Official Caris LeVert Thread

[ChokeFasncists]

One must keep in mind that Thad doesn't necessarily complement BroLo well. Why not get something in return?

[Net Sentence]

Did Khawi have 3 injuries in the same spot from the way he normally runs?

I simple understand that LeVert's normal gait when he runs has led to multiple foot injuries. I dont want a guy who has to learn how to do the basics. It's like teaching a QB like Tebow how to throw differently. This was a huge waste of a pick and of a proven player. If you want to take a chance on someone like this in the second round then fine. But to trade a proven vet for him was beyond foolish.

A few things...

1) I can understand not wanting a guy who has had multiple foot injuries. I think we're all wary of him going down with another foot injury, especially considering Brook's spat with major foot injuries. History would indicate that Levert is more likely to have another injury especially if all conditions and circumstances with his body remain the same. I don't think anyone on here will to defend him as if he's got a clean bill of health and we should no apprehension about him getting injured.

With that said, considering that doctors and experts believe that they have identified the source of a problem and say that it can be fixed permanently should give us more hope and confidence that a repeat of such injuries will be less likely to reoccur in the future.


2) As sports science becomes more popular and more advanced, it's inevitable that at least two things will happen:

a) Players will end up having longer careers/peaks/and primes due to advancements in injury-prevention methods;
b) An increasing number of players who would have been considered injury-prone years ago will be able to stay healthy for longer periods of time or no longer succumb to the injuries that they use to suffer from.

As others have said, the fact that these improvements can happen is great. There is nothing negative about helping people improve.

A guy like Bradley Beal (who you and I both like and supported the idea of obtaining him in the event the Wizards weren't going to re-sign him) is a guy who could very well fall into camp 2 similar to Caris Levert. It will be interesting to see if doctors find that Beal's injuries are largely due to particular body mechanics that if altered would no longer occur.

3) Teaching someone how to run properly so that they avoid injury is not bad, and it certainly shouldn't be considered a negative that they haven't yet "learned" how to do so.

Many star athletes have had to learn how to run properly either in rehab after a major injury or simply because their current mechanics are poor.

Kevin Durant and Paul George both had reconstructive surgery to fix fractures. KD suffered a Jones fracture on on the fifth metatarsal of his right foot early in the 2014-15 season, came back for a while after surgery in October but still had discomfort. He had another operation in February, then came back and still had discomfort. He finally had season-ending surgery in which a bone graft needed to be done. KD worked with Riley Williams, the same guy who did Lopez and now Levert's surgeries.

Like Lopez, KD had to rehab and make sure he wouldn't reinjure his foot. Both Lopez and KD had multiple surgeries on the same foot for the same breaks within a short amount of time. Both had initial fears that their career might be done considering the number of times they had the same injury in such a short amount of time.

Paul George was also operated on by Riley Williams after suffering a compound fracture in his leg. He needed rehab, learn how to run properly again, and be comfortable doing so.

All of these players have either returned to their level of dominance or have exceeded it since their major surgeries and none of them have suffered the same injury again after going to Dr.Williams and be "fixed" by the medical staff there.

The overwhelming majority of people run in a style that feels most comfortable to them. I remember the first time I consulted a specialist for running shoes. They recorded my gait and pointed out the imperfections of my running style. Even though I've never sustained an injury to my legs after years of running and playing tons of sports, I was inform that my running style could be improved such that the chance of future injuries would be further reduced. I bought the appropriate running sneaker that would correct my gait and even though I didn't feel like I changed my style, I'm a much improved runner in every way.

Suggesting that Levert is simply learning the basics is wrong. Most people run incorrectly and it's only those who play sports at a high level or who are very active who need to have their gait fixed in order to keep doing what their doing. Most other people don't even know or think that they are running improperly because such activities aren't a major part of their life or they've never suffered an injury while doing those things. Again, just because you haven't been injured yet doesn't mean that you're doing things correctly.

The Tebow analogy doesn't hold weight in this situation. We're talking about an injury that appears to be permanently fixable, not a skill or trait that one is physically unable to attain.


We can all dislike the trade for the #22 pick. But this thread isn't about trading Thad Young for the #22 pick. It's about the player who was selected at that spot and who had no control over where he was selected.

Let's focus just on Caris Levert the player and not bring in other things that aren't his fault.

So you have had 3 serious foot injuries? Did your injury require surgery and if so was it the same injury? If not then your experience pales in comparison to what a professional athlete is expected to do over 82 games and practices. He has to run on a daily basis from now til the end of April. Im sure you didnt have the same workload he is going to have. Im not saying that to minimalize your experience. Maybe you were a well known, top level athlete for all I know. But if you were I still wouldnt want my team to draft you if you had serious injury concerns.

Injuries are never anyone's fault but it's the most relevant thing about LeVert. Im not going to pretend the 800 pound gorilla in the room doesnt exist. You keep making reference to people who got injured after they were drafted. At that point you cant do anything about it except treat it. That wasnt the case with LeVert. We drafted him in the first round which means he gets a guaranteed contract knowing full well the risk associated with him. That is dumb, especially for a team with little assets to gamble with. We are discussing how to teach him how to run out of necessity. I want my rookie to be focused on things like understanding NBA level offensive and defensive concepts or working on a weakness in his game. LeVert is being taught how to do the most basic thing in basketball instead. The chances of him making an impact this year are little to none. He's going to be so far behind where he needs to be that this season is going to be a wash, a.k.a a wasted pick.

[Net Sentence]

One must keep in mind that Thad doesn't necessarily complement BroLo well. Why not get something in return?

How many games did you see Thad play last year when you were rooting for the Hornets?

You dont know what you are talking about. Thad's opportunist style game made him the best compliment to Brook since we drafted him. Hump was the best before Thad.

[Net Sentence]

None of those names were ever considered a "steal" by any well known professional writer. When has anyone (that was not a fan) called TyShawn, Toko or any second round scrub we drafted to be a potential steal? I'll wait. Plumlee came close and he actually showed he was a better selection than 22.

I don't quite understand the issue with teaching him how to run effectively. He's healthy and cleared to resume activities. He's not crippled. It's biometrics. Whatever method of posture helps to prevent any wear and tear on his lower extremities should be welcomed. It's something the Spurs did with Khawi like MDB just said. You clear don't seem to realize that the "Spurs culture" even includes teaching someone the most simplest thing over with a newer analytical approach. Everyone is going into the gym to re-learn something.

Hey dont get crabby because I easily proved it.

Just because you call chop meat a porterhouse doesnt make it so. Stop with the "Spurs culture" already. We dont have anyone as good as Bruce Bowen let alone future HOF level players like Duncan, Manu, Parker and D Rob. We have a team full of mercs and low round draft picks. The culture is more likely to be toxic then to be like the Spurs.

[Net Sentence]

the idea that him not knowing how to "run properly" ahead of coming to the team is a negative against him is silly. No one learns how to "run properly" unless they are in the hands of a specialist.

Stop nitpicking dude.

Are you serious. We know one thing for a fact

The Way LeVert Normally Runs = The Same Foot Injury

That's not a good thing bro. Not at all.

[Ror1997]

[

Injuries are never anyone's fault but it's the most relevant thing about LeVert. Im not going to pretend the 800 pound gorilla in the room doesnt exist.

Thats because you're too busy pretending the state of the art Medical staff (which includes the doctor who preformed LeVert, and also Brook Lopez most recent foot surgeries) assembled by Satan Sean Marks doesn't exist.

You see, when you continue to deny that Sean Marks is capable of doing anything beneficial to the team, you're essentially blinding youself reality.

So while somebody with an open mind can realize a series a moves can all be connected with a bigger picture in mind, you're refusing to take anything into consideration that doesn't match your agenda.

Was LeVert a risk? Yeah. Were the Nets in a better position to take a risk on LeVert than most other teams? Yeah.

Could a healthy LeVert be more valuable to an organization in a situation like ours than Thad? Yeah.

But what if LeVert is a bust? How can Marks explain not drafting one of the players still available at #22? Its not like Marks is prioritizing scouting, which would allow us to find players not as highly sought after but are still similar to the ones typically available in the late first round.

So the Reward is high, and the Risk isn't as high as you're painting it to be. Sean Marks is setting himself up so he can take risks like these. Sean Marks, dare I say it, might actually know what he's doing. Shocker!

[Net Sentence]

[

Injuries are never anyone's fault but it's the most relevant thing about LeVert. Im not going to pretend the 800 pound gorilla in the room doesnt exist.

Thats because you're too busy pretending the state of the art Medical staff (which includes the doctor who preformed LeVert, and also Brook Lopez most recent foot surgeries) assembled by Satan Sean Marks doesn't exist.

Basketball players win basketball games. More importantly, healthy basketball players. Not some glorified medical staff. The human body hasnt changed since people started playing basketball. This isnt updating software, it's re-branding medical treatment. If you want to believe it go ahead. I prefer to have players with no medical red flags.

You see, when you continue to deny that Sean Marks is capable of doing anything beneficial to the team, you're essentially blinding youself reality.

Marks took a guy with a mid SECOND round grade in the first. LeVert's foot problem is going to be the Nets problem weather we like it or not. The reason he was a second round prospect is because you dont have to guarantee his contract. He also gave Whitehead a guaranteed contract. That is poor management. You are naive to think otherwise. An experienced executive doesnt make these kind of mistakes. An experienced executive gets value for a proven veteran. An experienced executive doesnt give a person with serious medical issues a 1st round guarantee, he waits to take him in the 2nd or doesnt take him at all. An experienced executive doesnt give a 2nd rounder a 1st round contract. It's a litany of poor decisions. The devil is in the details and Marks isnt getting any value out of these moves.

So while somebody with an open mind can realize a series a moves can all be connected with a bigger picture in mind, you're refusing to take anything into consideration that doesn't match your agenda.

Someone can have as open as a mind as they want, when it's the size of a pea it's doesnt really matter. There is no big picture with this team. NONE. We dont have any superstar level talent,young or old. Our young guys are 2 years away from being role players or marginal starters. We have a bunch of mercs who are only on the team because they arent good enough to play elsewhere. Half the team is coming off some kind of serious injury from the previous year. No one has a long term commitment from the team. The big picture is a big steaming pile of you know what with a spoon in it. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that it's chocolate ice cream then go ahead.

Was LeVert a risk? Yeah. Were the Nets in a better position to take a risk on LeVert than most other teams? Yeah.

The Nets are in no position to waste draft picks. this wasnt our 3rd pick in the 1st round like other teams had. If so then yeah take a chance. But when it cost you a proven player on a team friendly contract then you cant wast it on a 50/50 prospect.

Could a healthy LeVert be more valuable to an organization in a situation like ours than Thad? Yeah.

The chances of LeVert being as good as Thad young are slim to none. Thad isnt a super star but he is a very good player.

But what if LeVert is a bust? How can Marks explain not drafting one of the players still available at #22? Its not like Marks is prioritizing scouting, which would allow us to find players not as highly sought after but are still similar to the ones typically available in the late first round.

So the Reward is high, and the Risk isn't as high as you're painting it to be. Sean Marks is setting himself up so he can take risks like these. Sean Marks, dare I say it, might actually know what he's doing. Shocker!

[/quote]

The Risk is much greater then the marginally contributions Levert is going to provide when healthy. Go check the draft thread and show me where everyone was touting his potential. No one wanted this guy. Now everyone is suppose to drink the kool aid like you are to wash down the chocolate ice cream you just ate. No thanks.

[MrDollarBills]

the idea that him not knowing how to "run properly" ahead of coming to the team is a negative against him is silly. No one learns how to "run properly" unless they are in the hands of a specialist.

Stop nitpicking dude.

Are you serious. We know one thing for a fact

The Way LeVert Normally Runs = The Same Foot Injury

That's not a good thing bro. Not at all.

The Nets are going to help him clean up any issues with his style of running to lessen the chances of any more foot injuries. Its a great thing. And it won't prevent him from practicing, it won't prevent him from playing, anything. He is, from all accounts, ready to go for camp and is working out like all of our other young guys. Relax.

Again, the Spurs did the same thing with Kawai Leonard for both running and jumping and it did not prevent him from being a contributor and understanding NBA offenses and defenses. This type of stuff is common place for teams that aren't stuck in the 90s with their methods of sports medicine and training.

Again, I do not like the trade, and I say that in order to justify shipping Thad out LeVert has to show and prove that he's legit. But the stuff you're carrying on about is so trivial its not worth you even getting upset about.

[Ror1997]

I just can't help but laugh anymore. Its ridiculous what you will say out of spite. You can call me stupid as much as you want. But your amazing plan to fix the nets included hiring a guy who couldn't get hired by anybody besides his daddy, and go after quick fixes (what got us in this mess) and chase an unrealistic dream of competing.

I don't mean to toot my own horn, but my open (albeit, pea sized) mind allowed me to understand Marks vision for the team. Since I understood his vision, I was able to correctly predict his free agency behavior. (I'm not the only one either. There's alot of posters who were also able to connect the dots because they understood what Marks was trying to do) Yep, my dumbass did that all by myself. All I did was look at what was right in front of me and connect the dots. Not have a "my way or its wrong" mindset. What a hard task for such a stupid idiot like me, right?

So everything else aside, one thing is clear to me. I have a better understanding of Marks vision than you. We had a long argument over Rondo, which I said was silly from the beginning, and I was right. We had a argument over what type of FA marks was planning on going after, I was right again. And once again, my open mind is allowing me to connect dots and understand the Thad young trade and Caris LeVert drafting, even though I was upset with both of the moves. Now am I saying my explanation for these moves are correct? No. But I am saying that I most definitely have a better chance at being correct. Because all summer long, me and my stupid pea sized mind have been successful in understanding what and why Marks is doing, while you've done nothing but be critical of Marks, and all his moves from the start just because he wasn't your first choice of a GM (that's called not having an open mind)

So excuse me if I come across as an egotistical A-hole, but F it. I'm offended you called me stupid when all summer long I've been right and you've been wrong. You make fun of my open mind, but it has allowed me (and everybody else on here with a similar mindset) to actually understand what Marks is doing. So how is not having an open mind working out for you, besides being wrong and miserable about everything?

[Ror1997]

the idea that him not knowing how to "run properly" ahead of coming to the team is a negative against him is silly. No one learns how to "run properly" unless they are in the hands of a specialist.

Stop nitpicking dude.

Are you serious. We know one thing for a fact

The Way LeVert Normally Runs = The Same Foot Injury

That's not a good thing bro. Not at all.

The Nets are going to help him clean up any issues with his style of running to lessen the chances of any more foot injuries. Its a great thing. And it won't prevent him from practicing, it won't prevent him from playing, anything. He is, from all accounts, ready to go for camp and is working out like all of our other young guys. Relax.

Again, the Spurs did the same thing with Kawai Leonard for both running and jumping and it did not prevent him from being a contributor and understanding NBA offenses and defenses. This type of stuff is common place for teams that aren't stuck in the 90s with their methods of sports medicine and training.

Again, I do not like the trade, and I say that in order to justify shipping Thad out LeVert has to show and prove that he's legit. But the stuff you're carrying on about is so trivial its not worth you even getting upset about.

We have a player who, when healthy, was a lotto talent. Some people said he was potentially a top 5 talent when he's healthy. So if he's running funky, which is directly causing the injury according to NS, but the talent is there, then wouldn't that mean that teaching him to run properly would potentially solve the problem? Didn't the Pacers just (successfully) teach Myles Turner how to run properly?

At this point he's just clearly arguing to not be wrong, like he always does. He's just disagreeing, and being petty because he doesn't want to admit he could be wrong. A constant occurrence that is constantly derailing EVERY thread.

[ChokeFasncists]

One must keep in mind that Thad doesn't necessarily complement BroLo well. Why not get something in return?

How many games did you see Thad play last year when you were rooting for the Hornets?

You dont know what you are talking about. Thad's opportunist style game made him the best compliment to Brook since we drafted him. Hump was the best before Thad.

It isn't hard to figure out.

It's nice to have opportunist scoring but that's not gonna win you a lot of games. He's best as a sixth man type off the bench or 4th/5th best scorer on a starting lineup. It's a pity that KG wasn't a bit younger.

Booker, if he gets his three ball going, could be better cuz he can spread the floor, defend and rebound plus he can do put backs.

Defense and rebounding win games, unfortunately BroLo's weaknesses. His complement is better to be able to do those. It usually makes more sense for an athletic center to play closer to the rim and Thad doesn't necessarily facilitate that.

[Net Sentence]

One must keep in mind that Thad doesn't necessarily complement BroLo well. Why not get something in return?

How many games did you see Thad play last year when you were rooting for the Hornets?

You dont know what you are talking about. Thad's opportunist style game made him the best compliment to Brook since we drafted him. Hump was the best before Thad.

It isn't hard to figure out.

It's nice to have opportunist scoring but that's not gonna win you a lot of games. He's best as a sixth man type off the bench or 4th/5th best scorer on a starting lineup. It's a pity that KG wasn't a bit younger.

Booker, if he gets his three ball going, could be better cuz he can spread the floor, defend and rebound plus he can do put backs.

Defense and rebounding win games, unfortunately BroLo's weaknesses. His complement is better to be able to do those. It usually makes more sense for an athletic center to play closer to the rim and Thad doesn't necessarily facilitate that.

SMH

You really dont know what you are talking about. Booker has made 42 3pt shots in his entire career. Thad has made 253. Booker is not a 3pt shooter. 70% of Booker's shots come in the paint. He shot 13.3% from 10-15 feet and 22.2% from 15 to within 3. He is Reggie Evans level bad as a floor spacer. Stop looking at the handful of 3s he has taken.

Thad is a better player at his position then anyone we brought in. And yes that includes the career backup PG. Saying Thad is a 4th/5th guy on a team is empty words when we didnt bring in anyone who can be better than that.

Then we have fans like Ror bragging about how he sees Marks "vision". That "vision" is the worst team in the NBA. Sorry but if that's what the "vision" is going to be then I dont want to open my eyes. But keep patting yourself on the back for the Nets sucking. Im a bad Nets fan because I want my team to win obviously.

[Ror1997]

Then we have fans like Ror bragging about how he sees Marks "vision". That "vision" is the worst team in the NBA. Sorry but if that's what the "vision" is going to be then I dont want to open my eyes. But keep patting yourself on the back for the Nets sucking. Im a bad Nets fan because I want my team to win obviously.

Its a hell of alot better than what you've proposed. So get off your high horse. Have you ever stopped and thought that maybe if enough people around the league disagree with you, maybe it means you're wrong? Because you keep dismissing everything else, when you should be dismissing your own ideas. You aren't as smart as you think you are. There is a reason everything you say is drastically different from every other opinion posted on here. Hell, even well respected reporters around the League all disagree with you. And there's a reason for it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

But instead, you continue to intentionally not see Marks vision (as you just admitted) and the rest of the board has to suffer because of it. Things would be a lot easier if you just accepted the direction Marks is taking the team instead of creating insane theories, and being ridiculously petty with a selective memory. But instead the board has to deal with BS 15 page arguments because you have to act like a 4 year old.

[ChokeFasncists]

How many games did you see Thad play last year when you were rooting for the Hornets?

You dont know what you are talking about. Thad's opportunist style game made him the best compliment to Brook since we drafted him. Hump was the best before Thad.

It isn't hard to figure out.

It's nice to have opportunist scoring but that's not gonna win you a lot of games. He's best as a sixth man type off the bench or 4th/5th best scorer on a starting lineup. It's a pity that KG wasn't a bit younger.

Booker, if he gets his three ball going, could be better cuz he can spread the floor, defend and rebound plus he can do put backs.

Defense and rebounding win games, unfortunately BroLo's weaknesses. His complement is better to be able to do those. It usually makes more sense for an athletic center to play closer to the rim and Thad doesn't necessarily facilitate that.

Booker has made 42 3pt shots in his entire career. Thad has made 253. Booker is not a 3pt shooter. 70% of Booker's shots come in the paint. He shot 13.3% from 10-15 feet and 22.2% from 15 to within 3. He is Reggie Evans level bad as a floor spacer. Stop looking at the handful of 3s he has taken.

True. However, this is off topic. We are talking about complementing BroLo. Fact is, Thad only shot 23% next to BroLo last season and Booker next season most likely will shoot a higher percentage; at least there's hope.

Thad is a better player at his position then anyone we brought in. And yes that includes the career backup PG. Saying Thad is a 4th/5th guy on a team is empty words when we didnt bring in anyone who can be better than that.

Calling McHale or Manu names doesn't make them bad players. We shall see how they'll do.

It's not empty word because thinking long term winning, this is what you gotta do; delayed gratification. OTOH, did you just evade the main problem of the tandem: D and Reb? Who shakes whose head?

Then we have fans like Ror bragging about how he sees Marks "vision". That "vision" is the worst team in the NBA. Sorry but if that's what the "vision" is going to be then I dont want to open my eyes. But keep patting yourself on the back for the Nets sucking. Im a bad Nets fan because I want my team to win obviously.

Hey, didn't ESPN's projection of the Nets' win increase suddenly? It could increase even more. Let's not believe we can absolutely predict the future.

[hood30]

One must keep in mind that Thad doesn't necessarily complement BroLo well. Why not get something in return?

Well, Booker also doesn't compliment BroLo well..Booker is slightly worst shooter than Thad...Booker is a career 6ppg/5rebound guy and we have no idea how he'll perform when asked to start and try to play 30mpg.

[hood30]

How many games did you see Thad play last year when you were rooting for the Hornets?

You dont know what you are talking about. Thad's opportunist style game made him the best compliment to Brook since we drafted him. Hump was the best before Thad.

It isn't hard to figure out.

It's nice to have opportunist scoring but that's not gonna win you a lot of games. He's best as a sixth man type off the bench or 4th/5th best scorer on a starting lineup. It's a pity that KG wasn't a bit younger.

Booker, if he gets his three ball going, could be better cuz he can spread the floor, defend and rebound plus he can do put backs.

Defense and rebounding win games, unfortunately BroLo's weaknesses. His complement is better to be able to do those. It usually makes more sense for an athletic center to play closer to the rim and Thad doesn't necessarily facilitate that.

SMH

You really dont know what you are talking about. Booker has made 42 3pt shots in his entire career. Thad has made 253. Booker is not a 3pt shooter. 70% of Booker's shots come in the paint. He shot 13.3% from 10-15 feet and 22.2% from 15 to within 3. He is Reggie Evans level bad as a floor spacer. Stop looking at the handful of 3s he has taken.

Thad is a better player at his position then anyone we brought in. And yes that includes the career backup PG. Saying Thad is a 4th/5th guy on a team is empty words when we didnt bring in anyone who can be better than that.

Then we have fans like Ror bragging about how he sees Marks "vision". That "vision" is the worst team in the NBA. Sorry but if that's what the "vision" is going to be then I dont want to open my eyes. But keep patting yourself on the back for the Nets sucking. Im a bad Nets fan because I want my team to win obviously.

Totally agree with you...there's this huge fantasy, specially among Lin fan, that Booker will, all of a sudden, turn himself into a floor spreader. eventhough his career shooting charts shows something very different.

Booker is not even a good jump-shooter from 10 feet out, in which your stats clearly demonstrate..I tried to explain the same thing by showing similar statistics and charts FG attempt...I tried to tell them that Booker comfort zone is within 5 feet from the basket and prove it with his career statistics and charts...It would be much harder for Booker to become a genuine floor spreader.

Guys like Scola and Millsap were at least much better jump shooters than Booker before they added a 3PT shot to their game..It would most likely be much tougher for a guy like Booker who has problem with short jump shot.

[jbeachboy]

levert is lottery level talent, only issue is his foot. its a big risk. nets gambled that levert has higher upside than what you know you can get with thaddeus young, young and lopez were great but its about leverts potential and risk that they took in letting thad go. i think they wanted to upgrade the sg and sf badly and add more shooting. while thad is good at steals, he isnt a great man to man or help defender. thad gives you that hustle and low post scoring but nets wanted to go perimeter shooting and upgrade wings spot.

[Paradise]

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[MrDollarBills]

Oh okay. Windrem made it sound like the kid had a setback or something. I don't have an issue with working him in slowly but i would like to see him play in preseason.

[jbeachboy]

bring him back in december or january, dont rush him and have him get reinjured.