

Where do you find the "defense in PnR" stat? That's also flaky because that wouldn't account for plays like Heyward setting up JJ for the wide open 3 at the end of the game. If Brook hedges that pick on PnR, Joe's man stays with him and he's never that wide open for a shot.

I agree with you. I don't care what those stats say. We've seen it every game countless times and we've called it out too often for me to believe that he's actually the decent PnR defender that the stats suggest.



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Synergy and NBA.com track those stats with little to no explanation of either. so its a real grey area.

How is FG% against factored if you send the guy to the FT line? its not a made FG so it doesnt hurt the percentage. how does it factor when the guy misses but someone had to help you cause you got beat so bad and his man got an easy put back or wide open 3? how does it factor if brooks guy gets his own rebound twice before dunking it? is that 33% on 1 of 3 even though the guy dominated brook on the possession?

to me its a completely unreliable stat with alot of flaws.

I want to post these videos because its SO obvious wathcing it. DVR all the games and watch alot of them a second time with fast forward to look at pick and roll situations and some other things that interest me. whent eams DONT score on us in the pick and roll its suprising, and usually due to an il advised decision by the offense.

I'm glad I don't have DVR cuz I'd probably notice it even more and go crazy.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

lol why do you think im always here trashing him so hard...

[JayJayFor3]

Synergy and NBA.com track those stats with little to no explanation of either. so its a real grey area.

How is FG% against factored if you send the guy to the FT line? its not a made FG so it doesnt hurt the percentage. how does it factor when the guy misses but someone had to help you cause you got beat so bad and his man got an easy put back or wide open 3? how does it factor if brooks guy gets his own rebound twice before dunking it? is that 33% on 1 of 3 even though the guy dominated brook on the possession?

to me its a completely unreliable stat with alot of flaws.

I want to post these videos because its SO obvious wathcing it. DVR all the games and watch alot of them a second time with fast forward to look at pick and roll situations and some other things that interest me. whent eams DONT score on us in the pick and roll its suprising, and usually due to an il advised decision by the offense.

I'm glad I don't have DVR cuz I'd probably notice it even more and go crazy.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

lol why do you think im always here trashing him so hard...

Brook Lopez should've sign your autograph the last time you asked.

[Prokorov]

I'm glad I don't have DVR cuz I'd probably notice it even more and go crazy.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

lol why do you think im always here trashing him so hard...

Brook Lopez should've sign your autograph the last time you asked.

I have an autographed ball from him. met him more then once. he is a great guy which makes it really tough to hate on him. but he just isnt a guy you build your team around and he makes it really hard to defend as a team.

[Curns13]

Why Bogs on Hayward and not RHJ though in the 4th? Didn't he also put Bogs on Butler when we played the Bulls too?

It seems Kenny has decided that even though RHJ is our best perimeter defender by a long way (Whitehead is getting closer) that he can only play as a small ball 4 and cannot defend wings anymore. Just weird.

gotta look big picture. forget the wins... RHJ's offense has been the best its been all year at the 4 spot. they need to take a look at him and see where he can and cant help us so we are ahead of the curve down the road

That doesn't mean he should exclusively be a 4. No reason he can't still contribute in both spots.

[antique0o0]

Guess how many turnovers will the Nets commit?
Jazz defense is great.

Hope the Nets can Move the ball without all those turnovers and do a better job on P&R defense.

15 turnovers. LV and Bogs are the only players who didn't turn the ball over. However Bogs' defense was still unwatchable.
Again, Jazz is a good defensive team and played a lot P&R offensively.

[hood30]

This is the thing that needs to be brought home.

The Nets spent 80% of training camp focusing on defense....80%!

Yet despite spending the overwhelming majority of time focusing on it, they have the worst defense in the league.

Plenty of teams have been alright with bad wing defense because they've usually had a center who was a defensive anchor. But on this team, Lopez is routintely called out in 1/5, 2/5, and 3/5 PnRs because they know he's not coming out to guard them.

So after a wing beats Skil or Bogs, you at least hope that the center can hedge a little so Bogs, Kilpatrick and others can catch up to their man. Instead their man goes around the screen and they have a good 5-6 feet of free space in front of them to either shoot, attack the basket, or drive and kick.

Thibs renowned ICE defense was predicated on forcing ball handlers to the sidelines and baseline because 1) the OOB lines serve as an extra defender and 2) the most advantageous spot for a ballhandler to be is in the middle of the key, from where he can make a short pass to any spot on the court or take a straight jumper.

We're coulpling terrible wing defense with not existent PnR help. That's a recipe for utter disaster.

While Brook is great on the offensive end, I wish there was someway that we can measure how Brook's lack of footspeed enables us to give up so many easy shots off of PnRs/PnPs or when we collapse to help out Brook and leave guys open for wide open shots.

Yup, this is spot on.... the issue is some things you can practice all you want but if you dont have the talent it wont mean alot. and if your big cant defend you are behind the 8 ball. i mean i can go out and try and practice dunking 8 hours a day but at 5'11" with 2 ACL surgeries it aint gonna happen

As far as measuring brooks pick and rolls, tough to do. ive tried to track it, but the video really is what does it most justice. Dirk tried to help me with videos but sitll having trouble downloading them from my league pass online. If i can find a way to download the videos, ill post youtube clips of all brook pick and roll situations and the results.

i dont trust this "FG% at the rim" and "defense in pick and roll" stats as they seem very imperfect and dont account for the end result

His sheer size is what makes him an effective rim protector % wise. Just being that big helps him tremendously but what good is that if he can't move his feet? Same issue with his rebounding, he's just too damn slow. If during the play he's already at the rim defending then yeah he can alter shots but if you have him covering PnR's you're defense is dead. The fact that SK/Bogs are a joke defensively just compounds the problems on D for us. This is why we can't have both Bogs and SK on at the same time when Lopez is in... our D suffers too much.

The problem with Brook is not his slow feet, but his slow reaction time...His brain is slow to react to the action on the court..There's plenty of center who are slow footed but does react well enough..Guys like Yao Ming and Sabonis were slow footed but could react okay to plays.


Lopez brain is slow to identify what's going on, on the court to react quick enough...There was a period last night where Gobert was able to grab 3 straight offensive rebound and Lopez was standing there watching and reacting "in slow motion".

I still think Lopez is not the biggest problem on this team...I think Marks did a poor job picking the players to surround Brook....Marks needed to go after Athletic/physical big men that can rebound to balance out Lopez's weakness...The fact that you have Hamilton, Bennett and Scola behind Lopez is really where the problem is located.

Marks should call the Sixers and see what they want for Noel..Maybe Bogs, RHJ and Whitehead or a combination for get Noel.

[TTNN]

This is the shot chart of Jazz on the 4th quarter. they shot 14/22, a 63.6%! Nets hold Jazz 39.2% FG% first half, 25% in 3Q, but just collapsed in 4th. I don't get what it is, but I still don't think that's just one or two players could not defend, it is just that they could not defend the whole game, and they will just somehow give up in some point. That's frustrating.

The first three-quarters were by far one of the best defensive game this season, but I don't get what happened in the 4th quarter. They just let Jazz get in too easy.

http://stats.nba.com/events/#!/?flag=3&CFID=&CFPARAMS=&PlayerID=0&TeamID=1610612762&GameID=0021600515&ContextMeasure=FGA&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&RangeType=2&StartPeriod=1&EndPeriod=10&StartRange=21600&EndRange=28800&section=game&sct=plot

Looking at the play clips, a lot of them were P&R, and our P&R defence is in question. Kenny did try to change up things, but looks to me it is

1. our peripheral defence is pretty much not there, no one can stay in front of and pressure the ball handler with or even without a screen. At the best, they were trailing, a lot of times they just give up, and left their big hanging with those fast ball handlers.

2. our bigs trying very hard with those fast guards but they could not stop them, they are not fast enough to stop their drive, or they give them too much space to shoot over them. In one of the possession, Hamilton was back paddling and give the driver all the space to come in and then shot a 2 ft jumper.

3. There is no coordinated P&R defence somehow between guards and bigs. Does not looks like we play ICE in any of those possessions, there was one time Booker's man go out and set a screen, and Booker just did nothing, and just left guard trailing. They were just either completely switch or not switch. I just feel on this team, neither guards or bigs are good enough to defend P&R by themselves.

However, that said, I'm still encouraged by their first three quarters defense, they show great efforts.

BTW, this game Sean Kilpatrik looks a little off, not sure whether the player meeting had anything to do with it. Very happy Kenny finally start to chew on Sean when he were not defending, Kenny really should have done that earlier. He need to hold player accountable in the defensive end.

[MrDollarBills]

I think Levert is still on a minutes restriction (and rightly so IMO). We're still trying to take it easy with him.

Also, we're still not even half way through the season yet. Usually teams don't officially commit to 100% development until after the allstar game if they have vets on the team.

I have no explanation for RHJ's benching other than KA possibly thinking that there's a small chance Bogs and Skil could shoot us back into the game while RHJ wouldn't be able to.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

LeVert played 24 minutes the game before and 20 minutes the game before that. 14 minutes after 3 days rest doesn't make sense to me. And imo RHJ has just as much of a chance of getting stops to get us back in the game as the Seives do at shooting us back in.

Levert has nothing to do with bodily rest and everything to do with getting his foot adjusted to handling more and more minutes. He was out for a long time. You don't want to shock his body and especially his movement by going from no activity to 30 mpg. I have zero issues with how they're handling him.

And who knows...maybe RHJ is in the doghouse for all of those wild whirling dervish layups he would take in trying to force a shot at the basket lol.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

RHJ was 3-5FG on those drives, he committed only one low IQ play turnover. He also got to the line 7 times, more than any other Net, because of those drives. He was not the problem last night

[NyCeEvO]

LeVert played 24 minutes the game before and 20 minutes the game before that. 14 minutes after 3 days rest doesn't make sense to me. And imo RHJ has just as much of a chance of getting stops to get us back in the game as the Seives do at shooting us back in.

Levert has nothing to do with bodily rest and everything to do with getting his foot adjusted to handling more and more minutes. He was out for a long time. You don't want to shock his body and especially his movement by going from no activity to 30 mpg. I have zero issues with how they're handling him.

And who knows...maybe RHJ is in the doghouse for all of those wild whirling dervish layups he would take in trying to force a shot at the basket lol.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

RHJ was 3-5FG on those drives, he committed only one low IQ play turnover. He also got to the line 7 times, more than any other Net, because of those drives. He was not the problem last night

I wasn't referring to last night. I meant him paying for past transgressions. But like I said, I have no idea why he wasn't playing.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[CalamityX12]

maybe its a bit much for me to comment, but i dont think Whitehead is an integral part to future.....

too many BAD turnovers..... you'd think he'll learn not to do the things that get him in trouble....