2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Paradise]

Pope vs Harden - Harden with 6/17 FGA (35%) and 8 Turnovers.

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[kerry kittles]

Not really high on KCP. I just think we should be using our cap space as an asset - assuming Porter is matched. I loved Porter's game + fit, not sold on KCP.

The best young player we've acquired in some time was from taking on Mozgov's salary.

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If the TWolves will pony up that OKC 1st that would be great.

Recent dumps have worked out well.
The sixers went from the 5th pick to the 3rd pick because of the swap in that deal and then from 3rd to 1st because of the pick in that dump.
Detroit acquired Morris in a dump; flipped him for Avery Bradley yesterday

Would rather preserve cap space then spend a significant portion on KCP who doesn't move the needle too much; and I don't love the fit - he's never shot above 35% from 3 in a season.

[steady]

Lin - Russell - KCP gives us 3 guys who can play somewhat interchangeably handling the ball, scoring and defending. The front court is still hurting for someone who can put the ball in the basket, but having LeVert or RHJ start the season as depth off the bench is a good problem.

KCP was pushed into ball handling duties more last year because R Jackson was out ifor about a month at start of season and was never completely right - (Detroits PG options were Ish Smith and Benni Udrih ) and he has some ball handling ability - but the most even his fans say is that he showed flashes of playmaking, he has never been touted for his plsymakingbas for example LeVert has.

KCP is primarily a string defender who shows a lot of energy hustle and quickness. And he is a scorer whose highest percentages come from his pull up jumper, who can create a little for himself and run pnr but who has trouble getting to the rim

Before his shoulder injury in mid-January he was shooting over 40 percent from the three-point lineb but his numbers dipped across the board after that .

"While over the first 39 games he got off to an excellent start and appeared to have taken the jump the Pistons had hoped of him leading up to his big pay day, the second half of the season was disastrous.

Over those first 39 games, KCP was averaging 14.9 points per game and shooting 40.4 percent from three-point range. He injured his shoulder in the first couple minutes of a game against the Golden State Warriors on January 12th, however, missed the next four games and never seemed quite the same after that.

He scored just 12.9 points per game and hit a woeful 29.7 percent from long range for the rest of the season after his return.

Before the injury, the Pistons were -4.3 per 100 possessions when KCP was off the floor and +0.3 when on, but after the injury the numbers flipped drastically. After his return, the Pistons were an impressive +9.9 when he was off, and a staggering -8.6 when KCP was on the floor. To summarize, the Pistons were +4.6 points per 100 better when he was on the floor before his shoulder injury, and after his return they were a barely believable -18.5 points per 100 worse when he played.

In spite of his torrid start to the season, KCP ended up having a worse overall shooting season in 2016-17 than he did in 2015-16, and his defense suffered as well. By the end of the season, his field goal percentage had dropped to 39.9 percent from 2015-16’s 42 percent, and his true shooting was down from 52.1 percent to a mere 51.9 percent. In addition, only Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond had worse on-court defensive ratings than KCP’s 107.7."

[Mkdaman1818]

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[Paradise]

Not really high on KCP. I just think we should be using our cap space as an asset - assuming Porter is matched. I loved Porter's game + fit, not sold on KCP.

The best young player we've acquired in some time was from taking on Mozgov's salary.

Read on Twitter

If the TWolves will pony up that OKC 1st that would be great.

Recent dumps have worked out well.
The sixers went from the 5th pick to the 3rd pick because of the swap in that deal and then from 3rd to 1st because of the pick in that dump.
Detroit acquired Morris in a dump; flipped him for Avery Bradley yesterday

Would rather preserve cap space then spend a significant portion on KCP who doesn't move the needle too much; and I don't love the fit - he's never shot above 35% from 3 in a season.

It's lottery protected and the Thunder will be good next season. That's not moving the needle asset wise either, though.


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[Roy Tarpley]

Lin - Russell - KCP gives us 3 guys who can play somewhat interchangeably handling the ball, scoring and defending. The front court is still hurting for someone who can put the ball in the basket, but having LeVert or RHJ start the season as depth off the bench is a good problem.

KCP was pushed into ball handling duties more last year because R Jackson was out ifor about a month at start of season and was never completely right - (Detroits PG options were Ish Smith and Benni Udrih ) and he has some ball handling ability - but the most even his fans say is that he showed flashes of playmaking, he has never been touted for his plsymakingbas for example LeVert has.

KCP is primarily a string defender who shows a lot of energy hustle and quickness. And he is a scorer whose highest percentages come from his pull up jumper, who can create a little for himself and run pnr but who has trouble finishing at the rim

Before his shoulder injury in mid-January he was shooting over 40 percent from the three-point lineb but his numbers dipped across the board after that .

"While over the first 39 games he got off to an excellent start and appeared to have taken the jump the Pistons had hoped of him leading up to his big pay day, the second half of the season was disastrous.

Over those first 39 games, KCP was averaging 14.9 points per game and shooting 40.4 percent from three-point range. He injured his shoulder in the first couple minutes of a game against the Golden State Warriors on January 12th, however, missed the next four games and never seemed quite the same after that.

He scored just 12.9 points per game and hit a woeful 29.7 percent from long range for the rest of the season after his return.

Before the injury, the Pistons were -4.3 per 100 possessions when KCP was off the floor and +0.3 when on, but after the injury the numbers flipped drastically. After his return, the Pistons were an impressive +9.9 when he was off, and a staggering -8.6 when KCP was on the floor. To summarize, the Pistons were +4.6 points per 100 better when he was on the floor before his shoulder injury, and after his return they were a barely believable -18.5 points per 100 worse when he played.

In spite of his torrid start to the season, KCP ended up having a worse overall shooting season in 2016-17 than he did in 2015-16, and his defense suffered as well. By the end of the season, his field goal percentage had dropped to 39.9 percent from 2015-16’s 42 percent, and his true shooting was down from 52.1 percent to a mere 51.9 percent. In addition, only Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond had worse on-court defensive ratings than KCP’s 107.7."

Thanks for the nuanced analysis. Seems like that shoulder injury really hurt him.

[Paradise]

18 Pts, 4 rebs, 3 Stls vs Cavs game 3.

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[kerry kittles]

Not really high on KCP. I just think we should be using our cap space as an asset - assuming Porter is matched. I loved Porter's game + fit, not sold on KCP.

The best young player we've acquired in some time was from taking on Mozgov's salary.

Read on Twitter

If the TWolves will pony up that OKC 1st that would be great.

Recent dumps have worked out well.
The sixers went from the 5th pick to the 3rd pick because of the swap in that deal and then from 3rd to 1st because of the pick in that dump.
Detroit acquired Morris in a dump; flipped him for Avery Bradley yesterday

Would rather preserve cap space then spend a significant portion on KCP who doesn't move the needle too much; and I don't love the fit - he's never shot above 35% from 3 in a season.

It's lottery protected and the Thunder will be good next season. That's not moving the needle asset wise either, though.


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I'm not saying this example moves the needle. We have $30 million in cap space.. This move only costs $7 million - to acquire a pick in the 20's. If you found 3 other teams that gave you mid 20's pick for $7 million in cap space and you have 4 picks in the mid 20's in the 2018 draft then the needle is moved...

This move is only sacrificing $7 million - the other deals I outlined required teams to absorb much more in salary. We could do this trade and have a little over $20 million left to acquire additional assets in salary dumps.

[Papi_swav]

If we get KCP we will have a logjam at guards and I don't want to let any of our guys go... But the more I watch KCP on defense, the more I want him on this team... He shined against the superstar guards. I understand guys don't like his low shooting percentages but it's ok because he took most of his shots from 3, same reason why Danny Green FG% are low... Even though KCP 3% is a little lower than average, but he takes 3 point shots off the dribble and coming off screens, not like other guys where they just are a spot up shooter and stand in the corner waiting for the ball. KCP is the kind of talent we cannot miss on, give him 17 a year and give him a player option on the last year, maybe.

[Paradise]

Atlanta won't match the Hardaway offer sheet.

We might lose out on KCP now.


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[Ror1997]

Atlanta won't match the Hardaway offer sheet.

We might lose out on KCP now.


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They're tanking though

[FlipFlopShot]

If we can get KCP under 20, Lin/KCP with DAngelo/LeVert off the bench would be a great line up.

[Prokorov]

What's simultaneously concerning but encouraging is he shoots such a poor overall percentage, both overall and from deep, but with such a solid consistent form, great elevation and a lightning quick release.

I'm with Roy Tarpley though, 4 years in a row of inefficiency and bad raw percentages raise my eyebrow.

I'd be excited to get him though, but I'll temper that til I see his contract. Sure we need to take risks, but it will be gross if he somehow gets max or anywhere close to it.

i wouldnt call 35% "poor overall from deep".

That's the one stat that stood out. That's a good %. Now pair that with what the Nets primarily rely on offensively.

I'm sold on the guy. Opinions on the numbers differ but lets just get him in here. I cannot fathom how people watched this team last year with Randy Foye and Sean Kilpatrick playing SG and are holding their noses up at this dude.

He has his issues, his shortcomings on offense... but I mean, not only is he not a poor 3 point short he is an excellent one. there are few guys who take 6 threes a game with 25% coming off the dribble who shoot in the 40% range... and those are the elite of the elite... Curry, Klay, Reddick, Korver, durant.

Same people want to call crabbe an elite shooter while he makes like less the 2 threes a game and its nearly 100% catch and shoot.

[Mkdaman1818]

Atlanta won't match the Hardaway offer sheet.

We might lose out on KCP now.


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After the bazemore contract, I can't see Atlanta overextending themselves again for kcp. I also think he'd find our situation more attractive right now

[Mkdaman1818]

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[Prokorov]

KCP also shot 30.9% 3PT on high volume the year before. That's terrible. Booker shot 32% and 34% in two years. KCP is a career 33% 3PT shooter. Now, I'm sure KCP will improve and with his defense, that makes him better than any other bench G on the Nets, except maybe Dinwiddie.

Booker shot 34% on 85 attempts and 42% on 78 attempts.

KCP shot 35% on 437 attempts

you simply cant compare what booker does shooting ONE uncontested open three every game with the defense daring him to shoot it to KCP taking 6 attempts a game on the ball with defenders closing out on him. thats like not even apples to oranges its apples to like crayons.

Your not sure how he will improve? he is 24 years old! he has been on the one of the worst developmental teams in the league. He takes a ton of low percentage shots. just cutting down on those should raise his efficiency.

saying he is "maybe" not better then dinwiddie is baseless.

But is that worth 4yr/$80? Does KCP, who was unceremoniously dumped by a mediocre Pistons team, deserve 1/5 of the team's salary, and he won't even be a starter his first year? People aren't holding up their noses at KCP 4/60, they holding up their noses at KCP 4/80. If we got Avery Bradley for 4/80, I'd support that.

1) KCP would start. that isnt even a question.

2) What makes him worth it is that he is a 24 year old 3 and D player who is very athletic. Bazemore/Crabbe/THJ got big deals. he is better then all 3.

3) I love avery bradley, but he isnt a free agent. KCP's market it 4/60 - 4/80. obviously you prefer him close to the middle around what THJ got. but at 4/80 he is still worth it. thats his top value, and maybe a slight overpay. but still worth it to get a 24 year old 2 way guy with alot of ceiling left.

If KCP makes a Kemba leap to become a 43/37/82 player with good defense, then that's a different scenario. I just don't like KCP's trajectory over his first 4 years.

I'm forming an exploratory committee to run for President of DON'T SPEND A DAMN DIME

i dont think 43/37/82 is unrealistic, id even call it probably. he was 40/35/83 last year. 2% raise in 3pt%t/FG% shouldnt be tough given his volume will likely go down ro at least more of it will be off the ball and not forced offense.

i realize he didnt improve much in detroit, but to me thats kind of encouraging. they suck at development, their young guys never improve. i think he still has alot of untapped potential.

what encourages me the most is the stuff we can clean up in his game has nothing to do with skill or size/athleticism... its all scheme/habits. we were top 5 in the nBA in shot selection/points added by shot selection. thats going to really help him... and russell.

[ChokeFasncists]

Atlanta won't match the Hardaway offer sheet.

We might lose out on KCP now.

It depends on what the terms are for the Jamal Crawford buyout

[Hello Brooklyn]

I have no interest in OKC's first for a salary dump.

I think maybe we can play LeVert at the 3.

Russell
KCP
Levert
RHJ
Allen

That's a solid young core. And Lin would be a great 6th man.

[Roy Tarpley]

Your not sure how he will improve?

I said, "Now, I'm sure KCP will improve."

Shooting 33% 3pt on 500 attempts would be no bueno for a $20mil player.

[Prokorov]

Lin (30) / Dinwiddie (10) / Whitehead (8)
DLo (30) / KCP (18)
Levert (28) / KCP (12) / Harris (8)
RHJ (26) / Booker (22)
Mozgov (24) / Allen (16) / Hamilton (8)

Skil's pretty much done, right? Any development for Goodwin? Where does Acy get his minutes? Does this mean Booker is done too?

I think itwoul probably be:

Lin (30) | Dinwiddie (10) | Whitehead (8)
Dlo (28) | KCP (10) | FLEX (10)
KCP (18) | Levert (28) | FLEX (2)
RHJ (28) | Booker (12) | Acy(8)
Mozgov 24 | Allen (16) | Hamilton (8)

Those 12 "Flex" minutes will go to guys shuffled in and out of the lineup. Goodwin, Harris, Acy (with RHJ taking some of those wing minutes and acy taking the PF minutes).

I do think Skil is most likely of the rotation. I think Hamilton is probably the most likely to be bumped from the rotation or traded.