Carmelo Anthony Thread (Merging)

[enetric]

Melo is a Nuggest player with a contract so they DO have leverage. And an offer of Murphy and James is gonna get you nothing, get real.

You really need to educate yourself more on the cap and how the NBA is structured. If you did...you wouldnt say so many dopey things.

Melo has leverage because of the expring contract. He has to be salary matched for around 21mil within 25% from all but two NBA teams.

That means...that shoudl Melo say...you made a trade? OK GREAT! Where? OK...no problem.

New team calls Melo's agent...and agent says...NAH he doesnt want to do an extension with you. Team hangs up the phone and says hey Denver...DEAL IS OFF.

Denver's list of teams they can actually get to bite are...whoever Melo will do an extension with....plus any team insane enough to give up that much of their payroll without one.

Since I do not believe there a GM in the land willing to do that...its MELO'S LIST.

He isnt demanding a trade. He is happy to stay in Denver for the year and then see what's going on. He hasnt clsed any doors. He is just refusing to do an extension with Denver now. They are the ones panicing. So what leverage do they have?????

Melo's contract is for $16.7 million or so right now.

Also Melo is worried about losing the max extension that is available now, as compared to what could be available with the new CBA, leaving Denver more leverage than the average team in this case.

You are right about the first part...I should have said matched to his current salary which is 17.149 not 16.7 but....I spoke the second part. The CBA issue is the only thing keeping Melo from saying...I WILL ONLY ACCEPT A TRADE TO THIS ONE TEAM. Denver's leverage with the contract is SLIGHT at best...and it trumped by their own fear for getting NOTHING for him. So it gets a list of 3 or 4 teams from Melo. Only have to beat THOSE offers. As that our offer is MILES ahead of the Bulls and Knicks offers? That should tell you all you need to know about what we should be doing.

[Netaman]

Brook doesn't equal all of the pieces you mentioned but surely you will agree with 2 things.

1- Brook fulfills the the role of "star on a reasonable contract". And if he doesn't, we all have to agree he is very close.

2- Carmelo is a lot closer in importance to the acquisition of KG. He is far more valuable then Ray Allen was at the time. Especially factoring in age.

If you accept those 2 points then the comparison is a lot easier to make. We are the Celtics hoping for a Ray Allen type trade and/or the breakout of one of TWill, Morrow, James, Farmar, Outlaw.

I personally don't believe either of those possibilities to be long shots, especially in the context of the time, which we will have a fair amount of since Lopez is 22 and Melo is 26.

The Celtics got Ray Allen for Jeff Green (#5), Wally (with 2 years on his contract), and Delonte West. I believe we have enough assets to put together that level trade. Especially if the plan is to simply get a stop gap (Parker or Billups?) until Paul or Deron are available. Obviously all of this stuff is conjecture until a) the CBA gets negotiated and b) Lopez gets his $ - point is while it sucks to lose both Favors and Harris, we are going to have assets.

[enetric]

I'll say it...we're outbidding ourselves.

See Rich? This is why you make a far better Mod than I ever would have. It took you 6 words to say what has taken me 60,000 and counting. Sums the primary issue up. 6 Freakin words. I need more just to react.

Economy of words. You are a true master in that regard Rich.

[kmsmith5]

The management is thinking about building for 2012 when they move to Brooklyn. Waiting 4 years to wait until the Heat start to fade isn't really an option. You can't ignore the business and marketing aspect here.

And there it is. NIX PLANNING. DONT PLAN TO BUILD A WINNER. PLAN TO BE A TICKET SELLER.


Do you like what the Knicks have been doing this last decade? Good plan? Whoever is there...GO ALL in until you dont have the flexibility?

IN 2012...two years into Melo's 4 years...capped out...Brook up for an extension...if we arent a contending team..but instead a low seed or a just miss the playoffs team...then what?

Or, take these TWO years in Newark...to build right. Tell you what. What if Favors IS all that?

And in the next two drafts we landed two more top 5 picks? And we had Brook, and Devin and Twill.

You think...we couldnt make a HUGE splash for Brooklyn and be terrifc for a LOOOOOOONG time?

if 4 years from now...two years into Brooklyn we are rebuilding again...then what?

There's just as much risk, if not more, in hoping draft picks pan out. Let's take the guy who already panned out.

[mikhailjordan]

In 2 years if the Nets are a capped out team and suck you move a 28 year old Melo for some good young players and try again... Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about that...

[Nets44]

In 2 years if the Nets are a capped out team and suck you move a 28 year old Melo for some good young players and try again... Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about that...

Boom. Nailed it.

[kmsmith5]

In 2 years if the Nets are a capped out team and suck you move a 28 year old Melo for some good young players and try again... Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about that...

Exactly!

Trading for Melo is like getting $1mil. in exchange for $200,000(Harris) and 2 lottery tickets(Favors, GSW pick)

[enetric]

Dwight Howard, the best defender and rebounder in the league, a center that needs to be double teamed by most teams, is only a top 15-20 player? He's not great at creating his own offense, but he still has a tremendous impact on the game.

That a fanboy problem. Not an NBA problem.

What does this even mean? I can't tell if you are being obtuse or just randomly accusing me being a fanboy.

I wasn't necessarily speaking in favor of this deal. I have heavy reservations about it myself. But if you don't think the business and marketing decisions involved with moving to Brooklyn are related to this deal...well...that's not how the NBA works.

Howard makes 6 shots a game. SIX. How many of those do you think are put back dunks from his awesome rebounding or fast break dunks from his athleticism. He has tremendous impact on defense. But on offense? He isnt making them better...they have more three point shooters than anyone. He isnt a playmaker or a self creator. He shoots 59% from the line. DOUBLE TEAM HIM FROM MOST TEAMS? Yeah...to get him to turn it over which he does...not for fear of his offense. In truth he is a slightly better Mutombo rather than the poor mans Shaq people pretend he is. The only things he has in common with Shaq are big strong guys, same nickname and terrible ft shooting.

The fanboy comment wasnt at you directly. Its a comment on the reality of what we SHOULDNT want to see. We SHOULDNT want to see hey...our team is going to trend to the WORST the nY move has to offer.

Let me ask you. If Favors IS the next Howard...and Brook is the next Pau...and we got three more more lottery picks (our 2011/2012, GSW 2012) and ONE of them is another star...say just ONE of these five...is a STUD. I mean...the next BIG THING. And in two years FOUR of them are still on rook contracts...and Brook is the first to get a vbig deal...and because of it...as we head to Brooklyn we have HUGE cap space...do you think those 4 extra guys plus ONE big signg helps marketing?

I am looking at how to build a team for the better part of the decade. Not watch my franchise follow this Nix debacle of the last decade. What i call carrot on a stick marketing over good basketball decisions.

I wont excuse that...IF I DID...I WOULD BE A CHEESY NIXIE FANBOY...and that was what I was saying,

Every year...WE GOT AMARE! (hey dont look...you gave up Lee, Nate Harrington, 3 lottery picks, a large expring contract....and you STILL suck to get him.

WE got ZACH!!! Do I really have to explain where I am going here? You can fill in the other 9 names and bad contracts and ZERO playoff appearences and the highest payroll in the sport over that decade.

Build it right...see Portland...see....OKC...and marketing wont be a problem. Make decisions year to year FOR marketing...and winning playoff games will be.

[jman3134]

kmsmith,

Whether or not Chris Paul demands a trade is really questionable at best. Recent reports suggest that he is happy in New Orleans.


I believe that the Nets are putting themselves in the best position to win by acquiring Melo. He may be able to lead a team to the playoffs in the East almost single handedly. That is the kind of talent Melo possesses.

The Nets have some quality pieces in place who may be able to stick it out with the team in the longrun. I really like Outlaw as a prime candidate for a breakout season. Damion James should have a surprise season as well.

[enetric]

Melo's leverage isn't as strong as it's being made it out to be because he either needs to sign an extension with some team this year or risk losing much of that 60 million he won't be getting under a new CBA. His threat of becoming a free agent is in many ways a hollow one.

Really? Then why is Denver panicking and Melo is doing talk shows? Why isnt Melo taking his 65mil from Denver the 7 times they offered it to him?

The CBA is an unknown. Could hurt..could be Y2K. But if it wasnt leverage....then why is Denver only talking to the teams on Melo's list? And why do it in September?

[enetric]

Lets be honest. Even with another star.....we arent competing with the Heat. We are about to witness a dynasty. The best chance to combat that...take your time and become LOADED with players on your roster. You can do that if you have great talent on rookie contracts. Not by paying ONE 26 year old 22mil, or 40% of your cap. And if the CBA does radically effect max salaries?

Does anyone realize how relatively screwed we would be in the market? There would be teams that could build much better rosters for much less if THEIR top guy was only able to make 10 or 15mil.

Although I do agree with your build through the draft thing, I do, I want us to suck for the next 5 years and pray to God that we get the next Lebron. But for some reason management wants to rush things right now, so, might as well jump on that boat whilst the seats are still available. I'm actually hoping that this deal falls through and he goes to the Knicks, so we can see them get absolutely demolished by the Heat.

I dont think it would take 5 more years. I think two. And then I think loaded with elite talent on rook contracts....AND you have cap space to go shopping. And if the CBA thing does lower max deals? How much worse will it be for thsoe teams stil paying 22 mil for ONE guy when the best contracts after that are for MUCH less?

Hey...we get Melo...then forget the future. Trade ANYONE to get better now. Why not? We commit that much payroll...we are the Knicks. Its Amare. Its...ONE big move before we can really support it...so the clock begins. can we get ONE more piece so WE can have the pleasure of being that team to get its teeth kicked in by the Heat...lol!

[enetric]

Dwight Howard, the best defender and rebounder in the league, a center that needs to be double teamed by most teams, is only a top 15-20 player? He's not great at creating his own offense, but he still has a tremendous impact on the game.

That a fanboy problem. Not an NBA problem.

What does this even mean? I can't tell if you are being obtuse or just randomly accusing me being a fanboy.

I wasn't necessarily speaking in favor of this deal. I have heavy reservations about it myself. But if you don't think the business and marketing decisions involved with moving to Brooklyn are related to this deal...well...that's not how the NBA works.

He wasn't calling you a fanboy, it's just that only fanboys care about getting small picture rather than the bigger picture.

Yeah what he said! Again...said better than I did. Thank you Treiz...

And Basileus I apologize if you felt insulted. Wasnt my intention...

[enetric]

Not really sure WHY we needed to include Charlotte and Utah in this deal. Couldn't we have sent Murphy and Favors plus the picks to Denver.

How exactly is Kirilenkos expiring that much more valueable than murphy's.

I'd much rather stick with Devin to be honest.. murphy is replaceable.

Has it occurred to anyone that its the NETS putting Devin in over Troy?


I would bet that's why. And I would bet that explains the multiple teams because they prefer the expring contracts and we said no to Troy.

Now...I will keep saying it. Had we NOT signed Troy...those other prospects like Twill or James and Lee who we would still have... with all that cap space to trade? That absolutely keeps Favors here.

[enetric]

You guys are going to start celbrating before the trade is official?

After 100 posts...I have just been reading the celebration posts. As I click page after page without reply...I am glancing at the ticker at the top of the page...that says...

Melo agrees.

The a minute later...

Not a done deal.


then...

Melo signs off.

then...

sources close to Melo say not true.


Still a 4 team deal with a lot of moving parts. This could get done...or be OVER tomorrow.

[SpeedyG]

OK, I CANNOT believe I am saying this, but please, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, AVERY....talk to Mikhail Prokorov and tell him to veto this idiot of a deal by Billly King....and fire his ass on the spot too.

[enetric]

This could be the final trade:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=26en6b3

My favorite part of that is the idiot Hollinger stat below each team. That guy takes ESPN which is already a joke...and just makes it a freeakin circus. I love stat based arguments...but he has reduced things to his onw dillusional reality. That guy must smoke a lot of pot.....

But hey...according to him...we get 7 more wins out of a 22mil per year player...woohoo!!!

[enetric]

The two posters above are correct. Nothing is official just yet. Broussard, whom I would throw a shoe at my television anytime I see him on ESPN, says there are conflicting reports.

Thanks for making me laugh. Its exactly how I feel about all of their Hoops guys. Bucher...I mean Puker is the one I swear if I saw him in public...I would just punch him in the face. Just...POW. Right in the mouth.

[enetric]

Here's a thought -- since Melo would have to sign an extension, is it possible to backload his contract so that we have the most potential cap space during the first couple of years?

We need to make our next move quickly, before it comes time to renegotiate Brook's deal. Everyone pissing or cheering on this (potential) trade has to be aware that there is no way to truly evaluate it as of today. We need to wait a few years to know (i) were we able to make a deal for another stud? (ii) did Favors turn out to be a star, bust, or middle-of-the road player? (iii) did Devin recreate the form of 2008 or continue to miss 40 games a year? etc. etc.

ONly by so much. Raises have maxes per year. Cant pull off hockey in this league.

[SpeedyG]

If this deal goes through....as reported....I don't know how I can follow this team. The only thing that keeps me cheering on this team, is the Nets RealGM friends that I've come to know here...that, and Rod Thorn....and knowing that Rod always has something up his sleeve. That he's not going to make some rash decisions on free-agency or trades. Always a big picture guy.

Kidd was my favorite player, and the reason I cheered for NJ. He's gone...I liked Kenyon, he's gone. I liked RJ, he's gone. Loved Krstic pre-ACL, he's gone. Now, this guy is basically mortgaging our future and pretty much every single legit asset we have for Carmelo Anthony who as good as a scorer in the NBA, has not shown that he can make others around him better.

Maybe, I am over reacting. But god dammit, I do not want to see King drive this franchise to the ground like he did the Sixers.

[Da_Kidd]

Ehhhhh

I'd rather have Anthony Randolph.