The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

[treiz]

Kenny asked Marks for more shooting and Marks did that.

Could you show me where this was stated please? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, should that be the case, you think trading for a player who gets paid $12m per year more (on a longer contract mind you) than the outgoing player is the suitable solution? Don't you think it's a bit overkill to spend $12m more per year on just a "shooter"? Surely there are cheaper alternatives out there if that was all Kenny requested, I mean Bojan got 2 year $21m, are you telling me we couldn't offer that to him?

[MGrand15]

I don't really see the plan with Crabbe if we're trying to get him to expand his game. If we just want him to be our Kyle Korver - mission accomplished. He's at a good percentage on a very high volume of attempts. Not easy to find someone like that. And he looks like he can easily bring his percentage to 40% by the end of the year. He usually heats up around January and gets into a groove.

I don't see why we don't call any post ups / mid-range ISOs for Crabbe. The same spots that RHJ scores from. Crabbe isn't some slow spot up shooter that needs a ton of space to get his shot off. He shoots better than 40% on tightly guarded 3s. Let him attack from 15 feet out where he can either just rise up for a jumper that no one can block or where he can get to the rim in one dribble. At the rim, he'll start drawing fouls or using his length to finish inside. He needs to learn to use his size on smaller guards too.

With Russell out and LeVert coming off the bench, it's the perfect time to see if this guy is more than a 3pt shooter.

[kamaze]

Kenny asked Marks for more shooting and Marks did that.

Could you show me where this was stated please? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, should that be the case, you think trading for a player who gets paid $12m per year more (on a longer contract mind you) than the outgoing player is the suitable solution? Don't you think it's a bit overkill to spend $12m more per year on just a "shooter"? Surely there are cheaper alternatives out there if that was all Kenny requested, I mean Bojan got 2 year $21m, are you telling me we couldn't offer that to him?

We're thinking different. You're trying to figure out what's best for the team me I'm just rooting for it.
You're stuck on his contract it's not $25 million for 6 years jeesh.

[kamaze]

If there is one area that Marks and Atkinson want to upgrade, it’s the three-point shooting. The Nets ranked fourth in the NBA in three-point shots attempted but only 26th in three-point accuracy (.338), meaning there were too many empty possessions.

“Kenny and I talked about our shooting a lot,” Marks said. “Obviously, we value the three-point shot. I am right there with him on that. It will be taking the right shot, but it will be having the right personnel to take those shots. We will certainly look to address that.”

Although they won’t have their guaranteed top-four pick in the draft because it was traded to Boston by the previous regime, Marks acquired the 22nd pick from Washington at the trade deadline to go with the Celtics’ 27th pick. Asked if he might try to package those to move up or take a young European to stash overseas for a year, he said anything is possible.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/nets/nets-gm-sean-marks-preaches-patience-big-picture-view-1.13481449

[treiz]

Kenny asked Marks for more shooting and Marks did that.

Could you show me where this was stated please? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, should that be the case, you think trading for a player who gets paid $12m per year more (on a longer contract mind you) than the outgoing player is the suitable solution? Don't you think it's a bit overkill to spend $12m more per year on just a "shooter"? Surely there are cheaper alternatives out there if that was all Kenny requested, I mean Bojan got 2 year $21m, are you telling me we couldn't offer that to him?

We're thinking different. You're trying to figure out what's best for the team me I'm just rooting for it.
You're stuck on his contract it's not $25 million for 6 years jeesh.

Who said it was?

Either way, does it or does it not affect our future potential moves? Thanks for posting that link btw, and here is the reason for why I was against this move, coming out of Marks' mouth.

“But you don’t want to go and sign free agents, and next thing you know, your payroll is capped out and you’re a 25-win team. So we’re going to have to build this strategically, have patience with it . . . We’re going to have a big-picture view on this looking down the road.”

[kamaze]

Could you show me where this was stated please? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, should that be the case, you think trading for a player who gets paid $12m per year more (on a longer contract mind you) than the outgoing player is the suitable solution? Don't you think it's a bit overkill to spend $12m more per year on just a "shooter"? Surely there are cheaper alternatives out there if that was all Kenny requested, I mean Bojan got 2 year $21m, are you telling me we couldn't offer that to him?

We're thinking different. You're trying to figure out what's best for the team me I'm just rooting for it.
You're stuck on his contract it's not $25 million for 6 years jeesh.

Who said it was?

Either way, does it or does it not affect our future potential moves? Thanks for posting that link btw, and here is the reason for why I was against this move, coming out of Marks' mouth.

“But you don’t want to go and sign free agents, and next thing you know, your payroll is capped out and you’re a 25-win team. So we’re going to have to build this strategically, have patience with it . . . We’re going to have a big-picture view on this looking down the road.”

I did. There's teams with guys like that on their roster. We don't have that problem..do we?

Brooklyn has the 24th highest payroll this year out of 29 teams and it goes down $10 million next year $50 million the next.
It's not like you get some of that money for being a season ticket holder either.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/

[LKIRNets]

I don't really see the plan with Crabbe if we're trying to get him to expand his game. If we just want him to be our Kyle Korver - mission accomplished. He's at a good percentage on a very high volume of attempts. Not easy to find someone like that. And he looks like he can easily bring his percentage to 40% by the end of the year. He usually heats up around January and gets into a groove.

I don't see why we don't call any post ups / mid-range ISOs for Crabbe. The same spots that RHJ scores from. Crabbe isn't some slow spot up shooter that needs a ton of space to get his shot off. He shoots better than 40% on tightly guarded 3s. Let him attack from 15 feet out where he can either just rise up for a jumper that no one can block or where he can get to the rim in one dribble. At the rim, he'll start drawing fouls or using his length to finish inside. He needs to learn to use his size on smaller guards too.

With Russell out and LeVert coming off the bench, it's the perfect time to see if this guy is more than a 3pt shooter.

Russell is still injured. LeVert is fine coming off the bench. Or they might figure Dinwiddie off the bench is the best course, to take off the load from him. By then Russell would know our offense and not be completely lost. But that's when he's deemed game ready. Long way from that. If Russell is ready he's starting, he's not going to the bench. For that they'd keep him shut down.

[MGrand15]

I don't really see the plan with Crabbe if we're trying to get him to expand his game. If we just want him to be our Kyle Korver - mission accomplished. He's at a good percentage on a very high volume of attempts. Not easy to find someone like that. And he looks like he can easily bring his percentage to 40% by the end of the year. He usually heats up around January and gets into a groove.

I don't see why we don't call any post ups / mid-range ISOs for Crabbe. The same spots that RHJ scores from. Crabbe isn't some slow spot up shooter that needs a ton of space to get his shot off. He shoots better than 40% on tightly guarded 3s. Let him attack from 15 feet out where he can either just rise up for a jumper that no one can block or where he can get to the rim in one dribble. At the rim, he'll start drawing fouls or using his length to finish inside. He needs to learn to use his size on smaller guards too.

With Russell out and LeVert coming off the bench, it's the perfect time to see if this guy is more than a 3pt shooter.

Russell is still injured. LeVert is fine coming off the bench. Or they might figure Dinwiddie off the bench is the best course, to take off the load from him. By then Russell would know our offense and not be completely lost. But that's when he's deemed game ready. Long way from that. If Russell is ready he's starting, he's not going to the bench. For that they'd keep him shut down.

Did you quote the wrong post? No idea what you're talking about dude

[Prokorov]

Never satisfied...

this is such a cheap shot....

People predicted (myself, treiz, nyce) this exact scenario:

-With more volume crabbes shooting percentages will drop
-with less catch and shoot crabbes percentages will drop
-in this offense he wont be more/much more productive then harris or shoot better
-with more volume his numbers will increase but not much and his efficiency will dip.

we got DESTROYED for those predictions and harris got dragged through the mud called a scrub and harris an elite shooter among the best in the game.

now, at least so far it seems like we were on to something and its "never satisfied"

Sorry if im not happy that our highest paid player is a role shooter making 19M who we can get the same thing from for 1.5M out of harris. Hell for the cost of Crabbe we could have Harris, Stauskus and 10+ million of cap room

you know who isnt going to be satisfied? alot of Nets fans when they realize we dont have much cap flexibility and the team you see now is basically what you get while being inthe luxury tax for the next 2-3 years

Get over it bruh he's overpaid and there's nothing you can do about it. Either accept it or complain about something you have no control over.

Sean Marks has done a good job I have faith in him.

Sean Marks overall has one a very solid job.

The Crabbe Trade/contract was horrible and a huge black eye on his resume. This is a Nets forums. were here to discuss stuff. This is the allen crabbe thread. its about him. So if you are too triggered to handle any critcism of marks, you dont have to read it. plain and simple.

The issue with you is, you crap on people when they point things out, offer ZERO insight of your own, then when proven wrong you come in with passive aggressive jabs and insults.

[Prokorov]

Never satisfied...

So we should never criticise Marks for anything he does right?

If you want to criticize him for this move what about Dinwiddie and Joe Harris? Those 2 cancel out the Crabbe contract imo that's what I mean by never satisfied.

Those were both good moves we have praised marks for.

should we only praise his good moves and ignore anytime he makes a poor one?

should we ignore the billy king gerald wallace/celtics trades because he traded plumlee and drafted RHJ with that pick?

[Prokorov]

It's still too early to pass final judgement but it's looking like the Crabbe trade was Marks' first fumble.

He had been on a roll ever since taking over as GM and made 2 good deals in the summer with the Lakers for Russell/moz and Raps for DMC/picks. However, the Crabbe deal was definitely a surprising way to finish the summer IMO. I thought it was weird that we were going to commit a big chunk of our cap space for decent but not great player but trusted Marks since history speaks for itself.

I still think Crabbe is searching for it and hasn't found it yet in BK. He didn't have training camp(Injured) plus has been in and out this season. Not an excuse but can't help in his adjustment. I think ultimately we have to wait a full year or two under the coaching staff to really see if he was worth it because as of now he isn't and the contract is looking albatross. He is settling for too many horrible shots and need to play with higher IQ. If the shot isn't there move it and get a better one. If he doesn't improve he's a bench player at 20m for the next 3 years. Dinwiddie-Russell-Levert-RHJ are the starting core in BK in my opinion.

Kenny went and told Marks he needed more shooting he added one of the top shooters it makes sense. He did so again in the Stauskas trade. For a first time GM he should be getting praised not criticized.

1) when did kenny say that?

2) if you told me to go buy you dish detergent and i came back with some Palmolive and a $4000 bill you would be ok with that?

No one has an issue with Crabbe as a fit. its the pricetag

[Prokorov]

If you want to criticize him for this move what about Dinwiddie and Joe Harris? Those 2 cancel out the Crabbe contract imo that's what I mean by never satisfied.

What about those moves? Marks deservedly got praised for those moves, similarly for the Russell and Carroll trades, some of us here even advocated that there was no reason for Crabbe because of Harris because of how expensive one is compared to the other.

Nobody here think that Marks is doing a terrible job overall, but in this case he made a mistake, if you ask those people who criticised him for this move, you would see that we are CLEARLY satisfied with Marks overall for the job he's done. Like we've been saying it's just this specific move, and just because he's done great things so far doesn't make him immune to criticism.

Exactly... BEFORE the crabbe trade it was pointed out that harris gives you 90-100% of what crabbe does for like 5% of the cost... this was in response to marks giving crabeb that huge RFA deal. it became even more clear once we made the trade. And as we have seen, you canf ind shooters without giving them 19 million a year (Stauskus).

[Prokorov]

I don't really see the plan with Crabbe if we're trying to get him to expand his game. If we just want him to be our Kyle Korver - mission accomplished. He's at a good percentage on a very high volume of attempts. Not easy to find someone like that. And he looks like he can easily bring his percentage to 40% by the end of the year. He usually heats up around January and gets into a groove.

I don't see why we don't call any post ups / mid-range ISOs for Crabbe. The same spots that RHJ scores from. Crabbe isn't some slow spot up shooter that needs a ton of space to get his shot off. He shoots better than 40% on tightly guarded 3s. Let him attack from 15 feet out where he can either just rise up for a jumper that no one can block or where he can get to the rim in one dribble. At the rim, he'll start drawing fouls or using his length to finish inside. He needs to learn to use his size on smaller guards too.

With Russell out and LeVert coming off the bench, it's the perfect time to see if this guy is more than a 3pt shooter.

He is really bad mid range and at the rim... or at least to this point in his career he has been.

Career he shoots:

39% from 3-10 feet
44% from 10-16 feet
40% from 16 - 22 geet

At those percentages (at least from an analtics perspective) it doesnt make sense for him to ever take a shot thats not a three, considering he shoots just as well from three as he does from 2.

this year he has been abysmal from 10-16 feet(27%) and 16-22 feet (31%).... not that he should stop... he needs to develop something beyond threes. just pointing out its going to be a work in progress. The main issue is he isnt a very good ball handler and isnt good going from dribbling to shooting. catch and shoot he is an assasin, but he needs alot of work ball handling

[Prokorov]

Kenny asked Marks for more shooting and Marks did that.

Could you show me where this was stated please? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, should that be the case, you think trading for a player who gets paid $12m per year more (on a longer contract mind you) than the outgoing player is the suitable solution? Don't you think it's a bit overkill to spend $12m more per year on just a "shooter"? Surely there are cheaper alternatives out there if that was all Kenny requested, I mean Bojan got 2 year $21m, are you telling me we couldn't offer that to him?

We're thinking different. You're trying to figure out what's best for the team me I'm just rooting for it.
You're stuck on his contract it's not $25 million for 6 years jeesh.

yeah... god forbid nets fans want whats best for the team

[Prokorov]

We're thinking different. You're trying to figure out what's best for the team me I'm just rooting for it.
You're stuck on his contract it's not $25 million for 6 years jeesh.

Who said it was?

Either way, does it or does it not affect our future potential moves? Thanks for posting that link btw, and here is the reason for why I was against this move, coming out of Marks' mouth.

“But you don’t want to go and sign free agents, and next thing you know, your payroll is capped out and you’re a 25-win team. So we’re going to have to build this strategically, have patience with it . . . We’re going to have a big-picture view on this looking down the road.”

I did. There's teams with guys like that on their roster. We don't have that problem..do we?

Brooklyn has the 24th highest payroll this year out of 29 teams and it goes down $10 million next year $50 million the next.
It's not like you get some of that money for being a season ticket holder either.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/

it doesnt really go down 50 million... because you have to give extensions/Match RFA contracts on RHJ and Russell and extend the qualifying offer to levert. there goes your 50 million right there.

10 million next year is easily eaten up if you want to bring back any of our pending free agents. Okafor/Stauskus alone would eat that on their options. Let alone if you want harris back.

having the 24th highest payroll doesnt mean much when 19 teams are already over the cap

[MGrand15]

I don't really see the plan with Crabbe if we're trying to get him to expand his game. If we just want him to be our Kyle Korver - mission accomplished. He's at a good percentage on a very high volume of attempts. Not easy to find someone like that. And he looks like he can easily bring his percentage to 40% by the end of the year. He usually heats up around January and gets into a groove.

I don't see why we don't call any post ups / mid-range ISOs for Crabbe. The same spots that RHJ scores from. Crabbe isn't some slow spot up shooter that needs a ton of space to get his shot off. He shoots better than 40% on tightly guarded 3s. Let him attack from 15 feet out where he can either just rise up for a jumper that no one can block or where he can get to the rim in one dribble. At the rim, he'll start drawing fouls or using his length to finish inside. He needs to learn to use his size on smaller guards too.

With Russell out and LeVert coming off the bench, it's the perfect time to see if this guy is more than a 3pt shooter.

He is really bad mid range and at the rim... or at least to this point in his career he has been.

Career he shoots:

39% from 3-10 feet
44% from 10-16 feet
40% from 16 - 22 geet

At those percentages (at least from an analtics perspective) it doesnt make sense for him to ever take a shot thats not a three, considering he shoots just as well from three as he does from 2.

this year he has been abysmal from 10-16 feet(27%) and 16-22 feet (31%).... not that he should stop... he needs to develop something beyond threes. just pointing out its going to be a work in progress. The main issue is he isnt a very good ball handler and isnt good going from dribbling to shooting. catch and shoot he is an assasin, but he needs alot of work ball handling

He hasn't been bad at the rim, he just never gets there. The percentages aren't too important though since when he gets there, it's usually off of a cut or on the break or something where there isn't a lot of traffic.

From 10 to 22 feet, those percentages aren't awful by any means. But it really depends how you get there. If you shoot 42% on contested pullups and they set up your drives to the rim, that's good. If you shoot 42% on spot up midrange shots, that's bad.

I just think we've got to give him a chance to try and become a scorer though. Same spots that Rondae catches it where he can rise up for a jumper or take 1 dribble and get all the way to the rim. His ball handling is never going to be good enough to shake people from the 3pt line and get all the way to the rim like LeVert can do. This is the only way I can think of stretching him out as a player.

He might fail and just turn into a really good shooting 3&D player. But we need to see if he can turn into a Klay Thompson-lite.

[Prokorov]

I don't really see the plan with Crabbe if we're trying to get him to expand his game. If we just want him to be our Kyle Korver - mission accomplished. He's at a good percentage on a very high volume of attempts. Not easy to find someone like that. And he looks like he can easily bring his percentage to 40% by the end of the year. He usually heats up around January and gets into a groove.

I don't see why we don't call any post ups / mid-range ISOs for Crabbe. The same spots that RHJ scores from. Crabbe isn't some slow spot up shooter that needs a ton of space to get his shot off. He shoots better than 40% on tightly guarded 3s. Let him attack from 15 feet out where he can either just rise up for a jumper that no one can block or where he can get to the rim in one dribble. At the rim, he'll start drawing fouls or using his length to finish inside. He needs to learn to use his size on smaller guards too.

With Russell out and LeVert coming off the bench, it's the perfect time to see if this guy is more than a 3pt shooter.

He is really bad mid range and at the rim... or at least to this point in his career he has been.

Career he shoots:

39% from 3-10 feet
44% from 10-16 feet
40% from 16 - 22 geet

At those percentages (at least from an analtics perspective) it doesnt make sense for him to ever take a shot thats not a three, considering he shoots just as well from three as he does from 2.

this year he has been abysmal from 10-16 feet(27%) and 16-22 feet (31%).... not that he should stop... he needs to develop something beyond threes. just pointing out its going to be a work in progress. The main issue is he isnt a very good ball handler and isnt good going from dribbling to shooting. catch and shoot he is an assasin, but he needs alot of work ball handling

He hasn't been bad at the rim, he just never gets there. The percentages aren't too important though since when he gets there, it's usually off of a cut or on the break or something where there isn't a lot of traffic.

From 10 to 22 feet, those percentages aren't awful by any means. But it really depends how you get there. If you shoot 42% on contested pullups and they set up your drives to the rim, that's good. If you shoot 42% on spot up midrange shots, that's bad.

I just think we've got to give him a chance to try and become a scorer though. Same spots that Rondae catches it where he can rise up for a jumper or take 1 dribble and get all the way to the rim. His ball handling is never going to be good enough to shake people from the 3pt line and get all the way to the rim like LeVert can do. This is the only way I can think of stretching him out as a player.

He might fail and just turn into a really good shooting 3&D player. But we need to see if he can turn into a Klay Thompson-lite.

i think he is encouraged to d all of those things, he just doesnt have the ability to do them. in portland they really emphasiezed him being aggressive going to the hoop but he was just too passive. i think it will take time but can happen. he needs to add something to his game that currently isnt there at all. he needs to become a good ball handler

also whie 40-44% from midrange is good, why take that if you can shoot the same from three?

[kamaze]

So we should never criticise Marks for anything he does right?

If you want to criticize him for this move what about Dinwiddie and Joe Harris? Those 2 cancel out the Crabbe contract imo that's what I mean by never satisfied.

Those were both good moves we have praised marks for.

should we only praise his good moves and ignore anytime he makes a poor one?

should we ignore the billy king gerald wallace/celtics trades because he traded plumlee and drafted RHJ with that pick?

You should give him a pass no one's perfect.

[Prokorov]

If you want to criticize him for this move what about Dinwiddie and Joe Harris? Those 2 cancel out the Crabbe contract imo that's what I mean by never satisfied.

Those were both good moves we have praised marks for.

should we only praise his good moves and ignore anytime he makes a poor one?

should we ignore the billy king gerald wallace/celtics trades because he traded plumlee and drafted RHJ with that pick?

You should give him a pass no one's perfect.

should we give billy a king a pass too based on your logic?

is this one of those new millenial things where everyone wins and everyone did a good job!?

[kamaze]

this is such a cheap shot....

People predicted (myself, treiz, nyce) this exact scenario:

-With more volume crabbes shooting percentages will drop
-with less catch and shoot crabbes percentages will drop
-in this offense he wont be more/much more productive then harris or shoot better
-with more volume his numbers will increase but not much and his efficiency will dip.

we got DESTROYED for those predictions and harris got dragged through the mud called a scrub and harris an elite shooter among the best in the game.

now, at least so far it seems like we were on to something and its "never satisfied"

Sorry if im not happy that our highest paid player is a role shooter making 19M who we can get the same thing from for 1.5M out of harris. Hell for the cost of Crabbe we could have Harris, Stauskus and 10+ million of cap room

you know who isnt going to be satisfied? alot of Nets fans when they realize we dont have much cap flexibility and the team you see now is basically what you get while being inthe luxury tax for the next 2-3 years

Get over it bruh he's overpaid and there's nothing you can do about it. Either accept it or complain about something you have no control over.

Sean Marks has done a good job I have faith in him.

Sean Marks overall has one a very solid job.

The Crabbe Trade/contract was horrible and a huge black eye on his resume. This is a Nets forums. were here to discuss stuff. This is the allen crabbe thread. its about him. So if you are too triggered to handle any critcism of marks, you dont have to read it. plain and simple.

The issue with you is, you crap on people when they point things out, offer ZERO insight of your own, then when proven wrong you come in with passive aggressive jabs and insults.

Trading for him isn't a huge black eye we still have cap room. I think you're nit picking to be honest (no insult) This thread should be about his play instead you're counting his money.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/
The Nets are 24th in salaries this year.