Around the NBA, 2015-16 Season Thread

[Paradise]

AND he's on a contract year... one would expect that he'll ball out.... good grief....

The expectation does not always meet reality. Ask Harrison Barnes and Dwight Howard. I could careless about the Knicks, though. This deal increases our chances at landing Conley, Lin or Rondo.

Indiana and NY are out of the running.

[CalamityX12]

AND he's on a contract year... one would expect that he'll ball out.... good grief....

The expectation does not always meet reality. Ask Harrison Barnes and Dwight Howard.

I could careless about the Knicks, though. This deal increases our chances at landing Conley or Rondo.

the reverse can be said too...

this time, Rose will be 2nd fiddle to Melo in terms of offense.... that could change his game for the better.

Barnes isn't the player that Rose was.... nothing can save D12

[Kaiser30]

This deal increases our chances at landing Conley, Lin or Rondo.

[Paradise]

AND he's on a contract year... one would expect that he'll ball out.... good grief....

The expectation does not always meet reality. Ask Harrison Barnes and Dwight Howard.

I could careless about the Knicks, though. This deal increases our chances at landing Conley or Rondo.

the reverse can be said too...

this time, Rose will be 2nd fiddle to Melo in terms of offense.... that could change his game for the better.

Barnes isn't the player that Rose was.... nothing can save D12

Sure. That could happen but the fact that Rose couldn't co-exist with Jimmy Butler in a second fiddle role doesn't bode well for him in a bigger market and more importantly, with Porzingis who is expected to be the future face of the franchise.

[CalamityX12]

The expectation does not always meet reality. Ask Harrison Barnes and Dwight Howard.

I could careless about the Knicks, though. This deal increases our chances at landing Conley or Rondo.

the reverse can be said too...

this time, Rose will be 2nd fiddle to Melo in terms of offense.... that could change his game for the better.

Barnes isn't the player that Rose was.... nothing can save D12

Sure. That could happen but the fact that Rose couldn't co-exist with Jimmy Butler in a second fiddle role doesn't bode well for him in a bigger market and more importantly, with Porzingis who is expected to be the future face of the franchise. Rose is the third wheel.

Butler is homegrown talent that Rose had to watch blossom from the bench due to his missed games.

But Melo is Melo, a solidified all star. A leading scorer. As good as Butler is, and i think very highly of him, in terms of scoring Melo is still tops vs Butler.

Porzingas will enter his 2nd yr and from the outside we'll see how he'll grow. With the benefit of two capable big time players, he shouldn't feel the pressure of carrying the team as much compared to when it was just Melo n Rose.

What NYK needs to do now, IMO, is find that C cuz Porzingas as an every lineup 5 will impede his growth IMO.

[MrDollarBills]

God help Derrick Rose, if he even plays as remotely as bad as he did last year the media is going to be relentless. i feel bad for him, but not too bad since he'll be making 20+ mil to take the abuse that is about to come his way

That being said, Knicks could be pretty decent if they sign Dwight and Rose is halfway decent.

[Prokorov]

so the guy's worthless because he can't carry a horrible roster to 46 wins. ridiculous.

you do this CONSTANTLY. put words in peoples mouth even when they say nothing near that.

Did i say lopez is worthless? absolutely not. and i said specifcally it was NOT lopez fault we were a bad team. All of those things are completely besides the point. The point was, throwing lopez on GS in place of bogut doesnt really make them a better team... for 2 main reasons.

1) bogut is a role player who plays 20 minutes a game. Lopez isnt a role guy. if you have to play lopez 35 minutes a nigth thats 15 minutes your not going with your best small ball/death lineup if your GS. your limiting the massive advantage you get with draymond at the 5.

2) Bogut is a role guy they could on for 3 things and 3 things only. Defense, Rebounding, and high IQ play. those are 3 things lopez does not excel at. so while lopez is better then bogut(so please to come back and say we are calling lopez a worthless scrub) if GS needs to have one of them for 20 minutes in that specific roll they are probably better with bogut

and yes, defensively he isn't great against P and R and any team that we field will have to have players on the wing and point who will have to right through screens but hell, I'd rather have Lopez than not.

I think we all would rather have lopez then not. I dont think anyone said otherwise. I think the narrative was that we would be better off with a modern day big who is mobile, defendends, and can switch on to smalls, and if the opportunity with the right value allowed us to move on from brook it wouldnt be a bad idea.

not sure how you spun that into us calling lopez worthless cause he didnt lead us to 46 wins.

[Prokorov]

If anyone had hopes of getting Teague, there's no chance now...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/745680754043150336[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/745681258211123200[/tweet]
EDIT:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/745683184919126016[/tweet]

love it for the pacers and also the jazz. jazz deseperately needed someone exactly like hill. i assume they'd have taken teague but werent convinced they could get him to resign being in utah. i assume indy is more confident?

decent value for atlanta as well. not sure youre doing much better with teague being able to walk

[Prokorov]

wtf! what kind of package? Rose to NYK is BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

bad knees and everything, if he's remotely at 80% along with Melo AND Porzingas, god damnit...

its a comical move by the knicks. they didnt even get the bulls #14 pick. they gave up the best player in the deal the youngest player in the deal and took on the worst contract in the deal.

all for 1 year PR and fake hope.

This is such a knicks move it hurts. just a retread of steph, baron davis, and steve francis and will end the same way.

[NyCeEvO]

AND he's on a contract year... one would expect that he'll ball out.... good grief....

The expectation does not always meet reality. Ask Harrison Barnes and Dwight Howard.

I could careless about the Knicks, though. This deal increases our chances at landing Conley or Rondo.

the reverse can be said too...

this time, Rose will be 2nd fiddle to Melo in terms of offense.... that could change his game for the better.

Barnes isn't the player that Rose was.... nothing can save D12

Rose isn't re-shaping his entire game. At best, he (and any other player veteran player at this stage of their career) can only adapt their strengths to the needs of the team.

This version of Rose is still kinda quick with north-south movements. The Knicks gain the ability to penetrate with this move.

What you want/hope for is Rose to simply be ok with 1) driving and scoring layups or shooting mid-range jumpers off PnR, 2) dishing the ball off if the lane gets cut off, and 3) shooting open 3s.

He should make 0 attempts at trying to be the Rose of old. He needs to embrace the role of distributing and only scoring when needed to. In essence, Rose should be the regular #3 option or ideally the #4 whenever he's on-court. The Knicks need him to try to stay healthy and limit himself to those aspects of the game. Anything more is just too much and can disrupt the development process of Porzingis.

[Prokorov]

The expectation does not always meet reality. Ask Harrison Barnes and Dwight Howard.

I could careless about the Knicks, though. This deal increases our chances at landing Conley or Rondo.

the reverse can be said too...

this time, Rose will be 2nd fiddle to Melo in terms of offense.... that could change his game for the better.

Barnes isn't the player that Rose was.... nothing can save D12

Sure. That could happen but the fact that Rose couldn't co-exist with Jimmy Butler in a second fiddle role doesn't bode well for him in a bigger market and more importantly, with Porzingis who is expected to be the future face of the franchise.

it doesnt matter what role rose is in. he is no longer a good player. his MVP was years ago. he is not even a shell of that guy. a guy who relied 100% on athleticism is no longer a great athelete and his skillset is horrible for this era. he doesnt shoot it well from mid range or three, he is a horribly ineffeicent scorer, his assist rates are terrible, his defensive metrics are horrid. and he will probably be playing for stats for a contract which doesnt help.

i mean, statistically you can make an argument its downgrading from calderon. he wouldnt have been an upgrade to jarret jack if he came back healthy.

Rose was TERRIBLE. last season.

he was 81st out of 85 point gaurds in RAPM at -4.27. Thats bargani level negative impact.

[Prokorov]

the reverse can be said too...

this time, Rose will be 2nd fiddle to Melo in terms of offense.... that could change his game for the better.

Barnes isn't the player that Rose was.... nothing can save D12

Sure. That could happen but the fact that Rose couldn't co-exist with Jimmy Butler in a second fiddle role doesn't bode well for him in a bigger market and more importantly, with Porzingis who is expected to be the future face of the franchise. Rose is the third wheel.

Butler is homegrown talent that Rose had to watch blossom from the bench due to his missed games.

But Melo is Melo, a solidified all star. A leading scorer. As good as Butler is, and i think very highly of him, in terms of scoring Melo is still tops vs Butler.

Porzingas will enter his 2nd yr and from the outside we'll see how he'll grow. With the benefit of two capable big time players, he shouldn't feel the pressure of carrying the team as much compared to when it was just Melo n Rose.

What NYK needs to do now, IMO, is find that C cuz Porzingas as an every lineup 5 will impede his growth IMO.

what they need is to find a point gaurd. because rose is good to miss 15-20 games and the 60 or so he plays will be at bottom 5 level.


forget center... they need a SG who can score and shoot to make up for rose lack of scoring shooting and defense. they are better with prozingas at the 5 cause they will need offense and shooting.

i mean did anyone watch rose last year? first half of the season you could argue he was the worst starter in the league at any position. second half a bottom tier PG and thats with drastic improvement over his dleague first half. and he finished the last month or so just as bad as he started the season. his last 10 games were abysmal.

rose is all name 0 substance. 13.5 PER, 47 TS%, -4.27 RAPM, 0.96 PPP

you would be hard pressed to find a starter with worse numbers then that... and thats offensively where he is supposed to help you. Im glad the team i hate has a starting point gaurd making 20+ million who generates a 0.96 PPP.

to put it in context, those numbers are significantly worse then any season, or even any half season split deron williams had as a net.

[Mkdaman1818]

Rose to me is a PR move, just like hornacek was. Its a lose-lose IMO... either he sucks and you burned $23mm of your cap space on him, or he's great for a year and then you presumably lock into a declining anchor for multiple years (if you don't, it's an even worse PR move). Given that the Knicks will prob not win a championship anytime soon with Lebron still in the east, this is easily a poor move. Good on Sean Marks for staying away from this crap.

[Prokorov]

Also.... I've seen some people point to rose post all-star numbers as a sign that he came on strong the second half of the year. this is EXTREMELY inaccurate.

Mostly because rose only played 21 games the second "half" of the season. his 45 pre-allstar break games is a more then twice the sample of his 21 post-allstar break games. so its no really a second "half". and if you split his first 33 games with his second 33 games the numbers are nearly identical (his TS and apg and PPP are actually lower second 33 games).

On top of that, Rose's last 8 games were Abysmal. leaving us with just a 13 games stretch of good play right after the all-star break. im not sure im putting faith into a 13 game stretch in a 66 game season where he was putrid for 53 of them.

even still, his post ASG numbers are worse then what dwill gave at the tail end of his time with us:
17 points on 51 TS%, 1.01 PPP, 13.5 PER -4.7 BPM, -4.6 assists.

if thats the high end of what you can hope for you are in trouble.

[Zachbretton]

All in all these two trades do one big thing: they make signing a top PG in Conley easier and the chance of us falling back into Rondo or Lin even higher.

Much fewer starting PG roles open now, and we're now the biggest market.

Let's hope this works out


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[NyCeEvO]

Rose to me is a PR move, just like hornacek was. Its a lose-lose IMO... either he sucks and you burned $23mm of your cap space on him, or he's great for a year and then you presumably lock into a declining anchor for multiple years (if you don't, it's an even worse PR move). Given that the Knicks will prob not win a championship anytime soon with Lebron still in the east, this is easily a poor move. Good on Sean Marks for staying away from this crap.

The Knicks don't lose cap space for him. In fact, by moving Lopez' contract they cleared $16mil off the books for 2017.

While I would say it is a PR move, I don't think that is its main purpose for Phil. I think Phil's primary purpose was/is to retain flexibility for both this offseason and next offseason. He's does that with this move.

The Knicks have also created another distraction/point of interest for the fans to get tied up in. Essentially, Porzingis will have less pressure to develop in Year 2 because the pecking order of critique goes: 1) Melo 2)Phil and now 3) Rose. If Porzingis doesn't perform well, people will blame one of the three and not Porzingis even if they truly had no negative impact on him.

I'd slide in the PR move as being third reason (in order of importance) as to why they did this. According to someone I read on Twitter, Rose still brings in $100mil in merchandise (70% of which is tied to Asia).

I think this move also gets Melo to shut up a bit because I'm sure Melo sees the name "Rose" more than he sees the player. He doesn't understand how poor Rose was last season and his confidence as a star player (which is not a bad thing) will lead him to believe that he can get Rose back to an allstar level while the Knicks return back to being a playoff contender.


I honestly think this has really little to do with expecting Rose to perform and be good. I think it has everything to do with having flexibility in 2016 & 2017, giving KP more time away from the spotlight if he needs/wants it, getting fans in the seats, and making Melo happy. This isn't an "improve your basketball team" right now move.

[Prokorov]

All in all these two trades do one big thing: they make signing a top PG in Conley easier and the chance of us falling back into Rondo or Lin even higher.

Much fewer starting PG roles open now, and we're now the biggest market.

Let's hope this works out


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

im not so sure. It closes the knicks spot at PG but opens one on the bulls. the utah spot i guess is no longer up for grabs but i didnt consider them real contenders for rondo or conley.

that said, the number of teams that need a PG is limited and maybe the bulls fill the position via the draft?

[Papi_swav]

All in all these two trades do one big thing: they make signing a top PG in Conley easier and the chance of us falling back into Rondo or Lin even higher.

Much fewer starting PG roles open now, and we're now the biggest market.

Let's hope this works out


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Tht too but don't forget the bulls need a point guard now too and I think they have space to offer Conley a max. Might be the perfect fit for him there . Who else need a PG now ? Mavs, bucks, us, Bulls, and I think spuRs are going after him too. Typing to be interesting

[NyCeEvO]

love it for the pacers and also the jazz. jazz deseperately needed someone exactly like hill. i assume they'd have taken teague but werent convinced they could get him to resign being in utah. i assume indy is more confident?

decent value for atlanta as well. not sure youre doing much better with teague being able to walk

So it looks like ATL could be doing this solely to be able to offer two max slots and make a run at Durant. They could also have enough for Dwight (homecoming) and have a Millsap/Horford/D12 frontcourt.

Unless the Nets really believe they have a chance at Durant ( ), this could very well be an opportunity where Jarrett Jack's contract becomes a huge deal. I haven't run the calculations myself but I hear they're about $3mil off two max slots.

Marks may be able to get ATL's picks for Jarrett Jack if they really only care about obtaining the cap space needed to offer two max slots.

The Nets could do serious work with 12 & 21.

[Paradise]

Tomorrow is going to be nuts.

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