The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

[PDXKnight]

In Portland there was a point where people were debating whether to start Crabbe or CJ. Obviously CJ won out and wound up being the better player of the 2 but it goes to show that AC isn't a slouch by any means. I'm interested to see how he grows as he gets more used to having the ball in his hands.

[TheNetsFan]

i never had an issue with crabbe, my issue was with marks who i still have an issue with him paying crabbe and insane contract. i stand by you dont give 2nd round pick role players coming off joe harirs numbers an enormous contract.

im encouraged to see him doing more off the dribble. i like crabbe, he fits and works hard. but id still wouldnt do that trade 100 times out of 100

On the bright side, after this season he'll only have 2 years remaining on his deal, and as far as we know, his contract has not precluded us from making any significant moves that would have significantly benefited us thus far. It will hurt a bit this summer, but the following year he'll be a movable expiring contract.

[Paradise]

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[Netaman]

i never had an issue with crabbe, my issue was with marks who i still have an issue with him paying crabbe and insane contract. i stand by you dont give 2nd round pick role players coming off joe harirs numbers an enormous contract.

im encouraged to see him doing more off the dribble. i like crabbe, he fits and works hard. but id still wouldnt do that trade 100 times out of 100

On the bright side, after this season he'll only have 2 years remaining on his deal, and as far as we know, his contract has not precluded us from making any significant moves that would have significantly benefited us thus far. It will hurt a bit this summer, but the following year he'll be a movable expiring contract.

Exactly. And the only way it really hurts this summer is if a better use of the money is possible. With Aaron Gordon beasting he's not going to be an option. Maybe Jabari Parker will be but not sure he'd even be worth the overpayment. We know we aren't a destination for max UFAs yet. And had Lin not gotten hurt and opted out as expected all of that still would have been on the table.

Cap dumps are what they are, but much worse than Crabbe are the dead contracts like Mozgov and though a lot smaller, Nicholson. Crabbe is a useful player who is overpaid, but not completely out of whack with similar two-way guards like Wes Matthews. I'm very encouraged that he's played good defense and produced more with higher usage. Before the back issues flared he'd been consistently logging 30 mpg and scoring 15 ppg on good %. Hopefully that's a trend that continues the rest of this season.

[Prokorov]

This is not a specific shot at anyone because I myself made comments last year that there wasn't much difference between Harris and Crabbe, but last night's first look went a long way towards putting that notion to rest. Forget the shooting. His length and athleticism, especially his quickness, is a lot better. Now add in the shooting and it's easy to see what the Nets saw in the first place. He has prime-Korver potential.

After 25 games (26 now):

Crabbe
27.6 Minutes
12.3 points
3.9 rebounds
1.5 assists
0.6 steals
0.3 blocks

39.7% Field Goal%
37.9% Three point %
83.3 Free throw %

55.0 TS%
11.8 PER
106 ORTG
110 DRTG
+0.4 DWS
-1.10 DRPM

Harris
23.9 Minutes
10.9 points
2.9 rebounds
1.3 assists
0.6 steals
0.3 blocks

45.3% Field Goal%
38.9% Three point %
70.4 Free throw %

59.9 TS%
12.2 PER
113 ORTG
111 DRTG
+0.4 DWS
-1.14 DRPM

Hard to argue Harris hasnt been better offensively... nearly identical in raw stats (especially if you normalize minutes) with a mugh higher FG%/TS% and a higher 3 point percentage and PER as well as ORTG. The only place crabbe really has him on offense is FT shooting. Defensively its also near identical, crabbe with a minor edge in DRTG and DRPM.

Really wanted to take the high road but couldnt resist the "i told you so" type post now that we have a decent sample.... but in my defense i got FLAMED for saying crabbe was the same/on the same plain as Crabbe...

People said harris was a "giant scrub" because of his FG% last year (just 42.5%) where are they now that crabbes is under 40? I got evicerated for saying harris is every but the three point shooter, and that crabbes percentages will look similar once the volume is up and he shoots more on the mvoe in the nets offense like harris did (crabbe at 37.9%, harris was 38.5% last year... crabbe now taking over 6 threes a game, volume up, percentage down.)

And this isnt a knock on Crabbe... i love what he has done in a nets uniform. hard worker, great fit. this is more a middle finger to people who consistenyl troled me and called me names for daring to say harris and crabbe are pretty much the same guy (even showing it statistically and backrgound/age/draft pick/college careers wise).

like crabbe the player, love the fit but still think it was an enormous insane overpay and still think crabbe is no better then harris. my same points since day 1.

[MrDollarBills]

Can't say that you're wrong at all dude. I love Crabbe but i get nervous looking at our cap management going forward.

[Roy Tarpley]

like crabbe the player, love the fit but still think it was an enormous insane overpay and still think crabbe is no better then harris. my same points since day 1.

I agreed with you from day 1 on this, based on the stats. but i didn't agree with you calling booker and lin f-level scrubs.

[treiz]

Spoiler:

This is not a specific shot at anyone because I myself made comments last year that there wasn't much difference between Harris and Crabbe, but last night's first look went a long way towards putting that notion to rest. Forget the shooting. His length and athleticism, especially his quickness, is a lot better. Now add in the shooting and it's easy to see what the Nets saw in the first place. He has prime-Korver potential.

After 25 games (26 now):

Crabbe
27.6 Minutes
12.3 points
3.9 rebounds
1.5 assists
0.6 steals
0.3 blocks

39.7% Field Goal%
37.9% Three point %
83.3 Free throw %

55.0 TS%
11.8 PER
106 ORTG
110 DRTG
+0.4 DWS
-1.10 DRPM

Harris
23.9 Minutes
10.9 points
2.9 rebounds
1.3 assists
0.6 steals
0.3 blocks

45.3% Field Goal%
38.9% Three point %
70.4 Free throw %

59.9 TS%
12.2 PER
113 ORTG
111 DRTG
+0.4 DWS
-1.14 DRPM

Hard to argue Harris hasnt been better offensively... nearly identical in raw stats (especially if you normalize minutes) with a mugh higher FG%/TS% and a higher 3 point percentage and PER as well as ORTG. The only place crabbe really has him on offense is FT shooting. Defensively its also near identical, crabbe with a minor edge in DRTG and DRPM.

Really wanted to take the high road but couldnt resist the "i told you so" type post now that we have a decent sample.... but in my defense i got FLAMED for saying crabbe was the same/on the same plain as Crabbe...

People said harris was a "giant scrub" because of his FG% last year (just 42.5%) where are they now that crabbes is under 40? I got evicerated for saying harris is every but the three point shooter, and that crabbes percentages will look similar once the volume is up and he shoots more on the mvoe in the nets offense like harris did (crabbe at 37.9%, harris was 38.5% last year... crabbe now taking over 6 threes a game, volume up, percentage down.)

And this isnt a knock on Crabbe... i love what he has done in a nets uniform. hard worker, great fit. this is more a middle finger to people who consistenyl troled me and called me names for daring to say harris and crabbe are pretty much the same guy (even showing it statistically and backrgound/age/draft pick/college careers wise).

like crabbe the player, love the fit but still think it was an enormous insane overpay and still think crabbe is no better then harris. my same points since day 1.

Dude it's still the case, but this time the goal posts have been moved back and instead they try to say getting Crabbe was necessary to get rid of Nicholson and his "horrendous" $6 million per year contract.

[kamaze]

He didn't shoot that much in Portland I'm fine with him coming off the bench when Dlo comes back. Stauskas is a good 3pt shooter to go along with AC and Harris. Everyone has a off game what matters most is he made it when they needed it.

Are you guys going to complain about his contract forever? (Prok) It is what it is. The time to complain was years ago Marks is doing a damn good job righting the ship.

[Lorenzomax7]

Allen Crappe

[hood30]

I'm a bit surprised Crabbe is not doing better...He really needed to get around 15ppg. He still need to get a bit more aggressive in looking for his shots.
Crabbe is a good fit and provide the team with very good 3point shooting but is he worth it for the amount of money he's getting paid is another story.

Season is not over so let's see whether he can improve.

[Sleepyazn]

I hope we trade his ass

[vincecarter4pres]

This guy is so wildly inconsistent. He could be the new Allan Houston if he focused and had some confidence.

[Prokorov]

He didn't shoot that much in Portland I'm fine with him coming off the bench when Dlo comes back. Stauskas is a good 3pt shooter to go along with AC and Harris. Everyone has a off game what matters most is he made it when they needed it.

Are you guys going to complain about his contract forever? (Prok) It is what it is. The time to complain was years ago Marks is doing a damn good job righting the ship.

Marks is doing an ok job.... but he is handcuffing us to a group of role players... which was fine before they were drastically overpaid role players. we dont have 50 million in cap anymore. i like this core and crabbe fits but you simply cant give a bench shooting role player that kind of money and not have it hurt down the road.

your point on stauskus makes it even more clear. we could have harris AND stauskus for 1/4 of what crabbe makes

people will realize this the next 2 offseasons. check my cap thread

[Prokorov]

This guy is so wildly inconsistent. He could be the new Allan Houston if he focused and had some confidence.

Houston wasnt just a shooter, he could handle it and score in other ways. crabbe is a jump shooter. more of a Novak then a Houston.

[Prokorov]

I'm a bit surprised Crabbe is not doing better...He really needed to get around 15ppg. He still need to get a bit more aggressive in looking for his shots.
Crabbe is a good fit and provide the team with very good 3point shooting but is he worth it for the amount of money he's getting paid is another story.

Season is not over so let's see whether he can improve.

He's not a scorer... he wanst in portland and he wasnt at Cal. he is a jump shooter... increasing his minutes/volume was always going to hurt his shooting percentage more then it was going to help his scoring average.

it wasnt tough to predeict he would revert back to sub 40% from three with such an increase in volume and taking less catch and shoot stand still threes

[TheNetsFan]

We simply need to hold out hope that he follows the same development arc as LeVert, RHJ & Dinwiddie have under Atkinson. It took each of them about a full year in the system before they really stepped their games up a notch. People were bashing Marks for Dinwiddie over Yogi, thought RHJ was an offensive liability, and that LeVert had regressed this season. Now there's Dinsanity, Kawhi-lite & Penny-Jr talk. It's far too soon to judge the Crabbe deal. If nothing else, you have to respect the conviction Marks has about the player. By the end of the season, Crabbe will be half way through his contract, and has not yet prevented us from making any significant roster moves that would have drastically bettered the team.

[Claud]

As of 1/4 of the season Prok was 100% on the money in regards to Crabbe. I know he has the green light but he takes a lot of forced shots IMO. The fact that he can't handle the ball at all really hurts his game. Defensively I think he's been a bit better than advertised but I notice his D suffers when his shot isn't going in on offense. Granted he's been in and out all season with injuries which does lead to inconsistency but we really need AC to step it up soon.

[MrDollarBills]

This guy is so wildly inconsistent. He could be the new Allan Houston if he focused and had some confidence.

Houston wasnt just a shooter, he could handle it and score in other ways. crabbe is a jump shooter. more of a Novak then a Houston.

Allan Houston was a beast when he played with Grant Hill in Detroit, dropping bombs at a 42% clip with a 58% TS. There's a reason why the Knicks gave him that money back then

Allen Crabbe hasn't shown to be anywhere near that kind of scoring ability, and he's being paid like it. TheNetsFan brings up a great point though. It took Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert a year in Kenny's system to round into form and all three of them are trending upwards big time. I'm kind of worried since he's a bit older than those guys, but I'm still going to give him a chance to improve.

[Sleepyazn]

This guy is so wildly inconsistent. He could be the new Allan Houston if he focused and had some confidence.

Houston wasnt just a shooter, he could handle it and score in other ways. crabbe is a jump shooter. more of a Novak then a Houston.

Allan Houston was a beast when he played with Grant Hill in Detroit, dropping bombs at a 42% clip with a 58% TS. There's a reason why the Knicks gave him that money back then

Allen Crabbe hasn't shown to be anywhere near that kind of scoring ability, and he's being paid like it. TheNetsFan brings up a great point though. It took Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert a year in Kenny's system to round into form and all three of them are trending upwards big time. I'm kind of worried since he's a bit older than those guys, but I'm still going to give him a chance to improve.

But even back then we saw flashes of what they could do and what they could add to their games. RHJ while his jumper was nonexistent had the jerky herky movement and ability to get to the line. LeVert in his rookie year showed signs of being a good PnR handler. Dinwiddie was shooting better then he ever did and showed smarts with the harden foul baiting. All Crabbe showed so far is that he's a jumpshooter. He doesn't even work that hard to get open shots either. He's not working as hard as Harris is. We see Harris at least cut to the rim, I haven't seen Crabbe do that once. The only guy I trust less then Crabbe when dribbling is Acy.