A Tech Guy with a Jumper - Spencer Dinwiddie Thread

[Claud]

38.5 % FG and 32.5 % 3PT FG is not good. Defensively nothing impressive either.

Sometimes when I watch him play I wonder if it's just low BBIQ or if he doesn't want to ruin his assist/TO ratio... I've seen countless plays where he pounds the ball for about 21-22 secs only to kick out to a teammate for a rushed/poor IQ shot. Obviously that's not a TO on him but It should be considering it was his mistake holding the ball for too long. Dlo has the same bad tendency.

Another thing that bothers me is that when we finally have a defensive stop and have numbers to go on the break he always slows down the play even when we have numbers... It happens more than you would think if you pay attention to this specific trend. Kills our fastbreak game which is usually fun when Levert/Harris/Fro and company are running.

To me it looks like he plays scared and with low confidence again like the old Dinwiddie. Not sure what happened to him. He had a very good month or so earlier in the season but has reverted back again. My theory is that he has no chemistry with Dlo but that's for another post.

I like Spencer and think he's an articulate person but facts are facts and they are painfully obvious. He's been ass for a while now. I hope he can snap out of it.

[MGrand15]

Since this is Dinwiddies first year getting consistent minutes, I'm treating him more like a rookie or sophomore. His splits since November haven't been pretty. He had a lot of responsibility before but with the team mostly healthy, he has to step up the efficiency. Assist to turnover ratio does NOT make you a legit starter in this league. PGs are too good.

[Roy Tarpley]

I still like Dinwiddie's potential but he's at risk of being a slightly better Kendall Marshall. He'll still have another full year to demonstrate development.

[steady]

I still like Dinwiddie's potential but he's at risk of being a slightly better Kendall Marshall. He'll still have another full year to demonstrate development.

Nah. Din's already much better than that.

His PER this year is 16.6. K Marshall's PER his best year was 12.4

In addition, Din's WS is 5.0 and his WS/48 is 0.13 this year.
Marshalls numbers for his best year are WS 0.8 and WS/48 0.088.

Those numbers show very different levels of potential.

And while his clutchness has been totally MIA recently, it is for real. I don't have the numbers right now but Spencer's percentages in the last 5 minutes of a close game, are really good. (And remember he won the skills challenge based on his good 3 point shooting as well.)

Don't underestimate Spencer. He's played through all sorts of roster changes this season, and was able to act as a catalyst that made the whole team better for a lot of the season. He has to get better ... but he's shown he has potential to improve.

[Roy Tarpley]

I still like Dinwiddie's potential but he's at risk of being a slightly better Kendall Marshall. He'll still have another full year to demonstrate development.

Nah. Din's already much better than that.

His PER this year is 16.6. K Marshall's PER his best year was 12.4

In addition, Din's WS is 5.0 and his WS/48 is 0.13 this year.
Marshalls numbers for his best year are WS 0.8 and WS/48 0.088.

Those numbers show very different levels of potential.

And while his clutchness has been totally MIA recently, it is for real. I don't have the numbers right now but Spencer's percentages in the last 5 minutes of a close game, are really good. (And remember he won the skills challenge based on his good 3 point shooting as well.)

Don't underestimate Spencer. He's played through all sorts of roster changes this season, and was able to act as a catalyst that made the whole team better for a lot of the season. He has to get better ... but he's shown he has potential to improve.

I'm not underestimating him. Like I said, "I still like Dinwiddie's potential."

[Prokorov]

I still like Dinwiddie's potential but he's at risk of being a slightly better Kendall Marshall. He'll still have another full year to demonstrate development.

Nah. Din's already much better than that.

His PER this year is 16.6. K Marshall's PER his best year was 12.4

In addition, Din's WS is 5.0 and his WS/48 is 0.13 this year.
Marshalls numbers for his best year are WS 0.8 and WS/48 0.088.

Those numbers show very different levels of potential.

And while his clutchness has been totally MIA recently, it is for real. I don't have the numbers right now but Spencer's percentages in the last 5 minutes of a close game, are really good. (And remember he won the skills challenge based on his good 3 point shooting as well.)

Don't underestimate Spencer. He's played through all sorts of roster changes this season, and was able to act as a catalyst that made the whole team better for a lot of the season. He has to get better ... but he's shown he has potential to improve.

I'm not underestimating him. Like I said, "I still like Dinwiddie's potential."

you said he was like kendall marshall... he is already alot better then marshall

[Roy Tarpley]

Nah. Din's already much better than that.

His PER this year is 16.6. K Marshall's PER his best year was 12.4

In addition, Din's WS is 5.0 and his WS/48 is 0.13 this year.
Marshalls numbers for his best year are WS 0.8 and WS/48 0.088.

Those numbers show very different levels of potential.

And while his clutchness has been totally MIA recently, it is for real. I don't have the numbers right now but Spencer's percentages in the last 5 minutes of a close game, are really good. (And remember he won the skills challenge based on his good 3 point shooting as well.)

Don't underestimate Spencer. He's played through all sorts of roster changes this season, and was able to act as a catalyst that made the whole team better for a lot of the season. He has to get better ... but he's shown he has potential to improve.

I'm not underestimating him. Like I said, "I still like Dinwiddie's potential."

you said he was like kendall marshall... he is already alot better then marshall

Actually, what I said was "he's at risk of being a slightly better Kendall Marshall" -- which is different from "he was like Kendall Marshall."

I'd rather be at risk of having syphilis, than actually having syphilis.

[Prokorov]

I'm not underestimating him. Like I said, "I still like Dinwiddie's potential."

you said he was like kendall marshall... he is already alot better then marshall

Actually, what I said was "he's at risk of being a slightly better Kendall Marshall" -- which is different from "he was like Kendall Marshall."

I'd rather be at risk of having syphilis, than actually having syphilis.

right but he is already sizeably better then marshall. he would have to take a step back to be slightly better then marshall.

[steady]

In addition to assists, the other stat that Spencer leads the team is in number of games played. He has played 64 games this season. he has only missed one game all season.

[steady]

Just in case people are forgetting how good Spencer has been for the team...

While his usage has been 20.9% , his PIE has been 11.5%. A player that achieves a PIE of more than 10% is likely to be better than the average player.

Compare to Russell, whose usage has been a very high 30.2% but his PIE (which tracks roughly the percentage of game events) has only been 10.8%

In addition, Spencer's net rating has been -2 while DLos net rating has been -7.3. Spencer's had a more positive impact both on defense and offense than DLo according to their efficiency numbers.

For all his recent shooting woes, Spencer's EFG% is still 47.1. -- compare to DLo who is just slightly higher at 47.6. In addition, Spencer's TS% is actually higher than DLo. 52.8 versus 50.8. Also his FT % is 83.1 % which is second highest on team. Only Crabbe is higher.

Their rebounds/steals/blocks numbers are very close to each other. In terms of scoring, DLo has averaged 15.6 points and Spencer only 13.2 points per game. But Spencer has averaged 6.9 assists per game and DLo has only averaged 5.0 assists per game.

I agree that DLos ceiling is much higher given his raw talent but to me --so far -- Spencer's BBIQ has been higher, his ability to organize and run the team has been better, and most importantly of all his ability to lead the team to wins has been surprisingly better.

And Spencer's done all of this while logging major minutes this year -- playing in all but one game, starting in all but 10 games and almost always logging close to 30 minutes .

Edit - Also while DLo has more natural talent. Spencer has skills too and like Caris he also has a determination and disciplined hard working nature that to an extent you are born with or you're not.

[MrDollarBills]

I think Spencer has hit a wall mentally and physically. he might need a night off.

His lack of aggressiveness as of late is concerning.

[MrDollarBills]

I still like Dinwiddie's potential but he's at risk of being a slightly better Kendall Marshall. He'll still have another full year to demonstrate development.

I wouldn't go that far. But clearly, he is now coming down to earth a bit. He's still a darn good player imo.

[steady]

I know this will be controversial. But I want to put this out there

I think the Nets might need Spencer more than Spencer needs the Nets.

i know we all love DLo and LeVert's potential, I do too. but that is really all it is right now. Potential. Even with Spencer's recent skid, his advanced analytics numbers for the year, if I remember right, are far ahead of both DLo and Caris, and are pretty respectable for any NBA player. Caris is basically a rookie given his shortened season last year. But DLo has had 2 1/2 years of pretty spectacularly high usage, yet is still making some of the same mistakes that got him traded

I really like all three players, and don't want to get into choosing favorites.

But I think Spencer may be getting overlooked a little bit recently.

[steady]

And I don't think the Nets trade Spencer, if this is even in their heads, until they figure out next season whether Lin can play.

[MrDollarBills]

We don't have the luxury to trade Spencer unless we know Lin will be back 100%. and even then, an entire season with LeVert/Russell in the backcourt starting will be a pretty big experiment. We need a reliable 3rd backcourt player in the rotation. Spencer despite his recent struggles is still racking up assists and takes care of the ball.

Until Russell stops getting himself benched in the last 4 minutes of games because he wants to throw a careless pass, you're damn right we need Spencer Dinwiddie.

[TheNetsFan]

I know this will be controversial. But I want to put this out there

I think the Nets might need Spencer more than Spencer needs the Nets.

i know we all love DLo and LeVert's potential, I do too. but that is really all it is right now. Potential. Even with Spencer's recent skid, his advanced analytics numbers for the year, if I remember right, are far ahead of both DLo and Caris, and are pretty respectable for any NBA player. Caris is basically a rookie given his shortened season last year. But DLo has had 2 1/2 years of pretty spectacularly high usage, yet is still making some of the same mistakes that got him traded

I really like all three players, and don't want to get into choosing favorites.

But I think Spencer may be getting overlooked a little bit recently.

I think we should trade him & go for broke. Keep the highest upside players & sink (and land a high pick in the process) or swim with them. I think Dinwiddie is overrated, because he so surpassed expectations & had a really hot stretch. As fans we tend to make snap judgement and get really attached to the underdog that surpasses a low bar & become disenchanted with better players that didn't meet a high expectation bar, event though the latter is the better player. I'd see what kind of pick we could get for him straight-up first, targeting Philly (#18), Washington (#20) and Indiana (#21). I'd also see what kind of player we could get combining him with a larger contract (Carroll, Lin or Crabbe). Minnesota may have to move Wiggins or Teague with the pending Butler & Towns extensions looming. Even we don't find those players to be long-term pieces, they are talent upgrades who could in turn have a higher trade value. For now, we need to adopt the "one red paperclip" philosophy.

[TheNetsFan]

We don't have the luxury to trade Spencer unless we know Lin will be back 100%. and even then, an entire season with LeVert/Russell in the backcourt starting will be a pretty big experiment. We need a reliable 3rd backcourt player in the rotation. Spencer despite his recent struggles is still racking up assists and takes care of the ball.

Until Russell stops getting himself benched in the last 4 minutes of games because he wants to throw a careless pass, you're damn right we need Spencer Dinwiddie.

We could always add Whitehead or a draftee.

[MrDollarBills]

We don't have the luxury to trade Spencer unless we know Lin will be back 100%. and even then, an entire season with LeVert/Russell in the backcourt starting will be a pretty big experiment. We need a reliable 3rd backcourt player in the rotation. Spencer despite his recent struggles is still racking up assists and takes care of the ball.

Until Russell stops getting himself benched in the last 4 minutes of games because he wants to throw a careless pass, you're damn right we need Spencer Dinwiddie.

We could always add Whitehead or a draftee.

We could, but are you confident in Whitehead running point full time in the rotation?

[vincecarter4pres]

I know this will be controversial. But I want to put this out there

I think the Nets might need Spencer more than Spencer needs the Nets.

i know we all love DLo and LeVert's potential, I do too. but that is really all it is right now. Potential. Even with Spencer's recent skid, his advanced analytics numbers for the year, if I remember right, are far ahead of both DLo and Caris, and are pretty respectable for any NBA player. Caris is basically a rookie given his shortened season last year. But DLo has had 2 1/2 years of pretty spectacularly high usage, yet is still making some of the same mistakes that got him traded

I really like all three players, and don't want to get into choosing favorites.

But I think Spencer may be getting overlooked a little bit recently.

I have to disagree. I think Spencer negatively impacts D-Lo and Caris immensely. Dinwiddie is a solid player, but he is not the future and needs the structure of being on a good team and knowing his role and being checked by a star if he gets out of line. He is standing in the way of development and really just finding out what you have in the rest of the guys. Unless he lands a great deal on draft night for him or deals D-Lo, I think it was out and out irresponsible of Marks to turn down the Cleveland offer at the deadline, there, I said it.

I'll easily choose favorites, Caris and D-Lo. And I have nothing against Dinwiddie, he is an actual good player and seems like a cool dude with a passion for the game who takes losses badly. But for this team, he needs to go ASAP, or D-Lo does instead.

[vincecarter4pres]

We don't have the luxury to trade Spencer unless we know Lin will be back 100%. and even then, an entire season with LeVert/Russell in the backcourt starting will be a pretty big experiment. We need a reliable 3rd backcourt player in the rotation. Spencer despite his recent struggles is still racking up assists and takes care of the ball.

Until Russell stops getting himself benched in the last 4 minutes of games because he wants to throw a careless pass, you're damn right we need Spencer Dinwiddie.

You make it sound like we're a good team with serious aspirations lol. You lose Dinwiddie and you sign a one year replacement, or trade for him, you find a way around the loss. And if D-Lo and Caris bomb and this team wins 22 games, oh well, hello top 5 draft pick.

Russell gets benched in part because Kenny is stubborn. I'm not saying there shouldn't be accountability, consequences and teaching moments, but some of the extended benching's are maddening. Like who cares if we win or lose??? Only us handful of fans in the Game Threads and only in the moment! And then we lose these games because Dinwiddie goes hero ball anyway more than half the time! Kenny is a lot like Lawrence Frank in a lot of ways and man oh man was that dude not the right man for the job of head coach!


Marks should have picked up any solid asset he could have for Dinwiddie, but I think he has visions of this early 2000's Pistons team taking over the world for a few years with one sizable trade and I'm starting to hate this idea.