A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us)

[Hello Brooklyn]

The Boston trade would have been fine, if not for the pick swaps. Same thing with the Atlanta. King has found a way to circumvent the Steiphen rule by merely including pick swaps every year, virtually guaranteeing we never get a top draft pick.

I don't think we needed to include all of those pick swaps ON TOP of all of the picks we were giving already just to get KG and Pierce. Bad value. Treating picks as completely expandable and throwing them away every chance we have is what makes King a terrible GM.

He has doomed this franchise for the forseeable future. We suck and have no real way of improving.

[jbeachboy]

we have no choice but to overpay in free agency.

[MrDollarBills]

thad young isnt being force fed shots because he is on a team with no offensive options. his offense is coming mostly on hustle/energy type stuff and in transition or in the flow of the offense. his offensive numbers dont have anything to do with being on a bad team, it has to do with him going out and putting in buck williams type efforts every night

i you want to tell me his poor defense is being overlooked because of a bad team, maybe... but overall his numbers are where they are because he is balling out

Young doesn't have many plays run for him, most of his offense comes with catch/reaction attack plays. Which is fine. He's not even in the top 50 in usage yet statistically he's putting up top 10 PF stats

[MrDollarBills]

we have no choice but to overpay in free agency.

That's fine. We have 3 years to kill. Might as well overpay, become a playoff team and sit back and wait for our picks to come back in 2019.

[jbeachboy]

thad young is having a quietly efficient year on offense.

[Prokorov]

we have no choice but to overpay in free agency.

That's fine. We have 3 years to kill. Might as well overpay, become a playoff team and sit back and wait for our picks to come back in 2019.

barring something like cal taking over for king, this has to be the move...

but you overpay for proven guys... we cant afford to overpay on barnes, have him prove to be a role player, miss the playoffs, and have no picks

you need to get the derozans and horfords of the world.

[NyCeEvO]

thad young isnt being force fed shots because he is on a team with no offensive options. his offense is coming mostly on hustle/energy type stuff and in transition or in the flow of the offense. his offensive numbers dont have anything to do with being on a bad team, it has to do with him going out and putting in buck williams type efforts every night

i you want to tell me his poor defense is being overlooked because of a bad team, maybe... but overall his numbers are where they are because he is balling out

This is true. Thad is playing great ball WITHIN his game. He's not forcing anything.

I found it funny reading some comments in other places about how Thad is not playing THAT well because he's taking shots away from Lopez, yet just about all of Thad's points are either hustle points, nice elbow jumpers within the offense, or quick drives to the basket when none of his teammates are moving or generating offense.

What I'm mildly surprised by is that he's actually showcasing versatility. Last season, he was shooting 3s at a high clip and making them. We thought it was just a hot streak but he kept making them. This season he's focused on doing everything from mid-range and in, and he's excelling. I don't know if this is by design or not but it's very good to see a player produce regardless of the team's makeup.

We don't have to find excuses for why Thad isn't playing well like we have to do with some other big time players....cough Lopez cough cough.

[MrDollarBills]

we have no choice but to overpay in free agency.

That's fine. We have 3 years to kill. Might as well overpay, become a playoff team and sit back and wait for our picks to come back in 2019.

barring something like cal taking over for king, this has to be the move...

but you overpay for proven guys... we cant afford to overpay on barnes, have him prove to be a role player, miss the playoffs, and have no picks

you need to get the derozans and horfords of the world.

I'm good with either scenario as long as we get upgrades at positions of need.

Oh yeah, and an upgrade at GM/Coach

[MrDollarBills]

thad young isnt being force fed shots because he is on a team with no offensive options. his offense is coming mostly on hustle/energy type stuff and in transition or in the flow of the offense. his offensive numbers dont have anything to do with being on a bad team, it has to do with him going out and putting in buck williams type efforts every night

i you want to tell me his poor defense is being overlooked because of a bad team, maybe... but overall his numbers are where they are because he is balling out

This is true. Thad is playing great ball WITHIN his game. He's not forcing anything.

I found it funny reading some comments in other places about how Thad is not playing THAT well because he's taking shots away from Lopez, yet just about all of Thad's points are either hustle points, nice elbow jumpers within the offense, or quick drives to the basket when none of his teammates are moving or generating offense.

What I'm mildly surprised by is that he's actually showcasing versatility. Last season, he was shooting 3s at a high clip and making them. We thought it was just a hot streak but he kept making them. This season he's focused on doing everything from mid-range and in, and he's excelling. I don't know if this is by design or not but it's very good to see a player produce regardless of the team's makeup.

We don't have to find excuses for why Thad isn't playing well like we have to do with some other big time players....cough Lopez cough cough.

This is where we have to give Hollins some credit. He has Young focusing on being around the rim instead of the arc and his scoring/boards have gone up. This is the way he should be used during his tenure here with us no matter who is the coach.

[Prokorov]

That's fine. We have 3 years to kill. Might as well overpay, become a playoff team and sit back and wait for our picks to come back in 2019.

barring something like cal taking over for king, this has to be the move...

but you overpay for proven guys... we cant afford to overpay on barnes, have him prove to be a role player, miss the playoffs, and have no picks

you need to get the derozans and horfords of the world.

I'm good with either scenario as long as we get upgrades at positions of need.

Oh yeah, and an upgrade at GM/Coach

anything is an upgrade and every position is basically a position of need.

we could upgrade a ton and still fall well short of the playoffs.

replacing joe with barnes doesnt make us a lock playoff team. especially if barnes flops here. if we are gonna overpay for a 3 year window we need prove #1/2 options like derozan.

barnes will be a disaster, he would be travis outlaw 2.0

[NyCeEvO]

I think you made some good understated points in this post but there are a couple of areas where I disagree.

As painful as this season has been, this was always viewed a throw away year. People getting upset about the losses is understandable but most of these guys arent going to be here next season. Eras in the NBA last 3-5 years because of guaranteed contracts. This is the last year of the DWill/Joe Era of Nets basketball. We have had some success during that time despite this season being a wash. We had a legit shot at the finals during this period and that was with Lopez getting hurt.

Agreed.

King hit the ejection button early last season and started breaking up the old core. Part of the rebuilding process is to blow it up and we had to do things like stretch DWill to do so. I dont see it on here, but a lot of Net fans on the internet are lamenting about cutting DWill because he got off to a good start in Dallas. How soon everyone forgets that we have seen this from him before. He was player of the month in the Eastern Conference just last year in November. Cutting DWill was an essential move for next year in order to maximize roster flexibility. We now have the ability to receive players in sign and trades which is especially important this off-season since most of the top free agents are restricted.

There were two problems I had with stretching D-Will. While both aren't major in the grand scheme of things, they both highlight the same issues that we've been complaining about regarding King. He misses things that seem to be minor details which end up becoming major factors later on.

1) Even though D-Will was nowhere near a max contract player in value, I believed that teams would still find his services valuable at some price. King never checked to see what that price was.

Before D-Will was stretched, we already knew well in advance where he would go if he was stretched. Knowing this information ahead of time was a tell-tale sign that D-Will was still a wanted player but just not at a max contract salary.

King could've taken 2 routes: 1) Orchestrate a multi-player deal where we take back salary that goes into next season or 2) put a set-off option in D-Will's buyout such that whatever amount a team signs him at we pay the difference remaining left on his contract.

With number 1, we could actually received serviceable players back. Yes, their salaries would be on next year's cap but we're going to have 5 dead years of D-Will's contract that it is untradeable.

If he could've made a multi-team trade, who knows what could've happened? Maybe we'd have been able to take one of the Morris twins and have a 2nd or 3rd option on the team that would've made us more competitive this season. Or he could've taken a player on just for this season knowing that he'd trade them before this year's deadline for cap space/TE or packaged with another player like one of the JJs. He didn't do that.

With number 2, the personnel situation would've remained the same but we would've owed D-Will less money over the same years.

It seems like King never exhausts his options to work in our favor. If he gets creative, it's usually to the detriment of the Nets. He's simply not a shrewd GM.

People don't become wealthy by wasting money. They make smart, fiscal decisions that maximize dollars. I love the fact that Proky has been willing to spend money like a boss. Very few owners have put their money where their mouth was in order to win. I almost don't even want to imagine what this team could have looked like if we had a GM who had the same directives as King had but was detailed and shrewd in every move they made. I'm confident that we'd have assets and a backup plan behind another backup plan. It's King's pride, lack of intuition, or a combination of both that have really allowed this team to go south when this situation could've been avoided.

There are 3 ways to rebuild in the NBA: Drafting, Trading or Free Agency. When we made the decision to rebuild last time we committed 2 Eras (6-10 years) to rebuilding through free agency instead of the draft. Even if DWill worked out, we would have still had to decide on if we should have resigned a 32 year old PG going into next season. My point is that we are exactly where we are suppose to be going into next season. The only exception to that is that DWill didnt opt out so we have to carry some of his salary forward. Johnson 's contract is coming off the books, Lopez is still a building block, we have enough cap space to make significant moves in free agency.

One of the things you have to credit Prokorov/King/Razmanov for is they went for it. We should have had the 2nd best player in the NBA, Dwight Howard, a couple of years ago. The Boston trade was a bold move that prioritized winning it all. Our owner didnt let money get in the way of trying to win it all and I respect that. No one can forecast injuries and the last 5 years were ruined by Lopez's foot and DWill's ankle/wrist.

Agreed.

King has made a number of good moves that many of you refuse to give him credit for. King resurected the careers of Gerald Green, Andre Blatche, Alan Anderson and Shawn Livingston. As disappointing as Bogs has been this year, he still grossly outperformed what you expect to get from the 31st pick in a draft. Plumlee was picked 22nd and carried the Nets as a rookie when Lopez was lost for the season. He also retained enough value to get RHJ. RHJ looks like the best Nets draft pick value since we got Lopez. King got Marcus Thornton in a deadline deal. Thornton's 17pt game 7 vs Toronto won us a playoff series. Thad Young has looked like one of the top PF's in the NBA this season and King got him for KG. Shane Larkin looks like a good backup PG this year despite burning out in Dallas and NY. Who knows how good McCullough is or Valuet.

King didn't want Andray Blatche. Avery Johnson had to convince King to bring him on. Avery was the one who did the interview with him and basically begged King to sign him to a deal.

Kidd was the one who contacted Shawn Livingston and impressed upon him the idea that he should play for Brooklyn. King wasn't involved in recruiting Shawn at all.

I'll give you AA and Gerald Green but neither of those players are true difference makers. I think Plumlee was a solid pick but he was what I and others thought he was going to be: a college senior who didn't have much more room to grow.

Out of all of these players, RHJ seems like the one who can grow into being a legit stud. But even with this, I think back to King giving away our top lottery pick in 2011 and basically saying it wasn't worth much and then years later talking about how important it was/is to trade into the late 1st round of the draft. Our pick was our highest pick and he made it seem like it didn't matter while we fought like hell to get late 1st rounders. A GM shouldn't have to be stuck between a rock and a hard place before making sensible decisions.

King has done a great job of getting us back on schedule for this off season's free agency after the moves we made to get a championship. Dont believe the media's spin that the Nets have no chance for the future. Draft picks are extremely overrated in the NBA. The most important thing in the NBA is not having dead money, long term contracts. That light at the end of the tunnel is called July. All it takes to switch the Nets fortunes is one big free agent signing or a mega trade. The important thing is that we are in position for the first time since 2012 to do so.

I wouldn't say that KIng has done a great job getting back on track. We have almost no more assets to give up. He was forced into getting guys on the cheap and 1-year deals because he has no more assets to play with. Smart people don't need to be backed into corners and have all of their money stripped away from them in order to make savvy deals. It's just a part of their nature.

[NyCeEvO]

thad young isnt being force fed shots because he is on a team with no offensive options. his offense is coming mostly on hustle/energy type stuff and in transition or in the flow of the offense. his offensive numbers dont have anything to do with being on a bad team, it has to do with him going out and putting in buck williams type efforts every night

i you want to tell me his poor defense is being overlooked because of a bad team, maybe... but overall his numbers are where they are because he is balling out

This is true. Thad is playing great ball WITHIN his game. He's not forcing anything.

I found it funny reading some comments in other places about how Thad is not playing THAT well because he's taking shots away from Lopez, yet just about all of Thad's points are either hustle points, nice elbow jumpers within the offense, or quick drives to the basket when none of his teammates are moving or generating offense.

What I'm mildly surprised by is that he's actually showcasing versatility. Last season, he was shooting 3s at a high clip and making them. We thought it was just a hot streak but he kept making them. This season he's focused on doing everything from mid-range and in, and he's excelling. I don't know if this is by design or not but it's very good to see a player produce regardless of the team's makeup.

We don't have to find excuses for why Thad isn't playing well like we have to do with some other big time players....cough Lopez cough cough.

This is where we have to give Hollins some credit. He has Young focusing on being around the rim instead of the arc and his scoring/boards have gone up. This is the way he should be used during his tenure here with us no matter who is the coach.

Well, I give more credit to Thad because he's versatile enough to play multiple roles and still get it done with no excuses. Thad has been the one stepping in crunch time in the 4th quarter while Lopez has been folding and making low BBIQ mistakes.

I'd give more credit to Hollins if the team was playing well because that would be a sign that his system is working. Thad is just being who he is: an elite garbage man who does whatever he's called to do.

[NyCeEvO]

are people ok with overpaying derozan or barnes , 3 or 4 years, our wings and guards are so bad

Unless we somehow pull off a trade heist involving Brook or Thad to draft a Top 5-10 rookie...

This is precisely what King should be doing.

Sell high on Brook while the stats look gaudy and get some assets while we can.

[NyCeEvO]

Unless we somehow pull off a trade heist involving Brook or Thad to draft a Top 5-10 rookie. He will have to overpay anyone who isn't a scrub to come here until we turn it around. I'm fine with overpaying DeRozan because that's realistically the only way we can attract any quality point guards in 2017. You can actually sell someone like Westbrook on joining a Top 5 Shooting Guard or perhaps reunite DeRozan with Lowry.

Overpaying Harrison Barnes would be a leap of faith. He would be a terrific compliment to Rondae but he hasn't been in positions to show off an ability to be a go to scorer.



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Maybe Barnes could be this summer's James Harden (unproven go to guy turned superstar)

Difference between Barnes and Harden is that Harden was coming off of the bench and tearing people apart. barnes is still moreso a catch and shoot player who hasn't had chances to show what he can do with a higher usage rate

Harden was ISOing people and destroying people while in OKC. The only thing that really changed was that he was given more minutes to do it as a starter. His efficiency was through the roof in his 6th man role and the Rockets figured that the foundation for a star was already in place. He just needed more minutes to show that he was a legit star.

Barnes can't ISO at all. He's either catching and shooting or slashing to the basket. While those are good skills to have, I don't want to throw max money at a player who hasn't even showed that he can create for himself (and make his teammates better while doing so) on a nightly basis.

After watching DeRozan last night, I'm willing to overpay as long as we can get a PG that can shoot and a stretch 4 to balance out the line up.

I officially endorse maxing out DeRozan.

I want to see if this is truly DeRozan taking the next step or if he's having a temporary period of being elite like Lopez did last year. If he can sustain this over the entire year, it'd make me much more comfortable giving him a max contract. If he can't, we'll know it's fool's gold.

[Prokorov]

at he was given more minutes to do it as a starter. His efficiency was through the roof in his 6th man role and the Rockets figured that the foundation for a star was already in place. He just needed more minutes to show that he was a legit star.

Barnes can't ISO at all. He's either catching and shooting or slashing to the basket. While those are good skills to have, I don't want to throw max money at a player who hasn't even showed that he can create for himself (and make his teammates better while doing so) on a nightly basis.

this is spot on.... harden wasnt some young guy who exploded into a star with a bigger role..... he was already a star with OKC and someone else gave him the keys to their franchise.


harden had a 22 PER and a 66 TS% with the thunder....the guy was already a beast.

Barnes is nowhere near that... both in numbers and skill. barnes isnt a guy who takes over games, and at times his role even diminished with the warriors. he is a role guy, not afocal point of the offense. even in okc when harden was in he was a primary options

I want to see if this is truly DeRozan taking the next step or if he's having a temporary period of being elite like Lopez did last year. If he can sustain this over the entire year, it'd make me much more comfortable giving him a max contract. If he can't, we'll know it's fool's gold.

i cant stand derozans game... but id still max him, because he is going to give you 20 points and get to the FT line 8-10 times and that goes a really long way. he is probably good enough to keep you 8 seed relevant at the very least, and you know you can treadmill with him.

im not sure with barnes we even get much better. we need a #1/#2 option and somone who can create offense consistently. he isnt that guy. derozan is.

[NyCeEvO]

I want to see if this is truly DeRozan taking the next step or if he's having a temporary period of being elite like Lopez did last year. If he can sustain this over the entire year, it'd make me much more comfortable giving him a max contract. If he can't, we'll know it's fool's gold.

i cant stand derozans game... but id still max him, because he is going to give you 20 points and get to the FT line 8-10 times and that goes a really long way. he is probably good enough to keep you 8 seed relevant at the very least, and you know you can treadmill with him.

I don't like DeRozan's game either. I wonder if he has the work ethic to improve his shooting. I wish he could put in one summer where he lives in the gym like Jimmy Butler and comes out with a dependable catch-and-shoot guy.

He needs to become a 36% 3pt shooter on at least 2 3PA for me to be happy. Thus far in his career, he's been a lowsy shooter overall and an atrocious 3pt shooter.

I love his ability to attack the basket and get to the line. I've always said that's what you need from your best players in the playoffs. But he's gotta be able to make shots.

If people believe his shot/technique is fixable and he has the desire/work ethic to fix it, I'd have no problem making him the lead guy. I just wonder if he really wants it. I want guys who want to be great.

[Prokorov]

I want to see if this is truly DeRozan taking the next step or if he's having a temporary period of being elite like Lopez did last year. If he can sustain this over the entire year, it'd make me much more comfortable giving him a max contract. If he can't, we'll know it's fool's gold.

i cant stand derozans game... but id still max him, because he is going to give you 20 points and get to the FT line 8-10 times and that goes a really long way. he is probably good enough to keep you 8 seed relevant at the very least, and you know you can treadmill with him.

I don't like DeRozan's game either. I wonder if he has the work ethic to improve his shooting. I wish he could put in one summer where he lives in the gym like Jimmy Butler and comes out with a dependable catch-and-shoot guy.

He needs to become a 36% 3pt shooter on at least 2 3PA for me to be happy. Thus far in his career, he's been a lowsy shooter overall and an atrocious 3pt shooter.

I love his ability to attack the basket and get to the line. I've always said that's what you need from your best players in the playoffs. But he's gotta be able to make shots.

If people believe his shot/technique is fixable and he has the desire/work ethic to fix it, I'd have no problem making him the lead guy. I just wonder if he really wants it. I want guys who want to be great.

that is spot on all the way around.... but to be honest, if we are at the point where we are looking into the derozans of the world i really dont care if he improves or not... he is good enough as is to get you to the playoffs which is all id care about as we'd be treadmill until 2019-20.

to me its either durant or overpay the derozan types who ensure a 6 seed for the next couple years until we get our picks back

[Mosdefinition]

heres the thing there certain players i dont think the nets can get even if they over pay

derozan is one of them there are a bunch of better teams with cap space next season

thats why over paying and taking a chance on Barnes and clarkson make sense

the team will have its own draft pick in 2019

clarkson and barnes if the flame out can only sign 4 year deals that takes us to 2020 with them and them become expiring contracts who the nest would be able to get rid of

[NyCeEvO]

i cant stand derozans game... but id still max him, because he is going to give you 20 points and get to the FT line 8-10 times and that goes a really long way. he is probably good enough to keep you 8 seed relevant at the very least, and you know you can treadmill with him.

I don't like DeRozan's game either. I wonder if he has the work ethic to improve his shooting. I wish he could put in one summer where he lives in the gym like Jimmy Butler and comes out with a dependable catch-and-shoot guy.

He needs to become a 36% 3pt shooter on at least 2 3PA for me to be happy. Thus far in his career, he's been a lowsy shooter overall and an atrocious 3pt shooter.

I love his ability to attack the basket and get to the line. I've always said that's what you need from your best players in the playoffs. But he's gotta be able to make shots.

If people believe his shot/technique is fixable and he has the desire/work ethic to fix it, I'd have no problem making him the lead guy. I just wonder if he really wants it. I want guys who want to be great.

that is spot on all the way around.... but to be honest, if we are at the point where we are looking into the derozans of the world i really dont care if he improves or not... he is good enough as is to get you to the playoffs which is all id care about as we'd be treadmill until 2019-20.

to me its either durant or overpay the derozan types who ensure a 6 seed for the next couple years until we get our picks back

In the same way it pissed/pisses you off that we signed Thad, it burns me up that our front office won't do deals that set us up for future success.

I know it's a little too late right now but I'm giving clarion calls for JJ's demise for a while. I haven't complained much this season because it's too late. I knew this was coming but no one in management even hinted that they could see it. In fact, they thought the opposite and believed that JJ would have a tremendous season.

Management SHOULD be on the phone looking to sell high on our players who are putting up good numbers but truly aren't playing well (e.g. Jack and Lopez) and buy low on other players who are receiving bad press but we know are better than their current public perception.

If the Nets had a realistic chance at getting DMC (heck, I'd still take D12) for Lopez, you need to do the deal. Screw the continuity crap. Players want to play with players.

Remember when I did that long post on why we should push to trade for Eric Bledsoe in the offseason? Look who blew up and had articles written about him stating that he was a top 5 PG (just before injury). Look here and here for example.

Trade for Bledsoe while his stock is low. This is a bridge year. Everything thing is about next year. He's repairing his meniscus so I'm not worried about decreasing athleticism or unexpected drops in mobility like what happens when the meniscus is removed.

Imagine if the Nets traded for DMC using Lopez as a main piece and then traded for Bledsoe using JJ, Bogs, and anything outside of RHJ to help them tank for the rest of the season? You go from nothing to a team with two standout Kentucky guys (ahem Calipari) and you maneuver to have one max spot to throw at the likes of Durant.

If he doesn't take it, that's ok. DMC, Bledsoe and RHJ would do serious damage by themselves. Brooklyn would definitely go watch them play next year. And then you go out and make the same pitch in 2017 to even more max players.

In 2017, have Calipari talk to Bledsoe and say "We'll definitely give you a max contract but if you're willing to wait to re-sign, let's go make a recruiting pitch to other max players first, get them to sign and then we'll take care of you."


But no, the Nets don't think this way. They don't even try to think about buying low and selling high or about what having certain players on your team will do to generate fan interest.

We all know if this team had DMC instead of Lopez more people from Brooklyn would show up. There's no doubt about it. Give them Bledsoe and DMC and they'd sell out every night. If you add another star player, forget about it.

Instead we're watching Lopez struggle in the 4th quarter on a regular basis while Barclays is heading sharply to the bottom of the league in attendance.

No star player views Lopez as a star and they don't want to play with him. They need to freakin' do something.

[simon24]

Unless we somehow pull off a trade heist involving Brook or Thad to draft a Top 5-10 rookie. He will have to overpay anyone who isn't a scrub to come here until we turn it around. I'm fine with overpaying DeRozan because that's realistically the only way we can attract any quality point guards in 2017. You can actually sell someone like Westbrook on joining a Top 5 Shooting Guard or perhaps reunite DeRozan with Lowry.

Overpaying Harrison Barnes would be a leap of faith. He would be a terrific compliment to Rondae but he hasn't been in positions to show off an ability to be a go to scorer.



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Maybe Barnes could be this summer's James Harden (unproven go to guy turned superstar)

Difference between Barnes and Harden is that Harden was coming off of the bench and tearing people apart. barnes is still moreso a catch and shoot player who hasn't had chances to show what he can do with a higher usage rate

After watching DeRozan last night, I'm willing to overpay as long as we can get a PG that can shoot and a stretch 4 to balance out the line up.

I officially endorse maxing out DeRozan.

Jennings or Clarkson would be good at PG. Nets got Young though.