2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[Vae Victus]

i like the olynk singing but 3/30 seems a bit low for a 26 year old stretch floor who is adequete on D and can put it on the floor. but id take him at 3/45 as well so not really an issue.

I''d only take Gallo at 2/40 if the second year is a team option. otherwise hard pass. would prefer reddick or just be done with kelly and acy

sending Allen to the dleague is a crazy move to me. why are we sending our #1 pick and a guy who needs development down to play veterans on a team where winning doesnt matter?

i mean im fine with him spending some time down there. but he should get 55-65 games at 15 mpg. he needs development and the best way to do that is vs live nba competition in meaningful minutes

I dont think Olynyk has a great market otherwise Ainge would try some S&T shenanigans with him. Trader Danny always wants his assets and if he can finagle something out of a player he's not keeping, he'll do it.

At most i'd go 3/36 for Olynyk, the 3rd yea TO is the most important bit imo.

I feel in a motion offense Gallinari would thrive and his usage would decrease and thus his odds of reinjury. He can be sold that he's coming to be a young team to be a leader and be piling up stats as the team is all set to run and gun and bomb away from 3. I honestly think he's the perfect mid level modern PF skillset and cost wise. Him taking a short term deal if iffy as all hell, but to me if such a deal can be swung it'd benefit all parties greatly.

I just dont get your love afffair with Reddick. You slam Lin for being too old (29) and should be being phased out soon and yet youre all hot to trot in giving a 33 year old a 4 year big ass deal. If the team didnt have DLo, i can sorta see it (the money is my dealbreaker on still saying no), but with the team as is, it needs to spend that money on a big, ideally a SF/PF type who has a modern skillset and can D up both positions, hence why i'm pushing for Gallinari hard.

Ive watched JJ for years, having gone to plenty of Clipper games, him coming here for 20% of the teams cap is just as bad if not worse than giving 25% to Otto Porter. A nice complementary piece and nothing more. Asking JJ to D up hard at 34 when his backcourt mate is DLo and Levert is asking too much for a short not terribly atheletic (by nba standards) guard. You can have as high of bball IQ as you want, but if the body is simply unable, its the same as no defense.

Simply put signing Reddick to his market set value is just short sighted and stupid and with the added penalty of eating development PT from Whitehead, SKil, Harris, Dim, Goodwin, aetcwhoever else they might bring in for a try out.

[GA2016]

I have absolutely no interest in Iggy.

He preforms well in the playoffs but is no longer capable of consistently playing at a high level during the regular season.

He also had back issues and I think a lot of his problems are hidden by the fact that hes on a great team.

I'm not overpaying him to play a "mentor role" in Brooklyn. There are plenty of veterans who can do that that don't cost an arm and a leg.

Agreed. He is too old for the team at this stage.

[Ror1997]

I'm not arguing anymore every argument always ends the same and you never read posts. Not worth it.

Not only did I read your posts, i quoted them item by item and responded in detail.

I cant really do much if you are going to ignore that there is a salary cap in the NBA and the contract you give out effect that. especially when you pay max money for role players or non-allstars.

You also just ignore that while we would still have some cap space after signing porter, that space has a short expiration date since russell/levert/RHJ will need extensions in the next couple years and will drastically eat into that cap room.

You need to project these things out. and anytime you pay someone 25-30% of your cap they HAVE to be a fringe allstar at worst or your going to struggle to compete down the road.

Listen to what Marks is telling these players. Allen was talking about agreeing with Marks on players all growing together and trying to meet the same goal forming a special bond. That's what Marks is trying to do with this team. Look at golden state, they ( when they were coached by Jackson) were a bunch of guys who played like a team and over achieved. That's what marks wants to do here.

Here's another thing. You gave Marks A's and B's on guys like Harris, Skil, and Acy. Those guys are all solid nba role players, who were dleaguers before coming to the nets. Don't you think Marks will be able to continue finding under the radar guys in cheap deals to be role players?

Do you think Marks expanded scouting just to help with the short term draft pick situation? Nope. Nets are gonna have an overseas presence similar to the spurs. Even the kid we took #57 can be a cheap role player down the line. Its the spurs way. Nets can afford to pay their core, pay a RFA, and add cheap yet efficient role players. Its the spurs way. Its why we hired Marks in the first place.

[Prokorov]

[

I dont think Olynyk has a great market otherwise Ainge would try some S&T shenanigans with him. Trader Danny always wants his assets and if he can finagle something out of a player he's not keeping, he'll do it.

At most i'd go 3/36 for Olynyk, the 3rd yea TO is the most important bit imo.

There is a really big market for Olynk. after that top tier of guys he is going to be heavily sough after as a young stretch forward who can play the 4 or the 5, put it on the floor, defend a bit and pass. cant see him getting less then 12-15 million.

I feel in a motion offense Gallinari would thrive and his usage would decrease and thus his odds of reinjury. He can be sold that he's coming to be a young team to be a leader and be piling up stats as the team is all set to run and gun and bomb away from 3. I honestly think he's the perfect mid level modern PF skillset and cost wise. Him taking a short term deal if iffy as all hell, but to me if such a deal can be swung it'd benefit all parties greatly.

I agree on him being a good modern PF fit in our offense. i disagree on the health. playing PF and going against bigs, being asked to rebound, and playing at the NBA's fastest pace to me doesnt help vs. injury. if he agrees to a 1+1 deal for me id be happy with it. otherwise i would not consider it

I just dont get your love afffair with Reddick. You slam Lin for being too old (29) and should be being phased out soon and yet youre all hot to trot in giving a 33 year old a 4 year big ass deal. If the team didnt have DLo, i can sorta see it (the money is my dealbreaker on still saying no), but with the team as is, it needs to spend that money on a big, ideally a SF/PF type who has a modern skillset and can D up both positions, hence why i'm pushing for Gallinari hard.

His age to me isnt a factor because i wouldnt like him for winning id like him for development and evoluton of our offense. i think he would help massively in both areas. and other then guys who would never be moved(klay, curry) he is by far the best floor spacer in the NBA.

Ive watched JJ for years, having gone to plenty of Clipper games, him coming here for 20% of the teams cap is just as bad if not worse than giving 25% to Otto Porter. A nice complementary piece and nothing more. Asking JJ to D up hard at 34 when his backcourt mate is DLo and Levert is asking too much for a short not terribly atheletic (by nba standards) guard. You can have as high of bball IQ as you want, but if the body is simply unable, its the same as no defense.

i dont care if reddick doesnt play defense because its not about winning its about development. and no one is going to space the floor to allow these guys to operate in the offense the way its designed the way reddick will.

Simply put signing Reddick to his market set value is just short sighted and stupid and with the added penalty of eating development PT from Whitehead, SKil, Harris, Dim, Goodwin, aetcwhoever else they might bring in for a try out.

i disagree, to me this is one of the best development moves we can make.

[Prokorov]

I'm not arguing anymore every argument always ends the same and you never read posts. Not worth it.

Not only did I read your posts, i quoted them item by item and responded in detail.

I cant really do much if you are going to ignore that there is a salary cap in the NBA and the contract you give out effect that. especially when you pay max money for role players or non-allstars.

You also just ignore that while we would still have some cap space after signing porter, that space has a short expiration date since russell/levert/RHJ will need extensions in the next couple years and will drastically eat into that cap room.

You need to project these things out. and anytime you pay someone 25-30% of your cap they HAVE to be a fringe allstar at worst or your going to struggle to compete down the road.

Listen to what Marks is telling these players. Allen was talking about agreeing with Marks on players all growing together and trying to meet the same goal forming a special bond. That's what Marks is trying to do with this team. Look at golden state, they ( when they were coached by Jackson) were a bunch of guys who played like a team and over achieved. That's what marks wants to do here.

Here's another thing. You gave Marks A's and B's on guys like Harris, Skil, and Acy. Those guys are all solid nba role players, who were dleaguers before coming to the nets. Don't you think Marks will be able to continue finding under the radar guys in cheap deals to be role players?

Do you think Marks expanded scouting just to help with the short term draft pick situation? Nope. Nets are gonna have an overseas presence similar to the spurs. Even the kid we took #57 can be a cheap role player down the line. Its the spurs way. Nets can afford to pay their core, pay a RFA, and add cheap yet efficient role players. Its the spurs way. Its why we hired Marks in the first place.

harris, skil, acy are great value pick ups. none of them are going to be franchise players or be able to make up for having a team over the cap with nothing but role players and dark horse fringe all-stars.

yes, you can get lucky, find a kawai or Greek freak in the draft late to mid lotto. and then it doesnt matter then your capped out with role guys. but i know the nets... and i know our luck. and im not banking on that

[Prokorov]

Do you think Marks expanded scouting just to help with the short term draft pick situation? Nope. Nets are gonna have an overseas presence similar to the spurs. Even the kid we took #57 can be a cheap role player down the line. Its the spurs way. Nets can afford to pay their core, pay a RFA, and add cheap yet efficient role players. Its the spurs way. Its why we hired Marks in the first place.

The spurs will never and have never given max/near max money to role players. in fact its the opposite. when their high level role guys get close to being paid they trade them (George Hill) or let them go (Barbosa, Diaw).

and yes, if we can find 2 all-stars late in the second round (parker/ginobili) and a superstar in the teens(kawai) then we can overcome bad contracts.

im not willing to bet on that, as much as i respect marks drafts so far

[imanshar]

I would love it if we can get Igoudala. He is the prefect fit for us, I would give him 3 years max with third year as non-guaranteed.

3 years max? perfect fit?

I love him as a mentor but 3 years max for a role player? no freaking way. i dont mind bringing in an older guy if he bring an elite skill (like reddick with shooting) bu 3/90 for iggy?

3rd year is not guaranteed, so basically 2 years max. It is not like there is any good free agents in the market that want to sign with the Nets for now. He can play 2 years here, be a mentor and leader and he might stay as vet min after that for the rest of his career.

[Prokorov]

I would love it if we can get Igoudala. He is the prefect fit for us, I would give him 3 years max with third year as non-guaranteed.

3 years max? perfect fit?

I love him as a mentor but 3 years max for a role player? no freaking way. i dont mind bringing in an older guy if he bring an elite skill (like reddick with shooting) bu 3/90 for iggy?

3rd year is not guaranteed, so basically 2 years max. It is not like there is any good free agents in the market that want to sign with the Nets for now. He can play 2 years here, be a mentor and leader and he might stay as vet min after that for the rest of his career.

i wouldnt take him for 1 year at the max. if you want a veteran leader, then bring in another foye or scola type. if your going to spend money, do it on either a young guy or someone who helps by being an elite shooter

[Keith Van Horn]

But 3.5 for regular KJ is too expensive? Lol.

I just don't understand why you and so many other people are so obsessed with salary. It doesn't impact on court performance. The only people who have to deal with the consequences are Marks and Prok, and both are willing to do so.

How can people say they trust Marks and then all of a sudden not agree with him because of something that doesn't even effect them? You improve the team with a catch, but you don't even have to deal with the catch!

I'm just trying to say these aren't your problems to worry about, so why do they factor into your judgment?

At least if you give KCP 25 mil a year you're getting years 24-28. In an era where players are gonna make 40 mil for their 29-34 years, paying 25M for a players prime years isn't a bad deal.

agreed. these contracts won't be with us forever. We can afford to take big risks on young guys who aren't close to their primes yet. I trust what Marks is doing at this point.

What happens after next year when russell and RHJ need an extension? and the year after when Levert needs an extensions.

90-100 million for a team of Dlo, Levert, RHJ, Porter? we would have our picks back but your looking at a team right at the cap, that probably competes for a low seed and needs the draft to improve but wont have a top pick.

its not doom and gloom but you need to consider that scenario and figure out how you pay those 2 guys with porter here and find a way to add talent to a group that wont likely be able to be more then a low seeded team

I trust Marks is doing his homework and looking ahead. He's not going to recklessly be handing out max deals that will come to bite him in the ass in a few years, especially after the last regime. I'm sure he's looking at building around DLo, Levert, and player X for the upcoming years. And I'm not a cap guy by any means, but since Levert and RHJ were non lotto picks, don't they not qualify for as much money?

[Keith Van Horn]

Just made a pot of coffee.

My body is ready for 12:01.

[Mkdaman1818]

Just made a pot of coffee.

My body is ready for 12:01.

Got the Red Bull on ice, ready for woj and sportscenter. Let's do it!

[Ror1997]

Not only did I read your posts, i quoted them item by item and responded in detail.

I cant really do much if you are going to ignore that there is a salary cap in the NBA and the contract you give out effect that. especially when you pay max money for role players or non-allstars.

You also just ignore that while we would still have some cap space after signing porter, that space has a short expiration date since russell/levert/RHJ will need extensions in the next couple years and will drastically eat into that cap room.

You need to project these things out. and anytime you pay someone 25-30% of your cap they HAVE to be a fringe allstar at worst or your going to struggle to compete down the road.

Listen to what Marks is telling these players. Allen was talking about agreeing with Marks on players all growing together and trying to meet the same goal forming a special bond. That's what Marks is trying to do with this team. Look at golden state, they ( when they were coached by Jackson) were a bunch of guys who played like a team and over achieved. That's what marks wants to do here.

Here's another thing. You gave Marks A's and B's on guys like Harris, Skil, and Acy. Those guys are all solid nba role players, who were dleaguers before coming to the nets. Don't you think Marks will be able to continue finding under the radar guys in cheap deals to be role players?

Do you think Marks expanded scouting just to help with the short term draft pick situation? Nope. Nets are gonna have an overseas presence similar to the spurs. Even the kid we took #57 can be a cheap role player down the line. Its the spurs way. Nets can afford to pay their core, pay a RFA, and add cheap yet efficient role players. Its the spurs way. Its why we hired Marks in the first place.

harris, skil, acy are great value pick ups. none of them are going to be franchise players or be able to make up for having a team over the cap with nothing but role players and dark horse fringe all-stars.

yes, you can get lucky, find a kawai or Greek freak in the draft late to mid lotto. and then it doesnt matter then your capped out with role guys. but i know the nets... and i know our luck. and im not banking on that

Ok, prok. You say you're reading my posts but you're clearly not. I mentioned Skil Harris and Acy as good role players that Marks found. I said he could find similar role players in the future. You responded by saying these guys aren't franchise players and we shouldn't bank on dleaguers being all stars.

[Paradise]

Just made a pot of coffee.

My body is ready for 12:01.

Got the Red Bull on ice, ready for woj and sportscenter. Let's do it!

It feels like Woj turned heel by going to ESPN. I'll tune in regardless since this is definitely going to be a game changing summer for the league.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Ror1997]

Do you think Marks expanded scouting just to help with the short term draft pick situation? Nope. Nets are gonna have an overseas presence similar to the spurs. Even the kid we took #57 can be a cheap role player down the line. Its the spurs way. Nets can afford to pay their core, pay a RFA, and add cheap yet efficient role players. Its the spurs way. Its why we hired Marks in the first place.

The spurs will never and have never given max/near max money to role players. in fact its the opposite. when their high level role guys get close to being paid they trade them (George Hill) or let them go (Barbosa, Diaw).

and yes, if we can find 2 all-stars late in the second round (parker/ginobili) and a superstar in the teens(kawai) then we can overcome bad contracts.

im not willing to bet on that, as much as i respect marks drafts so far

Prok, I'm sorry but you have absolutely no comprehension of restricted free agency. Its impossible to explain to you Marks Philosophy, because you refuse to look at it from any angle other than your own. Youre stuck in like 2009.

[Mkdaman1818]

Just made a pot of coffee.

My body is ready for 12:01.

Got the Red Bull on ice, ready for woj and sportscenter. Let's do it!

It feels like Woj turned heel by going to ESPN. I'll tune in regardless since this is definitely going to be a game changing summer for the league.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah woj definitely joined espn to form a superteam

[Keith Van Horn]

I might break Twitter with the amount of times I've been refreshing.

[Prokorov]

I trust Marks is doing his homework and looking ahead. He's not going to recklessly be handing out max deals that will come to bite him in the ass in a few years, especially after the last regime. I'm sure he's looking at building around DLo, Levert, and player X for the upcoming years. And I'm not a cap guy by any means, but since Levert and RHJ were non lotto picks, don't they not qualify for as much money?

Draft position only effects your rookie contract salary. after that its just service time. so the guy picked #30 and the guy picked #1 would be eligible for the same contract once their rookie deal is up.

And im not sure i trust marks. he already tried to give crabbe and bazemore big money. and im not comfortable with a core of Dlo/Levert/porter for the next 4-5 years without having cap or resources to add legit all-star level talent to get that team consistently to the playoffs.

unless russell becomes a star, that core wont cut it. and if you give porter the max, your not adding much high end talent to that core.

if you think dlo/porter/levert can become allstars then thats a different story.

[Prokorov]

Ok, prok. You say you're reading my posts but you're clearly not. I mentioned Skil Harris and Acy as good role players that Marks found. I said he could find similar role players in the future. You responded by saying these guys aren't franchise players and we shouldn't bank on dleaguers being all stars.

your mentioned those 3 in response to me saying once we extend dlo/levert/rhj we'd be capped out with the, and porter. insinuating that marks could add talent by finding gems in the dleague.


to which my response is... its great to find rotation players in the dleague but they arent going to get a team of role players over the hump.

i credited marks with those finds. but as a GM what really matters is how you use your cap space and picks.

im still waiting for you to comment on what we do when levert/dlo/RHJ cme up for extensions

[Prokorov]

Do you think Marks expanded scouting just to help with the short term draft pick situation? Nope. Nets are gonna have an overseas presence similar to the spurs. Even the kid we took #57 can be a cheap role player down the line. Its the spurs way. Nets can afford to pay their core, pay a RFA, and add cheap yet efficient role players. Its the spurs way. Its why we hired Marks in the first place.

The spurs will never and have never given max/near max money to role players. in fact its the opposite. when their high level role guys get close to being paid they trade them (George Hill) or let them go (Barbosa, Diaw).

and yes, if we can find 2 all-stars late in the second round (parker/ginobili) and a superstar in the teens(kawai) then we can overcome bad contracts.

im not willing to bet on that, as much as i respect marks drafts so far

Prok, I'm sorry but you have absolutely no comprehension of restricted free agency. Its impossible to explain to you Marks Philosophy, because you refuse to look at it from any angle other than your own. Youre stuck in like 2009.

yo
What in the world are you talking about. im responding to your specific posts. you mentioned a spurs like philosihy. i pointed out the spurs never overpaid for role guys or RFA's an even let their own role guys walk or traded them when they were up for contracts.

I 100% understand RFA. ive put in alot of time studying the current CBA and salary cap. i know exactly what we have to spend and what our commitments are (see salary cap thread).

I understand if you give an RFA a value contract their team will match. my point is that doesnt mean you need to drastically overpay role guys eating up 1/4 to 1/3 of your cap.

your talking in circles, and making no sense. ive asked you direct questions about or specific cap and roster situation, which you continually ignore. ill ask again.

Once you max out otto porter, what do you do with Dlo, Levert, and RHJ once they are due for extensions?

[imanshar]

3 years max? perfect fit?

I love him as a mentor but 3 years max for a role player? no freaking way. i dont mind bringing in an older guy if he bring an elite skill (like reddick with shooting) bu 3/90 for iggy?

3rd year is not guaranteed, so basically 2 years max. It is not like there is any good free agents in the market that want to sign with the Nets for now. He can play 2 years here, be a mentor and leader and he might stay as vet min after that for the rest of his career.

i wouldnt take him for 1 year at the max. if you want a veteran leader, then bring in another foye or scola type. if your going to spend money, do it on either a young guy or someone who helps by being an elite shooter

I mean we don't even have to give him max just give him whatever he wants to come here, in my opinion he is a good fit.