A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us)

[MrDollarBills]

I don't believe for a second that king had Barnes rated below those players on his draft board. He said that to be dismissive of people kicking his face in for trading that pick

[NyCeEvO]

I don't believe for a second that king had Barnes rated below those players on his draft board. He said that to be dismissive of people kicking his face in for trading that pick

Agreed. The one thing this franchise knows how to do well is spin.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Yes its mostly Dwight's fault. But King put us in a terrible position to get him. That's just a fact. If we don't make the Wallace deal we keep our pick and the Magic have much more of an incentive to trade with us. Or we have a tremendous asset to make a deal for someone else.I'm not recreating history. This is agreed on by 90% of Nets fans, that the Wallace deal ruined our chances of getting Dwight.

The Dwight deal was done. DWight is the one who opted out of it, not the Magic.

So what if the Wallace deal was "one move." It had a huge impact on the future of this team. The Celtics deal was also one move, and it took away our pick for the next five years. And I never said we would draft Lillard. But without Wallace we probably would have lost more games. And even if we didn't we almost certainly would have included that pick in a trade for someone else. Or we would have drafted someone like Harrison Barnes and traded them mid-season. Either way it was a move that **** us big time. King may have been right about the draft, but Wallace sucked. And there no justification for trading for him.

Barnes wasnt on Kings list. It was going to be Zeller or Henson.

Nets had a worst winning % after the trade. Statistically, we would have had a worst pick if we didnt trade.

We also almost certainly lose DWill if we stand pat.

It was a bad move as is and it would have ended poorly if we didnt make it. Wallace sucked but so did Zeller and Henson.

I never said I could be a GM. But youre a moron if you don't think the Nets are the most poorly managed franchise in the NBA. This is universally agreed on by the media and fans of other teams. Take off your homer glasses for a second. Atlanta was definitely going to trade Johnson. And based on other trades of similar value the picks swaps were stupid. Who includes pick swaps in deals? You almost never see that in the NBA.

King essentially circumvented the Stepihen rule by using pick swaps instead. He created an inability for us to acquire young talent for years on end. I would way rather send Marshon Brooks then all those pick swaps. It was a terrible, terrible move. Atlanta wanted to dump JJ's contract. Remember when we traded Vince Carter and got NO PICKS. Its the same concept.

Yes D Will bears the most blame. But King took way too many stupid risks and hampered our flexibility with his pick swaps and the Wallace deal. That much is clear.

No, the Nets have poor ownership. King isnt at the top of mountain of management. He is an employee who was given directives by non basketball people.

Atlanta definitely wasnt going to trade Joe since no other team could afford him. You like to say what you would have done after the fact but once again, where is your post saying that you would have given them Marshon over picks?

Do you sell used cars? You use horrible sales techniques when posting. The underlined portions are what they call putting people in the majority. So if I dont agree with what 90% of Net fans say what does that mean? Did you take a survey to get that number? Did you get appointed by the fan base to speak for them? You are a smart guy you know this is a good deal.

The Dwight deal was not done. You made that up. The Magic had no incentive to trade Dwight when we didn't have a lottery pick to give them in return and Lopez was coming off too many injuries. If we had a lottery pick we would have been in a great spot to get him. And King RUINED our chances. I don't know how you can possibly deny that.

I don't care who you think was on King's list. We don't know who King would have drafted. And we don't know what our record would be without Wallace. According to certain stimulations, we would have lost more games without Wallace. But either way even if youre right and we drafted Zeller. Rookie Zeller still had a lot of value and could have been used in a trade to improve the team.

The we "would have lost D-Will" argument doesn't hold water. Hes not giving up all that money to go to Dallas where Cuban made no effort and didn't even attend the meeting. Not to mention there are plenty of other deals King could have made with all the assets we had that didn't involve trading for Wallace or giving away all of our draft picks in pick swaps. Either way you look at its a failure.

Atlanta would of course trade Joe. Ferry wanted to rebuild. And trading all those pick swaps for him didn't make sense. If they were truly sticking to that point, then the Nets could have traded for someone else. But I don't believe for a second that Atlanta would have gotten more value then what we gave, without the pick swaps.

I couldn't say that at the time because King HID THE DETAILS. Had I known that he was including all those pick swaps then yes I would have rather included Marshon. A lot of people would.

No, I don't sell used cars. But please don't criticize my arguments, when you lack basic logical ability.

You are the only Nets fan on this entire forum that doesn't think King is a bad GM. You are akin to people who deny climate change or gravity.

[MrDollarBills]

The Magic didn't want to trade for Lopez who was injured and they also didn't want to deal Dwight to us because we tampered.

[Freddie Mitch]

Don't bait.

- Rich Rane

[jbeachboy]

nets tampered?

[shakendfries]

Lichtenstein: King, Not Hollins, Should Be On Hot Seat For Nets’ Bad Start

Former Nets coach Jason Kidd famously discarded his necktie at the onset of the 2014 New Year. Brooklyn rebounded from a gruesome 10-21 start to win 34 of its final 47 games and gain entry into the postseason.

Lionel Hollins, who is now in his second season leading the Nets, saw his team stumble out of the gate to an 0-7 start so he shaved his beard prior to Wednesday’s game in Houston. The Nets responded by pulling off the upset, 106-98, to end all worries that this group would knock the 2009-10 version — which lost its first 18 contests — out of the record books.

Of course, neither of the two appearance adjustments had anything to do with subsequent events on the court. And there’s certainly no comparison between the talent levels on those two rosters. These Nets have no shot at playing beyond Game 82.

That’s why you haven’t heard me call for Hollins’ head, even though I ranted in this space seemingly every other week from the day Kidd was hired until he bolted for Milwaukee the following June that he was the wrong man at the wrong time for the job.

A week ago, Bovada listed Hollins as the second-most likely coach to be fired this season — at 3-to-1 odds, which prompted Brooklyn general manager Billy King to respond on Monday that Hollins is not on the hot seat despite the team’s early struggles.

It’s very easy for fans to pin the blame on the coach when their team is lousy. In New York City, the complaints can get loud. Social media has only increased the decibel levels.

In this situation, it’s not warranted.

I certainly don’t agree with some of Hollins’ major and minor choices in games. It was reported that he had to be prodded by management last week to insert Rondae Hollis-Jefferson into the starting lineup despite the obvious nature of the energetic rookie’s much-needed skillset. Watching Andrea Bargnani play defense makes me want to poor salt into my eyes, yet he is often paired with immobile center Brook Lopez. And why has the useless Wayne Ellington been getting crunch-time minutes while Thaddeus Young rots on the bench?

Still, it’s hard to argue that the Nets’ record would have been substantially better with someone else in charge. Other than last Friday’s loss to the Lakers, the Nets have been the underdog in every affair.

It took the Rockets missing a LOT of wide-open looks for the Nets to pull out Wednesday’s game. Brooklyn, which entered the game as the league’s worst 3-point shooting team, actually made as many treys (eight) as the Morey-ballers despite 17 fewer attempts.

Hustle plays by reserves Shane Larkin and Thomas Robinson and efficient passing from Joe Johnson (10 assists, no turnovers) offset a rare off-shooting night by Lopez (6-for-17, including 0-for-5 in the second half) and allowed Brooklyn to break the century mark for the first time since opening night.

While there’s a fair chance that the Nets can extend the winning streak to two on Friday against the combusting Sacramento Kings, the rest of November’s schedule is pretty daunting.

It could get ugly — like possibly 3-14 ugly.

That doesn’t mean it will be Hollins’ fault.

There’s only so much he can do with this mix. I mean, how can you concoct a defensive scheme when your point guards can’t stay in front of penetrators or fight through screens, you get inconsistent help at the rim from your bigs, and your wings (other than Hollis-Jefferson) are too slow to close out on 3-point shots?

Bojan Bogdanovich had a sensational game against Houston from a statistical point of view (22 points, 9 rebounds), but he couldn’t guard anyone. Former Net chucker Marcus Thornton blew by him at will and the few times Bogdanovich was face to face with Rockets star James Harden, well, that just wasn’t fair.

That Harden finished with only 23 points was a miracle in itself. Even Johnson admitted that Harden misfired on a good number of shots he normally makes, including an uncontested corner 3-pointer with just under a minute remaining that could have cut it to a one-possession game.

Give Johnson some credit for playing a savvy game by keeping Harden off the foul line, where ‘The Beard” normally earns a substantial living. Harden had been averaging 12.7 free-throw attempts per game; the Nets limited him to five.

It’s kind of ironic that Johnson, who is known around the league as “Iso-Joe” for his one-on-one offensive prowess, is now more leaned on for his defensive and distribution attributes. But that’s probably how Hollins has to have the Nets play to be competitive, especially until Johnson gets his shooting percentage up from its current 32.6 percent atrocity.

Johnson may move at a snail’s pace, but he still sees the floor off the dribble infinitely better than either of the Nets’ point guards (Jarrett Jack and Larkin).

Only Johnson could have made the pass to Bogdanovich at the weak-side corner for an open 3-pointer that gave Brooklyn a 102-96 lead with 1:37 remaining. Larkin wouldn’t have seen it, while Jack would have floated up a prayer from the middle of the paint.

With so many one-dimensional players — scorers who can’t defend and defenders who can’t shoot — as well as players in the rotation like Bargnani and Ellington who are bad at everything, Hollins’ options are limited. In addition to not having a true point guard, there’s no “3 & D” wing who can both lock up the opposition’s top offensive threat and then convert open 3-pointers at the other end at a rate better than the league average.

Up front, much was made of the Lopez/Young re-signings in the summer, but they have a net rating of minus-12.1 in the 202 minutes they’ve played together this season, according to NBA.com. That’s not as awful as the minus-17.1 rating produced by Lopez and Bargnani, but it could explain why Hollins has only paired Lopez with Young for 29 fourth-quarter minutes over seven games.

I don’t believe Young and Lopez complement one another, contrary to those who didn’t notice that the Nets’ 13-6 dash to the 2014-15 season finish line was predominantly accumulated against tired and/or injury-depleted opponents.

Young works best close to the basket. So does Lopez. Young is not an elite rebounder. Neither is Lopez.

Of course, that didn’t matter much to King, who has no concept as to what makes a player valuable in today’s game, nor has he any clue as to how to fit pieces into a puzzle.

I believe King when he told the media in the preseason that he thought this group could contend for a playoff berth. It’s just further proof of his incompetence.

Not only is the Nets’ present depressing, King destroyed the franchise’s near future by failing to protect all the first-round draft picks he dealt/swapped in the various blockbuster deals over the years that didn’t pan out. The Nets do not own their own first-round selection until 2019, taking tanking this season out of the equation.

Let’s not also forget that it was King who swore by Kidd after one interview two years ago, even though he was less than two weeks into retirement as a player. King expected Kidd to immediately gain the respect of a veteran, win-now group despite having no experience at any aspect of coaching basketball at any level.

When Kidd left, King sought the man he should have hired in the first place. Hollins, unfortunately, took over a team in regression.

If anyone is to take the fall for this mess in Brooklyn, it should be the one who created it, not the one trying to work through it.

[MrDollarBills]

Can't blame Hollins for Johnson/Bogdanovic/Ellington playing F tier basketball.

[Net Sentence]

Can't blame Hollins for Johnson/Bogdanovic/Ellington playing F tier basketball.

Johnson has no grasp on the player he has become. He needs to adjust to his declining skill and be a pure catch and shoot player. He still thinks he is a primary option on offense because teams double team him still. He needs to realize teams double team him because he is the only shooting threat on the team. His pride is killing this team.

i think Bogs would play better if he was given a larger role. I would rather watch him run plays instead of Joe because at least Bogs has the ability to actually get to the rim when he drives.

[kerry kittles]

Can't blame Hollins for Johnson/Bogdanovic/Ellington playing F tier basketball.

But, you can blame King for a lot of that. We started the year with exactly one wing defender - RHJ. No surprise we are a bottom 5 team in defending the 3 ball. We started the year with a number of poor shooters - we are the worst 3 point shooting team in the league.

This roster is very poorly constructed as was pointed out at the beginning of the season, and Joe Johnson has been officially claimed by father time. You can kinda see the coming heading into the season as well - he was great for us in 2013-14, and then took a huge step back last year, and then has taken another huge step back this year.

[Paradise]

King is running out of excuses. Joe is declining, Bogdanovic is regressing. The two guards that he claimed will be our biggest go to options have been absolutely terrible. Wayne Ellington is still shooting like 30% from three and Bargnani, of course is still an embarrassment.

He doesn't deserve to walk away from his own mess this summer. He needs to be FIRED to make a statement.

[jbeachboy]

hey hollins, get joe johnson and put him on the bench, man is in his 15 or 16th year and is not a 30 plus minutes guy. let bogdanovic start at sf .

[Paradise]

hey hollins, get joe johnson and put him on the bench, man is in his 15 or 16th year and is not a 30 plus minutes guy. let bogdanovic start at sf .

That's still not a solution as long as Bogdanovic plays like a scared puppy.

[NyCeEvO]

King is running out of excuses. Joe is declining, Bogdanovic is regressing. The two guards that he claimed will be our biggest go to options have been absolutely terrible. Wayne Ellington is still shooting like 30% from three and Bargnani, of course is still an embarrassment.

He doesn't deserve to walk away from his own mess this summer. He needs to be FIRED to make a statement.

Prokhorov is here now. If it takes 2-3 blow out losses in a row to deliver the pink slip to King in person, so be it.

[jbeachboy]

hey hollins, get joe johnson and put him on the bench, man is in his 15 or 16th year and is not a 30 plus minutes guy. let bogdanovic start at sf .

That's still not a solution as long as Bogdanovic plays like a scared puppy.

id just want to see how he plays with the starters, he is playing scared but at least try something new before we trade these people. at least try some different combinations.


billy king isnt being fired before the end of season. he will try to make desperate moves at trade deadline to try and save his job.

[Paradise]

Ben Simmons looks like LeBron and Rondae has a Kawhi Leonard skill set. Both are 20. Our future immediately changes right there and that's without counting McCullough who has potential to be a two way stretch four. It's nauseating thinking of the opportunities wasted by Billy's idiocy that started with Gerald Wallace.

[NyCeEvO]

A growing contingent of people on the blog hate Hollins and believes he provides nothing positive for the team. While Hollins does leave me scratching my head at many moments during games, he does have a bailout card in that this roster is pretty bad.

If the team had more talent the expectations certainly would be higher and Hollins would be on the hook for getting us out on such a bad start. If there's one thing that's saving this team from being Philadelphia bad is that Hollins has them playing hard on most nights. They keep playing the game even if they're down. This was not happening before. The Nets needed to hit on every variable turning in their favor just to make the playoffs and we can clearly see that some of them clearly have not turned out for good.


Of course, King deserves to be on the hook. He's had enough fireable offenses in each full year he's been GM (with the exception of the year of the Boston trade).

One of my problems with King is that he realizes problems way too late and whenever he tries to take a stand on something, it usually ends up blowing up in his face.

I'm not even going to re-hash the previous Wallace trade and re-sign, the JJ trade, or the Boston trade. Aside from those, King still misses opportunities to protect himself/the franchise and it almost seems providential in that things King misses usually ends up being the thing that dooms the Nets.

— King almost traded Lopez to OKC for Lance Stephenson and Kendrick Perkins (who would've probably been flipped to MIN for Thad)
— King almost traded Lopez to OKC (again) for Reggie Jackson but OKC backed out at the last minute (which I think was payback for King doing it earlier last season to OKC)
— Instead of trading D-Will in a multi-team deal and/or forcing D-Will to play himself into trade value, he succumbed to D-Will's request to be stretched and bought out. Not only did Dallas get D-Will for 5mil/year, the Nets have D-Will's contract on the books for 5 seasons and King never requested to have the money Dallas pays D-Will subtracted from the amount he's owed by us.
— Instead of trading JJ (which I've argued should've been done a 1-2 seasons ago), he holds onto him with the belief that he'll have a tremendous season, only for JJ to turn around and do exactly what I said would happen last year. Now King wants to buy him out and receive nothing in return.

These are the individual small things that add up to significant ramifications and it's all because we have a GM who doesn't really think before he acts. He doesn't know when to trade or when to hold onto someone. It's maddening.

Until King is gone, fans will always feel like King is on the verge of making a move which will end up destroying the Nets even further.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't see the point of buying Johnson out.

[jbeachboy]

im still pissed we didnt pay gerald green and chose teletovic over him and yet the whole nets organization was okay with that.

[Paradise]

im still pissed we didnt pay gerald green and chose teletovic over him and yet the whole nets organization was okay with that.

We assumed we would be get Dwight and Teletovic would stretch the floor. As usual a mistake.